Mastering Body Language and Authenticity in Public Speaking: Insights from Rachael Edmondson-Clarke

Tim Newman [00:00:09]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on a journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today, we’ve got a historical episode for you. Today we’ve got Rachel Edmondson Clark back with us. I’m sure you all remember she was on with us last month, and she’s only the second person to have a second episode with us. So, Rachel, thank you so much for spending some time with us again today. I’m looking forward to kind of finishing up what we started a couple weeks ago.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:00:51]:
Tim, I’m so excited to be back with you, and thank you for having me on the show. I feel incredibly privileged to be only the second person to appear in your episodes twice, so thank you for having me on.

Tim Newman [00:01:05]:
Oh, you’ve got. You’ve got such a great story, and, you know, you’re such a personable person, and the way you share your stories and the way that you share information to help and add value to the listeners, it’s. It’s. It. It makes me happy, makes my heart happy. And I’m sure that it comes across because, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about this. It doesn’t really matter what we do. I think it’s our responsibility to make sure that we’re providing value to the people that we’re serving.

Tim Newman [00:01:35]:
It’s not about us. It’s about helping them reach their goals and reach what they want to do.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:01:40]:
Oh, absolutely. And when it’s about something more than ourselves, it feels a lot more meaningful and rewarding. I think so.

Tim Newman [00:01:50]:
Absolutely.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:01:51]:
Heart, Tim. It’s so clear and obvious to me.

Tim Newman [00:01:55]:
Thank you. So let’s pick up kind of where we left off. You know, we didn’t really get to talk too much about the communication piece and. And how important that is in professional growth and personal growth and what that actually does for us in terms of sharing our message. And we did talk a little bit about, you know, you started your career in your mom’s beauty salon.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:02:20]:
I did, I did, yes.

Tim Newman [00:02:24]:
So talk about that from the communication piece, because you were. How old were you? Were you. You were 13? 14?

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:02:30]:
Very. Yeah, I was. I was. I was young. I started at the age of 12.

Tim Newman [00:02:34]:
12, okay. Yeah.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:02:36]:
12 to 21, pretty much. Of course, at 12, I was sweeping the floors. I was making teas and coffees. So it was A hair and beauty salon. And by the age of 14, I’d said to my mum, you know, gosh, I really am bored of making teas and coffees and sweeping the floor up. Can you please train me to do something else? And so the thing that was most obvious was going to be the reception. And it was a busy salon, so we had over 300 clients a week. We would have, I think, more than 20 staff, and I would be on reception all day on a Saturday, which was an incredibly busy day for the salon back then, and so be managing multiple stylists columns for all of their work, as well as, you know, a large volume of clients coming in from 8:30 in the morning right through up until 7pm in the evening.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:03:29]:
I had two telephone lines. So it was. It was the days before the Internet when people would phone up for their hair appointments. But that meant that I would sometimes be juggling two telephone lines that would be ringing and sometimes a sea of people in front of that reception desk, as well as the needs of the stylists and the other members of staff working around me. So I would say I, yes, I had to learn pretty quickly how to deal with the public, how to get the best out of the team that I was helping to kind of, I suppose I was orchestrating things in many, many respects and to balance all of that.

Tim Newman [00:04:13]:
And so what was your big takeaway from that point? Because I’m sure that at that age you’re. I wouldn’t say you’re scared or petrified, but you obviously don’t want to make mistakes because it’s your mom. You don’t want to let your mom down, but you know the importance of it. So what was one of the takeaways that you came away with?

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:04:34]:
Well, I don’t know that I would have said this straight away, but looking back at that time now, I think one of the things that I learned to do quite instinctively, and we do all naturally do this, but was to read people’s body language and pick up on their energy and vibration. So where the reception desk was for the salon, there were two glass doors, one to the outside, then a slight, you know, a very short hallway or corridor and then a second door with glass. So I used to catch people as they were walking in through that first door and it would give me a few seconds to learn to read their body language and make some assessment of how they were by the time they’d got to the front of my desk and bear in mind, I might have been doing something else at that time I could well have had two telephones, one on each ear, talking to people and I’d also be, you know, eye out for them or somebody coming around who was coming to, to pay or perhaps someone who’d been sat waiting in reception or a member of the team coming towards me. I really needed to be very vigilant and hypersensitive to like where are these people at? So that I could match and mirror with their energy if someone was coming in looking a bit, you know, flustered and, and stressed and like they needed dealing with quickly, you know, that my, my, you know, I would, I, I would, I would play, I would play that back. If somebody looked like they needed some empathy or some like a cup of tea and calming down then I would, I would help with that. So it’s that reading of the non verbal communication. I think I really was able to build a sensitivity through that role.

