Transforming Self-Talk and Breaking the Victim Mindset with Clay Moffat | Tim Newman

Tim Newman [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today’s guest is Clay Moffat. Clay is a Navy vet turned performance strategist who’s coached billionaires, pro athletes, fighters and founders. He’s built a seven figure business, lost it all in an app implosion, and came back swinging, riding the trust trap in 21 days while facing the permanent risk of blindness. His work now helps people reclaim their authority by mastering the nervous system patterns that sabotage clarity, presence, and influence. Clay doesn’t teach confidence, he teaches conviction.

Tim Newman [00:00:57]:
Empowered with pattern recognition and purpose. Clay, welcome to the show, bud.

clay moffat [00:01:02]:
Thanks for having me, Tim. I appreciate that intro. It’s very fancy.

Tim Newman [00:01:05]:
Well, you know, you’ve got an incredible story and I want to talk a little bit about the book Trust Trap in a few minutes, which it’s amazing and people are going to get a lot of value out of it. But before we get to that, you know, I want to start with the idea of radical responsibility. What does that mean to you and how does that apply to personal and professional development?

clay moffat [00:01:29]:
So that’s a simple thing. Radical responsibility is, simply put, the idea that for every single situation, there is a part that you have to own if you want to get to the next stage or next evolution or next level of life, if you want to call it that, whatever it is that you’re doing, whether it’s professional, personal and relationship, it doesn’t matter whether it’s in your job, whether it’s in your vocation, whether it’s in a hobby, whether it’s in a skill that you want to develop, where you want to learn another language, you’re going to have to own something. So if you’ve got a bad coach or a bad teacher or a bad boss or a bad something or another, that’s fine. That will be limiting. However, are you showing up 100% the same as if you have a good boss? And the answer is you’re likely not. And so we’re clear, I’m not saying it’s your fault. What I am saying is you need to own that part of you, right? And I had to do a lot of owning to a lot of parts to me for a long time because I spent the good portion of the first almost 30 years of my life Walking around in an unknown state of victimhood where I could find it so easily to blame everyone else for my misfortunes, when really I was the douchebag that managed to put myself in that position time and time again. And I just didn’t see it that way.

clay moffat [00:02:43]:
I just always relegated back. So radical responsibility is the idea of even if it’s just 1% that you’ve contributed to a situation, you have to own that to get any sort of personal power, personal freedom back.

Tim Newman [00:03:02]:
Yeah, that’s so important. And I think that, you know, the whole idea of, of how self absorbed we, we are as, as, as people and is really as human nature, because it’s, it’s how we’re built. Everything is about us. You know, we talked a little bit about this, you know, before we started. We make it about us. You know, we’re self absorbed in, you know, this is what I’m doing. And you know, you do this over here and I can’t believe that you’re not, you’re not supporting me doing what I’m doing doesn’t really matter. And, and when you look at it from that professional perspective, like you just said, you’ve got a bad boss, maybe he’s not even a bad boss.

Tim Newman [00:03:43]:
Maybe you’re just showing up. Maybe you’re a bad employee. Maybe you’re not doing the things that you need to do and they’re calling you out on, on your, on your stuff.

clay moffat [00:03:52]:
Absolutely. So there’s a question that a lot of people tend to ask at some point in time, especially if there’s someone that is unknowingly in what I call the state of victimhood, and they’ll ask the question, why is this happening to me? Or why does this continue to happen to me? Or why does this keep repeating in my life? And the problem is, and anyone that’s listening right now, and even yourself, Tim, if you ever ask that question, go back and count the times that it gave you an answer that did not reinforce and suddenly show up all the reasons why your life sucked.

Tim Newman [00:04:25]:
Yeah.

clay moffat [00:04:25]:
And it’s zero because it’ll always show you that.

Tim Newman [00:04:28]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:04:28]:
So a lot of people will talk. And coaching and guiding people and mentoring people is about asking good questions. And so instead of having this question of why is this happening to me? The question to reverse the power frame for yourself is how did I create this? Or how am I creating this? So you can start, put it back in. Because that then shifts you from, okay, like this is completely external. I have no part in this. I’m the victim here to. Okay. No matter how much there is externally involved, like you can’t forecast whether.

clay moffat [00:05:01]:
I mean, meteorology department don’t even go right that often. So you’re probably not going to. So you can’t go. Okay, we’re going to go do this excursion. I’ll give you an example completely off topic, but right on the topic. My wife had to go away to Dubai for a conference for her work. And I was going to take my son away to the jungle because he wanted to go see bears. He’s wanted to go see bears for a long time.

clay moffat [00:05:26]:
We have the Malaysian sun bear and the Asiatic black bear over here. And you know like Blue from the Jungle Book, Right. They, you know, they’ll, they’ll maul you if you get in between them. But they’re not aggressive, they’re not carnivorous. They, they won’t go after adults and kids and humans. So you’re relatively safe anyway. But he wanted to go sit. So I waited to the last minute, wait till the last one, like, okay, let’s book the tickets because nothing can go wrong now.

clay moffat [00:05:53]:
We’re good to go. So I booked the tickets that morning. That evening he gets his fever goes all the way up over. I’m like, okay, we’re not getting on the plane tomorrow. That’s canceled. And I didn’t say, oh, look at me, oh, why is this happening to me? I’ve just wasted. I can promise you. I was frustrated.

clay moffat [00:06:07]:
So I’m like, I thought I’d done everything. It’s the last minute, we’re good to go. And because I left it such last minute, I paid a premium for the flights. Then on anti throw the flights away because I didn’t get travel insurance because I left at the last minute. So it was all on my shoulders. I thought I was doing the right thing and ended up coming full circle and coming back in my face. No, you didn’t do the right thing. Next time book it earlier and just get travel insurance and maybe you’re getting money back or change flights or something like that.

clay moffat [00:06:32]:
So it’s really about just having that level of acceptance within yourself. Because we are wired to make everything about us. That’s a default frame that a lot of us, not everyone, but a lot of us have it. There are some people that are people pleasing who have come from traumatic past or maybe not even traumatic, just the way that they were brought up where they are now. Trying to put other people first and they subdue themselves. But even then they still putting themselves first because they’re satisfying this other person so that they still get the feelings. It doesn’t matter how you frame it. It’s always going to come back to, like, what you need and what you want or even to the point what you have been conditioned to tell yourself that you want.

Tim Newman [00:07:26]:
Yeah. And so, so when. When you, when you look at it like, like that, from that, from that perspective, and I think about from my coaching perspective to get people to understand this, because if you hit them straight in the face with it, the first thing that they’re going to tell you is you’re nuts. I mean, you. You don’t. You don’t know me. You don’t know my life. You don’t know what I’ve been through.

Tim Newman [00:07:47]:
And when the reality is, okay, you’re right. I don’t know you. I don’t know your life. Don’t know what you’ve been through. We, because we all have our own stuff, we all go through something different.

clay moffat [00:07:56]:
For that.

