Navigating Generational Differences: The Power of Relationship-Based Leadership with Gen Z Teams

Tim Newman [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor, attorney communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on a journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today’s guest is Dr. Tim Elmore. Tim is the founder of Growing Leaders, an Atlanta based nonprofit organization created to developing emerging leaders. His work grew out of 20 years of serving alongside Dr.

Tim Newman [00:00:41]:
John C. Maxwell. Elmore has appeared in the Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, USA Today, Psychology Today. He’s also been featured on CNN’s Headline News, Fox Business, Newsmax TV, and Fox and Friends to talk about leading multiple generations in the marketplace. He’s written over 35 books, including Habitudes, Images that Form Leadership Habits and Attitudes, Eight Paradoxes of Great Leadership, and a New Kind of Diversity Making different generations on your team a competitive advantage. His latest book, the Future begins with Z9 strategies to lead Generation Z as they Upset the Marketplace, was released in the fall of 2025. Tim, welcome to Speaking with Confidence. I’m so happy to have you today.

Tim Elmore [00:01:28]:
Thank you, Tim. We’re going to have a great conversation. I can tell.

Tim Newman [00:01:31]:
And we are not just because our name is Tim, and that’s because we dress alight. But we’ve got a lot of information to cover. And I got to tell you, when I heard you talk about your new book, you know, the Future Begins with Z on a podcast with John Maxwell and Mark Cole, I told my wife that there was finally some data on some of the things that I’ve been saying for years, such as the Gen Z is smarter than previous generations. Gen Z is more entrepreneurial than other generations, but they’re the worst communicators.

Tim Elmore [00:02:04]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:02:09]:
So again, really looking forward to talking to you about Gen Z and why we need to make some fundamental changes in how we lead and communicate with them.

Tim Elmore [00:02:18]:
Yeah, good. I’m ready. Let’s do it.

Tim Newman [00:02:20]:
All right. So the first thing that really, really jumped out at me is the whole idea of anxiety that our young professionals are facing. And let me just make sure I get the stat right that the anxiety levels today are the same as a.

Tim Elmore [00:02:42]:
Psychiatric patient.

Tim Newman [00:02:43]:
A psychiatric patient in 1950s. Yes. How did we get here, Tim? How did that happen?

Tim Elmore [00:02:48]:
It was a slow evolution that happened even before the smartphone. But the smartphone absolutely accelerated the rise of anxiety. Panic attacks, feeling overwhelmed. But Tim, if you think about it, a young person, or an old person for that matter, that’s on social media. When you add the messaging from social media to every other source of communication coming at them, it’s 10,000 messages every day. I don’t think we’re hardwired to take in 10,000 messages every day. So if you’re communicating, you’re up against 9,999 other messages. Good luck with that.

Tim Elmore [00:03:26]:
But I also think it puts a gen zer, who’s a young adult now, in an overwhelming spot. That’s the number one word that college students today use to describe their life. I’m overwhelmed. So the anxiety is a natural outgrowth of the new world we’re living in. And I think we’re going to have to find not just coping mechanisms, but coping skills in order to thrive in this new day.

Tim Newman [00:03:49]:
Yeah. You know, throughout my career, I made two major pivots in my career around some of the things that were happening socially. One was in the late 2000s around social media. You know, I had kids at the point Point. I asked my daughter, who was. She was in middle school, asked her about Twitter, and she said, dad, you don’t want anything to do with Twitter. And I said, okay, that means I better figure out what Twitter is.

Tim Elmore [00:04:13]:
Yeah, yeah.

Tim Newman [00:04:14]:
And the second. And the second was around 2017, 2018, when I noticed, number one, I wasn’t connecting with students like I used to. And the level of anxiety, how they would get so upset over just something small that I would think would be trivial, and I didn’t know how to handle it. I didn’t. I didn’t know what to do, what to do. So what can we do as. As the older generations to, number one, adjust, but also coach them to have grit. You talk about grit in your book.

Tim Newman [00:04:46]:
What can we do?

Tim Elmore [00:04:48]:
Two things I always like to say about anxiety when I look at the data. I think depending on the young person that might be in front of you, they’re either needed. Going to need to be coached up by us saying, hey, listen, we’re all a little anxious right now. It’s a normal part of life. You’re not weird, you’re not abnormal. We’re all a little stressed. And stop thinking that you have some disorder. Let’s just make it through the stress.

Tim Elmore [00:05:14]:
Sometimes I think we need to say that the other angle or the other side of the same coin, Tim, is this. I think we who are, let’s say, over 40 years old need to make sure we start with empathy in order to get to that grit we want to develop in them. I think it’s easy for Someone like me who’s in the 45th year of his career to say, come on, just grow up, grow a little grit, you know, suck it up, buttercup, you know, those kinds of things. And while I’m tempted to do that, that’s never gotten me any good outcome.

Tim Newman [00:05:46]:
No, it hasn’t.

Tim Elmore [00:05:46]:
I lean in and say, listen, I know it’s weird right now. I. I know it’s hard right now, but we can do it together. So in the book I talk about ptsd, which we’ve all heard that term we’re all familiar with, even if you’re a layman when it comes to psychology. Post traumatic stress disorder. 82% of Gen Z members claim to have gone through a trauma. And for many of them, it was the pandemic. And that was really real, for sure.

Tim Elmore [00:06:14]:
But we Rarely talk about PTG. Post traumatic growth.

Tim Newman [00:06:19]:
Growth, yeah.

