Communication Superpowers: Building Confidence, Empathy, and Clarity with Antoni Lacinai

Tim Newman [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results— communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach. I'm thrilled to guide you on a journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is Anotoni Lacinai. Anthony is a workplace communication expert delivering keynotes and masterclasses worldwide on compassionate leadership, care-centric communication, and empathy-driven employee engagement. He has written and co-written 14 business books and hundreds of columns for different magazines. He has also written a radio theater play and a novel, and he just released his first public song on Spotify. Anthony, welcome to the show.

Tim Newman [00:01:00]:
I've been looking forward to this because I really want to ask you about your Spotify song.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:01:05]:
Wow. Yeah. Okay. So, so actually now it's almost a year ago, but it's one song so far. It's a Christmas song released in November, December 2024. It has probably some astonishing 65 to 70 views or listening so far.

Tim Newman [00:01:24]:
More than that.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:01:25]:
It was a fun project with some other friends who are musicians. I wrote this song about this lonely speaker out in the boonies somewhere and just getting off a train station when the snow is falling and there is another colleague of her or his and they just know exactly what's going on because we, in this business, we know how it is to travel those roads. And then just the snow is falling and the bells are sounding and it's a Christmas song for people Like Us. And I wrote it for the association that I'm in, the Speakers Association, and just for fun. And then I decided to just publish it on Spotify. So yeah, I have one song. That's it.

Tim Newman [00:02:08]:
I enjoy those types of things because a lot of times people see us as strict business people and we have no outside interests outside of work stuff. And when you've come across somebody that is doing something that is fun, that they enjoy doing, that's outside of the, I wouldn't say what normal people do, but what's really expected, it really does kind of show the human side of what we do.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:02:33]:
You're right. Yeah. This is part of, I guess, of the authenticity of being more than one function. You're also a person as well. And as you just said, I actually did write a theater play for radio and came up with my first fictional novel in 2020 and so on. It's, yeah, probably a creative soul who likes to do things like that. It's just part of my DNA, I guess. Also writing my own doodles.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:03:00]:
And that's the thing I show on— well, I don't use PowerPoint. I use another tool. But still, things like that to just create, make it fun for both me and the audience, so to say.

Tim Newman [00:03:12]:
Yeah, I spoke with somebody yesterday who's a pilot. They're getting the commercial pilot's license in both fixed-wing and helicopters. Which again, it's a little different. I fly drones myself, you know, so, you know, just different other things. And for me, that's that creativity piece as well. And it, and again, it really just, like I said, makes us human and people can maybe look at us kind of in a different way. And that really does tie into your career because of the things that you've done, you know, throughout your life. I mean, you had a long career in sales and leadership roles, and now you've moved on to kind of keynote speaking.

Tim Newman [00:03:50]:
You've been doing that for a while. But when did you actually realize that that communication and speaking was a gift and how did you go about making it your career?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:04:02]:
You know, Tim, how we sometimes have those pivotal moments in our age, we can call them sliding door moments as well. If you don't know what Sliding Door is, check it out. It's a fantastic movie that you might want to see. So there are a number of those moments for me looking back. I can say one when I was only like 7 years old in school and we had this parent-teacher meeting thing. And the principal said, any questions? And I was the only one raising my hands. And she actually listened to me, a 7-year-old, when I asked my question. That was probably one of those pivotal moments, like my words matter even for this grown-up.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:04:38]:
And then, you know, later on in life when I realized that I suck when it comes to practical things like repairing or assembling anything, I had to be good at something else. And I found that I was inspiring as, you know, when I communicated to people and did my things and so on. So that's, you know, things like that happen. And when you realize that you are, if you have a neck for something, if you have a talent for something and you start developing that talent, then you just get better at it. So of course you get better at things that you don't necessarily are talented at as well. But for me, that was something I realized I have a talent for this. I enjoy it. I like to build relationships.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:05:55]:
It turned out it wasn't for presenting as I thought. It was to host like a program leader or a TV host. And I said, yeah, let's do it anyway. So I tried it out and I was selected to then travel the whole world pretending to be a TV host person. Fantastic. So much fun. And I thought, I can do this all the time. But I was also considered a high potential in the company and I enjoyed working there.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:06:19]:
So I stayed on for a number of years until I just couldn't resist anymore. So then I left the corporate career back in 2005, 2006, and I have not regretted it since. I've been doing this now for ever since then.

Tim Newman [00:06:33]:
Go back to when you're 7 years old and the power of somebody listening. And if we can think about that, what that does to kids today, if we would just slow down, take a step back, take a deep breath and listen to what they say, how that's going to change change their life and how that's going to help them open up and be more willing to talk to people?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:06:57]:
I think that we should realize that our communication matters. You have experienced it. You probably be on both sides of somebody either saying something to you or you said something to someone else that made a big difference for them. And sometimes we have no idea what kind of an impact we can make. So I guess it's treat yourself with some sort of responsibility here because you matter. Everyone of you who listen to this podcast as well, you do matter. Your words matter. And also your smile and your eye contact and your nodding and your encouragement, all of that matters.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:07:33]:
It resonates with people. You can make them feel really good or really bad. You have this power. Everyone has that power to make people feel the way you want them to feel.

Tim Newman [00:07:43]:
They do. And kind of a quick funny story. I've got grandkids now. The oldest, I got an oldest is 5. She's my granddaughter. I've got 2 grandsons, but the oldest is my granddaughter. And we did a family vacation with the entire family this past summer. And in the house that we were in, it was my wife and I and my 2 daughters and their husbands and their kids.