Tim Newman [00:06:29]:
Yeah, I’m glad you brought that point up because it’s so important. Body language tells us things before we even open our mouths, before they open their mouths. And I used to joke, and I still joke with my kids on this. I’ve got two daughters and they’re older now. I could tell when they came down the steps in the morning, get ready for school whether I should talk to them or not or whether what, what I should say or what I shouldn’t say. And I could, I could tell almost immediately and took me a little bit to, to get to that point. But you know, if, if you can notice those things and, and, and I joke about that but, but in reality is, is if you can notice those things in the people that you’re dealing with, that’s, that’s a big piece of building trust and, and building the, that connection so that you can, you can actually have that conversation or meet their needs without going through a bunch of other stuff.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:07:25]:
Ah, absolutely. And it’s reminding ourselves, isn’t it, that only 7% of our communication is the words that we use. The other 93% of communication is how we say it. So through our tone of voice and our nonverbal and our non verbal communication. And, and I think that’s something to be mindful of in today’s world where we send a lot of WhatsApp or text messages or emails that so much of, so much of the meaning behind that communication is lost in that, in that, in that written word. So, and the other thing that I think you, you, you, you talking there as well is that you, you, you link this quite rightly back to trust because we are very good at reading people as human beings. And when somebody is masking something or they’re not being congruent with what they’re saying and their body language, they’re telling you that they really believe in something, but actually their body language is suggesting doubt. You’re going, you’re not going to build trust with that individual.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:08:43]:
So, you know, being congruent is also, I think, really important.

Tim Newman [00:08:48]:
It, it is because I liken it back to, to be an educator. You know, if I’m standing in front of a class or if I’m standing in front of an audience or doing a keynote or a team meeting, if I’m not being honest, if I’m not being authentic, they’re going to see through it really, really quick. It doesn’t take long. And whatever trust or whatever authority you’ve built can be lost in seconds by not being congruent.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:09:27]:
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Tim Newman [00:09:30]:
So you go from working in your mom’s salon and then you, you get to the point where you’re the president, vice president of the Professional Speaking Association Association, United Kingdom in Ireland. What’s walk us through your career from, from that perspective, because I think that’s one, I think, I think it’s awesome because, you know, you go from, you know, a 12 year old to leading an organization that is so important in terms of how we, of how we get things done right. Communication is so important. And now you’re leading that organization. How did that process happen?

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:10:10]:
Oh, gosh. Well, there’s a lot of time. I’m an old fogey now, Tim. So yes, there’s a lot of life that’s been lived, a lot of experience that’s been gained along that journey. But a very quick rundown was that I sort of. So I finished university when I was 21, 22 and went into my first role, which included some fantastic training on presenting with impact. Because my first role out of university, I went to work for Mars and I used to sell their vending machines around the Midlands area in the uk and presenting with impact, if you’re selling, was a really key part of, of the role. And in fact I still have to this day the little framework that they gave us.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:11:09]:
I’ve got it in a tiny little laminated card and still put my hands on it now underneath my desk here, right where I’m sat. And if you’re, if you’re, if your listeners would like to see that, I am more than happy to take a photograph of that because I still use some of those Very simple practices, practices around how do we structure really good presentations. I still use it today, so it’s very old, but it’s very treasured and very loved and I’m happy to take a picture of that and share that with the listeners.