Tim Elmore [00:06:20]:
Which actually 80% of people that go through trauma end up with PTG and not end up with PTSD, so they end up in a growth area. But, Tim, here’s what you and I will both love. It usually happens when they go through the trauma, but someone comes alongside of them and is able to communicate. Look at how you’ve gotten better and stronger and healthier and more joyful and grateful and as a result of that hardship. Now, I probably sound like grandpa right now, but it’s basically us saying, listen, good things can happen through hard times. It’s a weight room. I go into the weight room. Do I like the lifting of weights? No, I don’t.

Tim Elmore [00:06:56]:
But, boy, I like the aftermath when I look a little stronger afterwards, so I’ll stop there. But PTG is what we got to go for when it comes to the empathy and the. And the stress that we face right now.

Tim Newman [00:07:07]:
Well, I’d like for you to talk a little bit more about ptg, because, you know, again, that’s something that. Number one, I didn’t know there was a term for it, but you can see it when you work with people and you, and you and you see where they are and you get them going and get them moving forward, and then watch them look back and say, look, you know, thank you for helping me, and this is where I grew, and thank you for doing or saying this and being intentional about helping them grow. Can you. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Tim Elmore [00:07:33]:
Absolutely. So it’s a mindset shift, isn’t it? It’s a way of helping another or ourselves. For that, we may need to look in the mirror and do this, but we look at them and we say, I acknowledge your hardship. So I am empathizing with you. I’m acknowledging it’s hard. However, as we go forward, I know the worst thing I can leave you with is a victim mindset. Yes, you’re a victim. We’re probably all victim.

Tim Elmore [00:08:01]:
We could all rehearse for 30 minutes over the things that gone wrong. But what if I allow for that young person, a Gen Z member, for, for instance, to say, I get it, but I cannot leave you where you are. So I actually differentiate in the book between empathy and compassion. It’s just semantics. But let me tell you what helps me. If I’m empathetic to a Gen Z member, I say, oh, I feel you’re hurt. Okay, I hurt with you. That’s empathy.

Tim Elmore [00:08:29]:
I’ve stepped into your shoes. That’s empathy. When I’m compassionate, I feel that empathy. But I want to equip them to make it through that tough time. So it’s the difference. Here’s a metaphor. It’s the difference between you being in the hospital and you get a visit from a friend, and you get a visit from a nurse. A friend can sit down next to your bed and say, gee, I’m so sorry this has happened to you.

Tim Elmore [00:08:53]:
Can I get you a cup of water? A nurse says, I’m really sorry about this, but let’s do. Let me treat you right now. Let me get you through this hardship, sickness, or this disease. That’s what we need to be nurses or doctors, not just friends when it comes to the stress levels, we see.

Tim Newman [00:09:09]:
Yeah, and I kind of relate that, too. I had my knee replaced a couple years ago. My wife was there, you know, make me feel good. And the physical therapist said, okay, get up, let’s go. Let’s go for a walk, Doc. I’d rather just say here, it’s good, but you got to get. You have to. That’s part of.

Tim Newman [00:09:26]:
You have to get up and move.

Tim Elmore [00:09:27]:
And.

Tim Newman [00:09:27]:
And you said something. You’ve been through some traumas, seven car accidents. And I’ve never spoken to somebody who’s survived a plane crash. And so, you know, like you said, we all have trauma, we all have those things and finding ways to move forward. And, you know, I think about it from a. From an educational perspective. And I’m a lot like you in the whole idea of academics. You know, my background.

Tim Newman [00:09:53]:
My background was in sport management, so I worked with sport marketing.

Tim Elmore [00:09:57]:
And.

Tim Newman [00:09:58]:
And if we didn’t practice pracademics, our students would never get jobs in that industry. But from an educational Perspective. What can we be doing as educators with our students so that they’re ready or they’re more ready tomorrow to go out in the world of work than they are now?

Tim Elmore [00:10:23]:
Yeah. I tell you what’s going through my mind right now, Tim, and this may or may not be a great answer, but here’s what streaked through my mind. I think we need to help them manage their expectations. So without stereotyping, there’s a lot of gen zers that either through social media or through mama who told them they’re awesome for putting the spoon in the dishwasher. They’ve got maybe an unrealistic expectation. And I tell you where I learned this. I talked to employers that go, oh my gosh, I just interviewed a job candidate who’s from Gen Z and they expected a six digit salary. And I want to have, you know, I want to be a VP by the time I’m 26.

Tim Elmore [00:11:00]:
And they’re going, oh my gosh. So in the, in the book I talk about the fact that conflict expands based on the distance between expectations and reality. If we don’t right size those maybe unrealistic, idealistic expectations, we’ve done them a disservice. So it’s a mindset shift. The second thing that goes through my mind though is I think we need to offer them a different narrative. For instance, if they feel like they are a victim of circumstances, I can’t find a job or my boyfriend broke up with me, or I’ve been through this trauma and now I can’t get out of it. I think we need to help them change what they, how they talk to themselves. So here’s, here’s a couple of examples.

Tim Elmore [00:11:50]:
I noticed this year, Tim, that probably because I’m aging, I’m now in my 60s. I’m noticing that my brain is focusing on problems that need to be solved more than ever. And I did a little research behind this and here’s what I discovered. As we age, our brain knows we’re going to have to conserve energy as we get older. We’re not as energetic as we were when we were in our 20s. So in that conserving of energy, we tend to not focus on what’s right that doesn’t need our attention. It’s going well. We need to focus on what’s wrong.

Tim Elmore [00:12:26]:
Does this make sense?

Tim Newman [00:12:27]:
Oh, absolutely.

