Building Real Confidence and Communication Skills for Gen Z with Nick Batchelder

Tim Newman [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence Podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today’s guest is Nick Batchelder. Nick is on a mission to cultivate a world where less people say, I wish I would have done blank in my 20s. He’s an author, podcaster, and speaker targeting 20 to 35 year olds looking for a peer perspective in the self help genre. If you want to learn more about what your peers are going through and how they are tackling issues like speaking with confidence, this is the perfect episode for you.

Tim Newman [00:00:58]:
Nick, welcome to the show. You are officially the youngest guests we’ve had and you can come. You come with intimate knowledge of what people like me are talking about in. For people in your generation.

Nick Batchelder [00:01:10]:
Tim, thank you for having me. I’m excited. That’s an honor. 21. Yeah. Recently turned 21.

Tim Newman [00:01:17]:
Congratulations. You know, I know that’s a big milestone. You know, you know, I say you’re the youngest and it’s, it’s kind of funny because I view myself as being 12.

Nick Batchelder [00:01:30]:
Okay. I like it.

Tim Newman [00:01:31]:
You know. You know, right before we started, I’d say about an hour ago, you know, my wife is a realtor and she’s getting ready to film some content and she was looking for a catchy phrase about something and I immediately started laughing and she asked what I was laughing at. I told her, and she said, how old are you? Because it was, you know, potty.

Nick Batchelder [00:01:51]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:01:51]:
You know, yeah, it’s, it’s what we do. But, but anyway.

Nick Batchelder [00:01:54]:
Playful spirit.

Tim Newman [00:01:56]:
Exactly, exactly. But, but again, I mean, you’re, you’re in the weeds with this thing on. You know what in what I talk about is, you know, especially from confidence in, in communication, you know, So I also think that, you know, you yourself and I mentioned this to you when we, when we spoke. I think you’re like in the 1% of your generation in what you’re doing. You’re 21 years old, you already have a book, you’ve got a podcast that’s doing really well. You’re doing public speaking, you’re doing some coaching, and that’s why I say you’re in like the 1% now. I think your generation is, and I told you this is probably the smartest and most entrepreneurial, but we’re where I think your generation falls down is in that communication piece. What do you see amongst your peers from that perspective?

Nick Batchelder [00:02:51]:
I agree. I think we have a lot of energy and a lot of passion. And I think ultimately where we fall short is because of this digital age, we’re starting to lose that communication piece. And I would say more so the in person communication piece. One of the biggest things that I see with my peers is it’s never been easier to avoid in person interaction if you wanted to. Right. Like, if you really want to, like, you can stay inside all day. Like, you don’t need to take class.

Nick Batchelder [00:03:18]:
I can take online classes. I can doordash food to my door. Right. I don’t have to. I can meet friends on Xbox. Like, I don’t need to go out to the cafeteria or the bars. And so I think what’s happened is a lot of people are just reliant on their home life and they have all this energy and they get all this content and they see all this stuff come up on their feedback, but they don’t actually get the reps in for like, okay, like, how do I communicate, how do I present myself, how do I feel more confident? And I think it just starts to overwhelm a lot of people.

Tim Newman [00:03:44]:
Yeah. So when you talk about it overwhelming people, what do you mean by that? Because, you know, I think that, you know, we’ve. This isn’t something that, at least from my perspective, I don’t know that that just happened. But where do you think this overwhelm comes from and what does it feel like?

Nick Batchelder [00:04:04]:
I think we have way too many options. Right. There’s a really cool study that shows if you go to buy jam, right, there’s 36 options. Most people don’t buy any jam. If there’s three options, like a third of the people bought jam. And I think that’s what you see with social media and just with the digital age is we can kind of do anything. I could do literally anything. And it’s so cool.

Nick Batchelder [00:04:23]:
And I can see any content I want to do. I can go out and use my time in so many ways. I think it’s just overwhelming of like, wow, like there’s too much to pick from and people kind of shut down a little bit and go, you know what? I’m just going to do what I’m comfortable with. I’m going to do what I know. And a lot of that just depends then on how they grew up. If they grew up playing sports and playing Xbox, they’re just going to continue to do sports and Xbox. If they grew up going out and traveling. They’re probably going to do more traveling.

Nick Batchelder [00:04:50]:
So I think a lot of it now is reliant more so on how you grew up. If.

Tim Newman [00:04:55]:
Because.

Nick Batchelder [00:04:55]:
Because there’s too many options for some people.

Tim Newman [00:04:57]:
Yeah. And we’ll get back to the jam thing here a little bit, because I, I. You referenced that in one of your recent, in one of your recent podcasts.

Nick Batchelder [00:05:06]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:05:07]:
And I definitely 100% agree with you. There’s so many options, so many choices, and, you know, we had that overwhelm and so we like to, we choose nothing. And, you know, I don’t know that’s indicative of just your generation. I think that, you know, that that runs the gamut of everybody. But, you know, specifically with, with your generation, you’re right. You do have so many different, different things that you can do, different ways that you can actually communicate with people. And the hardest one is that interpersonal, is that actually talking to somebody. That’s that actually sitting down, having a coffee with somebody that you don’t know.

Tim Newman [00:05:45]:
You know, you try just trying to get information, you know, so, so what, what do you see would be, how can we, we help people in your generation to kind of get over that, that hump a little bit?

Nick Batchelder [00:05:59]:
You know, it’s really funny that you mentioned being 12 years old, because one of the big things that I’ve been talking about in coaching recently is playfulness and improv. And I think one of the best ways to actually develop confidence and not even be confident, but just to start down this journey is to have more of a mentality of playfulness and more of a mentality of improv. Because what I found is the more that I can improv in the moment, the more flexibility I have, the more confidence I have. So, you know, I’ll give you an example. When I’m public speaking, right, so many people have scripts, and I used to do this all the time where I’d have a script and I go up and I have like, word for word, I know what I’m going to say. But that’s really scary because if I get off my script at all, like, I’m screwed. I’m dead in the water, because I don’t know what’s coming next. And that’s like one of the first public speaking tips I get people is like, stop memorizing.