Tim Newman [00:11:39]:
Oh, please do, please do so. I will do that because it doesn’t really matter. I mean, those tried and true principles last forever, right? I mean, there’s nothing really new.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:11:52]:
No, no, it’s, you know, really, really good, really, really good, really good stuff. And I think the other thing just to share from a speaking perspective is that whilst I was growing up, I was also part of an amateur dramatics society. So I really loved doing the stage in the theater and I’m sure that helped in some respects when I started in the corporate world because I moved from sales eventually into marketing and then as in those in the marketing roles that I did not only at Mars, but also at another chocolate company in the UK called Thorntons. And I ultimately became the head of product strategy for them, where I was having to present on a regular basis, whether that be ideas to the board and to the exec team, or whether it be selling ideas in from a brand change perspective, new products ideas to sometimes 300 members of the factory team that were going to be executing it. And so you wanted them to have the same level of care and compassion and, and passion, sorry, not compassion and passion for what they were doing. And so that, you know, that, that, that was that. I think my, some of my prior experience was helpful for that. I always remember just one little story.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:13:24]:
I had been working on a brand relaunch for the biggest brand in the company and I really wanted to engage with everybody across the business with the launch. And so I had turned up at the factory at 6 o’ clock in the morning to be able to present to those that were starting their shift at that time. And all I could do was to present was to beam some slides up onto a really big blank wall in the factory. And I remember at just before 6 o’, clock, all these people descending into the factory in their white coats and hair nets and coming towards me, it was like a sea of people. There was so many people and for a, for a moment it felt like I was back on those stages again when I was doing the amateur dramatics and you know, those really big stage lights with the, you know, with the flaps that direct the light. I felt like this light was like totally on me as all these people were coming towards me. And I had this slight moment of, of Panic and dread and thinking, oh, my gosh, how am I going to do this? And then this was the metaphor that I use. And it’s helped me so many times since in speaking, instead of thinking of that stage light on me, because that’s how it felt in that moment.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:14:51]:
It was like I. It was like I turned it round and I pointed it on that audience. And I said to myself, in that moment, and I don’t even know where this came from. Came from, but in that moment I said to myself, this isn’t about me. This is about these people that are showing up here, six o’ clock in the morning. And this is about me connecting with them in a way that they can feel as passionate about this as. As I do, right? And all of a sudden, it didn’t become about me, it became about my connection with those people that were in front of me. And all of a sudden, all that fear, all that dread, it all just disappeared.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:15:26]:
Because now it’s just me making connection and talking to each, each one of them. And I’ll never forget, I’ll never forget going into the factory several months later and we’d been. We’d been making. So these were assorted chocolates, so in really beautiful chocolate boxes. And they. And one of the things that the team in the factory had to do was to hand position a bow, a beautiful, A beautiful ribbon on the box. And I can remember somebody calling me over, saying, rachel, Rachel, am I getting this bow in just the right place? And she wanted to check with me that she was getting it right. And I was like, this is brilliant.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:16:10]:
This is several months after I’ve done that presentation. And she’s, you know, she’s still thinking and wanting to make sure. Can I just check, is this right? Are you happy? And. Yeah, just beautiful.

Tim Newman [00:16:23]:
And I love that, I love that because it’s such an illustration that I think people truly, truly forget. And especially in that situation, the people that are a brand’s biggest cheerleaders and supporters are those frontline workers. They take such pride in their products or services, and they’re the ones that are doing this by word of mouth when they go home. They’re talking about all these things that are going on and the quality of the product, and they own that internally. And you made them feel like they belonged, like they were truly a fabric of the organization and their role truly, truly mattered in how the customers viewed and consumed the product.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:17:11]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was critical to me that, that there was that level of engagement which hadn’t been done in a really long time in the organization. And I think, as you say, it’s so, so, so important. And, and fast forward, you know, on from, on from that, oh gosh, another another 10 years, perhaps even more. To be honest, maybe more like 12. And I find myself out of corporate world. I started my own training and coaching business and I, I happen to meet a wonderful lady who we go out for hot chocolate for and she’s the current vice president of the Professional Speaking association. And she tells me about this wonderful organization and I think to myself, well, if I’m on my feet and I’m delivering training, there’s got to be a thing or two these professional speakers can teach me about how I can better communicate with my training.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:18:22]:
And I’m interested to learn. I’m a perpetual student and always learning. And I would say, albeit that, and I know Tim, you’ll feel the same way me with, I mean, I’m here just sharing some experiences, but by no means do I know it all. And there are just some things I’ve picked up along the way that I’m very happy to share. And so that was how I got invited into the Professional Speaking association. And a little over two years later, I found myself running the East Midlands region.