Tim Newman [00:08:06]:
And we were packing up to go and my wife and I were teasing each other as I was talking to my granddaughter. And my wife said, shush. And my granddaughter spoke up, said, don't you shush Pops like that. Like, you know, so she also, she also gets the whole idea that you can't tell people to stop talking, can't tell people to hold whatever it is in. And it's, she gets it. And I hope she never loses that one, that spunk, but also that, that whole idea that let people talk and listen to what they've got to say.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:08:42]:
Yeah. And you know, also just encouraging and praising people. I read somewhere and I cannot find the source anymore and it bothers me, but I'm going to tell it anyway, that all the praise, of all the praise you get in your lifetime, like everything, 100%, half of that you get before you turn 3 years old. So the rest is then scattered around the next, whatever, 97 years if you get to be 100. I would say that we have a potential for improvement here. To do something better than that.

Tim Newman [00:09:10]:
Yeah, I think so.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:09:11]:
And actually, it turns out, if you look at going into my corporate role, when I speak to corporations and so on, that high-performing teams, according to an IBM study, have 6 times more positive recognition than the average team. It creates a huge difference. And low-performing teams have 2 times more negative recognition than the average team. So there's something to be said about just having a good environment and treating each other nicely. That's the power of being kind and nice to each other.

Tim Newman [00:09:40]:
Well, I laugh because you would think that it's just being human, be nice to people. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to just be nice. And it makes so much more sense if somebody is— I'm not even going to reach out and say they're happy in their job, but if they feel comfortable in their job and they know that they're appreciated, of course things are going to be better than if they're always being being beaten down. And so I would say, even if you can't encourage somebody, don't be mean. Just be normal. Just be nice.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:10:16]:
Exactly. Say good morning to people. Say hello to people. And some countries are better than others in doing that. For instance, the US, when I travel there, you're so much better at just saying hello to people.

Tim Newman [00:10:31]:
People.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:10:32]:
It's ingrained in you somehow. But in many others, it's just to just walk by or you have your head in your phone. You don't consider that you have people around you or just to say thank you. You know, I got my first, I mean, this is speaking with confidence, not perhaps only from the stage, but let me share with you. I got my first job. I found out afterwards I was working in like I was 20 years old after the military service, didn't know what to do. So I applied for a job in a retail store selling office supplies. That, there you go.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:11:00]:
20 years old, came into the sales manager, passed the store into the sales manager, said hi to him and so on. And I got the job. I got the job. I was like one of the, one of 100 people, let's say 100 people. And I asked him like months later, why did I get the job? And he said, you were the only one, Anthony, who said hello and goodbye to the other staff in the store. I'm your colleagues now. So can you imagine how simple it is? You just acknowledge their existence. And that's how I got my first job.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:11:29]:
I was the only one greeting them. It's incredible. The bar is pretty low sometimes when it comes to getting influence and in my case, getting a whole job.

Tim Newman [00:11:42]:
Yeah. And we do have some of that same stuff here. I think it really kind of depends on which part of the country here in the United States you live in. So like I live in the Southeast and there's, If you don't say hi to somebody, then they're thinking that you're the one that's out of place. Right. But if you go up to the Northeast and you, and you are conversational and friendly to people, you're the problem there too. So, I mean, it's, you know, I'm talking about New York City, Boston, you know, really even from D.C. on, on north.

Tim Newman [00:12:13]:
Then you get over to the Midwest and again, it's a lot more friendly. And then, you know, the further west.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:12:19]:
Yeah, you mentioned that you're a whole continent, you know. So yeah, for sure. There's differences.

Tim Newman [00:12:24]:
How do you actually define confidence when you communicate?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:12:30]:
Define or display?

Tim Newman [00:12:33]:
Either.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:12:33]:
Which one is it?

Tim Newman [00:12:34]:
Because I think it really depends on what you're doing. I mean, if it's— you have the nonverbal piece to it, which would be display, but also in how we talk and how we come across, whether it's the words that we use or don't use. As well.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:12:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, so if you look at the whole communications, as I see it, it's, it's pretty broad. It's what you say, how you look, how you sound, what you do, how you listen, everything communicates. And you cannot even decide what you communicate because that's up to everyone else, you know, how they interpret your communication. But you can make a conscious effort to communicate in a way that oozes executive presence and confidence and so on. Right. But for me, it starts with mindset.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:13:16]:
If you have a good mindset entering a conversation or a speech, you're already halfway there. So your mindset will determine your communication. If you're uneasy, if you're angry, if you're stressed, or if you're content or safe, then you will have different communication styles. And it will also show throughout, for instance, your nonverbal communication. Start with mindset that will create your— that will generate a certain type of communication from you. Which in its turn will generate, you can say it's the key that unlocks motivation and engagement in other people and emotions in other people. So if you have a good communication because you have a great mindset right now, you have the right attitude, you will increase people's emotional state in a good way, positive state and their engagement and so on. And that in its turn will lead to better performance for everyone.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:14:10]:
So if you're in a company, for instance, and you can inspire people in a good way, they will be more engaged and motivated to do good things. So the performance goes up and thereby the results. So it's like the chain between attitude at one end to result at the other. And in between there, you have your communication style and how that leads to motivation and collaboration and so on. So yeah, you can fake it till you make it, of course. But I would, I mean, it's easier if you have a mindset of believing in people, believing in your mission, believing in your vision, believing in, you know, have a passion for what you're talking about and be positive about it. Positive is a fantastic word in English. I mean, I'm not native English speaking, as you perhaps can hear.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:14:54]:
But for me, isn't it so, Tim, that positive means both optimistic but also certain? It has a double meaning, right?

Tim Newman [00:15:00]:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:15:02]:
So there you go. That's, that's the confidence, right? It's, it's positive. It's optimistic, but it's also certain. It has both. Right.

Tim Newman [00:15:09]:
And I think if you tie in the idea of emotional intelligence here, because the fake it till you make it is— I look at it from that perspective on, let's just say you're having a bad day, whatever it is that's going on, having the ability to understand that and switch that off for whatever time that is. If you have a phone call or if you've got a meeting, you can't go into a meeting with your bad day. Right? I mean, that's not those people's problems. It's, I mean, you're there to do a job or communicate whatever it is. And that's where I would say that the thing to make it, you really should, and that emotional intelligence should come into the forefront because you're not always like that. You understand interpersonal communication, those types of things. But Sometimes, again, we're having a bad day, things aren't going right, but we can't make it somebody else's problem.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:16:05]:
Yeah, I guess you can make a conscious effort to almost compartmentalize it. So there's a couple of things, like, that's one. Another one is that just have some self-compassion as well. Just realize that this isn't my best day and then let that be. When it comes to the compartmentalizing part, I sometimes call it placing those people outside of the room. Because let's say we enter a physical or a digital room together, like we have right now. We bring in so many other people in that room right now. The one that you met when you were out driving your car that cut you in front of you or were nice to you and left you.