Nick Batchelder [00:06:49]:
Practice public speaking. And I have an exercise where I hand people a random item, like this glass case, and I have them tell me a story about it, right? And they just have to make up a story for 60 seconds. And I’ve gotten pretty good at that. And what I’ve noticed is the better I get at improv and being able to think on my feet, the more confident I am that I can go into any situation and be okay. Right? Like, okay, I’m going to figure out what to say. I’m going to figure out what to do.

Tim Newman [00:07:14]:
Right, right. And where do you think that that whole idea comes from? From you? Was there a moment in your life that kind of pushed you into this. Into this realm of. Of, let’s just say, personal development? Because, again, at least from my perspective, I don’t think you just woke up, you know, a year ago and something to write a book. And I’m going to start being good at communicating, being a public speaker and doing a podcast. Was there something that kind of drove you down this room?

Nick Batchelder [00:07:47]:
It was a culmination of a lot of little things. I think when I went to college, that was a big part of it because I was on my own for the first time. And it kind of felt like, you know, kind of turning a new leaf, new chapter of my life. And I was like, okay, like, I want to start this chapter different. And I think it was a combination of, one, I was like, all right, I have a fresh start. Two, there’s a lot of holes that I want to fill. I think I had really good awareness. You know, I think I’ve always had good awareness.

Nick Batchelder [00:08:14]:
And I think when I got to college, I was very aware of what I was lacking. Like, I did not have good, you know, communication skills. I wasn’t very confident. I wasn’t good at reading. I wasn’t really trying to develop myself. And I think I had just had enough of that. And I was like, all right, I’m kind of over it. And I say, third, I just had a lot of good role models.

Nick Batchelder [00:08:33]:
I have a lot of good role models in my family and my parents, friends that I’ve got to grow up around and see them develop. And I’d say that combination of those three kind of came together right when I got to college and was a perfect little storm.

Tim Newman [00:08:48]:
So, of your peers, how many of them do you think have that? And I’m glad you brought up the whole idea of awareness, because awareness takes on a number of different shapes and sizes and. And scenarios. How many. How many people in your. In your friend group, in your age group and your. In your peer group do you. Do you think notice or develop that awareness or have developed that awareness?

Nick Batchelder [00:09:20]:
I think it’s different because I’d say there’s two, like, I would say more than you think have the awareness, just not that many actually act on it.

Tim Newman [00:09:28]:
Okay.

Nick Batchelder [00:09:28]:
I would say, you know, I would say probably anywhere from half to two thirds would be my guess of people who have that awareness of, you know, they need to develop or what they’re missing or what they could get better at. And I say the biggest difference is probably only like 20% to 30% are acting on it. Right. Or actively going, okay, like I want to change, or I see this and I feel motivated enough to change.

Tim Newman [00:09:52]:
Right.

Nick Batchelder [00:09:53]:
And that can be different. Sometimes something bad enough happens and it motivates you to change. Sometimes you just have a lot of really good people around you that are crushing it, and you’re going, well, if they’re doing it, I want to do it right. And it depends on the individual circumstances. But I would say more than you think are aware of it and just not that many are actively acting on it.

Tim Newman [00:10:12]:
So what are some of the reasons that they’re not acting on it? Does it run the gamut of they don’t know what to do, they don’t know what, they don’t know the steps, they don’t know who to go to. What are some of the. The. Some of the reasoning behind that?

Nick Batchelder [00:10:25]:
I think it’s just hard. And I think we’re just innately lazy creatures like Spire being like, we don’t want to do things right. We’re going to take the path of least resistance. One of the endeavors I went on for a while was career development help for college students.

Tim Newman [00:10:40]:
Okay.

Nick Batchelder [00:10:40]:
I was having a really hard time actually getting people to engage with me outside of the presentations. I kind of show up, I’d give the presentation, I’d be like, hey, if you want more help, reach out to me. I’m here. And no one would reach out. And I was like, why is this? And it’s one of those things where it’s like, there’s so many resources out there. For example, with professional development, the school offers resources. I was being a resource, and people weren’t reaching out. And it was ultimately because one, it’s just hard and it takes effort, and two, it’s just scary for some people.

Nick Batchelder [00:11:09]:
And so I would say those are the two biggest things that’s like, it’s either just too hard and they don’t have enough umph or motivation or accountability to get there, and two, they’re just maybe scared of it.

Tim Newman [00:11:21]:
Yeah, that whole idea of being scared of it for whatever reason, right. I mean, it could be any number of reasons why they’re fearful. Right. It could be they don’t look stupid, they don’t want to sound stupid, they don’t, they don’t, they don’t want to look incompetent. You know, they don’t know, they don’t know what they want to do. They don’t have direction. I mean, it could be any number of different things. Right.

Tim Newman [00:11:48]:
And, and I, I, I get that’s, that, that’s, that’s a, a really big hurdle and a hump. And, and I would say that, you know, from my perspective, that goes for every generation. You know, I, I think that there are, you know, depending on where you are in life, you have those, you have those hurdles, you have those, those barriers to success that I think that we, we, we put up ourselves. Right. Because nobody is telling you that you can’t do something or, or if they are, you’re not listening to it. Right. You know, when you don’t do something, it’s because you’re telling yourself, you, that you can’t do it or you don’t want to do it or what have you. And you know, that, that whole idea of the imposter syndrome with that internal self talk, I, I think is, it’s, it’s more us than society or outside people telling us that we can’t do something or you shouldn’t do this or you shouldn’t do that.

Nick Batchelder [00:12:49]:
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think one of the other factors kind of touching on it’s easier to avoid people than ever is I think my generation has just been tested less. Right. Like, we’re all, we’re not, we weren’t like, as kids, like, sent out onto the street to play and go figure things out and be all independent. Right. I think that’s part of it too, of like, we just had less experiences where we’ve had to put ourselves out there and face fearful things for a lot of people.

Tim Newman [00:13:13]:
Yeah.

Nick Batchelder [00:13:14]:
And I think that’s starting to catch up to you when you get older. Of like, all right, now’s the time you don’t have anyone to look after you. Like, you have to go do the scary thing whether you want to or not. And I think just takes a long, it takes longer for some people because maybe they didn’t have that experience growing up.