Tim Elmore [00:12:28]:
We start, we tend to ruminate on these things that are going wrong. Well, next thing I know, I’m a grumpy old man, I’m overspeaking. But you know, I’m No, I get you.

Tim Newman [00:12:37]:
Right.

Tim Elmore [00:12:38]:
Get off my lawn. You know, those kinds of things.

Tim Newman [00:12:40]:
Right.

Tim Elmore [00:12:41]:
So what I’m doing now, when I get up in the morning, one of the first things I do, I put my slippers on, I go get a drink of water. But I say to myself, good things keep happening to me now, it’s true, but I tend to look at the things that I need to fix that day. So on my iPhone, I have in the notes section a list of things I’ve written down that are good things that just keep happening to me. The phone keeps ringing with opportunities. I have an incredible family, and my kids have found spouses that we love. You know, those kinds of things.

Tim Newman [00:13:15]:
Yes. Right, right.

Tim Elmore [00:13:17]:
Gratitude thing, though, Tim. It’s more. I’m acknowledging that, yeah, there’s some problems that need to be solved. I’m not in denial. But good things keep happening. It puts a skip in my step. So I’m wondering, could we take that person in front of us, young or old for that matter, and remind them you got some momentum now and you don’t even know it, or maybe you’re not realizing it. So I’ll stop there.

Tim Newman [00:13:40]:
But again, that’s so powerful. If we can make them have that, we can’t make them do anything, but if we can get them to understand that mind shift and practice it, it’s small steps. Small steps, Small steps. And I’m so glad you mentioned your family and your kids. I’ve got grandkids now and, and wow.

Tim Elmore [00:13:59]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:13:59]:
I live. I live in South Carolina, so it’s cold today, but we’re going up for.

Tim Elmore [00:14:04]:
For.

Tim Newman [00:14:04]:
For Christmas here, and it’s going to be cold. And I told my wife, I said, look, let’s just go up. We’re going to be. We’re going to be with our kids. We’re going to be with our grandkids. Let’s not. We’re not going to complain that it’s cold. We’re.

Tim Newman [00:14:16]:
We’re going to be around our most important treasures.

Tim Elmore [00:14:19]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:14:19]:
Let’s just have fun and, and enjoy it and take some of those other things again, like, like you said, not that they’re not there, not that we’re ignoring them, but we’re going to focus on those good pieces. And I love it. If we can do that and the younger generations can see us doing that, maybe that’s also something that’s going to trigger them to do the same.

Tim Elmore [00:14:38]:
I think so. You know, I’m thinking about the Stockdale Paradox. Admiral James Stockdale was a Vietnam officer. Who was the highest ranking officer to be caught by the, by the North Vietnamese and put in a POW camp. Long story short, he’s in that camp, I think for seven years. So this is not a cakewalk. And it went on a long time. He made it out.

Tim Elmore [00:15:03]:
And so he was interviewed and by Jim Collins from Stanford. And Jim Collins said, well, what enabled you to, you know, to make it out? And he said, well, I was hopeful, I stayed hopeful. And then he defined it as, I always believed that one day I would prevail and make it out of this and I would do something good with this. Jim Collins said in response, wow, that’s great. Who didn’t make it out? And you know what he said? He said it was the optimist. And Collins said, wait, I thought you just said you were optimistic. He said, no, I had hope. There’s a difference between hope you’re hoping.

Tim Newman [00:15:44]:
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim Elmore [00:15:45]:
And here’s what he explained. He said the optimists were the prisoners with me there that said, well, by Easter we’ll all be out. And then Easter came and left and they were still there. Well, by Christmas we’ll all be free. And then Christmas came and left. They were talking about things that are out of their control. Right. Hope was, I am going to make it through this thing and one day I believe I will benefit from this and make it out and so forth.

Tim Elmore [00:16:13]:
So I think we need to be careful, especially as we coach others and we communicate to others that we don’t make promises that we’re not in control of.

Tim Newman [00:16:21]:
Right.

Tim Elmore [00:16:21]:
Or, you know, whatever. We need to make sure that we’re differentiating between. I am hopeful and I am hopeful right now. I’m hopeful on Jet for Gen Z and the difference they’re going to make if we lead them well. But, but I’m also staying away from those unrealistic expectations. And yeah, that optimism, that’s just superficial.

Tim Newman [00:16:42]:
Yeah. Was there a moment when you did your, we’re doing research for this that you, that you realized that you were underestimating Gen Z?

Tim Elmore [00:16:53]:
Yeah. The very opening story I reveal that I went into this research like most others, let’s just say people our age or past midlife. And I was thinking, ah, kids, they need to grow some grit. They need to be resilient, they need to not be lazy, they need to work hard. That sounds like a grandpa, but. And by the way, I got that confirmed. Every employer I talked to, except maybe one or two, three out of four employers, told me that Generation Z is the toughest Generation to manage three out of four, 30% of them said I fired them within the first month of their employment. And another 30%, Tim, said, I avoid hiring Gen Z altogether.

Tim Elmore [00:17:41]:
Well, that’s not a path forward. That’s just not a path.

Tim Newman [00:17:43]:
It’s not. Yeah, it’s not.

Tim Elmore [00:17:45]:
So I began to meet with these Gen zers. I surveyed over 2,000, to be exact, 2014 members of Gen Z. Then I hosted focus groups, 21 focus groups from California to Georgia. And I began to meet some young people where my mindset changed. So let me tell you one quick story. Colin Webb, I’ve known him since he was in high school. Colin graduated and he was a smart kid. So he got an invitation to go up to MIT for his undergraduate work.