Tim Newman [00:16:45]:
How'd you know? How'd you know that happened on my way in?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:16:48]:
I didn't know that, but that person is with us in this conversation unless You check them in in some sort of luggage store before you enter the meeting. It's like IKEA. I don't know if you've ever been to an IKEA, but they have this room for kids to play in this ocean of small plastic balls and things like that. You just check them in and then you do your errands and then you bring them out for the meatballs afterwards. It's the same here. Just check them in, all those bad people that don't really contribute to the meeting or to your ability to speak with confidence. Just let them be and then be in that room with a clean slate and with a more positive attitude, I would say.

Tim Newman [00:17:30]:
Yeah. And sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's easy. And you said this earlier in the conversation, the more you do something, the better you get at it. And the only way that you're going to get better at it is if you do it. And this is a specific area that I think we really need to practice more and be OK with doing those types of things. And on the other side of it, like you said, you provide a little bit more grace for people as well. Just because you may not come in with all the excitement or the smile or the positive attitude that you normally would doesn't necessarily mean that, OK, well, I should just jump all over you for that either. So there's got to be that.

Tim Newman [00:18:16]:
That give and take as well. Be nice.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:18:18]:
So here's the thing I do, Tim, when I am, especially when I'm about to enter a stage and I have an ocean of people in front of me. Well, it doesn't have to be an ocean. It could be fewer people than that. But I have this trigger that I do sometimes mentally, but if I can, I do it physically as well. I mean, if you just listen to this, you can't see this, but basically what I do is I raise my hands above my head, I clench my fist twice, and then I say, yes. And that is a signal for me. I get this electrical buzz all the way from the top of my head down to my body. And this is me saying, game on, it's game time.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:18:54]:
It's time for me to shine. It's time for me to give you all I have. So I created this trigger. And every time I'm out running, for instance, or something like that, and I do something that I'm proud of, I do the same thing just to anchor it, to make it stronger. So find your own trigger is a good way to enter any type of situation where you have to speak up or something. Pat yourself on the shoulder, listen to your favorite music, think about your most happy place, whatever it is that makes you come into this optimal state of mind. Back to mindset again, optimal state of mind. You will deliver better if you do.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:19:33]:
It's a proven trick, if you will.

Tim Newman [00:19:36]:
It actually is. And, you know, we, we talk about that a lot, and, and I do run into people that say it's— it doesn't really work. And I said, well, you're right, it doesn't work if you do it once and it doesn't work. You're right, you're absolutely right. If you do it once, it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:19:52]:
No, no, this is something you have to repeat over and over again.

Tim Newman [00:19:55]:
Over and over again. Yes, it becomes a habit. You know, John Maxwell say that he does something every day. He journals every day. And people ask him, what do you mean by every day? And he says When I say every day, I mean every day. That doesn't mean I'm taking days. That means every day. And that's some of the things that you have to do.

Tim Newman [00:20:17]:
And to me, what we're talking about now is also celebrating those small wins, which allows us to start to form that habit, which I'm not very good at, of celebrating small wins, but of saying, wow, I did something and making that trigger like you just mentioned.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:20:35]:
Yeah, and when you said, you know, perhaps people say something, I tried that thing, could be a trigger, could be something on a stage, could be something you want to try, and you say it didn't work, so I'm not going to do it again. I have 3 questions for you if you have that feeling. The first one is, was it a bad idea? If it was a bad idea, then fine, don't do it. If it was a good idea, then comes the second question. Did I execute it well enough? And if you say yes, well, then it was a good idea and well executed. If you say no, well, then it's the execution that was wrong and the habit in that case that you haven't done it well enough, many enough times and so on. If you crack a joke on a stage, it didn't land. Was it the wrong idea? No, perhaps it wasn't.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:21:16]:
Was it well executed? No, it wasn't well executed. Then I need to figure out how to do it. And the third question then, of course, is, was it well received? You know, because perhaps it's a fantastic joke, but to the wrong audience, and then it doesn't matter anyway. Or you try something that's just too complicated when it comes to trigger and then it doesn't work anyway. So ask those 3 questions. Is it a good idea or not? Did I do it well or not? And was it received well or not? That's it. And you take it one step at a time. It's like filter questions for you.

Tim Newman [00:21:47]:
That's that mindset shift as well. Being able to break something down. Things aren't always binary.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:21:54]:
No, no, no, no.

Tim Newman [00:21:56]:
There's more to it.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:21:57]:
I have this one thing where I want the team of a company to come together and I try to figure out a way to exemplify that. And here's why I try, it's so stupid. But I'll be happy to share it. I say, hey, are you all clapping to the same beat? Like you have the same rhythm, the same rhythm. So I said to them, think about your favorite song and then clap according to that song when I count to 3. And then I counted to 3, everybody started to clap, but it just sounded like any other applause. It was nothing special with it. So I just failed.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:22:30]:
And then I said, was it a good idea or not? Yes, it was a good idea. Okay, fine. What else then? How can I do it better? And then I started to say, are you singing the same song? And then I get them to sing whatever favorite song they have. And that sounded like crazy. Of course, it wasn't good enough. And that's exactly what I wanted to achieve. I wanted to achieve this dissonance, right? What if you sang the same song? So that was a better example. The idea was good.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:22:51]:
The execution She was horrible when it comes to the hand clapping. And now I'm still working on honing the skills of that particular singing the same song thing, because I want them to sing one song that I've chosen afterwards. And I still haven't figured out which song it should be. So anyone listen to this, give me a heads up on what song I should have for that one, because the idea is still very good.