Tim Newman [00:13:28]:
Yeah, you’re so right. And you know, when, when you look at the differences in generations, I mean, I didn’t talk about your generation, my generation, because it’s, it’s, it’s A. That’s a huge difference. Right. Because we. We were the generation that we’re told to. To go away, to go outside and play and better be. Just come back when it gets, you know, when the street lights come on and I don’t really care what happens in between there.

Tim Newman [00:13:51]:
Just don’t get arrested. We get hurt. And, you know, and now, you know, young people today, they’re so structured. They’re never not supervised by. By somebody. Right. Whether it’s a teacher, whether it’s a parent, whether it’s a babysitter, what. Whatever it is, they’re supervised and very, very structured.

Tim Newman [00:14:12]:
There’s no just free playtime either.

Nick Batchelder [00:14:18]:
Yeah, no, I completely agree. I think the most freedom I had growing up was I rode my bike to school for a couple years. Right. I think we were like, literally a minute from school. Right. Like, that experience. That experience was great and I loved it. Yeah.

Nick Batchelder [00:14:32]:
That’s just with the times are kind of going away.

Tim Newman [00:14:36]:
Yeah. And, you know, for, you know, for many reasons, you know, it’s. I mean, it’s. I’m not saying that it’s. It’s all bad that it. That things are like that, but there are consequences for everything. Right. Both good and bad.

Tim Newman [00:14:49]:
It doesn’t matter what we choose or what we do, what we don’t do. There’s both good and bad consequences to that. How have your peers reacted to you in things you’re doing and in your success? Because, again, they’ve got to see you and say, wow, Nick is killing it.

Nick Batchelder [00:15:10]:
Yeah. I would say 90% of it has been very, very nice feedback. Yeah, everyone’s. Everyone’s very kind, especially when they. When they hear about, like, oh, like, you revoke your 21. Like, that’s very. I get a lot of positive feedback like that, and I do really appreciate it. And that was one of the biggest fears, too, of.

Nick Batchelder [00:15:29]:
Of writing something like that and putting that out to the world of, like, wow, like, one. Like, everyone’s going to go, okay, how is this going to be received? But I think I thought about it a little longer. Just because I’m in college, I’m in this kind of bubble where everyone I know is going to know about it, and everyone’s attached in so many more ways than they would be when I’m out in the real world. And so I was like, all right, if I do this, everyone’s going to know about it. Everything that I write in here is public knowledge now. That was really scary. But thankfully, everyone. I’d say 90% of feedback, I get is great and 10% is hate stuff that I could care less about and that I don’t even read.

Nick Batchelder [00:16:05]:
Right.

Tim Newman [00:16:06]:
Yeah, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of funny in a way. You know, I, I look at things like this that, you know, when you, when you look at feedback like that, you know, you take the really good stuff, the outlier good stuff, and the bad stuff and you throw that away because it’s either these people really love you and they’re going to say great things about you. It doesn’t matter what you do. Right. I mean, you could what doesn’t really matter and it’s great. I’m not discounting that at all. But in terms of, in terms of personal growth, sometimes that’s not very helpful. Right.

Tim Newman [00:16:43]:
And then you take the other side. That’s bad. It doesn’t matter what you say or do, and the comments are just not helpful at all. And then if you focus on, you know, those things are in between, that’s where I think you’re going to get the best feedback to be able to go and improve on whatever it is that you’re doing. Either. Wow, keep doing this because this seems to be working. Or maybe work on this over here, make some of these tweaks and that’s, that’s how we’re going to get better.

Nick Batchelder [00:17:12]:
Yeah, no, I love that you said that. And that’s actually something I use for, like, my physical appearance sometimes with confidence is. That’s one of like, the biggest things, especially with young people and that I deal with all the time. Like, okay, like, how do I look? Like, I want to, like, look good in the morning. Or sometimes I’m like, ah, I don’t feel like I look great. And I, I genuinely tell myself I’ll be like, on days where I feel like I look great, I’m like, hey, like, you, you don’t look quite as good as you think. And on days when I look bad, I’m like, hey, you don’t look quite as bad as you think. Like, it’s always somewhere in the middle.

Nick Batchelder [00:17:36]:
You’re, you’re good. Like, and I, I love that framework.

Tim Newman [00:17:39]:
Yeah. But you know that. So that, that piece right there to me is something that I, I don’t know that I’ll ever understand. It’s probably just because I, this is just my face and this is how I look. I mean, there’s not a lot you could do with his face. Right. But you know, the, what, what your generation does is, is put so much effort, emphasis on how you look and what other people think that you look. How how other people view you and how you look and what you do when, especially from the digital perspective, 99% of these people don’t know you.

Nick Batchelder [00:18:14]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:18:15]:
And we put so much of our. Of who we are into what people who we don’t even know whose opinion.

Nick Batchelder [00:18:23]:
Yeah. It’s funny you mentioned that. I was having. I was talking about this on one of my recent podcast episodes. We were talking about, like, Instagram, and I was. I was really reflecting on, like, how my main Instagram page is, like, so fake.

Tim Newman [00:18:35]:
Yeah.

Nick Batchelder [00:18:36]:
Because I. Because now that I have two Instagram pages, right. I have my professional one, and then I have, like, my me one, and I was reflecting on it. I was like, wow. Like, the content that I post on my professional one, I would never post on my other one because it’s, like, too vulnerable. It’s too real. It’s too me. Right.

Nick Batchelder [00:18:50]:
Like, the other one is really just like, hey, here are my highlights. Here’s what I want you to think about me. And when I. When I started both. The second account, I really saw, like, how fake the other one was. I’m like, wow, this really isn’t me at all.

Tim Newman [00:19:04]:
Well, let’s actually get into that because that was, you know, recent episode, and. And I think it was with Chrissy.

Nick Batchelder [00:19:12]:
Yeah. Chrissy Desmond. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:19:13]:
Okay. And, you know, there was a lot of really good points in there that you talked about, you know, that being one of them. And, you know, I don’t know. I. I think she. I thought she brought up some really good points to say that that really wasn’t fake for you. It’s just different because. Because there’s a.