Tim Newman [00:07:57]:
We have to. We have to, to. To break it down and look at it from maybe from a different perspective. So how do you go about coaching that? Because I think for me, I would start with something simple like you. Like, like a, Like a. And I’m not minimizing this, like the example that you just gave, you know, a flight. Okay? So it’s a. It’s a big deal.

Tim Newman [00:08:14]:
Cost you money, cost you time, your son’s sick and those, Those types of things. But in the, in the grand scheme of things, that’s a. That’s not that big of a deal. When you’re talking about a job, when you’re talking about relationships, when you’re talking about something bigger, you know, that’s a much bigger hurdle to overcome.

clay moffat [00:08:35]:
Yes and no. So, yes, this is a much bigger hurdle to overcome because a lot of people psychologically put more weight to it. But no, it’s still the same principle.

Tim Newman [00:08:44]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:08:44]:
Right. So I had to. I didn’t have to. I felt compelled to sell my house at a $200,000 loss because I hated having a mortgage. So I put down a significant deposit and started paying this mortgage. And purely for the fact that I hated owing someone money for something that I didn’t own that they could take away from me at any time. I was like, why did I sign for this? Like, I don’t care if it’s the dream for everyone. I’m out.

clay moffat [00:09:15]:
And I made a vow to myself that if I was ever going to buy a house again, not to buy cash, because I just don’t Want to owe anyone money. I just couldn’t do it. So that was a very significant decision to make because I then had to go, okay, I’ve just put all this money in and I paid all this money on interest, and now I’m selling at a significant loss. However, the piece that it was giving me was far superior to continuing to pay that mortgage. And it’s basically the same principle, because I had to own the fact that I was the one that entered into the mortgage agreement. No one forced me. No one compelled me.

Tim Newman [00:09:50]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:09:50]:
No one made me do it. And that’s probably the. The basic arc that people need to understand.

Tim Newman [00:09:57]:
Yeah.

clay moffat [00:09:57]:
Unless you’re under the age of 18, you are not really being compelled or forced to do anything. You. And even then, I’d argue that a lot of teenagers aren’t really forced or compelled to do much. They might be emotionally manipulated by their parents in some households. I’m not going to argue they might suffer physical abuse. I’m not suggesting the extreme cases. I’m talking the more general cases.

Tim Newman [00:10:22]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:10:23]:
What would be considered a typical household. And for the most part, they can push boundaries and they can push back and they can do these kind of things, but they’re still not being forced. Because what we all fail to recognize from time to time is that there’s kind of these group societal norms, and there’s a family norm, and then there’s a group societal norm, and then there’s these other norms, and we strive to fit into those norms so we’re not rejected or ostracized or kicked out or curbed. And so you are always making a choice that’s in your best interest. It’s just we forget the choice that we’re making because we’re like, oh, but, like, I don’t want to do this. Okay, so don’t do it. And what’s the alternative? The alternative is get kicked out of the tribe because you’re not pulling your weight or you’re not pitching in or you’re not doing whatever it is. Right.

clay moffat [00:11:09]:
And so therefore. Okay, do I want that? No. Okay. So that means I’m doing this because ultimately I want the end result that it gets. So I want this thing.

Tim Newman [00:11:17]:
Yeah. Yeah, it’s. You make really good points. And I want to go back to how you initially started that you said you had to, and then you stopped yourself and you changed the word and you changed the terminology, almost like it was a quick mindset change. You said you had to, and then you said, wait, no, I made the decision to Sell the house.

clay moffat [00:11:40]:
I was compelled to.

Tim Newman [00:11:41]:
Compelled to. Yeah. And that, I think is that to me is mindset. And that’s so important to understand because the words that we use and the terminology that we use, that, that, that kind of sets the tone.

clay moffat [00:11:56]:
Right, Absolutely.

Tim Newman [00:11:58]:
And, and, and not just for, for the people that are listening or hearing, but, but for ourselves in, in taking that radical responsibility that, that, that we’re talking about.

clay moffat [00:12:10]:
Well, you’re never going to speak to anyone else more than you speak to yourself here.

Tim Newman [00:12:13]:
No. Right.

clay moffat [00:12:15]:
So the, the words upstairs are the most important words that there are. And one of my mentors, Chase Hughes, said to me this one time, if you allowed someone to speak to you the way that you speak to yourself, or sorry, not if you’re allowed. If someone spoke to you the way you spoke to yourself, you’d drop them to the floor. Yeah, and I said, yeah, there’s a high chance, I mean, depending on who they were. Like, if it’s Shaquille o’, Neal, I probably, yeah, okay, whatever. But, you know, I’m not going to fight you, but I would most likely be like, what’s your problem? Like, why are you talking to me? Like, what’s your deal? And then we will give ourselves a pass like it’s perfectly fine to obliterate ourselves and demean ourselves and destroy ourselves and degrade ourselves, and it’s perfectly fine. And it’s not fine, but it’s also kind of been accustomed and accepted that this is just how it is and we have no way to change it. And more importantly for a lot of people, they don’t want to put in the effort to change it.

clay moffat [00:13:23]:
So it took a long time for me to change my self talk. And I had a very, very insatiable critic that wanted to criticize me on everything at every point and just was relentless. And I went through a process, it’s like a quick four stage process that I did with every single thought that became into my conscious awareness. Every single one. So the first day I did it, it was about 60 or 70 times, and it was about that period for about a month. So 60 or 70 times a day I go through this process. So, for example, let’s say the thought was, you’re a dumb ass. Why’d you do that? I would first say to myself, you know what? Thanks, Clay, I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.

clay moffat [00:14:03]:
Because when someone is criticizing you, and here’s the caveat, and they absolutely love you, the criticism is not done to bring you down. The criticisms, because they don’t know how to communicate. You’ll get your attention. When they’re criticizing you, they’re doing it because they’re worried about you, they’re fearful about you. They’re doing it from a place of love. And you see this with parents who constantly critique their children. It’s not good enough. You need to do better.

clay moffat [00:14:29]:
You raise your standards. Come on, what are you thinking? They’re not doing that to make the child feel like crap. They’re doing it because they want the child to be safe, to be secure, so that everything they put as of a high standard. So when they get out into the world they’ve got high standards, they can look after themselves and self reliance. And if you are of the mind right now that you believe that your subconscious is your enemy, then you don’t understand your subconscious and its role in keeping you alive because it is designed to keep you safe. And so it may have learned or been conditioned or watched or observed through time and be trained to get your attention in what would be seen in a negative way. And if that’s the case, then it is 100% your job and responsibility. Radical responsibility.

clay moffat [00:15:15]:
Again, to change it, you’ve got to own it. And this is what I talked about when we jumped back earlier. You may have been conditioned. So for example, my dad has very horrible self talk still to this day. And I know for a fact that’s where I picked up a lot of it from because I’ve watched him. He’d screw something up and he’d just obliterate himself. And I know he got that from my grandparents who treated him like crap. So it’s not his fault.

clay moffat [00:15:39]:
Just like it’s not my fault that I had it. It’s also my responsibility to change it.