Tim Elmore [00:18:18]:
Went to mit, did really well, and you can imagine when he graduated, he got several job offers. So Colin decided to move from Boston to Detroit, Michigan and work for one of the big three, General Motors, one of the big three automakers. Right now they put him in the smart car division. So he’s very excited as he starts. But as he looks around, this young 22 year old young man, he looks around, he sees, if I can be blunt, a very traditional setting. You know, they’ve been around 100 years or so and they did some old school things. And so he began to write down a list of things that they could do better, they could do professional development better, they could do this system over here better. He took the list to his supervisor and he pretty much got shut down.

Tim Elmore [00:19:09]:
His supervisor basically said, colin, we didn’t hire you to come up with ideas. Keep your nose to the grindstone, keep your head down, get your work done. So Colin said, yes, sir, went back to his desk, but he wasn’t done. In the spirit of a true Gen Zer, Colin writes the CEO of General Motors, Mary Barra. And in his email he says, mary, I have some great ideas that we could use here. I think you’ll like them. She reads the email and replies to him and says, colin, these are really good ideas. Let me take them to my executive team.

Tim Elmore [00:19:45]:
And when she did, they agreed that these were great ideas. But as you’ve heard me say before, when those ideas made it way down the organizational chart and got to the middle manager and his supervisor, once again, they died on the vine. Colin was told, you need to be around here eight years before you get to lead anything. So you might as well have told Colin to leave right now, right? Within a year he left. Here’s what makes me optimistic. He left and has since he’s still in his 20s. He has since started three companies. He’s an entrepreneur, a serial entrepreneur.

Tim Elmore [00:20:22]:
He just sold company number two, made a boatload of money. He’s working on a third now. It’s AI related and it’s incredible and it’s something I could never do. But I’m thinking to myself, we need those columns at our workplaces.

Tim Newman [00:20:38]:
Yes.

Tim Elmore [00:20:38]:
But we lose them when we pretty much shut them down and say, here’s the way we do them. We don’t do things that way around here. So anyway, I’m very optimistic. The book is a very hopeful book, but I think we’re going to need to change the way we lead them if we’re going to succeed.

Tim Newman [00:20:55]:
Absolutely. And I look at things, maybe I look at things differently than most, but to me it comes back to building relationships and building trust before you do anything else. And I think if you build relationships and you build trust, everything that comes after that, whether it’s tough times, whether it’s feedback, whether it’s you make a mistake or whatever it is, those things can be handled because there’s that relationship, there’s that trust that it can be about any number of different things. And that’s really what I think the Gen Z needs is to feel a part of things and to be trusted to be able to do things. And if they make a mistake, it’s not that it’s going to be overlooked or washed away, but there will be some accountability. But it’s not the end of the world.

Tim Elmore [00:21:46]:
Yeah, no doubt you hit the nail on the head. I cannot underscore enough for listeners who care about young people, relationship is everything. They’re looking to be trusted. And I know that’s hard, bosses out there because you go, well, I don’t even know if I can trust them yet, you know, but they’re looking for that connection. I always tell people, you gotta connect before you correct that’s just a fact. Today especially. And I share an acronym when I talk about giving feedback to Gen Z, it’s a leg, A L, E, G, A leg. And it reminds me every time I have to have a hard conversation with somebody, I need to practice A L, E G.

Tim Elmore [00:22:27]:
The letter A reminds me I gotta start with asking, not telling. I want to tell them what they’ve done wrong. But I need to start with, hey, tell me your thought process behind that decision you just made. What were you thinking there? You know, when I ask someone how they came to this conclusion, they feel valued. I’m actually asking this Young person. The letter A reminds me I’ve got to listen. And that’s an art form that is hard for leaders. The more you know, the harder it is to listen.

Tim Elmore [00:22:57]:
And you feel like you know a lot, so. But when I listen, they feel heard. And this is the number one thing they’re looking for. So I want to have a voice. I want to be heard. The letter E in a leg. Empathize. So that’s what you were just talking about.

Tim Elmore [00:23:09]:
The connection, the relationship I need to demonstrate or communicate. I get it now. Or I had no idea, but thanks for telling me. Or I bet that made you feel horrible when that happened. But when we do this, they feel understood.

Tim Newman [00:23:24]:
Right.

Tim Elmore [00:23:24]:
So get it. They feel valued, they feel heard, they feel understood. When we’ve done this, Tim, now we’ve earned the right to practice letter G, which is to guide them. That’s what I wanted to do in the first place, but I earned it now over the last 15 minutes or so, through the bridge I built, not the badge I wear. And that’s that bad. That bridge is the connection that you just talked about. I cannot underestimate or underscore enough how important that is. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:23:55]:
The trust, the listening. And in your book you also talk about something that it’s easy to remember. But when I tell people about this, they look at me like I’m nuts. I said when you talk, you need to talk with confidence. Like you’re right.

Tim Elmore [00:24:11]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:24:12]:
But when it’s time to listen, you need to listen like you’re wrong.

Tim Elmore [00:24:15]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:24:16]:
Especially with Gen Z. That’s, it’s, it’s so important.

Tim Elmore [00:24:20]:
This is key. You’re right. It’s a practice I now have practiced for four years now. I did a book called the Eight Paradoxes of Great Leadership. And that’s one of them. To be confident and humble. And that means speak with confidence. But listen with.

Tim Elmore [00:24:32]:
I could be wrong about this. And that 22 year old may just be right. I think the best idea should win, even if it’s from an internal. And it’s not Bob, who’s 54 years old or whatever. So yeah, I’m with you all the way.