Tim Newman [00:19:33]:
There’s a professional Nick, and then there’s the regular Nick, the personal Nick, and there are some similarities there. And obviously you’re not going to post some things on a professional account that you would be posting on a personal account. Now, I’ve got different thoughts on that, but that’s not what this conversation is about. But, you know, you’re building a professional brand, and it’s still you. It still has the undertones of you. Right. And you’re not posting anything that you don’t truly think or feel. It’s just in a.

Tim Newman [00:20:17]:
It’s just done in a different, more professional way.

Nick Batchelder [00:20:22]:
Yeah, no, I’m actually glad you called me out there because I actually think you’re right, and I forgot Chrissy brought up that point. And you’re. You’re. You’re definitely right. It is actually it is a different side of me. It’s the more fun, relaxed side of me, and it’s definitely less vulnerable, but that doesn’t mean it’s not necessarily me.

Tim Newman [00:20:37]:
Right.

Nick Batchelder [00:20:37]:
And so. Yeah, no, I would, I would agree with you on that. Good point.

Tim Newman [00:20:40]:
But, but so if we as just on a regular, you know, general topics, if we could understand that, how much better would we be, you know, especially from that younger generation. Younger generation. So, like, you know, for me, I do now have a. Actually, the only, the only separate professional account that I have is on Instagram. That’s the only one. Everything else is all. It’s just me. It’s either personal or professional, depending on what I’m posting.

Tim Newman [00:21:15]:
And the. And the only reason why I had that one on Instagram is, is because I did not want to mix, you know, some of my other, other ventures, like, like my golf stuff, did not want that involved in the speaking with confidence stuff because just I don’t want to confuse people in that, in that manner. But essentially the tone is still the same. The content may be a little bit different, but the tone and who I come across as, I think is still the same because I think, you know, doesn’t matter. Even though we are so, you know, living in such a digital world, we still want to be seen as, as, as human, which builds even more trust.

Nick Batchelder [00:22:03]:
Yeah, you’re right. And as I start to think about it more, I think the biggest reason I have the different accounts is just the people I want seeing it. Actually, I think it’s more so just I have the personal account because I have a select few of people. I’m like, these are the people that I want to post this to. Like, this is who this is meant. And I think that’s actually even the biggest factor there. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:22:25]:
Yeah. You know, a couple other things I wanted to bring up in that episode. You know, you talked about, you were in class and you had a CEO of a bank who came in who gave a presentation, and he was really, really nervous, and it was obvious that he was nervous. And then you wanted to ask a question, but you were nervous about asking the question. And I thought that was really, really good. And things to think about here is it doesn’t matter where you are in life. Speaking in public is not easy and.

Nick Batchelder [00:23:01]:
Just putting yourself out there. And yeah, I think that’s one of the biggest things, misconceptions that I see is people are like, all right, one day I’m going to wake up and I’m going to be confident. It’s like, that’s not how that works.

Tim Newman [00:23:13]:
That’s not how it works.

Nick Batchelder [00:23:14]:
That’s not how it works. Some days you’re a two, some days. Some days you’re six, some days you’re nine. And the reality is, like, the people who are really good at confidence are good at just getting themselves from like a two to a six on a bad day or six to a nine on a, you know, okay day. And then, like, staying at a nine on a great day, right? Like, you just have to have tools in the toolbox to help you kind of get yourself up a little bit higher than you kind of naturally are. Because every day I’m different, right? Like, right now I’m feeling pretty good. I’m. I would say I’m like an eight.

Nick Batchelder [00:23:38]:
And, you know, last weekend I was so tired and I rolled a bed. I wasn’t feeling good. I was probably like a three. And I’m like, I’m staying inside today, right? And you just have to, like, kind of battle that and know, like, it’s just a journey and it’s never going to be a 10 out of 10. And I think it’s more fun that way because I think life would be boring if we just found we had these skills and then we got to keep them at a perfect level forever. Like, it’s more fun to develop them.

Tim Newman [00:23:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s. It’s. So this past weekend, I had to. I had to do a recording. And I don’t. Kept telling my wife, I said, I’ve got to get this done this weekend.

Tim Newman [00:24:10]:
I have to do it this weekend. I have to do it this weekend. And Saturday afternoon, she said, you’re not doing today because I’m looking at you, and there’s no way that you’re going to be able to do it and come across the way that I know you want to come across. And I said, seriously, you’re really going to say that to me? But she was right. And I mean, I could have gone through the motions and I could have, you know, done. Done the fake confidence. I could have done the fake smile, everything else. But, you know, especially when you’re doing it on camera, right? Number one, it’s going to come across because it’s there for forever.

Tim Newman [00:24:42]:
And you post it, it’s there for forever, right? And it’s very different if now I’m going to a networking event and I’ve got to go and do those things. I’ve got to do whatever I need to do to get out of that funk, to get out of that mindset because again, let’s talk about mindset here in a second. But to get out of that mindset and get into the professional mindset of building and making connections. Right?

Nick Batchelder [00:25:08]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a, it’s an interesting balance of taking care of yourself when you’re really not feeling it, and also knowing like, hey, this is a moment I need to push through and really develop yourself. And the more you do it, the better you get at finding the distinction of like, okay, is this a self care moment or is this a push through, like, strap on your boots moment?

Tim Newman [00:25:27]:
Yeah. So let’s talk about mindset and building connections because, you know, that’s, to me, it’s something, you know, as a, as a former college professor, I would talk about a ton and how important building network and building personal relationships and connections are and how, how it does take a certain mindset to be able to do that. You can’t, you can’t go, let’s just say, for example, you can’t go to a networking event, you know, hang out up against the wall, you know, have your drink and eat some crackers or, or cheese or whatever it is, and expect that people are going to come up to you and start building connections. You have to, to be the one to go out and initiate those things.

