Building Real Connections: How to Communicate and Listen Across Generations

Tim Newman [00:00:10]:
We spend a lot of time teaching young people how to communicate. But what if part of the problem isn't that they don't know how to talk? What if we've forgotten how to listen? Today's guest has spent more than 30 years working with young people and has interviewed roughly 2,500 of them. About the challenges their generation faces. And what he's learned might change the way you communicate across different generations. Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results— communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on a journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is James McLamb. James is a national youth empowerment strategist, speaker, and founder of Generation Youth.

Tim Newman [00:01:03]:
With a background in education and nearly a decade of classroom experience, James equips students and the adults who serve them with the tools for resilience, confidence, and leadership. He is the author of Tomorrow's Youth and creator of the Ignite 30-Day Student Journal series and the Rooted and Ready devotional for summer camp staff. James also leads Generation Youth Coach Certification, training adults to mentor and coach teens with emotional intelligence and purpose. James, welcome to Speaking with Confidence.

James McLamb [00:01:35]:
Thank you so much for that nice introduction. And thank you for this opportunity to be able to bring some value to you and your audience. Hopefully, we'll have a wonderful time. I'm sure we're going to have a wonderful conversation today.

Tim Newman [00:01:46]:
Oh, this is going to be a great conversation. You know, you and I think a lot alike. We may come at things from different perspectives, which is really good. And, you know, we'll talk about this down the road because what may resonate for me, you know, with other people may not resonate with the way you do it or may resonate with the way people may resonate with you, but not with me. And so finding the right mix and finding that person that can really get you moving and understanding, and we're all heading in the same direction. That's what this is really all about.

James McLamb [00:02:20]:
Yes, sir. I agree with you 100%.

Tim Newman [00:02:24]:
You know, you told me a story in our first conversation about, you know, you injured your calf and you're limping all the way up to the stage. I've been there. I've been there. But the second you got on stage, the limp disappeared. And then when you walked off the stage and immediately started limping again. What happens to you when the microphone comes on?

James McLamb [00:02:45]:
I don't know if it's necessary when the mic comes on or is it as much when I see the audience that I get to pour into. Am I feeding off the energy of them? And I heard a very similar story from the great Zig Ziglar that he actually collapsed one time coming off the stage and was struggling to get on it. But when he was on it, he was full of life. So, I think it's the energy that we feed off of. It is the passion and the desire that we have to pour into others in such a powerful way that all those pains and discomforts and everything that's going on around us just kind of fall away and they disappear when you're really wanting to pour into someone in a powerful way.

Tim Newman [00:03:29]:
Yeah. And I agree with you and I get the same way, you know, when I'm When I get to be in front of kids or Gen Z or my students or whatever that audience is, I feel so uplifted. I feel the— I'm going to call it adrenaline, but the chills, the excitement.

James McLamb [00:03:50]:
Mm-hmm.

Tim Newman [00:03:51]:
And to me, there's nothing like it. I used to tell people all the time that for me, there was nothing like being on a college campus. I mean, being around young people. And I would say teaching them, but also learning from, from them as well. And I think sometimes, well, I think a lot of times people look at like what we do and we're the one teaching them, but also got to remember we're learning from them almost as much as we're teaching them.

James McLamb [00:04:21]:
I agree 100%. And I love to speak. I love to share. I used to think it used to be, I think when I first initially started, pouring into youth in this kind of way, you know, being in front of the crowds and leading them. I'll admit it was a lot about me, but at that point in time, I think it was more of a struggle to perform well. Perform is not even the right word, Tim. No, you're right. It's to do the best that I can.

James McLamb [00:04:50]:
But when it started being more, how can I serve them when I'm up there? I became more alive. I became more exhilarated. My nerves went away, my excitement rise. Of course, you know, ironically, your, your body doesn't know the difference between being excited or being nervous. It responds to those, those things the same way. But I, when I knew, when I was there to serve, it became so much easier to do what I wanted to do than it was when I came, when I was there to show off or perform or show them how talented I was on the stage.