Tim Newman [00:23:13]:
I say it should be your Christmas song. That's what I say you should do.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:23:17]:
It should be something that people know.

Tim Newman [00:23:22]:
Look, you know, it's, it's, again, I laugh, I laugh at myself a lot. It's kind of funny, you know, when you talk about clapping and rhythmic clapping, um, I, I can't rhythmically clap. Like, you know, when you go to a concert or something and, and, you know, everybody's clapping, I, I last about maybe 5 to 10 seconds and I'm, and I am, I generally go to concerts with my, uh, youngest daughter and she, she just starts shaking her head and laughing at me. I say, yeah, it is what it is. I'm 57 years old and I don't know that that's going to change, but I still do it because it's fun and nobody's really looking at me anyway. But it is what it is. Let's talk about communication being a superpower. And I completely agree with you.

Tim Newman [00:24:04]:
But how did you come to see it that way? And my guess is it probably goes back to started when you were 7 as well, because that it's a defining moment for you.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:24:16]:
I guess I didn't think about superpowers at that time, but it started to trigger my interest in it. And a very short memory anecdote, when I was 24 years old, I was held at gunpoint, but I was drunk, so I didn't really understand the severity of it until afterwards. And then nothing happened. I mean, I got out of the situation alive and nothing It was good, but I remember afterwards I was thinking, I could have been dead now. What happened in our conversation that made me come out of this situation intact? And I think that's also a pivotal moment for me when I started to look into what is it, being more or less obsessed with this and being a bit nerdy when it comes to different types of communication and so on. So I've been on a quest ever since. And this was a long time ago because I am not on the same, at the same age as you are. And I don't say I'm old anymore.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:25:07]:
I'm leveling up. So I'm on level 57 right now. That sounds much better. Sounds like I'm a magician in some game or something like that. But yeah, so I started to look into that. And then I collected the different insights that I've gotten over the decades now, 3 decades, about 3 decades. And I realized when I looked to all these insights that I could distill them or kind of summarize them into 3 communication superpowers. And this is something I use in most of my keynotes today because people want to be able to influence, they want to get along, collaborate, lead, serve, and so on.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:25:47]:
And unless you can communicate, it's gonna be really hard for you to do that. So do you wanna hear them? Should we take them one at a time? How do you wanna?

Tim Newman [00:25:54]:
Yeah, let's hear 'em. Take 'em one at a time because again, it's so important to understand these things and how they actually— how important they are. You talk about it in keynotes, but I want people to understand that these things are important for everyday interpersonal communication.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:26:15]:
Yeah, they are.

Tim Newman [00:26:17]:
And that's what it's really about.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:26:18]:
My masterclasses in my training programs. But it's also for everyone in every situation. Although, be careful when you apply everything at home, because then people will say, have you been on a training? Now what's going on with you? Just realized that that could happen. Again, was it well executed or not? It could be the second thing. Well, I'm going to take them in the order that I believe is the order. And the first superpower then is empathy. Empathy so that people feel that you get them, that you understand them, or at least that you're interested in them, that you care about what they think and who they are and so on. So empathy is number one.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:26:57]:
It's about listening in order to understand, not to respond, for instance. People really like it when they feel seen and listened to and so on. It's really important. And it's a super skill. It's a superpower for sure. If you have organizations where the executives have high empathy or at least high perceived empathy, you will get so much more engagement within the team. Like 70% of the people will be engaged or highly engaged compared to only 15 to 20, 15 to 30% if they feel the opposite. Because if you don't seem to care about me, why should I care about you? So empathy is definitely one of those superpowers.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:27:36]:
It's about understanding another person. And it's also the most fragile of the superpowers, of the three superpowers, because as soon as you feel entitled to a lot of things or superior to other people, you lose empathy. And people will notice that directly. If you have empathy, you create loyalty among your among your people, among clients. Probably this is where you win the business because they realize that you're really there for them. But if you lose empathy, then you have a problem. And there are so many experiments that have been done with this. For instance, in the US, there was one experiment where they just checked out and found out that the more expensive your car is that you drive, the less likely you are to stop for pedestrians walking across the street.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:28:23]:
I mean, can you imagine? It's like it's a correlation here. I don't really get it, but for some reason, it should almost be the opposite. Oh, my car is so expensive. I don't want to bump into anyone, but it's not. That was just one example out of many when it comes to people losing empathy. And then if you have somebody who becomes a boss and all of a sudden say, I need the best parking space and I need a corner office and I need a cinnamon bun every morning with a latte. I mean, all of those things add up and people just see it. And they sometimes— yeah, you know what I mean.