Nick Batchelder [00:26:12]:
Yeah. And it applies everywhere. Right. If you’re, you know, at the bar, like people, you know, someone, a girl’s not going to walk up to you if you’re just sitting in the bar in the corner. Right. Like, same with networking, Same with making friends at a club. Right. If you’re joining a club for the first time, like, you have to go talk to these members.

Nick Batchelder [00:26:28]:
But it’s scary and it’s new and it’s intimidating for a lot of people and you really do have to start taking baby steps to like, kind of get used to that and get, you know, feel like that’s something you’re good at. And like we were just saying with public speaking confidence, it’s not, it’s never going to be super. It’s never going to be like the easiest thing ever. I mean, maybe if you do it for the whole, your whole life. I still get nervous all the time about it and I do this all the time.

Tim Newman [00:26:52]:
Yeah, well, I, I hate it, dude. I’m, I’m an introvert. I mean, I, I would rather poke myself in the eyeballs with toothpick than go to a networking event. And that’s just God’s honest truth. I, I mean, I just, I I hate doing it. I don’t like doing it. But, you know, there’s that other piece. At some point, as, As a.

Tim Newman [00:27:15]:
As an adult and as a professional, there are things that you have to do in life, and so you better. You’re going to do it. Do it. I mean, you know, do what you need to do to go and. And. And be good at it and do the things that you need to do so that you can go and be successful. Because if you. If you.

Tim Newman [00:27:32]:
If you let these things stop you, you’re never, ever going to be successful.

Nick Batchelder [00:27:37]:
Yeah. One of the things I’ve been thinking about is, like, okay, like, the people that go to networking events and, like, kill it. Like, why are they killing it? It’s like, well, a lot of those people just want to be there and they love it, right? And it’s kind of fun for them, right? Like, just the uber extroverts, right? And so that’s been something I’ve been thinking about, like, too of, like, okay, if you. If you’re an introvert and you don’t enjoy this, like, you got to find ways that you enjoy it. You got to find ways to make it more fun for yourself, right? You got to make it a game of, like, all right, if I get five, you know, business connections, I get. I get ice cream after this. I don’t know what I get coffee the next morning, right? Or, like, sometimes I’ll go with my buddies. I’ll make it a competition.

Nick Batchelder [00:28:08]:
Like, all right, let’s see who can give, you know, meet more people, more. More recruiters, right? Whoever gets more recruiters, other person buys them a drink the next day, right? I try and find ways to make it fun. I also just try and find ways to keep it light. And like I mentioned earlier, I like to think of it as, like, a chance to, like, work on my improv and, like, just kind of mess around a little. But I would say the biggest thing that helps me in those situations, it helps me in podcasts like this, right? Like, this is, like, the first big thing I’m doing with my day, right. I think a lot of people would be really nervous about this. Like, I’m actually not. NER wasn’t nervous about this beforehand.

Nick Batchelder [00:28:43]:
I think the biggest reason is just, like, being present.

Tim Newman [00:28:47]:
Yes.

Nick Batchelder [00:28:48]:
Being really good at being present. Because when I’m here in this moment, I’m not thinking about what happens if I say the wrong thing, right? I’m not thinking about mistakes I’ve made in the past. I’m very present with you right now, and it helps make this less scary and more enjoyable.

Tim Newman [00:29:01]:
And, you know, I think that you really kind of nailed. Nailed it on a. For a number of different things, right? Because if you talk about being present and listening and being engaged, right? Number one, if you’re not present, it’s obvious. I mean, it is so obvious. Especially if you’re going to a networking event and you’re trying to make a connection. If you’re not present and engaged, it’s. It’s doesn’t matter, right? But you can’t build true connection. You can’t build true relationships if you’re not willing to be present, if you’re not willing to be engaged in the other person and being interested in them, and it comes across, it shows on your face.

Tim Newman [00:29:44]:
You know, the one thing that. And this bothers me across the board, I don’t care who it is. When you’re having a conversation with somebody and you hear the phone go off and the first thing they do is they stop and they look at the phone, you know, to me, okay, why am I bothering? You know? And again, I’m not saying that I’m perfect in this, in no way, shape or form, right? But when you’re having a conversation with somebody, when you’re, when you’re, you know, with other people, unless somebody’s head’s falling off, that phone should be the last thing on your mind. You should. You should be so involved in that. And if you’re not involved in it, then step back from that. You know, step back and step away so that you. You’re not coming across as unengaged, uninterested.

Tim Newman [00:30:36]:
I mean, that’s. There. There’s so much to the. The whole idea of the personal interactions that technology takes away from.

Nick Batchelder [00:30:45]:
Yeah. For anyone listening who’s like, man, I don’t feel like I’m that charismatic. I don’t feel like I’m that cool. I don’t feel like people like me when I’m at this events. I feel like I’m always nervous. Like, I like to tell people it’s the easiest it’s ever been to be the most charismatic person in the room. Like, people are distracted. People are not engaged.

Nick Batchelder [00:31:02]:
People are not good at reading body language. People are not good at being authentic. Right. Like, it’s actually so easy nowadays to, like, come off as, like, wow, this dude is confident and charismatic. And it’s, it’s as simple as you’re engaged. Your body language is facing somebody. You’re leaning in when they’re saying something. Interesting, right? You’re with that person and people really pick up on that because it’s rare in a lot of settings today.

Tim Newman [00:31:26]:
It is. It really, truly is. You know, and, you know, there are so many things that you can do. Like you just said to show engagement for people like me. Again, who’s an introvert who doesn’t like doing these things that, you know, you can do and still be successful, asking questions, showing interest, you know, and one thing you talked about awareness, but awareness about who you are as an individual. Right. Because you can’t really build connection, true, real connections with, with other people if you don’t know who you are as an individual, you know?

Nick Batchelder [00:32:06]:
Yeah. And the, the more you know who you are, the easier it is because the more you’re okay with going, hey, I’m not for you, or we’re not for each other. Right. Like, we’re not a match. Like, that was something. That was a game changer for me, especially with the social media content where I go, okay, like, if. If I go to meet this person and we don’t, you know, we’re not matching or like, we. It’s just not working.