Tim Newman [00:18:55]:
That’s awesome. I mean, it’s, it’s. But you, you bring up a, a critical piece that I talk about a lot and that’s that whole idea of continuous learning. And I spoke with somebody yesterday about, you know, she was telling a story about how she knows somebody who’s going to get more degrees. This, that and the other thing. That’s great, I’m not, you know, just discounting that, but we can be continuous learners and getting better at our craft every day, whatever it is that we’re doing. And I think it’s important that I try and stress with my listeners. I kind of take them on some of the journeys that I go on to be a better speaker, to be a better communicator, to be a better podcast host.

Tim Newman [00:19:35]:
And like one of the things that I’m working on now with a coach is telling three minute stories, taking a story that has meaning or has a purpose that I may take five minutes or have been taking five or six minutes to tell to getting it down to a succinct three minute story so that it really comes across, so the point comes across quickly and I don’t lose that audience, you know, so those, that, that’s what one of the things I’m working on now. But those are things that can Happen by, by joining, like I said, the Professional Speakers Association. So what were some of the things that you learned and was there anything in there that you really found fascinating about that process.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:20:23]:
Though? There are many. So I’m still part of the Professional Speaking association and I’m still learning so much. I think back to your point around learning as, as well is that you’ve got to put it into practice. It’s great. You get fabulous ideas, you see people that are doing things. But if you’re not actually practicing these things. Going back to that Presenting with Impact course, right at the start of my career, I can remember one of the most uncomfortable things that they made us do as young 20 somethings was video us doing a presentation and then to watch it back, I mean toe curlingly, oh uncomfortable. However, when we do these things, when we actually put it into practice and we start to, to experience that in our, in our, in our, in our bodies, that’s when it really kind of hits home.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:21:20]:
And the Professional Speaking association has given me a wonderful platform to be able to practice. The first thing that I did was that I signed up for a competition that they run. Actually. It’s called the Speaker Factor.

Tim Newman [00:21:35]:
Well, I’m so glad you brought that up because I saw the video. I saw that. I did. You did. You did a phenomenal, phenomenal job with that. You, you truly, truly did.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:21:48]:
Oh, thank you so much. Well, do you know, that was. The truth is that was the product of months of hard work. So just for the listeners listening in, the Speaker Factor is a very odd animal in many ways because you have five minutes to tell your story, to speak about something that you care about to the audience which, and your audience are professional speakers, you know, they are your peers and in many respects that, you know, if public speaking is something that you’re scared of anyway, imagine doing it to a bunch of people who are, that’s actually what they do professionally for their career. And they’re going to judge you on it. Yeah, kind of. There’s another level of, of uncomfortableness though, I think for, for many, for many of us when we first start out. But it’s a very warm and welcoming organization and the, the feedback and things is dealt with very, very, very well.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:22:53]:
So they would judge you on things like your, your stagecraft and your storytelling and your bookability and this. So to start with, there’s regional heats and then each region has a winner and those winners from the 12 regional heats go through to the finals. And the year that I did make it through to the Final. We were actually hosting the Global Speakers Summit. So the Professional Speaking association in the UK and Ireland is a feature affiliated to the Global Speaking association. Or, and, and, and we were, we were hosting the, the Global Speakers Summit that year in Dublin. And so we had people from, we had professional speakers from all around the world watching the final. So that video is of me at the, at the Global Speakers Summit in Dublin several years ago.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:23:51]:
And as I say, it really was the product of many, many months of hard work of thinking about how you could really convey something of value within what is a relatively short space of time to be on stage talking in that way. And it was the, it was one of the best things that I have done in recent years. So back to that, putting it into practice, having a go. If you are thinking that you want to speak more confidently, then get out there and do it. Find the opportunities. There are organizations and associations that are desperate for people to come and talk to them about things, whether it’s the WI or, you know, whether it could be a scout, you know, group or. There are, there’s so many people that would welcome somebody who’s passionate about a topic or a subject to be going and talking to them. So just get out there and practice.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:24:48]:
Right?