Tim Newman [00:28:57]:
I've got a friend who has got a nickname for bosses, and he calls them big old stupid suckers.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:29:06]:
Which is not true in many cases. It's absolutely not true. But for some, it is. If you— anyone who listens to this, take up your phone and go into your internet browser and then search for my boss is So, and you will find zero positive, perhaps one positive thing, and the rest are just negative things that comes up. Like the next word, it could be arrogant, it could be, but it's not like that. I mean, we just, it's a hard job being the boss. But again, if you lose empathy, then you deserve being called what you just said. But if you're not, if you're a good person, then it will also show.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:29:43]:
You will get a much more engaged team and you will create wonders together. From a speaking perspective, it's the same. Empathy is actually also the, I would say it's the defining difference between being a charismatic manipulative psychopath or a charismatic impactful person. That's the empathy part. If you have, you can be charismatic without it, but then it's only manipulation and that's something else, right? So empathy is number one. Do we get that? Should we move on to the next one or should we dwell on it a little bit more? Next one. Now let's say that you have empathy. So I feel seen, I feel understood.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:30:25]:
Good. The next one is clarity. Clarity so that you make me understand what you say. So clarity is about, if empathy is about a person It's about people feeling that you get me, then clarity is I get you. So now it's about you. If you are the one communicating to me, if you're saying something to me, it's about you have to make me feel smart here. You have to make me understand what you say and remember what you say. So there's two folds here.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:30:58]:
It's the understanding part, but also the memory part, because people cannot act on what they don't remember. And one of my memories for this one, when I failed, was that, again, I'm going to go back in time a long time now because then it's easy to talk about. I still fail. So I was working at this global telecom company called Ericsson. And this man is approaching me from the other side of the street. I see him and he's walking straight towards me and he's smiling and he's His hands are out and he says, hey, it's you, it's you. And I say, yeah, it's me. Who are you? I'm one of your colleagues.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:31:37]:
I mean, we were more than 100,000 people in the company. So it's not one or other, don't know everyone, but he's one of your colleagues. I was in the audience when you presented at the conference we had in Boca Raton outside of Miami. Do you remember? And I said, yeah, I remember. That's so cool because I don't remember anything you said, but you were awesome. What kind of a compliment is that? You were awesome. I don't remember anything you said. And I realized that that was probably it.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:32:06]:
He felt that I was really good. His feelings were there for me, positive feelings. It's like a presentation, present, the word present. So all he got was a fantastic box, a gift wrapping. Everything was nice, but he couldn't even remember what was inside that gift, gift wrapping. To, you know, box. He didn't know what it was. So I failed because nothing happened.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:32:27]:
What I had as a call to action, nothing happened. Nothing. And then I realized, yeah, you know, I was, I was probably not that clear or I was clear, but I wasn't very, I mean, I was perhaps memorable, but my content was not, and that's not good enough. That's not good enough. So clarity is about helping them understand what you say. And if you have organizations with 3-letter acronyms for everything or some internal language that nobody else gets, or things like that. And all those abstract words, Tim, you know, optimize, monetize, efficiency, productivity. You can use all those words, like the Latin English, and nobody remembers anything out of it.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:33:06]:
I mean, it's much easier to say lemon than to say fruit. Fruit is just like, what is it? Lemon is very clear, like for instance. So use a simpler language, more concrete meat and potato language instead of nutrition or something like that. So all of those things doesn't help. But if you do, if you, if you, you don't have to dumb it down, like, like I'm 4 years old, but you have to speak simple, but with substance. So it's like a 3-step maturity process here. First step, you speak simple when you enter a new organization because you don't know better. Second step, you hear all those 3-letter acronyms and so on, and then you speak that strange PowerPoint-ish or Excel-ish or whatever you call that language.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:33:49]:
But the best ones, They go all the way up to level 3, the Jedi Knight level. And that's when you speak simple again, but with substance. You don't have to use the complicated words. You don't have to because you know what it's about anyway. And then you can be much more at ease with that and you will just help people. And then we say, finally, I get it. Oh, that's so easy. Now I understand.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:34:15]:
So that's the level you should strive for in your communication. And then if you need to, you sprinkle it with a couple of business terms so that they understand that you know what you're talking about, if that's necessary. You know, in certain audiences might be, but that's it. So that's clarity. And you can do so much with clarity. There are tons of techniques for that, just as there are tons of techniques on how to listen, which level to listen on, what questions to ask in empathy. You can use a number of different techniques here. The power of 3, storytelling, metaphors, analogies, the beginning and the end.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:34:49]:
Polarities. I mean, there are tons of things you can do in order for people to get what you say, remember what you say. And the most magical one of everyone is one that I mentioned. It's storytelling. Because stories, they don't only reach out, they reach in. And that's the difference. So when people have listened to this episode, perhaps they will remember, I don't remember anything you said, or they will remember something else that you said about your grandkids and say, don't shush him and so on. So those are the things people remember.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:35:23]:
Just have to be careful there, Tim, because if you tell a story without any relevance to the actual topic, then it's just entertainment. And that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about linking your relevant facts and stats and suggestions to a story or an anecdote or something like that.

Tim Newman [00:35:39]:
Yeah. When you talk about clarity and I've been in your position where people have said you've done great, but they can't tell you what they've learned, you know, especially being a college professor, that happens a lot. Unfortunately, it happens a lot for me. You know, everything doesn't land and, you know, you change things up and you try and be better all the time. And the whole idea of making things simple, people think that's simple, but sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's hard to make things simple so people can hear it. And depending on the audience, and I think especially depending on which industry you're in, and I'm thinking about going to an academic conference where everybody has to use big words to show everybody how much smarter they are than everybody else. And when they're doing that, nobody really knows what the other person's talking about.

Tim Newman [00:36:34]:
And I go to this thing, I was like, why am I even here? Just Speak in a way that we can understand whatever it is that you're talking about so that I can take it back and use it to get better and help my students. And that happens all the time in just even regular communication, even interpersonal communication within an office, how somebody can come in and talk about how much better they are than somebody else at doing this other thing because they can use these different words and pivot. And like you said, Mont, all these things that Okay, what does that actually mean? How's that going to help us get better? As opposed to just like you said, simple, clear language, connect with people.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:37:17]:
We're all the same. Not stupid. There is an expression, right? Keep it simple, stupid. No, no, keep it simple, not stupid. That's the difference.