Tim Newman [00:05:26]:
Was there a moment that you realized when you made that shift from performing to serving?

James McLamb [00:05:33]:
Very, very early on in speaking to a youth group. This was in the early days of social media as well. I think Twitter, you know, X now, Twitter had just come out. I was speaking to a group of students and I knew that I was doing well. I was in that zone. We've all been there who have been on speaking. Everything was flowing right. I felt good.

James McLamb [00:05:52]:
And I came off the stage and some of the students started telling me that I was trending on Twitter locally. I didn't even know what that meant. I was like, okay, that's great. What does it mean? I have no idea. And then they started telling me that people, that kids in the audience— Twitter was a new thing then, so they all were, you know, trying to get on it— that there were students in the audience, high school students in the audience that were retweeting things that I was saying, that they were putting quotes of what I was saying online.

Tim Newman [00:06:19]:
Wow.

James McLamb [00:06:20]:
They were sharing what was going on. They were sharing their reactions. Uh, some of them were even flipping because you didn't have rear-facing phones as many then. Some of them, they were flipping their phones around and videoing themselves, you know, with faces and stuff. And I began to— it began to change on the way home. Initially, when I was leaving there, I was thinking, wow, James did great. James did— I did this, I did— and then as I began to drive, I began to think about how did that impact them? What was I doing to that?

Tim Newman [00:06:47]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:06:48]:
How was I— and when I got home, I talked to my wife and, and I said, you know, I think I've been approaching this all wrong. I think I've been approaching it as how can I create and curate this speech, this presentation, this workshop in such a way that it provides great input instead of how can I find out what they need and meet them there and serve them better and worry less about my imperfections than it is about the service of them. And so, as we began to grow, I began to ask people. You know, what is your favorite speaker? And I went to a national conference for students and there was 40,000 students in attendance in this arena. And they had 2 major speakers. The opening— this was over like a 4-day conference. The opening speaker was Muhammad Ali's daughter. I don't even remember what her last name was.

James McLamb [00:07:42]:
And she spoke and everybody really liked it. But they couldn't tell me what it was about. But they did tell me that she told stories about herself. And then the last speaker on the last day was Bob Goff. And Bob Goff, when they came off, I said, what, what did you think about Bob Goff? And they said, when he spoke, and I felt like I was the only person in the room, that it was he and I having a conversation and no one else was around me. I didn't see anybody. I didn't feel anybody around me. It was me and Bob.

James McLamb [00:08:14]:
having a conversation where he was sharing with me the things that I needed to hear at the time. And so, I thought about that a lot because I saw both of them speak. And the more polished, the more curated, the more smooth speaker, you know, with, with no breaks in their speeches or mistakes or anything like that, definitely was Muhammad Ali's daughter. She was very, very professional, very good at what she did. And Bob was more of a conversation and there were breaks and You know, it was just, you know, like talking to him on the street. But it was also that he was there to meet them where they were at, not to share with him their— his expertise, but as much as it was to find out what they needed and serve them.

Tim Newman [00:08:59]:
Yeah, that's such a good point. And, you know, when, from my perspective, when I stopped trying to be polished and perfect, that's when things really started changing. And having, like you said, having, looking at it differently, having conversations and meeting them where they are. But that doesn't just go for younger generations. It goes for pretty much anybody you're going to have a conversation with, whether it's on stage, whether it's a networking event. It doesn't really matter. It's just good interpersonal communication skills that do that. But what would you say that adults really get wrong when we try and communicate with younger generations?

James McLamb [00:09:37]:
Well, thinking that we have to speak in their language and their vernacular and know this lingo and the slang that they have in order to be cool. Now, if you, if you were to hear me speak in front of a group of young people, you would think, well, James, you do that. But I'll do it from a perspective of showing them I'm a mid-50s guy trying to be this and playing off of this funniness of it to show the absurdity of it.

Tim Newman [00:10:01]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:10:01]:
Young people are not concerned whether or not you speak their language as much as it are, are you listening to them?