Nick Batchelder [00:32:26]:
It’s kind of awkward. My first reaction isn’t, oh, like there’s something wrong with me. My first reaction is like, I’m just not for this person. We’re just different. Right. Like, that’s natural and that’s really helpful. And that gives you a lot of confidence to go, right? Oh, like, I’m going to meet all these people and even if I only connect with one of them, that’s fine. That’s because that’s just the person I was meant to connect with.

Nick Batchelder [00:32:43]:
Like, that’s natural and that gives you a lot of inner confidence. You’re like, hey, like, this is who I am and I know it. And I’m looking for people who are like me. And then I’m going to connect with.

Tim Newman [00:32:52]:
Yeah. And it’s so important. It’s such a good point. That you know somebody. And again, don’t take this the wrong way, that somebody your age has already figured that out. Right. Because there are so many people that are so much older than you that have never figured that out. And that only comes from doing the work on yourself, knowing who you are, knowing who you are as an individual, what your values are, what your core values are, what you like, what you don’t like, what you want, what you don’t want, what you’re looking for, the directions you want to go and understand.

Tim Newman [00:33:25]:
Some of those things in life are going to change. But if you don’t feel that and don’t know those things as those other things are changing again, you’re never really going to have true connection.

Nick Batchelder [00:33:38]:
Yeah. One of my favorite things I get, you know, a little. One of my favorite things is like, sometimes I’ll be in the living room and I’ll just be sitting on the couch and I’ll just be like, I have no devices on me. I’ll just be thinking about stuff, right? My roommates will come in. I’d be like, are you okay? Like, are you depressed? What’s going on? I’m like, no, I’m just thinking. And I was like, I think it’s so funny. Like, I don’t, I don’t. I know very few other, like, people this age that just, like, sit around and think.

Nick Batchelder [00:34:01]:
And I think that’s a big part of it too. Like, the more time you spend with yourself, the more, the more confident you get, I think is a big part of it. Like, once you get to know you, that’s a great way to get to know you. It’s just sitting around for a bit and going for a walk and just thinking about things that you find curious too, and just, you know, working your mind and getting it sharper and all that stuff. Just all the, all those little things accumulate, right? It’s never one big thing, right? So there’s a little bit an X, a little bit of Y, a little bit of Z. And a lot of people nowadays are like, all right, give me the big fix. Like, what’s. Give me the thing.

Nick Batchelder [00:34:34]:
Give me the one thing I need.

Tim Newman [00:34:36]:
Easy fix. They want something.

Nick Batchelder [00:34:37]:
That’s the one thing I need. Yeah. And it’s, that’s just not how it goes. And, and like you mentioned, like, a lot of people in their 40s and 50s and maybe 60s, like, don’t even know this yet. And that’s one of them. That’s why my mission statement is like, hey, like, I want to teach people now because think about the kind of change you can make once you have that, right. Like, so many doors open up and I’m going to have so many more options in life because I have it at 21 than if I had learned it at 41. And my goal is to get that into as many people as possible and that hopefully being a peer, to listen to me a little more than, you know, 50 year old telling them, and.

Tim Newman [00:35:11]:
I’m with you, I hope they do too. And that’s, that’s also why it’s so important at Least from my perspective that you’re doing this because, you know.

Nick Batchelder [00:35:21]:
I.

Tim Newman [00:35:21]:
Could tell them a thousand times, right? And then you come in, you say the exact same words in the exact same language, exact same words, exact same phrasing, exact same tone, and you touch them where if I do it, it’s over their head for whatever reason and, you know, whatever it takes to get through, to get people to. And I say that like it’s a bad thing to get through to them. You know, it’s. But that’s not what, that’s not exactly what I mean, it’s like you’re in trouble, I’m trying to get through you, but it’s not exactly what I’m talking about. But it’s. Whatever’s going to, going to resonate with somebody is really all that matters to me. I don’t care who says it, I don’t care who does it, but as long as you get it from somewhere and you hear it from somebody, that these are the things I need to be doing or I should be doing, that’s all I care about.

Nick Batchelder [00:36:14]:
Yeah, I mean, that’s part of the reason you have guests on a podcast, right? It’s like, let’s get all these different perspectives and because, I mean, you know so much of this already. But it’s, it’s easier for your audience when they hear it from different people and different perspectives and they hear similar ideas across people who don’t know each other. Right. And you’re like, okay, that has some more validity then. And yeah, I think it’s, I think part of the reason too. People listen to people my age, listen to me a little more is like, after this call, I got econ homework and then I’m going to office hours, right? Yeah, right. And then I like, it’s, I’m, I’m still a normal college student. I just have a bit of this.

Tim Newman [00:36:46]:
As well, you know, and it’s, it’s funny you say that that’s what you’re doing. I mean, I don’t know how you find time to do all these things. And you know, one of the things that you said to me when we did our, our pre interview talk is that you read a lot of books, which to me is great. I mean, I, I think of the things that really move us forward are, to me, some of the most important are reading books and asking questions. Reading books and asking questions, I think are two of the biggest things that move us forward and to find somebody again. And I say, I don’t want this to Sound bad? Because I’m not putting your generation out. But one problem that I have with your generation is you don’t like to read. You don’t.

Tim Newman [00:37:33]:
Or you don’t read.

Nick Batchelder [00:37:34]:
Yeah. Don’t read at all. No, I try and give my. I try and give my friends books all the time. They won’t read it.

Tim Newman [00:37:40]:
So how. How can we change that? Because I think that’s a. That’s a. That’s a big. That’s a big hurdle.

Nick Batchelder [00:37:48]:
It’s a big hurdle. And you can’t just hand someone a book and tell them to read. I’ve tried. That doesn’t work. My philosophy. Well, I have two things that I’m trying right now to do that. The biggest one is I’m trying to be a role model. So when people go, hey, how can I be like you? It’s like, well, you got to read.

Nick Batchelder [00:38:07]:
That’s one of the core things I do. Right. Like, that’s, you know, if your role model is. If your role model tells you this is what they do, like, you’re. You’re more likely to do it. So that’s.

Tim Newman [00:38:16]:
Right.