Tim Newman [00:15:44]:
Change it, right?

clay moffat [00:15:45]:
So basically you acknowledge it. So if someone’s annoying you and nagging you and like trying to get your attention, you say, you know what, thanks Tim, I got it. Let’s pretend you’re like being trying to get my attention and nagging me because you wanted to tell me something super important, but you’re doing in a way that was just not demeaning but didn’t really connect with how I wanted to be spoken to. I’d say, you know what, Tim, I hear you loud and clear. Thank you, I’ve got it. What would be the next response from your mouth?

Tim Newman [00:16:18]:
What are you going to do differently?

clay moffat [00:16:20]:
Right, exactly. It’s a completely different frame. Like, okay, cool. All right, so what do you now.

Tim Newman [00:16:25]:
It’S like more inquisitive or how can I help you? How can I help you? Exactly what do you need to do better? I mean, that’s where. Again, that’s where you start asking different, different questions as opposed to making statements.

clay moffat [00:16:37]:
Exactly. So you just started going down the path and you do the exact same path with yourself. So first you thank yourself because it’s coming from your subconscious mind or your non conscious mind or your other than conscious mind or unconscious whatever you want to call it. I don’t care. So you know, this part of you is wanting to talk to you. So you thank that part of you for wanting to get your attention, for acknowledging something’s up, for acknowledging that you can be better and do better. Perfect. Okay.

clay moffat [00:17:03]:
So then you say, okay, so what’s the intention behind that comment? Like, what are you really trying to achieve? And a lot of the times you will come across like, I know we can do better. I know we can do better than this. Okay, perfect. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yes, I agree. We can do better. Now how could you say that to me in a way that’s useful? Oh, and you wait and you sit there, you shut up and let your brain come up with a solution.

clay moffat [00:17:28]:
It will say, you know what, next time I could say, clay, stop a moment. Let’s just think about how we can really commit to what we’re doing and get the result we want. All right, Perfect. So do you agree to start doing that from now on? Yes. Do you have any resistance to talking to me in this way? No. Okay, perfect. So let’s go do that. Thanks, buddy.

clay moffat [00:17:52]:
I love you. And off you go. And so you’re retraining the brain because you’re going to get a visceral emotional response to that because it’s going to feel different. Because your self talk is now shifting from a critic into a coach and you’re training it.

Tim Newman [00:18:09]:
Yeah. And what that does. And I’m just kind of thinking that through from. From physiological response in that our body has in that as well. Right. So when, when you. Let’s just say when you have that negative self talk or you call yourself an ass or you said, damn it, you’re. You’re an idiot.

Tim Newman [00:18:31]:
Why’d you do that? Your body goes through the same response as if somebody outside of you were saying that to you right now. So, so. And there is that physiological response. So by changing that, that’s going to change. By changing that self talk or by changing how we approach it, it’s going to change a physiological response to make us feel in a different way as well, correct.

clay moffat [00:19:01]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Because you’ll start connecting with the emotion that’s coming from underneath. So everyone wants to be judged on their intention, but judges others on their behavior.

Tim Newman [00:19:16]:
Yes.

clay moffat [00:19:18]:
However, this interaction you have internally, we judge ourselves on behavior as opposed to judging on the intention. And so what you’re doing by going through this process is you’re getting to the root of what’s going on. What’s the intention that you’re trying to communicate to me? Okay, let’s focus on that. Let’s focus on how we can change then. If that’s your intention, what could you say that’s more aligned with the result that you actually want to get? So you’re basically teaching yourself how to do self talk in a way that’s useful for you.

Tim Newman [00:19:55]:
How about that? Let that sit in for just a second. Because, you know, when we do that, when we look at it from. From that perspective with ourselves and we. And we start to communicate with others with that same type of intention, what’s going to be the. The end result? Number one, I think you’re going to have. You’re going to. You’re gonna. You’re gonna better conversations, you’re gonna have better connections, and you’re gonna have better results with whoever it is that.

Tim Newman [00:20:24]:
That you’re interacting with.

clay moffat [00:20:27]:
Well, you’re going to get twofold. If you start making it the habit that your response is. When someone gives you criticism, whatever it is, even if it’s said in a demeaning way, you say, you know what? Thanks, man, I appreciate that. That means you’re giving me something to think about. As soon as they do that, the nagging stops straight away because they feel like they’ve been heard. And it’s the same cycle. When you do it to yourself, your brain’s like, oh, Clay’s listening, Tim’s listening. Oh, we’re finally paying attention to what’s going on.

clay moffat [00:21:00]:
Awesome. And so then that loop that used to keep playing for hours on end shuts up because, like, yes, they’ve got it. And that’s the same thing that happens externally, like, oh, okay. Yep. Thanks. I appreciate that. Thanks very much. And I used to teach this to kids at school when they’re getting bullied.

clay moffat [00:21:19]:
Cause the bullies are usually going through something and they just can’t deal with something. And so a bully would say something to one of the kids that usually I’d be working with parents and they’d say, oh, my kid’s going through this. I’m like, oh, just tell them. Say this. Tell them Say thanks. Yeah, I’ve had a really good day, too. I appreciate you pointing that out. Thanks very much.

clay moffat [00:21:35]:
And the bully’s like, what? And then the kids just keep walking, and they didn’t know how to respond to it. And eventually the bully just gave up because there was no response whatsoever.

Tim Newman [00:21:49]:
And then they come to like, hey.

clay moffat [00:21:50]:
Man, what’s your deal? Like, I’m. I’m giving you a hard time. Why are you doing this? Like, well, because you’re pointing out something that you don’t like, and maybe I could work on it. So I appreciate it and just walk off. And these guys have got no idea how to respond to that.

Tim Newman [00:22:02]:
Yeah, yeah, that’s such a. I’m gonna say strategy, but that may not even be the right word. But it’s such a good way of being right with. With whoever, because like you said, the bully has no idea how to deal with it. And so the bullies, adults don’t either.

clay moffat [00:22:26]:
Tim, you’re right. Because they’re not used to. Someone’s going, you know what? Thanks. I appreciate it.

Tim Newman [00:22:31]:
I appreciate it.

clay moffat [00:22:32]:
Because they’re used to someone diving into the behavior itself versus the intention of the behavior.