Tim Newman [00:24:48]:
You know, and talk about feedback. You know, in your last episode of your Feedback Generations at Work, you had a phenomenal guest on that talked about feedback and how to give it and it’s so important. And you talked about, you know, the five most important people in your life and how they gave you feedback and the basis of that feedback was because they care about you.

Tim Elmore [00:25:13]:
Yes, yes.

Tim Newman [00:25:14]:
No matter what it was and you grew because they cared about you. And that’s I think, the bottom line here.

Tim Elmore [00:25:19]:
You’re exactly right. And if we do it out of belief, not relief, that’s the key. So I know that’s a cliche, but think with me. I tend to offer hard feedback as a surgeon or a vampire. I know that’s crazy, but stay with us. If I’m a vampire, by the way, am I right about this?

Tim Newman [00:25:39]:
Yeah, you’re absolutely right.

Tim Elmore [00:25:40]:
Both draw blood. They both draw blood, but very different. The vampire sneaks up on you in a dark room, bites you, the blood comes out and you die. You fall to the ground. Surgeon, well lit room. Everybody’s prepared for what’s about to happen. We talked about it ahead of time and the surgeon just removes that one tumor. He doesn’t slice up your whole body.

Tim Elmore [00:26:06]:
I think we offer that surgery that other people need to hear that feedback that may be hard like a surgeon. I do it out of belief in this person. I believe in you. And that’s why I want to offer this heart, because I think you’re better than this or relief. I want to just relieve myself and vent. I want to get rid of this frustration I have with this young whippersnapper or whatever. So think belief, not relief. When you next time you have to.

Tim Newman [00:26:32]:
Have a hard conversation and this kind of brings up something else. You know, you talked a little bit about, you know, employers just kind of throwing the hands up and not even hiring Gen Z or you know, Gen Z’s haven’t even had a conversation with somebody over 50 at their place of work. To me that just, that’s just a failure all the way around.

Tim Elmore [00:26:52]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:26:53]:
And we talk about responsibility from the employer side and I’ve got friends who would throw their hands out. Kids won’t read, they won’t write, they won’t do this. And I talked to them. So what are you doing to get them to do that? What are you doing to entice them or showing them? But from the Gen Z perspective, they have some responsibility here as well.

Tim Elmore [00:27:13]:
Yeah, no doubt about it. And I think the answer is almost always in the middle when it comes to teams and work and so forth. So I will always challenge a young person to better themselves. In other words, I believe they’re better than they just showed me in that last poor performance. So I’m going to challenge you, I’m going to call you up to that. But I think I need to lean into them as well. So I find the answer in the middle and when we do, we’re communicating. I want to lean into you because I care about you, but I’m asking you to grow up.

Tim Elmore [00:27:49]:
So one of the metaphors that we use, I use when I talk about this is the velvet covered brick. Think about that.

Tim Newman [00:27:58]:
Yeah.

Tim Elmore [00:27:59]:
Velvet brick is my best. My best image for what leadership is velvet on the outside which says, I support you, I’m behind you, I have your back. I believe in you. The brick part is because I believe in you. I’m not going to let you get by with poor performance here. You’re better than you just showed me, Josh or Jessica, and I’m going to call it out of you. So that’s what they need. Supportive and demanding.

Tim Elmore [00:28:26]:
Supportive and demanding. And I feel like when we do that, they’re going to become their best selves on the team.

Tim Newman [00:28:33]:
Yeah. And I look at like something very similar, but from the sports perspective, a coach, he’s not gonna let you get away. Get away with that.

Tim Elmore [00:28:42]:
That’s right. That’s right.

Tim Newman [00:28:44]:
They’re gonna be all over you. And if you’re not gonna do it and get it right after, I’m gonna give you a couple opportunities. But then we’re gonna move on to somebody else.

Tim Elmore [00:28:52]:
That’s right. Absolutely. And that’s a real world picture. Coaches are probably a little more blunt than a professor sometimes because they gotta win or they’re out.

Tim Newman [00:29:02]:
Exactly.

Tim Elmore [00:29:04]:
Absolutely right. And I. I love student athletes who’ve gone through the rigor and the discipline of a good coach because they believe they can do it and they have to give their best or they don’t play on Saturday, Saturday’s game or Friday’s match or whatever.

Tim Newman [00:29:21]:
Whatever it is.

Tim Elmore [00:29:21]:
Yeah, yeah, right. Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:29:24]:
So in terms of communication, in the book you talk about the Gen Z wants communication. It’s authentic, brief and frequent.

Tim Elmore [00:29:32]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:29:32]:
Which of those three deleters get wrong the most?

Tim Elmore [00:29:36]:
Wow. Probably depends on the leader. I feel like I had to learn to be authentic as a boomer. The reason I say that is not because boomers aren’t authentic. I just feel like I entered my career in a time. You bet your. You put your best foot forward. Never let them see you sweat.

Tim Elmore [00:29:55]:
Leave your personal problems at the door. Get your work done, you know, blah, blah, blah. Today it’s bring your whole self to work. So a gen zer comes in. And they may bring their baggage maybe, or their emotional volatility. So I had to learn to be authentic with them. And Tim, I don’t think that means we hang out our dirty laundry every Day.

Tim Newman [00:30:15]:
No, no. Right, right.

Tim Elmore [00:30:17]:
But it means I might say, yeah, this is a scary situation, isn’t it? We’re going through a pandemic right now. I’ve never been through one. Let’s do this together, you know, that sort of thing. Right. So authenticity may be number one. It’s just my guess. But I’m telling you, I have a hard time being brief sometimes. Have you, can you tell already is?