Tim Newman [00:10:07]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:10:09]:
So, if you're listening to them and someone is listening to us right now, they're saying, wait a minute. You're talking about speaking to them. How can I speak to them and listen to them? You can't. There's an element of being on the stage and speaking to someone that when you're doing it and you're really doing it to serve them, you are listening. To the vibe that you're getting from them. You're, you're seeing their facial reactions. You're watching how they're doing this. That's why when I've been in big arenas, in bigger stages and stuff, I'll ask for the house lights to be up.

James McLamb [00:10:40]:
When I first started, I wanted the house lights down because I wanted it to be on me. But now I want it up because I want to be able to see as many as I can see, to see is what I'm saying resonating? And, and if so, what resonated the best and how can I build upon what is going on?

Tim Newman [00:10:56]:
Yeah, that's so important from any number of different perspectives. Seeing their facial expressions, seeing their reactions when you're on stage, but also when you're— again, let's go back to interpersonal communication. You're just having a conversation with them and you're listening to what they're telling you. You're listening to their ideas and how how they see life and how they get from point A to point B, which is something that I think adults get wrong to begin with. I go back to what I said in one of the openings was I was learning as much on college campuses from them as maybe as they were learning from me.

James McLamb [00:11:44]:
I think every time that I've been in front of a group, Since my perspective has changed to that service mindset, I am seeking to learn more when I am up there. And in regards of me trying to learn more, I think it has increased the impact that I've been able to make because they see it's a genuine relationship I'm shooting for, not for just something transactional. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:12:09]:
Yeah. It's so, I actually had a call right before I got on here with you. And one of the points that the individual was making was he's more worried about relationships and adding value. This is the first time we had a conversation. He didn't really kind of know me. I said, well, we are 100% aligned on that. To me, everything doesn't matter. Everything is about relationships.

Tim Newman [00:12:35]:
I don't care what it is. It's about relationships. How can we add value to each other? And, you know, I think that's, to me, that's the starting point. That's the expectation. That's the floor. That's not the, that's not the ceiling. That's the floor.

James McLamb [00:12:56]:
Yeah, I agree with you in that. It's really, we want to make that connection. I want to pour into them more. And so, those are the opportunities I seek now more than before where it was like, I want to seek the stage to enhance myself.

Tim Newman [00:13:13]:
So, well, one of the things you write about is that young people are surrounded by adults giving them answers when what they often need are better questions. Why are we so quick to give advice instead of asking them questions?

James McLamb [00:13:26]:
Well, I think there's a number of reasons, but let's go with the first one that comes to mind when I say that. It's because we have been through that experience before and we feel that we can immediately help them. go through it because we have traversed that road that they're going down.

Tim Newman [00:13:42]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:13:42]:
We know where it leads. We know where the bumps are in the road. We may even know where the right turns are at instead of the wrong turns are at. We want to tell them immediately because we really have a heart that we want to help them, but it's not helping them. We're not helping them when we're pouring so much knowledge to them rather than trying to figure out help them realize it. And we can do that by asking them questions, asking them questions to guide them along the way. They don't want somebody pulling them along. They want somebody to walk alongside them in this journey.

James McLamb [00:14:17]:
And the only way to do that is through asking good questions.

Tim Newman [00:14:22]:
So, in your view, what are some of the downsides of us giving them all the answers? But besides, they don't have to think for themselves. But what were some of the other downsides, the negative aspects of us always being there to pick them up, always give them the answers, always give them the directions, very specific, do this, this, this, and this?

James McLamb [00:14:41]:
Well, let's give the visual analogy that people have described parenting styles over the years. We used to talk about helicopter parents, the parents that hover above everything. They're always with their kids. They're always watching what they're doing. They're always in. And then it moved from the helicopter parent to the lawnmower parent. Now, the lawnmower parent sees the obstacles in front of their kids and they want to reduce them some. They don't want the grass to be that high.

James McLamb [00:15:07]:
They know they've got to go through the grass, but they're going to cut it as much as they can to make the journey easier. We've gone past that completely. Now, we're at the snowplow parenting. And snowplow parents are the ones who are going to remove every single obstacle in their way. So, they're going to give them all the answers.