Tim Newman [00:22:39]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:22:40]:
And so if you can go, you know what? I think this person. Because let’s face it, it’s very rare for you to wake up and have someone go, you know what? Today I’m going to get Tim. He is screwed. I’m going to make sure no one. No one does that. Unless you’ve been, like, a spy and you’ve been screwing people over your entire life, then, yeah, there’s a very real chance that someone is out to get you. But for the most part, no. Like, people, as we spoke about before, are so involved in their own head and what’s going on.

clay moffat [00:23:10]:
They’re just trying to stay in their lane and make it through the end of the day without wiping someone else out.

Tim Newman [00:23:14]:
Exactly.

clay moffat [00:23:15]:
But we get caught up on this, like, drama that, oh, everyone’s out to get me. Everyone’s going to go through this path and they’re going to really ruin me. No, no, not even close and close.

Tim Newman [00:23:26]:
And it, again, I’m not trying to neglect it, but it’s kind of funny how we got to that point. But we. I mean, this isn’t anything new. This isn’t something that just creeped up in, you know, last 10, 15 years that people have had these. These kinds of thoughts, you know, for forever. Right.

clay moffat [00:23:42]:
A long time.

Tim Newman [00:23:44]:
You know, it’s. And it just becomes. Just becomes inherent in being human. But it’s funny how we, we got to that point that we’re so worried about what other people are doing, even though everybody’s only thinking about themselves. And we, we act on and we behave on something that isn’t, isn’t real.

clay moffat [00:24:06]:
So it is real from evolutionary, evolutionary psychology point of view. It is very important to us what other people think of, because if they think negatively of us, we’re excommunicado, we’re out of the tribe, and now we’re going to die. And that’s built in from a lot of time in tribes as hunter gatherers. We spend a lot more time as hunter gatherers than we did since the agricultural age, which is only like the last 10,000 years. We’ve got, was it 150, 200,000 years before that of priming and conditioning and these patterns and these scripts that keep running and keep cycling. So it’s still in there. And, and then if you look at how fast technology has evolved over less 10,000 years, let alone the last 100, it’s just been insane the amount of breakthroughs and change that have happened. And our brain doesn’t keep up.

clay moffat [00:25:02]:
It doesn’t evolve like biologically, physiologically, we don’t evolve that fast.

Tim Newman [00:25:06]:
Well, let me, let me follow up with that here for just a second. You know, we just, you know, talking about your kids and my grandkids, you know, and you know, like I said, I’m a recovering college professor and what I found is that the younger generations are so much smarter today than they were when I was growing up. I mean, my students at 18 were so much smarter than I was when I was 18. I’m not saying that I was smart, I was an idiot, but intellectually they were smarter, they knew more things, right?

clay moffat [00:25:44]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:25:44]:
My, my five year old granddaughter is so much smarter at five than my daughter who’s 34 now was at five.

clay moffat [00:25:52]:
Right.

Tim Newman [00:25:53]:
And so you, so you talk about the evolution of the brain, right? So, so that part’s evolving, but the, that inner monologue is not.

clay moffat [00:26:04]:
So there’s a difference. Right.

Tim Newman [00:26:06]:
Because even my five year old granddaughter will say things about, about, well, so and so doesn’t like me because of this. And I said, well, did they say that? And she said no, so and so is doing these things and I got to make sure that I wear these clothes. And she’s at five clay.

clay moffat [00:26:24]:
So there’s a couple of things that, and that’s why it happens. So you’re talking about the education system. And the education system has money pumped into it. I don’t know about the American, but I know the Australian does. And most other countries around the world do. Right. They’re money pumped into Educate to Grow. Teaching as a degree is evolving and has evolved over the last 50 years.

clay moffat [00:26:44]:
So the teachers are changing the technology and the methodology they use has changed. What is messing with people in terms of this self and understanding of the self is that little boys will mirror their dads and little girls will mirror their moms. And whatever. Weaknesses is not the right word, but flaws is as close as I could get. Okay? So whatever flaws the mother has, the daughter will likely pick up on, even if the mother has never said anything. And this was done. They did an experiment with. There’s a soap company called Dove.

Tim Newman [00:27:24]:
Yeah.

clay moffat [00:27:25]:
And there’s a video on YouTube which you can watch called Mothers and Daughters, and it’s phenomenal. They. I’ll give you. I will ruin it for you, but it’ll save you having to go watch it. But if you want to watch it, go watch it. And basically, they have these mothers and daughters come in, and the mothers write down a list of everything they dislike about their bodies. And lo and behold, these daughters, who range from the age of like 4 to 12, have the exact same things that they don’t like about their bodies as their mothers. Identical.

clay moffat [00:27:57]:
And every single time. And the. The mother’s like. But I’ve never said this in front of her. I’ve never. I. But they don’t need to say it because kids are so much like a sponge. They can pick up on things, and they can pick up on how people carry themselves and how they interact with others and the social standing and how they connect with others.

clay moffat [00:28:17]:
And so we are shaping these kids based off all of us. And the leakage comes through. So you might put on this brave front. Not saying you specifically, Tim, so we’re clear, right? You, in the general sense, all our listeners, everyone might put on this brave front when you are facing the camera, but when you step out of the camera, your standards drop. You relax, you don’t really care. You don’t shave, you don’t do this, whatever. And so there’s two different standards. And kids will pick up on that leakage and they’ll adopt it.

clay moffat [00:28:51]:
Because from everything I’ve read and from everything that I’ve studied and from my training in the military, I’ve seen it time and time again that when the pressure’s on, you don’t rise to this occasion. You drop to the level of your conditioning, level of your training, whatever you want to call it level of your systems. And it’s what we do as a natural byproduct of human who we are. So if you have these two different identities, one on camera, one off camera, then you can put on the show for a bit of time. But after time it is going to leak and what’s really there and what’s really underneath is going to come out. And that’s why you can have people in the honeymoon period for the first three months. Like, this person’s amazing. They’re fantastic.

clay moffat [00:29:34]:
There’s nothing wrong with them. Then after three months, like, hang on a sec, what’s going on here?

Tim Newman [00:29:38]:
Yeah, yeah. And so I don’t know how long you’ve been married. I’ve been married almost 30 years and still finding things that are coming out that either we’ve blocked out and you talk a little bit about this in your book, which we’ll get to again. We’re going to get to it for our listeners. You talk about that in your book. We block it out. Not that it wasn’t always there. We’ve just decided that it wasn’t there.

Tim Newman [00:30:07]:
We blocked it out. We, we put that blinder on until. Wow, it’s, it’s really kind of smacked in the face and how we deal with that. But we’ll, we’ll talk to that in a second. But, but it just, that just made me, made me chuckle and, and how that actually relates to, to some of those other things. But, but you’re, you’re absolutely, you’re absolutely right. I, I think the, the idea of they, they see us and, and they’re, they’re as kids, they see us and they’re more perceptive than we think know or want them to be for good or for bad. It just is.