Tim Newman [00:24:49]:
Right. And that’s the key. You don’t get better by not doing it. You only get better by doing it. And even if you think that you’re not good, you’re going to get better by doing it because you’re, even if you don’t have somebody telling you, you’re going to be able to tell what you need to work on. A lot of times, I would say for me, four years ago, I didn’t think stagecraft had really any business in, in what I was doing. I, I didn’t even think about it until, you know, somebody said, you know, your message would come across so much better if you would do this and stop doing this, you know, and, and it comes, you know, for me, somebody who’s, who’s, I’m a creature of habit that, that, that’s work change, changing something that I, that just comes natural to be able to convey my message more. I went kicking and screaming down the road doing it, but I did it.

Tim Newman [00:25:43]:
And they were right. But it’s things like that, learning things, learning how to connect with people. You’re going to do that just by getting out there and talking to people. It’s going to happen.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:25:57]:
Absolutely. And you know what? I left a bit of a juicy bit out of that story of my, my journey to The Global Speaker Summit and that speaker factor final. So being completely transparent, I’m going to share with you all now that I didn’t win the regional heat. In fact, I got up there and I spoke at the regional heat and I was utterly, utterly disappointed with my performance. I ran over time which for professional speakers is you can’t do it. I was looking at the floor, I was trying to remember what I was going to say. It was awful. Absolutely.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:26:44]:
I could have, I could have crawled into a hole and you know, stayed there for a week. And I was really fortunate in many respects. The guy who won, he wasn’t able to. To go to the final. And so by default the opportunity came to me to represent the region at the final. And so I having that, I think this is the other big lesson I learned so much from. And it wasn’t a failure that that regional heat, but I learned so much about what I needed to do and how I was going to get there. And I had so much incredible support.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:27:30]:
Support right. To really help me up my game. By the time I got to the Global Speakers Summit that, that getting out there, giving it a go. And even if you feel like I did like post performance anxiety, let’s call it that, we’ve all experienced that from time to time, you know, and just to get to then get, you know, to learn from that, dust yourself off. And that’s what the community in the Professional Speaking association is really good for. For as well because you’ve got those people that will help pick you back up and get you back out there again. And I can tell you that when I finish, I didn’t, I didn’t win at the finals. But when I finished my talk on that stage that day, I looked down at the timer and as I said my last word, the timer clock clicked 0000.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:28:24]:
I was spot on my time. I delivered it a hundred times better than I had done at a regional level. And I felt I could be pleased with myself and what I had achieved. And so I walked off that stage absolutely buzzing. It didn’t matter whether I won or not because of the journey that I had been on to get there.

Tim Newman [00:28:48]:
That’s awesome. That’s such a good story of resiliency and, and vulnerability. Admitting that, you know, we’re not, we’re not always on. I mean there’s, there’s bumps in the road and it’s how we tell. We deal with them and how we bounce back from it. I, number one, I never would have known that you, that that didn’t happen. But everybody struggles. It doesn’t.

Tim Newman [00:29:14]:
I mean, even the best people will have those hiccups, and it’s okay. And like you said, in that scenario with other professional speakers, they’re not judging you. They’ve been there. Every. Every single one of those people has been in your shoes and they want you to do well and they’re cheering for you and they want you to succeed and they want to help you. That’s the bottom line. They’re not. That’s the opposite of judging you, which is what we tell ourselves.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:29:44]:
Yes, absolutely. And I talk about all this help that I had along the way, and one little thing which I will share because it’s a little bit of fun on. And whether. Whether it helped me or not, I felt like it helped me on the day. And, and that was I spoke to. He was actually my old neighbor. So where I grew up at home, he lived next door, but one to me. And actually, there’s an American connection here because he now lives in America.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:30:14]:
He’s. He’s an actor on Days of Their Lives. And I think that’s a show you have.