Nick Batchelder [00:38:16]:
That’s part of it. It’s just being a good example. And then a lot of, like, the content that I create, like, the book that I wrote was about was trying to make it as easy as possible for people to read. Like, I’ll show you, for example, this is, you know Rick Rubin?

Tim Newman [00:38:30]:
Yeah, I know the name.

Nick Batchelder [00:38:32]:
Yeah, I love Rick Rubin. Anyway, this is his book, right? Love this book. And like, I tell people to read it, people won’t read it. Right. Like, my. That’s mine.

Tim Newman [00:38:40]:
Right.

Nick Batchelder [00:38:40]:
Like, that’s part of it, too. Is like, I’m. Okay. I’m like, all right, first off, let me try and be a role model. And also, like, how can I make this as easy as possible for you? Like this. My book’s like, 80 pages. It’s so many examples. It’s super to the point.

Nick Batchelder [00:38:51]:
Right? So it’s like, okay, I’m going to make this as easy as possible for you. And then also, like, hey, like, if you want to do what I’m doing, you gotta read.

Tim Newman [00:38:58]:
Yeah.

Nick Batchelder [00:38:58]:
But it’s a tricky one, and I’m still working on it.

Tim Newman [00:39:01]:
Yeah. And it’s. I like the fact that you wrote a book for people that don’t like to read. Yeah.

Nick Batchelder [00:39:11]:
Yeah. I like to say, like you said.

Tim Newman [00:39:15]:
You make it easy for them. Much easier for them to read. And I think part of it is. And I’m glad you made that visual. The. It’s our attention spans. Right. And a lot of that has to do with.

Tim Newman [00:39:29]:
With technology and so forth. Not to get too much, too far down the field on that, but. But it’s our attention span is part of it. And if you have something, like you said, that’s an easy read, that’s shorter and to the point that that is something that is. Is theoretically helpful.

Nick Batchelder [00:39:48]:
Yeah. And, well, the first step’s always the hardest. Yeah. Right. Like, you see so many people. They’re like, I won’t watch. I’m not going to watch a movie that’s too long. And then they end up watching eight episodes of a TV show.

Nick Batchelder [00:39:57]:
Right. It’s like, well, why do they do that? It’s like, well, the 30 minutes seems more appealing to them than the two hours. So like, okay, I’ll do the 30 minutes.

Tim Newman [00:40:03]:
Right.

Nick Batchelder [00:40:04]:
And then they end up watching more anyway. And so, like, just having a visual book that’s like this thin versus this thick, you’re like, okay, I can get through that. It just seems like less of a commitment. Like committing to things is a big thing right now. Of like, people do not want to commit to things, and making things as minimal of a commitment as possible is big. And I was joking with my dad. I was like, how good of a businessman am I that I wrote a book for people who don’t like to read? Right. But it’s a fun challenge, and that’s the audience it’s meant for and will help the most.

Tim Newman [00:40:34]:
But the book has been well received.

Nick Batchelder [00:40:39]:
Yes, it has.

Tim Newman [00:40:43]:
Let’s go back to some of the comments. You know, the, the reviews on Amazon, they’re all really good except for one. And I think the one is a spoof. I. I read it. I. I think the one is just some, you know, some troll trying to.

Nick Batchelder [00:40:58]:
Find, you know, what’s funny is I know exactly who wrote that.

Tim Newman [00:41:01]:
Do you really?

Nick Batchelder [00:41:03]:
It’s my ex girlfriend’s little brother’s friend.

Tim Newman [00:41:08]:
I see. Done. Okay.

Nick Batchelder [00:41:09]:
Well, yeah, but yeah, literally, I thought I saw that. I was like, I was reading that. It was like, his financial tips are terrible. I was like, I didn’t leave any financial tips. I was like, what? And I was like, I was texting some people. I was like, okay, there we go. I was like, so it’s. It’s just part of it.

Nick Batchelder [00:41:25]:
But I was, I was. I actually liked it better. I was like, I kind of like 4.8 stars better than 5. I was like, it makes it seem more real. I was like, yeah, they’re all five stars. It Seems fake, you know?

Tim Newman [00:41:35]:
Well, you know, I. I’m really, I’m really impressed in what you’re doing, and I know you got to get homework, and I’m laughing, but. But I’m not laughing. It’s. It’s just, you know, let’s just put this way. Let’s say you’re 23, okay? When you’ve done this, okay, you may have a meeting to go to. It’s. It’s just a different.

Tim Newman [00:41:56]:
Just a different timetable, different schedule. I.

Nick Batchelder [00:42:00]:
Yesterday. Yesterday. Yesterday I was doing podcast work, editing, posting. Good one. Right? And then I had an intramural softball game.

Tim Newman [00:42:08]:
That’s awesome.

Nick Batchelder [00:42:08]:
Hey, like, that’s my life. It’s like I’m doing this and then I’m doing softball, and then I’m doing econ homework and then I’m in a fraternity, right? And like, it’s, it’s. I think, I think that really helps with my message because I’m like, hey, like, if I’m 21 years old and I’m doing all this normal stuff that you’ve all done before, right? And I’m doing this, you can do it too, Without a doubt. If the 21 year old frat guy can do it, you can do it. Like, trust me.

Tim Newman [00:42:39]:
And then again, to me, it comes back to mindset. You know, what’s going on up here? What is it that you have to do? What’s that switch to make a commitment, to get over the hump, whatever it is. Because we all have our thing, right? It doesn’t matter. However many billion people in the world, every single one of us has our own thing that is holding us back. And I don’t care who you are, I don’t care if you’re Tony Robbins, Simon Sinek, Grant Card, I don’t care. We all have our thing that’s going on up here. And whatever it is that we have to do to get over that, let’s figure it out sooner rather than later and just, just do it. Do the thing.

Nick Batchelder [00:43:24]:
And everyone knows what that thing is, right? Right. Like, Jordan Peterson has a good clip where he’s like, if you sit down and ask yourself what’s, like, what are the five thing one to five things I need to work on. It’s like, you know it. You just don’t want to look at it.

Tim Newman [00:43:36]:
Right?

Nick Batchelder [00:43:36]:
Yeah. You’re just avoiding it because that’s. It’s gonna be hard to face those things.