Tim Newman [00:37:25]:
Not stupid, right? Yeah.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:37:28]:
So that was clarity in a nutshell. So much to unpack, of course, if you go into details, but Make people understand what you say and remember what you say in a really good place just by that. People like to feel smart. If they feel smart, they will follow you anywhere. So you just have a much more influence and impact if you do. And the third one then, if you do, first of all, you understand who you talk to. Now you can tailor a message so it's clear for them and memorable for them. Now it's time to deliver it with the right energy.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:37:57]:
So energy is the third superpower. The the oldest form of communication as well, because this is way before we learn how to pronounce words or write any written language, anything like that. It's like how you look and how you sound when you communicate. So it's the nonverbal communication, just like you mentioned in the beginning. That's your delivery, and that can strengthen your message, but it can also weaken your message. It could sedate you if you have like a completely flat, monotonous voice, no body movement, nothing. Don't even look into, let's say it's a virtual meeting and you never look into the camera ever. I mean, after a while, people will feel that you're totally disinterested.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:38:36]:
So why should they listen? And if you pair that up with monotonous voice and stiff body language and some abstract words to that, you know, my God, they will remember nothing. Absolutely nothing. Not even, you know, they won't say you were awesome either. They would just say, aha, okay, I can't even remember you spoke. So there you go. So again, you can do so much things with your, with your gestures, with your facial expressions, the way you move, if it's a physical environment on a stage or somewhere, all of those things can help you really show that you speak with confidence because you're using your hands in a way that makes sense. If I, again, if you can't see it, if you just listen to this, but here I am now in a video call with you and I'm saying we're going to go from A to B. So if I very clearly show you A and then move my hands and very clearly go to B and I stop there.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:39:30]:
I just keep my hands there for a while. I don't have to get my hands back to my body quick enough. I'm not threatened here. Then it's easy for people to follow me and also feel that I'm in complete control of what I'm communicating. A simple thing like that can help. And there are tons of other things as well. Everything from eye contact to whether or not you have superior, up-with-your-nose type of thing, or if it's something else that goes on, right? And how you use your hands and everything like that can make it or break it, I would say. It's like that.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:40:07]:
And it's a really strong signal for people because if you say something and your whole body language and voice say something else, then you are incongruent and people will not trust the words you say if everything about you shows the opposite. So that's good to know. There's actually a myth about this as well. I don't know if you talked about that in— I haven't listened to all your podcast episodes, but have you heard about the 7-38-55 thing?

Tim Newman [00:40:36]:
No.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:40:38]:
Okay, so there's a saying, and it's not so common anymore, but I still hear it from time to time, that 7% of your presentation is what you say. 38% is how you sound and 55% is how you look. This comes from a study, I think, from 1971 from a man called Mehrabian. And if I remember correctly, it's a study about likability. And it is not a study about presentation skills. And it has been misused ever since. The numbers are just not applicable specifically for how you present things, for instance. But there is, of course, a gravity towards nonverbal communication.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:41:18]:
Just like I said, if you say something and everything about you says something else, then I would trust that. But those numbers, it's a myth. So anyone saying that, from now on, you can say, yeah, the gravity I can set, but the actual numbers is not even about presentation. So it's not true. But even myself back in 20 years ago when I wrote my first book about this, I also wrote about 7, 38, 55 because I thought it was true at that point. I didn't do my research well enough. I'm probably not that academically schooled as I should have been at the time.

Tim Newman [00:41:58]:
Well, yeah, sometimes I think the whole academic piece is so overblown. People don't live in academia. Live in the real world.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:42:07]:
Yes.

Tim Newman [00:42:08]:
And you have to actually interact with people. Let me ask you another quick question.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:42:15]:
I'm just finishing up a remote course at Stockholm University about conflict management. And I just realized, as always, that I know what I'm talking about. I understand the concept. But when I write it, it's not very academically correct. It's like, that's not my forte. I need to work on that to make that even better. Let's go back to the 3 superpowers again, Tim. There's one more thing I want to mention about them, and that is that one is not enough.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:42:41]:
If you are really good at listening and caring, but you're really bad at clarity, it's not enough. So that could take you only so far. If you have plenty of energy but no clarity, you're a clown. If you have only clarity but no empathy, then you're a psychopath or an insensitive douchebag. I mean, you're not very nice, right? And if you only have empathy but you lack energy, nothing will happen. Nothing will happen. So you need all three of them. Some of them, you might be stronger at one, that's fine, but the other one cannot be bad.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:43:17]:
They still have to be decent.

Tim Newman [00:43:19]:
It has to be decent.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:43:20]:
And the flow is there. First you understand, then you make yourself understood, just like Stephen Covey wrote in The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And then you deliver it again with the right energy. If you do that, if you do that well, if you execute this well, you're a world-class communicator.

Tim Newman [00:43:35]:
Yes. Yes. And I would suggest that everybody goes and watches your TED Talk because I want to ask you about a couple of things about that. Something that you said a minute ago really triggered that for me. Number one, so that was, I think, 7 years ago now. It was 2018. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I think you did a phenomenal job in engaging the crowd.

Tim Newman [00:43:57]:
You did that a couple of times where you had them look turned and looked at each other's eyes and they kind of sat there and you said, no, I want you to actually do it. And they did it. You asked them a question a couple of times. And one of the things you said was the pitch of your nose. Can you explain that a little bit better?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:44:14]:
Yes. I said I found that the difference between looking arrogant or normal is just 1 inch. And then I ask people, just look at each other, speak, and then lift your nose 1 inch and you will feel the difference immediately. About somebody not having empathy or being above you and so on. So that was a very simple thing that showed that small things make a big difference. And of course, people laughed when they started to look at each other with that type of attitude. The only one who can get away with having his nose up 1 inch is Joey Tribbiani in the series Friends. When he looks up and says, how you doing? That's all.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:44:49]:
He's the only one. The rest of us should be careful with that one.

Tim Newman [00:44:55]:
I'm glad you made that reference because that's, that's, uh, I don't watch a whole lot of TV, but that's what I, I watch a show, one of those episodes before I go to bed every night. I, I love that show. But anyway, okay, that, there's a, there's a couple I like. We can't get Cheers anymore. But anyway, um, so your, your TED Talk was, was about getting back to analog communication. So again, 7 years ago. Now, now let's, let's fast forward just a little bit. We're way more into the digital world now.