Tim Newman [00:30:20]:
Yeah, it is. It is, yes.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:30:21]:
So he said he’s an actor on the show. And I said to him, I’ve got to learn this word for word because it’s like five minutes long. Like, you’re learning lines every day of the week. Like, tell me, how do you do this? And he’s. And his wife is on Broadway. And so he helped me with the lines. He helped me in terms of how to remember them. And then he said to me, right, so, you know, Rachel, my wife, one of the things she always does just before a brand new Broadway opening, it’s about half an hour before she goes on, she eats a banana and some dark chocolate.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:30:57]:
I don’t know. So all the other contestants, half an hour before this Global Speakers Summit speaker Factor final, were all kind of just around the table, you know, getting miked up or what have you. And I’m there, stuff in my face with a banana and eating chocolate. And they’re all looking at me going, how can you eat right now? And I’m like, competitive advantage.

Tim Newman [00:31:17]:
Exactly. That’s awesome. That’s awesome.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:31:21]:
Yeah. Anyway, I’m sure there’s somebody who’s got better scientific knowledge than I have that will possibly tell us what the ingredients are in the. Or the, you know, the, the, the. The things that a banana and some dark chocolate will do that might just help calm our nerves and just be in a good, you know, that Maybe it’s those endorphins that will come through that’ll be in a good place for when you start. So I just a bit of wanted to share that as well.

Tim Newman [00:31:46]:
But I think it’s awesome you found what works for you. I mean, because I’m a pacer. I pace and I’m. And I’m having those. The conversation in my head, and I’m, you know, you know, running down the time, you know, three minutes, and you got to be here seven minutes, I got to be here 15 minutes. I got to be there and running through that, you know, which may be helpful, maybe not, but that’s what works for. For. For me.

Tim Newman [00:32:12]:
It may not work for somebody else, but finding your way, that’s. I don’t know that I can stress that enough because, you know, of all the people that go out and have to talk in front of people, we all have to find our own way of doing it. There’s not one right way. We can help you, we can guide you, we can do these things, but ultimately, you’ve got to find what’s actually going to work for you.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:32:32]:
Absolutely. And another thing that I absolutely found super valuable just before going on stage was to take a few minutes outside the main room and to do some of that power posing and visualizing and just thinking about the audience, not about me. And there was a. And then when I walk back in the room, it’s almost strangely like a. I can completely feel it now. I walk back into the room with a completely different energy. There was no nervous energy. I stood at the back of the room.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:33:16]:
I watched the speaker that was in the competition directly before me. And I stood from a place of. This is. This is me here to, you know, to learn, to receive, to connect, to be with these people in this room. That energy is quite expansive and open, armed and, you know, outward reaching. And it’s not at all about, you know, me and my performance. And that, I think, really helped me to deliver, to deliver on that on that day.

Tim Newman [00:33:51]:
Are you going to go through that process again?

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:33:56]:
Well, well, so they have now. So this year is the first year that they’re doing it. They’ve. They’ve done another competition. So the speaker factor was always for new and emerging speakers. Okay, now got a special competition for professional speakers, which is the category I would now fall into. So maybe Tim not going to get.

Tim Newman [00:34:20]:
You should, you should, you should, you should, you should. And, you know, so some. Some of the stuff that I’m doing with, with the John Maxwell leadership team is you know, is going through the process of stage time. And I tell people whether, whether you’ve done it before, whether you haven’t done before, it’s you, everybody should do it because you get that practice, you get that practice of telling that story. You get that, you get the coaching of, you know, figuring out what that big story is and then getting it down to what it really means, what the piece that you really want to say. And then whether you get chosen for stage time or whether you get chosen for, to, to compete, that you, you, you now have something in your toolbox that you can pull out at any time and it, for, you know, for, for any friend, for any speaking engagement, maybe change it a little bit here or there. But you, you already have a, a pre crafted story that you could tell that’s going to, to, you know, make a point. And so, you know, for me right now I’m working on five different stories, you know, and just, and just think about that for the audience.