Tim Newman [00:43:41]:
Exactly.

Nick Batchelder [00:43:42]:
And, and I would say my one message is to people that are gonna start on that path is you don’t have to be perfect every day.

Tim Newman [00:43:50]:
Yes.

Nick Batchelder [00:43:50]:
Right. The idea is, like, it’s split into thirds. A third of the time, you’re gonna have a bad day. It’s just not gonna work. You’re gonna revert to your old habits. You’re not gonna make any progress. A third of the time, it should be going pretty good. Like, you made some good progress.

Nick Batchelder [00:44:03]:
You felt like you did a decent job. Maybe you didn’t kill it, but it was good. A third of the time, it should be great. Like, man, I killed today. That’s natural progression of, like, it’s not gonna be good. Good, good, good. It’s gonna be good. Great, great, bad, Good, bad, Great, great, good.

Nick Batchelder [00:44:17]:
Right? Like, that’s just what happens. I think a lot of people are like, oh, it has to be great. And then if it’s not great, why even bother? That’s just not how that works.

Tim Newman [00:44:24]:
It’s not how it works.

Nick Batchelder [00:44:26]:
Don’t. Don’t be too hard on yourself if you have a bad day.

Tim Newman [00:44:29]:
Right. You guys, I tell people, progress over perfection because consistency is key. More you do something, the easier. I’m not saying the better you get. The more you do something, the easier it gets. You have to actually do, you know, be willing to grow to. To be better. Right.

Tim Newman [00:44:48]:
The more you do things, the easier it gets. So just start doing the thing. Just start whatever it is, get over it, and. And, you know, and you’re gonna be fine.

Nick Batchelder [00:45:00]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:45:01]:
Yeah.

Nick Batchelder [00:45:01]:
But don’t get easier. We just get better at dealing with them.

Tim Newman [00:45:04]:
Oh, just. Just wait. You know, they trust me. They don’t. I’m sure that’s why I’m still 12.

Nick Batchelder [00:45:10]:
That’s why it’s easier that way. Right? It’s more fun.

Tim Newman [00:45:13]:
That one’s much easier. It’s much easier. You know, I tell people all the time, you know, I’m doing great unless you tell me otherwise. If you tell me I got other things I got to worry about, then. Then I’ll start worrying about. Other than that, I’m doing great.

Nick Batchelder [00:45:25]:
I love that.

Tim Newman [00:45:27]:
So it’s awesome. But, Nick, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I really do appreciate the insight. You know, you’re doing great things. Where can people find you? Where can they buy your book? All the good stuff?

Nick Batchelder [00:45:41]:
Yeah. So you can buy the book on Amazon. Just look up Crusher 20s, and you can find my podcast, Building the Blueprint on YouTube or Spotify. And if you get confused about any of that, just look up Nick Bachelder on the Internet. And my Website will come up and you can find all the good stuff and the Nick Bachelder on all socials.

Tim Newman [00:45:58]:
And it does come up. You got a great website. Your podcast is going great. I love the topics before I sign off again, because I’ve always got one more thing. I could talk forever, but as an introvert, keep that in mind. I love the topics and I love what you’re doing, especially for somebody like me. We’ve talked about. I think it’s incumbent upon us as the older generations to figure out what’s going on with the younger generation so that we can have stronger relationships and stronger connections and stronger communications.

Tim Newman [00:46:38]:
And there’s a couple of really good podcasts out there that mix kind of what I’m doing. But what you’re doing is great because you’re talking to your peers and we can, we’re hearing from their mouth what’s going on in their life, what they think, how they’re reacting, what their mindset is. Right. It’s so important. And I think if we’re going to move forward as a society, we have to bring these, our generations together more to understand each other so that we can, can actually work together better. Just leave it there.

Nick Batchelder [00:47:17]:
I, I appreciate that and I completely agree. And yeah, my whole goal is relatable curiosity. With the podcast, it’s like, hey, you know, self help is great, but I want to bring. But everyone who does it is, you know, no offense, like 30 to 50 or 60. Right. And it’s like, all right, let’s bring a more pure perspective. And I want people who maybe go, oh, like, that’s not my thing. Like, personal growth’s not my thing to be like, all right, hey, come on, it’s gonna be fun.

Nick Batchelder [00:47:41]:
It’s gonna be a little more silly. And then we’re gonna also have this bit of personal growth. So you get a bit of both and introduce more people. So it kind of be a stepping stone right into this world. So people kind of get into it and then go, oh, like, I really want to work on my confidence. Oh, I know Tim has a great confidence podcast. Let me check that out. Right.

Tim Newman [00:47:57]:
You know, again, I appreciate it. So do you have that some of the conversations you have with getting your guests on that?

Nick Batchelder [00:48:05]:
What do you mean? Like, that they’re not interested in like, self help stuff? No, not, I mean, not particularly. I don’t, like, ask them that. But I, I mean, I really don’t know anyone else who’s as interested in this stuff. I, I know I could count on my. On my hands, how many people I know that are interested in this personal development stuff in the same way that I am. Right. And so I’ve had part of it, I had a couple of those people on, but most of it is just, you know, they’re like, it’s just, it’s just a foreign world to them. They’re like, that’s a thing for 30 and 40 and 50 year olds to do.

Nick Batchelder [00:48:35]:
That’s not a thing for 20 year olds to do. I’ve got time. It doesn’t matter. Right. It’s like, no, it’s not. You can utilize the time, but that’s.

Tim Newman [00:48:41]:
What makes our point.

Nick Batchelder [00:48:43]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:48:43]:
Now is the time.

Nick Batchelder [00:48:45]:
Now’s the time. You can utilize the time and have way more options and way more fun with the time if you prepare yourself now. But that’s not the easy thing to do.

Tim Newman [00:48:54]:
Exactly. Well, again, Nick, again, thanks so much for your time. I do appreciate it. You take care and we’ll talk to you soon, bud.

Nick Batchelder [00:49:01]:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Tim.

Tim Newman [00:49:04]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome it. You can also register for the Forum for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time. Take care.