Tim Newman [00:30:42]:
And they go in and, and start to develop some of those same, same traits or characteristics of let’s just say the negative self talk. Like, like you mentioned you have with your dad. That I have with, with. So, so I have with my father. I have with. You know, it’s, that’s just, I wouldn’t say it’s normal, but it’s, it’s what is kind of evolved to be.

clay moffat [00:31:13]:
I think you’re right. It’s normal.

Tim Newman [00:31:14]:
Normal.

clay moffat [00:31:14]:
It’s perfectly normal. And I’m going to screw up my kid. No disrespect to your daughter. She’s going to make mistakes with her kids. Like everyone’s going to pass on things that we wish that we wouldn’t and wish that we couldn’t.

Tim Newman [00:31:25]:
Yeah.

clay moffat [00:31:26]:
But the truth of it is, unless you’re perfect, which no one is.

Tim Newman [00:31:29]:
No one is.

clay moffat [00:31:29]:
And even if you were, you’re still not going to be able to predict the exact way that your child’s going to respond to everything.

Tim Newman [00:31:37]:
You’re.

clay moffat [00:31:38]:
Right. And so you’ve got no clue of like the, you can just do the best thing that you can.

Tim Newman [00:31:43]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:31:43]:
One of the biggest lessons I ever learned was that as I’m growing up, I’m watching my parents growing up.

Tim Newman [00:31:51]:
Yes.

clay moffat [00:31:53]:
And as soon as I became a parent, I’m like, yeah, my parents don’t have figured out. They’ve got it more figured out than me, but they’re making it up as they go along. Just like I’m making up as I go along.

Tim Newman [00:32:04]:
Exactly.

clay moffat [00:32:05]:
And I’m not going to get it right. So probably the, the biggest difference is I’ve actually sat down with both my kids and had that conversation with them and I said, look, I’ve been a dad as long as you’ve been a son or a daughter or a daughter. Right, Right. And I’m still, I’m figuring out as much as being a dad as you are figuring out as being a son as we go along. And I am going to make mistakes and I’m going to screw things up and I apologize for that now. But I’m going to be doing the best that I can with what I’ve got. And that’s not to make an excuse to say, hey, I’m going to make your life hell just for the fun of it. It’s to tell you like the reality of it.

clay moffat [00:32:40]:
Like, I am still growing up right now and I’m going to make mistakes and people are going to make mistakes and it’s perfectly fine.

Tim Newman [00:32:47]:
And it’s, it’s good for them to actually see that, to, to see somebody that they love and care about, that’s an authority figure owning who they are and owning mistakes, owning the good and the bad and making those adjustments. Right. You know, if, if they, if they see you, let’s just say, for example, some of the things that, that, that I did as a parent and I still do as a parent, overreact to things, you know, over punish or I don’t over punish my adult kids anymore because I mean, what am I gonna do, you know, but, but you know, when their kids are over punish or, or overreact and you know, I would go back and tell them, look, you know, a lot of times when I overreact like that is because you’ve scared me.

clay moffat [00:33:34]:
Right.

Tim Newman [00:33:34]:
You You, I’m. I’m scared you’re gonna get hurt or you’re going to put yourself in a position that I can’t help you. Those types of things. And when they see that, you know, as, as kids, they see you a little bit differently. But even as, let’s just say a co worker, a friend, a boss, whatever, they see that. Okay, wow. It’s okay to actually, you know, take ownership of what you’ve done and correct it.

clay moffat [00:34:03]:
Absolutely. It’s a valuable lesson.

Tim Newman [00:34:10]:
So what are some, some blind spots in. That kind of hinder us as, as we, as we build effective relationships? Because again, you know, we, we just touched on it a little bit. You know, things. There are things that, that our partners have, that our friends have, that our significant others are, are employers have that we just kind of think aren’t there, but, but they’re there. We just choose not to see them. What are some of those things and how do they actually hinder the growth of relationships?

clay moffat [00:34:46]:
The blind spots that other people have, the blind spots that we have?

Tim Newman [00:34:50]:
Well, both really, because obviously we don’t want anybody to know that we’re not perfect. Right?

clay moffat [00:34:56]:
That’s fair. That’s the biggest con that’s going around. Right. We don’t want anyone to think that we’re not perfect yet. We know we’re not perfect and everyone else isn’t perfect, but we all pretend like we’re perfect. It’s insane. One of the biggest blind spots that people don’t realize is going to be inevitable until you can start to see the frame in a different way is to understand how the brain works. And the brain works by wanting to commit everything to automatic programs or habits as fast as they can.

clay moffat [00:35:32]:
And so I was venturing down pathways when I was reading up about emotions. And this is when I was diving into Lisa Feldman Barrett’s stuff and more on surf stuff, Moran, surf stuff, sorry. And a bunch of other research. And I started to connect with it. And I used to say a lot of the times that I was an angry person. So I’m saying that past tense. But back then I used to say I’m an angry person. And what I’ve started to recognize and reading through neuroscience and let’s research on things like that is that I was not.

clay moffat [00:36:06]:
However, I had exercised those circuits inside my brain very quickly that it was very easy for me to get into anger because I’d rehearsed it so much. So it became a default response to things. That doesn’t necessarily make me an angry person. That makes Me, someone that’s well practiced and well versed in the skill of anger. And so I started looking at things as emotions and emotions as being skills. So you could start to train yourself to have the skill of confidence. You can train yourself to have the skill of anxiety. And one of the things when I talk to people with anxiety, I say, look, you’ve actually got one of the biggest superpowers that you just don’t understand it.

clay moffat [00:36:41]:
You haven’t learned to train it properly. Because if you can create such a vivid imagination in your mind that you’re giving a visceral response in such a negative way, then when you start creating those vivid outcomes about good things, you’re going to be unstoppable because you’re going to have this amazing, intense visualization process to connect you to these amazing goals and instill these positive things. So the biggest blind spot is these labels that we create for ourselves through this mechanism of shortcutting everything, where we put all this label in, and then we start creating this permanent feature about ourselves or about someone else. And so we create this, that this is a confidence person, this is a goofy person, this is a stupid person, this is a smart person, this is a whatever. And then that itself starts to create this lens through which we view that person. And when the lens doesn’t match up to what we’re looking for, we start to make excuses for that person as to, oh, no, that doesn’t. No, that. So let’s say we do the inverse.

clay moffat [00:37:42]:
Let’s say we frame someone as a stupid person, and then they go and do something really smart like, oh, that was just luck. Yeah, they just had a lucky day. That was just luck. Exactly Right. And the inverse of that, we frame someone as a smart person, they do something really stupid, we don’t go, now they’re stupid. First we go, no, they’re a smart person. They just had a bad day. They just had an off day.

Tim Newman [00:38:03]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:38:04]:
And so it goes both ways. Right. And it really depends on the frame and what we’ve got locked inside our head as to how that would manifest as a problem or an issue or if it does at all.