Tim Newman [00:15:24]:
Mm-hmm.

James McLamb [00:15:24]:
They're going to give them all the ideas. They're going to give them all the resources. they need, because they think by making their journey easier, it'll make them go farther in life, which is the complete opposite.

Tim Newman [00:15:35]:
Complete opposite.

James McLamb [00:15:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. What we want is we want what some have identified as the lighthouse parent. Now, a lighthouse does not help the ship sail any better. It does not reduce the storms that it's going through. It doesn't hide the rocks. It doesn't reduce the waves. It doesn't do any of that.

James McLamb [00:15:53]:
It provides them a place to fix their sight on so that they can safely navigate through it. And that's what we need to be doing. We need to, through questions, through our modeling of life, through the things that we're doing, provide a lighthouse for them so they can see this. This doesn't make a difference if you're a parent or a coach or a teacher. You're the lighthouse for them. That's something that you can see for them.

Tim Newman [00:16:16]:
That's such a great analogy. And I don't know if you saw this recently, and I'm not even sure that this is real. I'm sure it is real. But I just find it hard to believe. It was in the news that a parent wrote a letter to— their child was in the Navy and wrote a letter to the commander of the ship that said that they didn't sign up to be in the Navy to be on a ship in the middle of the ocean.

James McLamb [00:16:41]:
Oh my gosh. Well, hey, here's one that I heard. A college professor who runs a department here where I live in Raleigh, North Carolina at North Carolina State University told me that He had a parent call him 2 weeks into a new fall semester about their freshman son who had just started school and ask him— this was a couple years ago— ask him, was there anyone there that could call or stop by his dorm room to make sure that he got up and got to class on time? And he was like, he was like really polite and no. But when he got off the phone, he thought to himself, A kid doesn't need to be at school if he needs somebody to do that for him.

Tim Newman [00:17:25]:
Yeah, yeah. That's it. But it's, you know, being in higher ed most of my career, that's not— it's sad, but that's not abnormal. That's not an abnormal request.

James McLamb [00:17:36]:
I don't remember my parents ever doing anything for me.

Tim Newman [00:17:41]:
Yeah, me either. So, but see, we're that Gen X. We're the ones that had to do everything ourselves no matter what anyway, right? And I don't know about you, but for me it was, don't ask any questions. You, you, this, this is what you're supposed to do. You better, you better figure it out. You better, you better go do it.

James McLamb [00:18:00]:
Yeah. And that's exactly the way that I was raised as well, is that here's the task, go do it. You know, I'm going to give you some instructions. You got, you can ask me something now if you're going to ask it, but once it starts, you're on your own and I want to see it done. And when I went to college, My parents helped me pack my vehicle. They did not move me in.

Tim Newman [00:18:20]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:18:21]:
I moved myself in with my best friend. We moved in, and then I saw them. I think I came home the first weekend, uh, you know, just to say, hey, I'm alive and here's what's going on. Uh, but then beyond that, I was on my own. It was my responsibility to get my assignments. It was my responsibility to find my classes. It was my responsibility to find Where was I supposed to, you know, buy groceries if I needed them? All that was up to me. I was in charge of that.

James McLamb [00:18:48]:
There was none of that. Well, let me go around and show you the stuff. So when we moved our oldest daughter in, she wanted us to help us move in. And my wife wanted us to as well. She wanted us out there very quickly because she had been growing up around a dad who is, who had kind of pushed her out, right? Pushed her out of the nest quickly and said, I hope you can fly because you're on your own now.

Tim Newman [00:19:10]:
You're on your own. Yeah. Yeah, it's just completely different. And that also kind of leads to the whole idea of how stressed the younger generations are. And there's a stat out there, and I don't want to butcher it too bad, but it's that the average Gen Z person has as much mental health issues as a person who was In a mental institution in the 1950s.

James McLamb [00:19:40]:
I've heard something along those lines. I don't know exactly the way that it was phrased, but yeah, I've heard something very similar to that. Yes.