Tim Newman [00:30:37]:
Yeah. But for me it’s frequent because I’m.

Tim Elmore [00:30:41]:
Like, yes, yeah, they want it, they.

Tim Newman [00:30:45]:
Want it now and they want it now. Okay, but I just, I literally, I literally just talked to you 10 minutes ago.

Tim Elmore [00:30:49]:
Yeah, right. Him. I was shocked when I read the data on this. The average gen zer at work in a job wants daily check ins from their boss. When I say that to bosses, they go, are you kidding me? I’m doing my own work. I can’t check on junior and everybody. Okay. Over here.

Tim Elmore [00:31:08]:
But the daily check in makes sense because one, they may have all through school been playing video games where they get regular check ins. You know, exactly what level you’re on in Grand Theft Auto or whatever, Minecraft. But also I think that if they hear no news from their boss, they can assume the very worst.

Tim Newman [00:31:31]:
Right.

Tim Elmore [00:31:32]:
I worked for John Maxwell right out of college. I assume if John didn’t talk to me, I knew this is all good, we’re all good back. I didn’t want to have a meeting with him if it was at the end of the day. So I feel like we just need to adapt as leaders and realize this new crop of young people need to be led differently. I call them the sandpaper on my leadership that I did not know I needed. And they are going to sandpaper me. They’re not going to put up, if I can be blunt, they’re not going to put up with BS that I might have been prone to share. They’re going to demand that we’re real and that we’re honest and that we’re disclosing where we are.

Tim Elmore [00:32:14]:
But when we do that, I think they’re going to go to the mat for us.

Tim Newman [00:32:17]:
And, and, oh, they will.

Tim Elmore [00:32:18]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:32:21]:
You talk about the bs. They’ve got a really good BS detector. I mean, they’re really good about it. So what? Communication habits instantly break that trust with him.

Tim Elmore [00:32:32]:
Wow. Well, inauthenticity, meaning I’m fake. They can smell a fake a mile away. That’s the BS factor. So they can smell fake and that you’re just, you know, not really being honest with me about what’s happening. By the way, let me take a real quick sidebar. Since this is really on communication, I have found, and I did put this in the book, I have found that there’s a sequence I need to follow if we’re going through a difficult season. And I’ve got gen zers in front of me.

Tim Elmore [00:33:04]:
Number one, by the way, there’s three big ideas here, okay? Number one, I need to do hard before easy, meaning if they know things are not going well, my humanity says, oh, let me share some good news with you. And they go, just get to the bottom line. I know you’re about to drop a bomb on us. We’re not stupid. Yeah. So hard before you jump right in and say, listen, I got some good news and some bad news. Let me share the bad news first because, see, that makes you believable. Now they go, okay, he’s being real with us.

Tim Elmore [00:33:39]:
Then I get to close the meeting with. Now the good news is, you know, our numbers are up or whatever. So hard before easy number. Number two, big picture before smaller details. So when they are stressed and we are all anxious, perhaps I think if we share details right away, they can get lost in the. In the details.

Tim Newman [00:34:02]:
Right?

Tim Elmore [00:34:02]:
But if I share. If I can put it this way, the box top and then share how their puzzle piece fits into the puzzle, they need to see the box top. Here’s the big picture. We’re still working toward our mission. We’re still on track. Here’s what quarter four looks like now. Josh, I need this puzzle piece to be played by you. Need you, buddy.

Tim Elmore [00:34:22]:
Let’s do it. Jessica, need you to play your puzzle piece. So that’s another big one. It’s just. Yeah, it’s just necessary. So I guess all that to say, let me just stop because I’m taking too long here. I need to step into their shoes, right? Not how I want to communicate or how frustrated I am as the boss, but I need to keep it real and disclose things in that fashion.

Tim Newman [00:34:51]:
I love the puzzle analogy because it really does illustrate that from that bigger picture. One of the things for me, though, is leaders also have to admit they. They’re not right. Or if you tell them you’re going to do something, either if you don’t do it, just say you didn’t do it. Or if you. If you don’t know the answer, just say you didn’t answer. Because, you know, for me, you know, especially, you know, from. From the professor perspective, if they know right away, if I.

Tim Newman [00:35:22]:
If I tell them I’m going to do something and I don’t do it. And they call me on it, I better just say, you know what? I didn’t do it. Send me a reminder, this. Or shoot me an email and I’ll get back to whatever it is. But don’t say you did something if you didn’t do it. Don’t give it an answer that’s not that you don’t know to be true, because that is just so detrimental to everything that you’re trying to accomplish.

Tim Elmore [00:35:44]:
And number one on that is trust. You’re right. It breaks trust. So this is a history illustration, but I think you’re spot on. Probably one of the worst mistakes that John F. Kennedy made more than 60 years ago was the Bay of Pigs fiasco. We’ve read it in our history books. Horrible thing down in.

Tim Elmore [00:36:03]:
Down in Cuba. Well, right afterwards, his popularity went up. In fact, he was baffled. He said, it’s amazing. The more mistakes I make, the more they like me. Well, here’s what happened that made people like him. He owned it. As soon as that thing happened, he didn’t blame Congress, he didn’t blame his cabinet, he didn’t blame the minister, the Defense Secretary.

Tim Elmore [00:36:24]:
He said, this was on me. I made this decision and I own it and it’s never going to happen again. Well, people love that honesty, like you just said. And when you own it and say, listen, that’s my bad. I’m so sorry I didn’t follow through on that. To a Gen Z’, er, they go, okay, I don’t need you to be perfect, but I do need you to be real. So I actually had a Gen Zer say to me, Dr. Tim, the only thing worse than being uncool is being unreal.