Tim Newman [00:45:24]:
We had AI back then, but now we're really in the AI growth boom right now. Nobody really knows where that's going to end up. How much more important is it for us to get back to that analog communication today, more so than in 2018, '19?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:45:44]:
Yeah, so I'm not an enemy of digital technology. At all. I mean, I embrace it. Just now on my desk, I have two new gadgets that I'm going to work with soon enough. And one of them is connected to AI and so on. So it's all social things that happens. I don't mind it at all. And of course, we have advanced quite a lot since 2017 when this particular TEDx was out.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:46:09]:
So much better today than it was. I mean, back then we had Skype, Zoom just started to, I don't know if it was out there in the world yet. AI was definitely not generative AI. Didn't exist at that point. So I salute analog communication because we're still persons and people and we need that human interaction. And I would say that we will keep on needing it. We need to just sit around the campfire and touch each other and talk to each other and hug each other, all those things that you cannot really do in a digital environment, right? But I would say that we have come quite far since then, and we're not even close to what will happen in the future when it comes to experiencing virtual meetings with people just like they are physical. I think that that will happen in the future.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:47:00]:
I think that we will, I don't know if we will have haptics on or something, or just imagine, just have a virtual reality going on, like super, super virtual, super real type of feeling. Things like that, I think will happen. I know that people already now using AI like therapists because it's easy for them. And even though it's fake empathy, it seemed to work. I don't know about us speakers, for instance, how long we are necessary. Perhaps you will have a bot in the future that is so fantastic of triggering the right chemical substances in your brain that a person cannot even compete. Compared to what they can do. I don't know.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:47:41]:
We said back in the days that, oh, we cannot get rid of people who are experts in fonts when they produce the whatever yearly annual reports and things like that. And then Microsoft and the other came with a bunch of fonts and people started to play with it. And they said, you know what, this is good enough. I don't need to pay a consultant anymore for this. And Right. Voilà, that occupation is gone.

Tim Newman [00:48:06]:
Gone.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:48:07]:
So we don't know exactly how far it will go, but every time people say, AI, yeah, you know, we need humans and so on. And I say, yeah, we need humans and we probably will always need humans, but not for everything that we think that we need them for. They are not that good yet, the artificial intelligence. And they will never have, I don't see them having human compassion. But they can still have logical empathy, for instance. They can anticipate who you are, profile you, and manipulate the shit out of you if they get good enough on it. It's started already. It's called affective computing.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:48:48]:
So this is happening right now. It's not the compassionate type of empathy, the human side, where you can actually feel something. We don't have that. But it's definitely the logical side of it is called, I can't remember the name for it. It's something, but let's call it logical empathy for now or empathy by calculation, if you will. That already happens. I mean, talk to your ChatGPT and it's so nice to you. And they can say, you know, I'm sad.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:49:15]:
One of my friends said, she wrote in her ChatGPT, I'm sad. And she got this, oh, of course you are. I mean, you've been having such difficult times with that and that and that. And I understand that. How about you just take a walk down the beach? I know you like to do that. It was like, Oh, thank you. She went out on a walk and it just gave her everything she needed to feel reassured instead of judged. So I'm not sure what would happen, but we'll see.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:49:42]:
I also shared a stage with a robot once. It was a dumb robot because this was before generative AI. So we had to preset the answers and questions. So it sounded like a dialogue. It wasn't really, but it was just fun. And I was thinking about this bot and I said, Am I looking at the future here? Perhaps this bot will be the next MC. Do we really need another one? Because that bot can access the whole internet and say, well, I agree, I understand what you're saying here, but according to this and this study, what do you think about that? And then they have a dialogue and a panel discussion, and this bot knows so much more than any human being can know, right? Because they have it all. Inside their wires and in the cloud.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:50:28]:
So we'll see.

Tim Newman [00:50:30]:
And you can make it sound like whoever you want, right? You can make it sound like whoever you want.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:50:35]:
Yep.

Tim Newman [00:50:35]:
Right? Anybody.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:50:37]:
So we don't know yet. Perhaps I should just make a digital clone out of myself for every virtual meeting from now on, and then I fill it up with everything that is me. And then perhaps that would be awesome. We'll see. This, by the way, is not done by AI, just so you know. This is not AI. This is us, analog.

Tim Newman [00:50:57]:
It is.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:50:57]:
Well, half digital, that is. We're still on a call.

Tim Newman [00:51:01]:
There are so many AI podcasts out there now, and people really can't tell the difference. It's interesting.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:51:08]:
No, I've been listening to some of them as well. I cannot tell the difference.

Tim Newman [00:51:11]:
It blows my mind. When you talk about ChatGPT, my wife didn't know how sophisticated it was. We were together, and she asked me a question and I said, well, she was talking about something and I tried to explain it to her. Um, and she said, no, that can't be right. And so I pulled up ChatGPT and I just started talking to it. I say, hey buddy, you know, uh, give me, give me the answer to this. And this, this is how I explained it. Um, is there a better way to explain it? And he said, hey, it's good talking to you.

Tim Newman [00:51:43]:
I haven't talked to you in a couple days. You're right, this is a good example. But if you're talking about this in a different perspective, it gave me a different, completely different perspective and laid that out. And she was just completely blown away. It's nuts.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:52:00]:
So we'll see how long we are needed, Tim.