Tim Newman [00:19:50]:
Because we've taken away all of the challenges. And then when there's a small challenge, they don't know how to navigate it. They don't know. They don't have the capabilities. They don't have the tools to make decisions and And get around it. Even, I mean, just small things. Like, I remember I would have conversations with students about assignments in classes. I said, you know, you've got to decide for yourself.

Tim Newman [00:20:17]:
You're not going to be great at every subject. There's some things that you're going to want to really do well in, and you're going to have to put more effort in, and it's going to come at a consequence for less effort somewhere else. Are you okay with 100% effort is this in this class, but 100% effort is this for another class. And you've got to be able to make those decisions. And that's just like anything else in life.

James McLamb [00:20:42]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:20:43]:
And they couldn't understand it.

James McLamb [00:20:45]:
Well, it's because they never had to make that decision before. If mom and dad saw them in high school struggling in something, they didn't let them push through it. They didn't let them kind of work through it on their own. We were just talking about that. in a parenting class that I, that I work with at the church that I attend this past Sunday, how that a lot of parents are wanting to do the things for their child instead of realizing their role as a parent. Maybe they're doing too much.

Tim Newman [00:21:12]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:21:13]:
Maybe it's time to kind of step back and let them struggle on their own. As hard as that is, as difficult as that may be to watch a child struggle, um, I had a friend who, who had a hypothesis. I don't— I think there may be a little bit of validity to this. I'm not 100% buying into it. He says, as we as society and culture have gotten more fluid overall, and things have gotten easier for us overall, parents therefore have more time to spend. And so since they have more available time, they're spending it on making the child's life A little bit easier. He says, where versus previous generations, they were struggling to make ends meet, maybe they were working longer hours, then they had to work at home, or they might have worked on a farm or some aspect of that. There was much of this thing of, I need you to help, so get out there and help, or I need you to do this on your own because I've got all this stuff over here to deal with.

Tim Newman [00:22:10]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:22:10]:
I think there might be some validity to some of that. I don't— I'm not 100% ready to jump into that. Completely, but I do like where he's thinking that.

Tim Newman [00:22:19]:
Yeah, I agree. There's something to it. There's definitely something to it. And technology has made things easier for everybody. And I don't want to get too far down the road with technology right now, but to me, that's just a big thing that we have. Again, we are where we are with it. We're not going to go backwards. We just have to find a way to do better with what we've got.

James McLamb [00:22:49]:
Well, let's make choices on it now because so much of it, it can be done for you.

Tim Newman [00:22:54]:
Yes.

James McLamb [00:22:54]:
I mean, Tim, I'm writing an article right now for a magazine and it's taking me— and it's only about 1,500 words, but it's taking me a lot longer than I think it should. And there's this temptation just to take what I have and dump it into some AI program that says, Fix this for me so I can move on to something else. But I'm working hard not to do that. One, because in today's society, that will come up and bite you later. And 2, I want it to be me. I want it to be who I am on this. But tech is making things easier for us.

Tim Newman [00:23:29]:
Yeah. Let's get back to questions here for a second. What separates a great question that opens up a young person from one that Feels like they're being interrogated.

James McLamb [00:23:39]:
Well, I don't know if you know a man named Bob Teedy. He's known as the Question Man. He used to be in charge, one of the, in the leadership of Cru. Cru was called Campus Crusade for Christ back in its day. Bob is the Question Man, has written a lot of books, and he says the most effective question you can ask is, tell me more. It's really not a question, it's just a follow-up. Tell me more. Tell me more about that.

James McLamb [00:24:01]:
Tell me more about what you mean. Tell me more about what's going on there. So when you're first asking a question, you know, for most teenagers, you're going to get a very short answer. And so it may just be, tell me more. Tell me more about that. But also, I also say this, Tim, you need to be prepared for them to answer the questions that you have at the time that you— at a time in which you did not ask it. And what I mean—

Tim Newman [00:24:27]:
Ooh.