Tim Newman [00:35:36]:
Think about, think about that, right? You know, five minute, five, three minute stories. That’s 15 minutes. And by the time, by March, let’s just say by March, those five stories are going to be refined to the point if I were to go and do a keynote on something, maybe three of them are going to fit that keynote. Okay, I can insert them and it will help build that whole keynote and tell whatever thing you want to do. But that’s the piece why you should do it, Rachel, because whatever we have up here, they will coach you to get it down to the point that is actually going to resonate and add value to the audience.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:36:19]:
Absolutely, absolutely. It’s such a key thing that storytelling, isn’t it? And, and, and even just thinking about. And I think so. One of the things that I’ve learned through the Professional Speaking association is that the stories don’t have to be all big heroic stories. And I think sometimes some of us as speakers can maybe get fooled into thinking, well, I’ve not climbed Everest or I’m not a Paralympian or I’ve not got one of these huge heroic stories to share. But actually they can have their limitations. Because if your audience members aren’t, you know, elite endurance athletes or something like that, you know, then, then, you know, all of a sudden you telling a huge heroic story, whilst it can be inspiring and incredibly interesting for them to make that connection back with, you know, kind of with, with, with what? Well, how, how do I do this then? How do I make that leap? What do I do? You know, you’ve got to really, you know, help connect the dots with that. So I think to remember that the stories can even be the little tiny stories.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:37:35]:
Like, I tell a story about my toothbrush battery running out.

Tim Newman [00:37:40]:
Oh, that’s the worst. That’s. What are you gonna do?

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:37:43]:
That’s. That’s a mini. But it helps me illustrate something that I, That I talk about. That’s a mini everyday kind of scenario. So, yeah, I would just remind everybody that those stories, little ones, pub stories, as I would call them, because I’m from the uk, of course, you know, but little, Little everyday stories, pub stories and heroic stories, they all have their place. They do. And they’re. They’re all.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:38:07]:
They’re all super valuable.

Tim Newman [00:38:10]:
All right, so I’m going to tell you one. So I’m working on one that combines where my wife gave me up for New Year’s resolution. I gave her up for Lent, and when I asked her dad if I could marry her, he said no. So I’m working on a funny story about that. And now we’ve been married for almost 30 years.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:38:37]:
Oh, gosh, that sounds incredible.

Tim Newman [00:38:42]:
So it’s, you know, I’m working on. So I don’t really want to tell, but it’s a funny story. But it’s also a. A story about, you know, just because somebody says or does something, if you work on it, it. It’ll work. Everything will turn out. But, well, anyway, we’ll just leave it there and we’ll keep working on it.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:39:08]:
You’re leaving it on a cliffhanger. I want to know the story. I want to know the story.

Tim Newman [00:39:13]:
Well, essentially, my current wife is my second wife. I call her my forever wife. My first wife was a starter wife. And when I met her, I told say I’m never getting married again. And this is, you know, almost 30 years ago. And she said, okay, okay, okay. And when our personalities are very different, are very, very different. And it’s that.

Tim Newman [00:39:40]:
That’s what kind of said, well. She said, well, I’m done with you. I’m giving you up for. For New Year’s. Last New Year’s resolution lasted about a week. And then I gave her up for Lent. And then we moved in together like a week after that. Didn’t work out either.

Tim Newman [00:39:57]:
And her grandfather was a colonel in the army. And he came to the house and said, well, as long as you live with him and not be married, I’m never going to answer your phone call. I’m never going to receive a letter. And I said, well, I can’t do that. I’m not doing that to you. So I asked her dad to marry her. He said no. And we eloped.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:40:21]:
Huh?

Tim Newman [00:40:21]:
Yeah. And.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:40:23]:
Oh my God.

Tim Newman [00:40:24]:
Yeah. Oh, when I asked her to marry me, she said she, she had to think about it. I forgot about that piece. Yeah, she had to think about it.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:40:34]:
Oh, there’s so, there’s so much in this, isn’t it?