Tim Newman [00:38:16]:
Yeah. And it’s funny how quickly we make those decisions, too.

clay moffat [00:38:26]:
Those decisions are made pretty quick, though. Having said that, for some people, it’s much faster than others. So for some people, they get this instant connection where they create this process for someone, and then once it’s locked in, it takes a lot of evidence in the contrary to snap that reality. Some people, it takes a bit of time and there are some people who will take continuous reinforcement for you to hold that position. So how do you know that someone’s good at something? Oh, they, they keep showing up in this way. And I see their quality of work maintains this standard. Oh, like forever. Yeah.

clay moffat [00:39:06]:
Because when they’re not hitting that standard anymore, then I know they’re no longer good at it.

Tim Newman [00:39:11]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:39:12]:
So it really depends on how the person interprets information inside their brain. And there’s multiple ways that they do.

Tim Newman [00:39:19]:
You know, and I, I guess I’m, I’m looking at it from, from a perspective of, let’s, let’s just say careers.

clay moffat [00:39:25]:
Yep.

Tim Newman [00:39:27]:
A lawyer, you know, we look at a lawyer. Well, we know they’re a good lawyer, a personal injury lawyer if, if they’re continuously getting multi million dollar judgments, we know they’re a good lawyer. If they, if they’re convicted.

clay moffat [00:39:43]:
Do you though, what if they’re doing dodgy things around the back end?

Tim Newman [00:39:47]:
No, I’m just saying on the surface of things.

clay moffat [00:39:50]:
Right, gotcha. All right. Yep. Fair enough.

Tim Newman [00:39:52]:
You know, so when we, when we see a commercial or a doctor. Oh, this, this guy’s been a doctor for, you know, 30 years. He’s done this number of joint replacements. Oh, he must be good.

clay moffat [00:40:04]:
Absolutely.

Tim Newman [00:40:05]:
So we, so we’re, so we’re not even making judgments on somebody that we know. We’re making judgments on things that we’re seeing that they’ve done or seen things that they put out, saying that they’re good. Good. And then when we go in and we meet with them or interview them or what have you. And I’m just saying doctors and lawyers here as an example, we’ve already got an impression of them in our heads. And the first thing out of their, out of their mouth when we say, oh, yeah, this is the person, they’re right. He is really good. Whether, I mean, he, he could be saying things that aren’t good, but I mean, we’ve already made up our minds that this is the person.

clay moffat [00:40:46]:
Yeah, absolutely. That can happen. If you get multiple sources telling you that someone’s good, it can happen. If you see them doing something, not that they’re doing something with you, but you see them do something with someone else, it can happen.

Tim Newman [00:40:59]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:40:59]:
There’s multiple ways to create those frames. And once those frames created, it is usually pretty difficult for someone to break it. And they will filter all the information about that person through those lenses.

Tim Newman [00:41:09]:
Yeah. And then I guess take, let’s take it another step forward. When, when you, when you’re hiring somebody and, you know, somebody recommends them, right? So, like, if. If I’m hiring somebody and I talk to my friend, I say, do you know anybody who can fill this position for me? And they’re going to say, yeah, yeah, this person is really good. Okay. So that. That person, without even meeting them, talking to them, or seeing the resume or any of their work product, we already have an impression of them.

clay moffat [00:41:41]:
And you mean, like if you were to hire a friend of yours to build an app and then that ended up imploding and costing you over half a million dollars and you just look like a complete moron, you imploded your company that was doing seven figures? Something like that.

Tim Newman [00:41:55]:
Something like that. Yeah.

clay moffat [00:41:56]:
Yeah. Guilty. Guilty as charged. Yeah. Yep. Happens, man. Happens to everyone. You know, once you put someone in.

clay moffat [00:42:04]:
In a frame as an expert and you’ve seen them do things with other people, but you don’t really get into the nitty gritty of how they’re running things and how they’re doing things, or you do see it, but because you are so, I’ll use this word, very particularly desperate for the outcome that you want to achieve, that you just start ignoring the red flags that start coming up, then you definitely dig yourself a grave very quickly.

Tim Newman [00:42:30]:
Yeah. And I think that’s a common situation, not necessarily the app thing, but like you said, we ignore the red flags. Ignoring the red flags for whether it’s being desperate or whether it’s being blinded by emotion, whatever that reason is, but we know that they’re there. And ignoring them, that’s something that happens all the time.

clay moffat [00:43:00]:
So the reason it happens is because of this dissonance between the mental image we’ve got in our head of who they are and how they’re currently showing up. And so what happens as a result of that is when we create this person as a safe person or as a trustworthy person or as a good person or whatever we are, we now frame all the information that we get in through that process. And. And then to admit to ourselves that it’s different means admitting that we got it wrong.

Tim Newman [00:43:32]:
Right.

clay moffat [00:43:32]:
And the thing of it is, is that we didn’t get it wrong because when we put them into their bracket at that point, that was true. The problem is there’s a failure to update the bracket based on the current information because of the brain’s need to automate and shortcut and turn things into an automatic pattern. So it does, because you imagine, just imagine for a minute that you could not put people into a trust bracket ever again, and you had to constantly assess every single person that you interact with every single day. Could you imagine the amount of cognitive load that you would have on your brain with every single person and every single interaction? You have to pay attention. And the way I talk about it, to make sense of the point is, like, if you drive somewhere and you’re driving there for the first time, the trip seems to take forever. Why? Because you’re fully present. You’re paying attention to every little piece of data to make sure you get the right way. Even with a gps, a lot of people still do this.

Tim Newman [00:44:39]:
Yes.

clay moffat [00:44:39]:
Now, the return trip feels like it’s going like that. Why? Because you already know how to get there. You know how to get home. So you can just drive home and you’re on autopilot for the most of the way. And that’s typically what happens. So when we’re first getting to know someone, it’s like we’re driving to this destination for the first time. We’re paying attention to the whole lot. And once we’ve been there, okay.

clay moffat [00:45:00]:
We’ve been to that destination, they’ve got a good house. When this is a safe place. Okay, we can just drive back home now, and we know that they’re in that place and it’s safe and we’re good to go and we can’t just forget about it.

Tim Newman [00:45:10]:
Right, Right. And. And again, it’s. It’s funny that, that the brain works that way. So. And this past weekend, I was following somebody home to their house, and I know where they live, but I told him I’d follow him. And there were a couple of times that he wasn’t going the correct way, you know, and. And I flashed my lights, I beeped my horn, and he just kept on going.

Tim Newman [00:45:42]:
And I said, okay, I’ll just follow him. He’s like, he’s not going the right way. He must be going somewhere else. I don’t know why he’s doing this. And he did it twice and turned out he. He just goes a different way.

clay moffat [00:45:53]:
Yep. That’s how it is, man.

Tim Newman [00:45:56]:
And. But my. My anxiety level went. Went through the roof. Like, even if he was, let’s just say he’s just going to want to stop the grocery store, whatever, on the way home, whatever. He didn’t tell me about it. Forget, got, whatever. But my anxiety level unnecessarily went.