Tim Elmore [00:36:52]:
Isn’t that a great.

Tim Newman [00:36:53]:
That’s, that’s, that’s phenomenal. But it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s true.

Tim Elmore [00:36:57]:
That was a college thing. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:37:01]:
Yeah. It kind of makes you. Yeah, you’re right. And again, I’m, I’m an Xer, and I’m kind of like you in the sense that, you know, just put your head down, do what you got to do. And, you know, people ask me how things are going all the time, and I, My response is, nobody’s told me otherwise, so things are great. And so it’s, it’s. But it’s the exact opposite of Gen Z. It’s that mindset.

Tim Newman [00:37:22]:
Nobody’s told me otherwise. So we’re sailing.

Tim Elmore [00:37:25]:
Yes. Yep.

Tim Newman [00:37:28]:
So what’s a miss? A misconception from A Gen Z’s perspective in terms of communicating with an authority figure. Because again, going back to one of the things that you said earlier that somebody 15 or older is not, hasn’t communicated with the Gen Z in the workplace. That’s.

Tim Elmore [00:37:47]:
It baffles me. Yeah, well, I do think what must be happening, this is just my, my gut, not my data, is I think that we can be so different between age 50 and age 22 that we just seek out our own kind. We meet at the water cooler with other 50 year olds who think like us, talk like us, vote like us. And I don’t seek out that Gen Z who seems like they’re from another country. You know, let’s be honest. But see, you taught them in a college class. So you were with these different twenty somethings every. Every day or every week anyway.

Tim Elmore [00:38:23]:
So I feel like we need to seek out those that are unlike us and we need to build trust. So the big misconception you just asked about is that we assume since we got the badge on we’re the leader, that they’ll trust us in our leadership. Trust must be earned. And it’s earned through time and it’s earned through credibility, making good decisions, follow through, keeping your promises, those kinds of things. So yeah, I feel like that’s. But here’s another misconception. I think very many of us, I’m going to put us in the same category, Tim, that are over 40, just look at Gen Z on the surface and go, man, they don’t want to work. They don’t really want to work.

Tim Elmore [00:39:02]:
You know, they seem lazy and they leave right at 5 and not a minute later. Like, I want to get out of here as soon as I can. But you’ve heard me say this, I think on another podcast.

Tim Newman [00:39:13]:
Yeah.

Tim Elmore [00:39:14]:
When I met with my focus groups, I started hearing another story. They said, oh no, we want to work. We want to work about with something we’re passionate about. Right? But one young lady said to me, tim, can I. Dr. Tim? She said, can I tell you why I leave right at five? I said, yeah. She said, I leave right at five because I have to run over to another job. I don’t make enough money at this first job to pay the bills here in la.

Tim Elmore [00:39:40]:
And then after that second job I have to rush over to take care of my mother who has stage four cancer. So suddenly I’m realizing when I hear that, oh, she does work, actually maybe better than I do, but I stop stereotyping and maybe listen a little bit and find out maybe There’s a great human being inside that 22 year old body that I need to get to know and trust. And who knows, maybe they’ll be leading the organization one day when it’s all said and done.

Tim Newman [00:40:07]:
Yeah. And I think that comes back down to just having informal conversations.

Tim Elmore [00:40:11]:
Yeah, it does. You know each other?

Tim Newman [00:40:13]:
Yeah, it used, it used to be called, you know, management by walking around. And I’m not talking about that, but, but just, you know, what, how you do what’s going on, what’s going on with you. And if you start the conversation, they’ll tell you what’s going on, they’ll tell you about themselves and you know, it’s. I think both sides need to get over whatever it is and just start the conversation.

Tim Elmore [00:40:37]:
Yeah, no doubt.

Tim Newman [00:40:39]:
And then it rolls.

Tim Elmore [00:40:41]:
Yeah, yeah.

Tim Newman [00:40:43]:
So what does confident communication look like for somebody who’s a gen Z? Because they communicate, again, very different. Differently than we do.

Tim Elmore [00:40:52]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, I have found in many cases we need to teach soft skills to them. You talked about that as you helped with the podcast. Interpersonal skills were rarely developed on a screen during the pandemic. They fell behind by about two years, the average gen. This is data, not insults.

Tim Newman [00:41:11]:
No, this is it real.

Tim Elmore [00:41:12]:
So. So cognitively advanced. They’re smart as a whip, but socially and emotionally behind. So we’re gonna have to build those soft skills intentionally into their life. And by the way, it may be as simple as I want you to look me in the eye when you talk to me. I want you to shake my hand when you walk through that door and I’ll shake yours. And I’m gonna treat you with respect, and I expect you to treat me with respect. Those are fundamentals, but we may have to teach them because they’re not automatically happening.

Tim Newman [00:41:39]:
Yeah, yeah, probably. Probably. The last two years that I was teaching, I almost had to stop teaching my content area and was almost strictly focusing on when the soft skills because if you, it doesn’t matter what you know, if you can’t communicate, if you, if you can’t have a conversation with somebody, it just doesn’t really matter.

Tim Elmore [00:41:57]:
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Yeah. So. So let me share one thing about that.

Tim Newman [00:42:03]:
Okay.

Tim Elmore [00:42:04]:
As an older guy, I have had to learn what Charles Duhigg taught years, years ago, that when you’re interacting with someone, you’re having a conversation or you’re communicating to them as a audience, you need to know what kind of conversation they need to have.