James McLamb [00:24:27]:
What I'm saying by that is that you're asking a question before dinner. And they are not ready to answer that. There is just, they are just not ready to process that later. But maybe 10:47 at night when you are ready to crash and you want to just, you know, get something, get a drink of water from the kitchen and go to bed. And you are in there getting something at 10:47 out of the refrigerator, you know, a glass of water or something. And they walk in. They may be ready to talk. And so as a parent, you need to be ready to answer the question.

James McLamb [00:25:02]:
Let them answer the questions when they are ready to answer it.

Tim Newman [00:25:05]:
That's such a good point that, you know, I didn't, I didn't think about and I get it. But in this conversation, I didn't think about it because we, you know, we, we are, we're still part of, okay, I've asked you a question. I want an answer now so that I, so that I can move on to the next thing that I want to do. That's, that's such a good point.

James McLamb [00:25:32]:
And, and, uh, our son came in one time, it was about 10:30 at night, and he was ready to talk about stuff. And when we got through, it was almost midnight by the time he got finished talking. And when he left, I looked at my wife, I said, does he not know that I've been up since 7 AM this morning and we've been together all day? He could ask this anytime during the day when I was much more alert. And she was like, I know, I feel the same way. And I kept thinking about that the next day. I was like, this is not on my schedule. Um, I signed up for this when I chose to be a father.

Tim Newman [00:26:04]:
Yes, you did.

James McLamb [00:26:05]:
So I need to accept the responsibility of the fact that there's times where they're, they're ready to talk and we need to be available for them.

Tim Newman [00:26:13]:
My mother was, uh, it just wasn't in the instruction manual.

James McLamb [00:26:18]:
No, no, it was not.

Tim Newman [00:26:23]:
No.

James McLamb [00:26:23]:
Oh boy.

Tim Newman [00:26:25]:
And that really kind of leads into the whole idea of when we're giving advice, when we're listening, and when's the point that we stop asking questions and they're ready for us to actually give them advice? You know, there's, to me, there's no hard and fast rule. It really kind of depends on the individual and what you're talking about. What would you say to that?

James McLamb [00:26:52]:
I don't know that there is a hard, fast rule, as you've said, on that. And sometimes, it may not be that you never are giving them advice or giving them the input they need as much as it is, is you're guiding the questions that you're asking to help them realize what you want them them to do.

Tim Newman [00:27:11]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:27:11]:
And I'll give you a great, great for instance. Um, very close friend of mine, uh, we were roommates in college, worked together during the summer. Uh, this was, this was decades ago. He was seriously involved with this young lady, well, this woman. We were in our 20s at this point in time, so much so that he was starting to get ready to ask her to marry him. I'd been married for a while, and, and so the rest of the, our friend group were like, I don't know about this girl. This woman ain't exactly the right thing. And I was like, I feel like it's my responsibility to say something.

James McLamb [00:27:44]:
But I didn't want to say something because I didn't want to lose that friendship.

Tim Newman [00:27:47]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:27:48]:
So when we were out hanging out doing something one time, I don't even remember where we were at. I just started asking him questions about this. Do you think this, or how does that work? Or what do you mean by that? Or how is this going to play out in the long run? Trying to guide him to see some of the issues that we were seeing. It was a long time later he came back to me and he said, you know, I did not know what you were doing there. But after we got through that, I began to think about the questions you were asking and how reflective it was. He says, and I want to tell you, I appreciate that. He said, because if you had come after me and had just said, hey, we do not think she is right and these are the reasons why and cannot you see this stuff? He says, it might have hurt our friendship. He said, but now I feel closer to you as a friend because you allowed me to make some realizations.

James McLamb [00:28:40]:
You allowed me to reflect upon this without making me defensive, without putting me in a position where everything was hostile. And so I've tried my best as a parent to remember that. Now I remember, I will be the first to say, That doesn't happen all the time or has not happened all the time. I mean, sometimes you're tired. Sometimes you just want it over with quick. And the easy way is to say, because I said so.

Tim Newman [00:29:07]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:29:08]:
But in those times that I could, in those times that I had the, the forethought and the, and the, and the wisdom, which escapes James quite a bit, I wanted to just ask questions to help them realize it, um, to help to guide them through it.