Tim Newman [00:46:14]:
Went up for no reason.

clay moffat [00:46:16]:
It didn’t go up for no reason. It went up because your predictive errors were going through the roof because you were predicting to go a certain way. And your prediction mechanism was failing massively. And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So your expectations were getting shot like you’re, like you’re on D day stalling the beach, like you’re just getting reefed with bullets and like you’re never going to survive.

Tim Newman [00:46:39]:
But if I had just done what I said I was going to do, I’m just going to follow you with no expectation we’ll have that.

clay moffat [00:46:50]:
Or with the expectation that wherever he went, you were going to follow. Right. It would have been a different outcome.

Tim Newman [00:46:56]:
Exactly, exactly. It’s funny how the brain works and you know, I, I guess this is where I really want to talk, get into talking about your, your, your book. Because number one, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing. I need to say that right, right from the get go. But you know, a little more than six months ago, you know, you were driving and you, you had a problem with your eye, you had a problem with, with vision in your one good eye. And then three months ago almost to the day, you had surgery on the eye. But in between that, that’s when you wrote the book Trust Trap. And you wrote that in 21 days, which to me is amazing.

Tim Newman [00:47:37]:
Can you talk about the process of writing a book that is hard hitting and hitting real life truth in that amount of time going through what you were going through at that time, what was that process for you?

clay moffat [00:47:54]:
The simple approach to that is it was a book that was born out of necessity more than anything else. So I had, I’ve written books before and so we’re clear, they’re just trash, man. I never published it because I’m like, ah, I’m writing this. Like yeah, I wrote it, but I wrote a book just so I could say I’ve written a book and I’m like, this is just junk. Then three, four years ago, I started writing another book. I developed a program called the Yellow Brick code which took the world of neuroscience and psychology and turned it into this mechanism, this process that would teach you how to jack into flow states and get as healthy and optimized and blah, blah, you know, all the biohacking, neurohacking, flow hacking, blah blah, blah, except insert all the hackings, time hacking I suppose you could throw in there too, identity hacking and throw it all in together and create this like programs create a transformation. But there was so much information in that system and in that program that you could take it like six times and you’d still be struggling to implement all the stuff. And it was, it was A beast.

clay moffat [00:49:05]:
And I tried to turn that into a book and I hired a book writing coach and it was just no good. I didn’t like it because I’d write, okay, this is my chapter. And he’d go back and he’d edit and send it back to me. Like, this is junk, man. I don’t like this. Like this. It doesn’t mesh, it doesn’t feel like me, it doesn’t sound like me. He’s like, yeah, but this is the good.

clay moffat [00:49:21]:
I’m like, I don’t care if it’s good. Doesn’t sound like me. So I’d already had an experience of A, writing something that was horrible, B, writing something that I thought was good, that I kept getting back with what sounded good but didn’t sound like me. So I had those two experiences then. Then when it came to my impending surgery which could leave me blind in the right eye, was this the same surgery that left me blind in my left eye 15 years ago? I realized that, okay, there’s a couple of things at play here. One, I’ve been on this journey now for over a decade, probably around about 15 years that I’ve been into self development. About 12 years professionally now, three years, just me going through this process. And that wasn’t self development, that was just me going down.

clay moffat [00:50:10]:
An egotistical victimhood idea of how I’m going to learn to manipulate, influence and control people. Which was just hilarious considering where it’s ended up. But I’ve got this knowledge and there’s a very real chance it’s going to be extremely difficult for me to coach people if a, I can’t see, I’m going to need someone else to set up the calls, I’m going to need someone else to take the calls. I’m going to need someone else to manage basically everything. And the only thing I’m going to be able to do is to rock up on calls and coach people, which is fine. But I could see like it was going to be extremely taxing on a lot of people. So when the surgery date got set, there was a wave of relief because I found the surgeon. I knew what the issue was, I knew what we were going to do.

clay moffat [00:50:54]:
And there was a deep apprehension that had been building because I was very much aware that this could actually be the last time that I ever get to coach people. So I had the opportunity to write one book. And if I could write one book, what was a book that I thought could help the most people and be a self contained unit that when I put it out there would help people and would give them a result that if you read the book, like if you read the COVID you read the back cover, it does what it says on the COVID It does what it says on the back cover. Okay, I know what I’m getting. This is going to get there. So it was one to a still we have used to the world in case I lost my sight. It was two away to condense 15 years of work so it wouldn’t go to waste. And three, it was about having a legacy and still having a way to be able to contribute to the wealth of my family and my kids and doing things like that.

clay moffat [00:51:55]:
So I had a very visceral drive to write something and create something that was exceptional because I knew if I didn’t wasn’t going to sell, it wasn’t going to go out there, people weren’t going to buy it, it was a waste of time. So I had to write something that delivered a punch and the way I, I had a goal in mind that it was going to be written so that if someone had never met me in person, they would be able to read it and it would feel like a very, very intense coaching session with me. And the feedback I got from a lot of people that have read it, that have been clients of mine, it’s like I heard your voice in my head the whole time and it’s just like being coached by you. So I got that. So that was a huge amount of feedback. I was very, very happy to hear that.

Tim Newman [00:52:47]:
We, you know, you and I talked a little bit about it. You know, I started reading and it’s, it’s. It’s going to hit you in the face and you need to, when you read it, sit with it. Don’t just, don’t just read it. Like, like it’s writing a book. You need, you need to read the book and let it sit with you and think, think on it and, and truly absorb, you know, what you’re saying. Because I, like I told you, I think you’re really spot on with what you’re saying and how we, how we approach things, some of the things that we talked about today. But you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a much.

Tim Newman [00:53:30]:
It’s a different way of approaching things and I think a more realistic and beneficial way for us to approach things if we want to move forward and not be worried about the idea of dishonesty or betrayal or those types of things going back to that extreme ownership, whole idea. What’s our role in it. How are we playing a role in our own lives? What’s our role in that?

clay moffat [00:54:04]:
And that’s a huge part of it, A part that I think a lot of people don’t understand. In marketing. They always talk about making it not the prospect’s fault. Right. That’s the big thing they always push in online marketing. Now the cool thing about this is, is that I didn’t create some piece of crap jargon thing to explain why it’s not your fault. Like, this is literal mechanisms that happen inside your brain that is based from the perfect storm of evolution and neuroscience and language all coming together to create this mechanism inside our brain that basically plays us for fools. So it’s not your fault.

clay moffat [00:54:45]:
However, as I always say, it’s your damn responsibility if you want to do something about it. You can’t pass the butt to someone else. You have to take it on board yourself. And if you’re not prepared to do that, if you’re not prepared to take any kind of responsibility towards it, this book is not going to be for you. You’re going to hate it. You’re going to like want to burn it. And that’s fine. Like I’m perfectly fine if you want to do that.

clay moffat [00:55:10]:
But I’m telling you right now, if you’re not prepared to look through it and go, you know what, let me go into this in a way to see like how I contributed to every part of this in my life, then you’re going to find a very, very painful journey for 253 pages.