Tim Newman [00:40:37]:
Yeah.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:40:38]:
And, and, and you remind me because, so we had a brilliant, she’s still there, brilliant woman join the, the Professional Speaking Association a couple of years ago. And I would, yeah, people should definitely look her up. Her name’s Beth Sherman. She’s a seven times Emmy award winning comedy writer. And so she’s written for the Oscars, for Tom hanks, for Ellen DeGeneres, for the David Letterman show. And what she talks about is the incredible ability of humor to connect. And when we can connect through our humor, we’re in a much better place to have the influence and the impact that we want to have with our audiences. And yeah, so she’s, oh, she, she honest.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:41:29]:
And one of the things she always says to me is truth is funny, Rachel. Truth is funny. And there’s so much, there’s so much, so, so much in that.

Tim Newman [00:41:40]:
There really is. And you’ve got to give the audience, I think, time to digest the humor as well. So you can’t just, you can’t just say something funny and then just keep moving on. You’ve got to let them dive into it and embrace it because that’s what really makes that, it makes that impact as well. So.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:42:09]:
And you know, do you know, I think the humor. So I got caught. I got caught today. So true story from my life. Earlier today I was due to be delivering a training session to 25 senior leaders, large corporate organization. I didn’t realize it until I got in the room today, but the CEO of the company was also there listening to this particular training session that I was going to be running for two hours, half an hour before we’re due to go live. I’m on with the lady from the company who’s brilliant at helping me. Back of house and my computer’s not running properly.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:42:51]:
Brand new computer. I say to him, I’m going to turn it off and turn it back on again because yeah, often solves everything right.

Tim Newman [00:42:57]:
Right.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:42:57]:
My computer would not switch back on again. No word of a lie. I tried it seven times. I’m on the phone to Apple. Like, what is going on? Oh, I do have a laptop, but it like is covered in dust. Because I haven’t, I’m like dusting it off because I haven’t had it out for ages. And you can imagine starting that up, downloading the documents and you know that in starting that meeting today with that audience, because I was a little bit late and because the senior leader who was sponsoring the event needed to kick off without me properly being there and, and all of the rest of it when I did come in and come on, it’s like, well, you know, this whole technology thing is proof that even inanimate objects can hold a grudge, you know, and it’s just, you know, it just, it does feel some days that that technology has got a life of its own and it’s completely against you. You know, I’m just honestly saying to people, you know this, you know, we worked really hard.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:44:01]:
We bet we met half an hour yesterday and hot and this morning to get things up and running, you know, believe it, believe it or not. And just something that is a little bit sometimes self deprecate deprivation Bosch can’t get my words out there. Or even just that light little bit of humor even when things go wrong. Because I think as a speaker it can be easy to get quite het up about, about that and can cause you. And I was concerned, of course I was, but just being able to keep your cool in those moments, make a little bit of a joke and a laugh about it and then, and then, and then move on.

Tim Newman [00:44:38]:
Yeah.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:44:38]:
So humor, just absolutely amazing. You’ve got so many humorous bits in that story I cannot wait to hear.

Tim Newman [00:44:45]:
Yeah, well that’s, that’s, that’s my style as well, you know, it’s the self deprecating humor. It’s the dry, deadpan stuff and yeah, but that’s just my way. It’s just my style. And I think sometimes being that conversational style really does disarm even the critics in the room who may not agree with what you’re saying, who may not like what you’re saying. That’s really kind of just disarming in a way that kind of works for me.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:45:13]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:45:14]:
Well, Rachel, thank you so, so much for spending some time with us. Again, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. I love our conversations. But tell people again where they can connect with you.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:45:26]:
The best place to connect with me would be through my website, which is elevar.co.uk and that’s spelled E double L E V A R or to connect with me on LinkedIn. If anything that we’ve been talking about has resonated with you here. I would love for you to connect. Drop me a message and let me know. And it’s just Rachel Edmondson Clark. And if there’s an extra letter that you can add to my name, be sure to do it because then you’ll get the spelling correct. It’s A, E, L for Rachel Clark with an E. And it’s Edmondson.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:45:58]:
So, yes, there we go. Rachel Edmondson Clark on LinkedIn or at elavar.co.uk.

Tim Newman [00:46:03]:
Awesome. Thank you so much. Take care and I look forward to talking to you soon.

Rachael Edmondson-Clarke [00:46:07]:
Tim, thank you. Take care, too.

Tim Newman [00:46:12]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, the Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Formula for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time. Take care.