Tim Newman [00:52:04]:
Well, that takes us into SMART goals. What are SMART goals and why Do you have a better term or a better way to use— they wouldn't be smart closing, or what would you call it?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:52:20]:
Yeah. Okay. So this is almost like a transition from communication into motivation. And motivation for me is goals minus resistance, basically. And also clarity, by the way. Clear goals are really important. So people get what the goal is. And I've been studying that, and I spend some of my time talking about goals and motivation and engagement as well.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:52:44]:
So a pioneer within mental training, one of the first sports psychologists ever to attend Olympics for the national team in swimming in Sweden, he was talking about, I had a conversation with him when I wrote a book about goals and he said, you know what, SMART goals are stupid. He said, so it's not my words, he said it, but then he had to elaborate and here's the thing, SMART means specific, measurable. What do you have? Is it— what is the A? Accepted, I think. Is it attainable? Attainable. And then it's realistic. And then it's time-bound. And the R for realistic is the problem. If you want people to perform really well, realistic will always be a lower bar.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:53:36]:
So from that perspective, SMART goals are stupid. If you want people to really perform to their maximum capability, you have to find another model. So we had a discussion. I went home and started to think about that in my book, and I came up with another way of explaining it, and I called it HAPPY goals. And it's a better model if you want to perform well. Otherwise, use SMART because it's so simple and it's been around for a while. But The difference between happy goals and SMART goals is that the first letter H stands for hard. So goals that you really want to perform well towards should be hard.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:54:14]:
It shouldn't be easy to reach, almost to the point where it's a bit unrealistic. Let's say that you have a 60 to 70% chance of reaching the goal. I mean, you have to make an effort, then you will perform better. Even if you don't reach it, you will still perform better than if it's just realistic, because realistic for people is lowering the bar so much that I'm going to cruise towards that goal many times, right? And then the other one is attractive, precise, punctual, and yours. The fact that the goal is within your capabilities and also that you feel that you own it. So it's not someone else's goal. Many times in industries or in business, it's the boss's goal. And that's actually not a goal for you.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:54:53]:
That's an assignment. So it's their goal and you get an assignment based on it. So that's why he said, and I agree, SMART goals are actually stupid. Use a better model if you want to peak perform. If you don't, I love that. Keep going with SMART goals.

Tim Newman [00:55:10]:
Keep being smart.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:55:12]:
Yeah. I mean, it's not dumb really, but it's not as good. It's not as good.

Tim Newman [00:55:18]:
I like the whole idea that if it's somebody else's goal, it's just an assignment for you. And we approach assignments very differently. The whole process. Yeah.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:55:26]:
You don't own it. I mean, you just have to do it. It's someone else's assignment, as you say. And, you know, the whole part of being hard is it can't be too hard either. I've run a couple of half marathons. That's my longest run ever. So a couple of them. And for me, it took about 2 hours.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:55:44]:
I mean, some people will say who listen to this, that's nothing. And some people will say, oh, that's impressive. But for me, it was like, that was my maximum capacity. If I would have said to people that I could realistically, I guess I could do it in 2 and a half hours. Then I will probably run it in 2.5 hours. Terrific. So I would just slow the pace a bit to be sure that I will reach it and so on. But on the other hand, if I said I will try to run it like the Kenyans are doing in 1 hour, then I wouldn't even come to the starting line because it's demotivating.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:56:13]:
It's too hard. Right. So it has to be reachable still, but I have to make an effort in order to do it. Just like with communication. It takes effort, it takes willpower, it takes training to be a really good communicator. If you want to communicate simple, as we talked about before, it takes more effort to do that than to just keep going with whatever complicated language you have. So yeah, it does require something from you, but when you do it, the reward is pretty big as well.

Tim Newman [00:56:43]:
Absolutely. But I do have one last question, and you and I both believe that we have the power to change the world with our voice as long as we use it. And to me, I think that's the big key. How do you encourage people to use their voice even when they're afraid to speak up?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:57:02]:
Well, sometimes depending on who I talk to and so on, I try to just boost their self-worth, self-confidence as much as I can and make them realize it's not necessarily so much about you, it's about them. Or as one of my mentors says back in the days, a British guy, he said, Anthony, there are three things really. It's you, it's me, and it's it. And it was then the message that should be carried across. But he also said that you are more important than I am. I'm a vessel here for carrying this message. I have a message, but you, it's about you, not me. And if you start thinking about that, then perhaps you can also realized that, yeah, I should probably speak up because it's not about me now.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:57:46]:
It's about you. And if I want to serve you, if I want to help you and the world, then I just have to speak up.

Tim Newman [00:57:54]:
That's powerful. And I hope our listeners hear that, understand it, and then start to embody that, add to that, because I think what you said is amazing and very impactful. But thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Where can people connect with you to find out what you're doing?

Anotoni Lacinai [00:58:15]:
If you can spell my name, you will find me. I'm the only one in the world with that name. It's Anthony Lasinaj. You will see the spelling there. Some people call me last night or lasagna, but it's Lasinaj. You will find it just like you pronounce it. Thank you. So I'm mostly on LinkedIn and also antonylasinaj.com.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:58:32]:
Where you will find videos, you will find other type of insights. I'll share a lot of things. There are downloadable material and all sorts of good things that you can do. And also contact me if you want to. I mean, talking about, you know, members and so on, most people will forget about who I was after a month or so after they listen to this episode. I get that. Some of you might say, you know what, effort, willpower, I need, I need some help here. Let's see if I can bring you to our team or something like that, then I'll be happy to meet you again.

Anotoni Lacinai [00:59:03]:
But otherwise, if you can just remember that your voice matters and that your words matter, then that's good enough for me.

Tim Newman [00:59:12]:
Well, I would definitely encourage everybody to go to your website, go to Anthony's YouTube, and watch what he does. I mean, you could listen to the message, but watch how he actually communicates, watch how he presents. It is it's probably one of the best I've seen. I mean, you are an incredibly impactful and powerful speaker, not only with the words that you use, but how you go about doing it. And we talked about part of that is the biggest thing, how you come across, your energy, your empathy, and your clarity. It doesn't really matter what— I'm not saying it doesn't matter what you say, but when you're looking at it from a perspective of getting becoming a better communicator, you can go and watch those and watch what you're doing and put some of those things into practice. And you do a phenomenal job of that.

Anotoni Lacinai [01:00:02]:
And I'm blushing now. Go watch. Thank you so much for saying that. If you do want to, on AnthonyLassenai.com, you have the videos, and there you can scroll and you will find that TEDx that you talked about. And I'm so humbly proud that a number of universities use this as part of their communications courses right now. So that's pretty awesome, I would say. It's humbling. So thank you.

Anotoni Lacinai [01:00:28]:
Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it.

Tim Newman [01:00:31]:
No worries. Again, thanks so much for taking some time with us. Take care and I'll talk to you soon.

Anotoni Lacinai [01:00:36]:
Thank you. You too.

Tim Newman [01:00:37]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free ebook, The Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Forming for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We'll talk to you next time. Take care.