Tim Newman [00:55:32]:
Yeah. Read the forward. I think the forward really kind of tells you exactly what you’re going to get. And you. I think there are a lot of books out there that when you, when you read the front matter of them, it’s, it’s a lot of fluff. It’s a lot of this is great. This is, you know, it’s a wonderful book, blah, blah, blah. But the forward on your book by, by Chase Hughes is probably one of the best I’ve ever read.

Tim Newman [00:56:04]:
And this is actually what you’re going to get when you read the book. What’s in this is what’s in it. If you sit with it, if you, if you truly read it and digest it, this is what you’re going to get.

clay moffat [00:56:16]:
It’s awesome. Yeah. Chase is a mentor of mine and a good friend and I have a world of respect for that man. He’s helped me in a lot of ways and there’s. Yeah, he’s just, just an all around. Great guy. When I was writing the book or even considering writing the book, he has helped me with the body language side of things so much that it’s just instrumental to my understanding of body language, which covers in like the last quarter of the book, we start going through language analysis and non verbals and paying attention so you can start reading behavior and spotting this misalignment as it’s happening. So that your brain has, your conscious mind has the ammunition to back up and connect the red flags with actually being red flags.

clay moffat [00:57:15]:
So you can’t talk yourself out of them. It’s not to make you paranoid, it’s not to make you conceited. It’s purely to give your conscious mind ammunition. It needs that it is currently lacking so that you can’t just go, oh, that’s okay. That’s not that perfect person. No, that is that person because that’s how they’re showing up right now. And you are basing that’s not them because that’s how they not been in the past. Now pay attention to how the data is showing up right now because that’s the whole point of it, just to give you the data and to give you the, the strategy.

clay moffat [00:57:47]:
So you go, okay, I see what’s happening. Right, no worries. We’re diverging or we’re aligning. And you can start to track how the process, process of this relationship, basically how you want to be relating to this person now is in effect either working for both of you going in the same direction or you start to veer off in different directions.

Tim Newman [00:58:06]:
Right?

clay moffat [00:58:08]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:58:09]:
And, and it could be different, you know, you know, it could be friends in one situation and, and, and co workers or employee, employer, and in one and two different situations, two different types of interactions. And knowing that and being able to separate, that is also so important.

clay moffat [00:58:31]:
Absolutely. So what I got from a friend of mine who’s a very successful online entrepreneur, she sent me a message and she said, I’m so sorry it took me so long to read the book. I usually read books extremely fast. I read your book so slowly because you’ve read, you’ve referenced Daniel Kenneman, you’ve referenced Maran Surf, you’ve referenced like a lot of people and then people that she didn’t know about because she hasn’t gone into the psychology in the same way that I have. But her response and came back to me, she goes, you know what your book gave me? He said, nope, but I definitely want to find out. She said, you gave me permission to trust myself. Again, like actually trust myself. I’m like, perfect.

clay moffat [00:59:21]:
I said, because that’s the idea. Because when you can get back and actually have full unbridled self trust, now you become powerful, now you become unstoppable because you can connect, you can make decisions, you can trust those decisions, you can know that’s the best decision for you in the moment. You get rid of self doubt, you get rid of all the dramas and you start to then fulfill the role and fulfill the best capabilities that you have. And that was one of the nicest things that people have said because the book is supposed to be a path for liberation for people. It’s not a path to allow you to go and find yourself in another relationship searching for love, right? Because for me, a lot of people say, well, what about self love? I’m like, well, let’s look from this way. If you can look in the mirror and say, you know what? I can trust myself completely, I would say then you’re doing pretty well with regard to self love because that is complete self acceptance. If you can trust yourself completely, trust all the decisions that you’re making, trust that you’re moving forward in the right direction, you’re well on the way to getting what you want in life.

Tim Newman [01:00:35]:
Well, Clay, thank you so much for. Where can people connect with you?

clay moffat [01:00:41]:
The best place is simple X. I’m on X almost every day. It’s at Moffatt Clay, M O F F A T C L A Y. Or email me [email protected] awesome.

Tim Newman [01:00:55]:
I’ll put those in the show notes. And when you say that kind of made me laugh because I was listening to another show that you were on and you were talking about. And this part isn’t the funny part where you were in, in Houston in jail and the, and oh yeah, move hat and move hat. I just made me laugh maybe. And, and the host said it was a key and peel type thing. A, A Ron, that’s just maybe obviously not laughing that you were in jail.

clay moffat [01:01:29]:
But I was laughing, man. It was hilarious. That was, that was like the creme de la creme of my victimhood status. Right. Like everyone else had created the situation. It wasn’t the fact that I had a lot of demons. It wasn’t the fact that I had gone and got drunk. It was the fact that all this other junk, to be fair, I was extremely grateful for the fact that that all got resolved.

clay moffat [01:01:53]:
I was extremely grateful for the fact that all charges were dropped and people just put it down to me being a drunk idiot. In the wrong place at the wrong time. Exceptionally grateful for that. But, yeah, that was one of the funniest moments in my life, because I’m standing there, I’ve made bail, and I’m sitting there, and this guy’s saying, how. Hey, Mofat. Mo fat.

Tim Newman [01:02:20]:
I’m like, what?

clay moffat [01:02:23]:
He said, if you don’t answer me now, Mofat, you’re spending that. I’m like, do you mean Moffat Clayton? Don’t be as smart. Like, it’s literally like that campaign. Don’t be as smart us with me. I’m like, all right, yep, that’s me. And then gotta go. So that’s awesome.

Tim Newman [01:02:37]:
That’s awesome. Yeah. Well, at least there’s. There you can find some humor in some of the things. And. And to me, that’s. That’s a. That’s a big deal.

Tim Newman [01:02:47]:
I. If I’m not having fun, I think I’m doing it wrong.

clay moffat [01:02:51]:
So anyway, there’s a lot of humor in a lot of the dumb stuff that I’ve done. I just kind of laugh at myself. I’m like, what were you thinking?

Tim Newman [01:03:01]:
Exactly.

clay moffat [01:03:01]:
So, you know, and it’s fine.

Tim Newman [01:03:03]:
It’s been there, done that, and. And, you know, just.

clay moffat [01:03:07]:
And sold all the T shirts as well.

Tim Newman [01:03:09]:
Exactly. Well, Clay, thanks so much for spending some time with us. I really do appreciate it, and take care, and we’ll talk to you soon.

clay moffat [01:03:18]:
I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Tim Newman [01:03:22]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, the Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome them. You can also register for the form for public speaking course. Always remember, your voice is a power change. Lord. Talk to you next time. Take care.