Tim Newman [00:29:24]:
Yeah. And it's so— and I'm glad you brought that up from a different perspective too, because it's when you're emotionally involved as a parent, sometimes it's very difficult to separate that emotional involvement than with a student or even a friend. You still have that emotional involvement, but it's not nearly as close as as parent to child. And we forget about some of those things. And I had a conversation with my— had my oldest grandkids for 3 weeks. My oldest daughter was down here for one of those weeks.

James McLamb [00:30:06]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:30:06]:
Oh gosh, it was so much fun except for the last week when I ended up in the hospital. But that's a different story. I was talking to my daughter and I said, These are some of the mistakes that I made with you. These are some of the mistakes that I made with your sister. And I see that now after the fact. But I was so emotionally involved and I was so, you know, in the— I'm going to use the term in the fight at the time that I couldn't extract myself to see the bigger picture. And I apologize for that. And this is what I would have done differently.

Tim Newman [00:30:46]:
And I hope that you see that if you're in that position, that you can do things differently and you can separate yourself and make different decisions. You don't have to make those emotional decisions.

James McLamb [00:31:01]:
I'm with you on this. I interviewed a man one time. He wrote a book. I can't remember what it was exactly called, something about the ride home. And it was in essence after coming home from a golf match where his son didn't perform well on the second day as he had, how, how angry he was and how he was emotional and how he was taking it out on his son. And I saw myself in that because I was a coach as well, and I coached my son through a lot of things. And what that— yeah, and what Mark told me, the man's name was Mark, Mark told me was he said that it's never too late. for you to go back and say, I made those mistakes early on.

James McLamb [00:31:41]:
I didn't know that. And be as transparent as you were. And so I've done that myself with my son and saying, look, I didn't know. I didn't know. And I didn't have anybody to practice on beforehand. You were the first son that I had. You were the first, you know, you had an older sister, but there was a different route that she took.

Tim Newman [00:32:01]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:32:01]:
There was different things that she took. The relationship that you and I had, you're the only son I have. I only got one shot at doing this. And so, I'm going to mess it up a lot, but I'm asking for your grace and understand that everything I did, I tried to do out of a spirit of love, even though I know I never measured up.

Tim Newman [00:32:20]:
Right. That builds so much credibility even with your own child. We're not even talking about a team that you're leading or a classroom or a group of students or whatever, that builds so much more credibility and trust when you can own your mistakes.

James McLamb [00:32:40]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:32:41]:
And you can point to very specifically, this is what I said, or this is what I did that I should not have done, and I would do it differently. And this is how I would do it differently. That builds so much credibility.

James McLamb [00:32:52]:
I had an experience as a teacher. I was about 4 years in maybe. And it was a rough morning. I had a student in the class before that, that found every single button to push to get me mad. And it carried over to the next class. And that class wasn't doing anything, but there was one girl in the class who was completely checked out. And for that moment, I decided, you know, I never— it was not like— folks don't think I made a conscious decision. to do this.

James McLamb [00:33:25]:
But somewhere in my mind, I thought, this is the— I'm gonna unleash all this frustration. I couldn't do it at this boy from second period, so I'm gonna give it to this girl in the third period who did not deserve it. And so—

Tim Newman [00:33:36]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:33:37]:
I, I did something wrong, and I got called to the carpet on it later because it got back on me. And I, I went to her and her mother on my own accord without someone doing it once it was pointed out what I had done. and said, look, I'm sorry. I, I let this build over. There was no reason for that. There's no excuse for that. I have no reason for that. I don't know.

James McLamb [00:34:03]:
I didn't know how to handle stuff. I just didn't know how to, how to stop and not do the next thing. And that was a tough thing for me to do.