Tim Newman [00:42:21]:
Yes.

Tim Elmore [00:42:22]:
It’s either a practical conversation, a social conversation, or an emotional Conversation. And here’s how he defines that. A practical conversation commonly happens at work. It’s just information. We need to transfer some information. Not a lot of emotion. Here’s some facts, here’s the deadline, here’s the date it’s due, et cetera. That’s practical.

Tim Elmore [00:42:43]:
And you and I as older guys, just got used to a lot of practical, that much emotion. Let’s just get the job done. Very often, a younger team member might want to have a social conversation. So maybe they want to get into last weekend’s party they went to. And I don’t mean to stereotype, but let’s just say that’s the topic. I need to stop correcting that. It was the 15th, not the 16th or something like that. That doesn’t matter.

Tim Newman [00:43:08]:
Doesn’t matter, right?

Tim Elmore [00:43:09]:
Yeah, they’re just trying to share a social. Just enjoy it with them, laugh with them, affirm them, say, I’m so glad you got some refreshment time. But here’s the clincher. I find that many times a Gen Z or one needs to have an emotional conversation where it’s very emotional and they start in with facts or data, but it’s not about data at all. They’re feeling inadequate, maybe, or they’re feeling I didn’t measure up or something. And I need to recognize that and affirm what I can. So I’m going to give a very personal illustration, Tim, on this one. I missed it with my own young adult daughter.

Tim Elmore [00:43:49]:
Bethany’s in her 30s and she’s a wonderful counselor down in Orlando, Florida. Just a very good therapist. She is married to Ben, but they’re not parents yet. So she and I are in the car alone together, just driving one day, just happened to have some time together. She goes, dad, I got a question for you. I’m ready for a practical conversation at this point, by the way.

Tim Newman [00:44:13]:
And it wasn’t so.

Tim Elmore [00:44:14]:
Bethany goes, dad, if you were to go see a counselor about a parenting issue, would you rather go see a counselor that was a parent or go to see one that maybe wasn’t a parent, but they’d done all their research and they were ready to go, thinking I was having a practical conference?

Tim Newman [00:44:32]:
I know what you said. I bet I know what you said.

Tim Elmore [00:44:35]:
Well, all things being equal, I think I’d go to one that was actually a parent. So they go, oh, I’ve been through the same thing, you know. Well, Bethany was quiet and goes, okay. Didn’t really say much the rest of the drive. We got home, she hopped out of the car, went into the home first. I pulled the car in the garage. But when I walked inside, I could not find her. And when I walked upstairs, I looked in her room and she.

Tim Elmore [00:45:00]:
Tears were just coming down her cheeks. I did not realize I had just unaffirmed her. I had said, bethany, I wouldn’t choose you. That’s for sure. I’d choose somebody that had some credibility. And I just realized, holy moly. She was needing dad to say Bethany, right. You’re adequate.

Tim Elmore [00:45:21]:
I’d go see you. I’ll stop there. But I’m just saying leaders need to know what communication is needed in the moment and lead before they lead. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:45:35]:
I’m sorry that. But I’ve done this. I’ve done very similar. I grew up with three brothers, so I grew up, I mean, male dominated. My mom is and was a saint. I’m married and I’ve got two daughters. And the amount of times I’ve said things and yeah, I’ve gotten to look. Why would you say that? Yeah, but it’s.

Tim Newman [00:45:54]:
It is what it is. And yeah. And we learn from. And the key is to learn. Hope the audience gets it. The key is to learn from that.

Tim Elmore [00:46:01]:
Yes.

Tim Newman [00:46:02]:
And in whatever situation it is, maybe before you respond, you ask a question to get some clarity or whatever, but learn from those things just like we’re asking our students to do the same thing.

Tim Elmore [00:46:14]:
Yes, absolutely. No doubt about it.

Tim Newman [00:46:18]:
Where can people find you to work with you? Find out what’s going on with Gen Z and get more information.

Tim Elmore [00:46:24]:
Yeah, thanks for asking, Tim. It’s been a great conversation. Well, probably the easiest way to find me and a bunch of free stuff is. Is my own website, Tim Elmore.com Tim Elmore.com Growing Leaders is out there. It’s a Maxwell nonprofit that I started over 20 years ago. You could get curriculum for teaching soft skills to young people. But I would say too, yeah, I would love to help with Gen Z. If you’ve got Gen Z and you’re managing it somewhere, somehow.

Tim Elmore [00:46:53]:
My book is called the Future begins with Z9 strategies to lead Generation Z as they Disrupt the Workplace. And it’s on Amazon or anywhere good books are sold. But that might be a good guidebook for you to use just to make sure you’re getting it right along the way.

Tim Newman [00:47:09]:
Tim, it’s a great guidebook. It’s a great guidebook. I’ll just be honest with you. Not only did I read the book when we went to see the kids for Thanksgiving, we listened to the book on the way back from Thanksgiving too. There’s so much gold in there, so many good ideas and value. Can’t thank you enough, number one for writing the book. But I also can’t thank you enough for spending some time with us and giving us this information that hopefully people can go and start to do and change things and lead Gen Z better starting today. Not next week, not tomorrow, but today.

Tim Newman [00:47:52]:
Has to start happening today.

Tim Elmore [00:47:54]:
Absolutely. I’m with you all the way. They will make us better leaders if we’ll let them. Thanks Tim.

Tim Newman [00:47:59]:
I appreciate it Tim again, thanks so much. Take care and we’ll talk to you soon. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Forming for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change your world. We’ll talk to you next time. Take care.