Tim Newman [00:34:12]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:34:13]:
But I have thought about that, that, that has bothered me. since this day about how did you let this bleed over? How did you let one person push buttons and then it affect the other? Zig Ziglar called it kicking the cat. You know that, you know, he tells the story of a, of a guy who got mad because his boss did something at work. And then he went home and he told— he got his wife got mad at him for doing something, you know, because he was Relating it to his wife and his wife went to the kid and, and, you know, their, their son and, and did the same thing to the son. And then the cat happened to walk in front of the son. And so, the son kicked the cat because it was in the way of it. And, and Zig Ziglar's point and said, wouldn't it have been a whole lot simpler for the boss just to come over to the house and kick the cat and everybody out in the middle of it, you know, not suffer? I just butchered that story. But it did make me say, in essence, what it was saying is it needed to stop.

James McLamb [00:35:09]:
Somewhere. I'm gonna look that story up now when we get offline so I can tell it differently.

Tim Newman [00:35:15]:
So, when we talk about credibility, I mean, it's one of the toughest things for a young person to build credibility when they're 20 or 22. We've got years of experience that we can point to, and we can point to specific examples of where we have messed up and how we've built credibility and how we've overcome certain things. How do we communicate credibility when you don't have time to build that on your resume yet?

James McLamb [00:35:41]:
Ooh. Now, I'm thinking back to my first few years of teaching. What I tried to do was the wrong way. And that was read off my accolades and the things I had done to try to impress the young people that I was teaching. That didn't do anything for them. That did nothing for them at all. It was only after they realized where my heart was or where my mindset was or why I was there that they started trusting me and I began to gain credibility in their eyes when they see why you're there. Not, not why what you're doing is, is based on, oh, look, I've got this award.

James McLamb [00:36:16]:
I served in this capacity. I did this. I made an A in this class. Look how smart it is. Don't you guys feel lucky to have me as your teacher? It's more of, here I am. This is where I want to go. This is where I want to pour out for you. I want to help you succeed.

James McLamb [00:36:31]:
When they believe in you, Then, you're establishing credibility more than look at my resume.

Tim Newman [00:36:42]:
But how do we help the 20 or 22-year-old build that credibility?

James McLamb [00:36:47]:
Well, they too need to start from that place of service.

Tim Newman [00:36:49]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:36:49]:
They need to start from that place of I'm here to serve you. That will build credibility with everybody around them because then, they'll know that's somebody they can trust and rely on.

Tim Newman [00:37:00]:
You know, I— so I'm going to tell a story here my audience has heard. When my youngest daughter, she can sell. I mean, she is a born— she sold her— one of her first things, she was in the wedding industry and she was selling wedding dresses where the taxes on the wedding dress were $1,000.

James McLamb [00:37:23]:
Oh. Oh, exactly.

Tim Newman [00:37:26]:
Oh, now she sells— now she's selling outdoor furniture. And she showed me a table that was an out— James, this is an outdoor table, cost $20,000. And she said— I said, number one, who are these people? And number two, we're doing it wrong. And number three, why would you want a $20,000 outdoor table? And that's what I asked her. And she said, but Dad, it's teak. And I said, Okay, that still didn't answer my question. But anyway, she was in a position, she was in a, not a good, not a good work situation. And we, I've been trying to coach her through it.

Tim Newman [00:38:06]:
And she called me one day while she was on vacation and she said, Dad, I'm on vacation, but I quit my job by email while I'm on vacation.

James McLamb [00:38:16]:
Wow.

Tim Newman [00:38:17]:
And, and James, let me tell you what, if I could have reached through the phone and snatched her up, I would have. And she said, Dad, I'm going to be fine. I said, but you're, you're, you're, you're killing your credibility. You're killing and ruining everything that you've built by doing that. She said, Dad, I'm going to be fine. And turns out she was right. that she was fine. But even still, we would not have done that.

Tim Newman [00:38:47]:
Our generation, that would, that would not be— that's not even something we would have even pretended to think about.

James McLamb [00:38:54]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:38:55]:
And this is what some of the younger generations are doing, and they're not looking at it from a bigger picture. They're— even if you're in a bad situation, there's better ways to handle that situation than to quit your job, By email while you're on vacation.

James McLamb [00:39:13]:
I've heard of them ending relationships, uh, by text. Um, you know, one of the things I tried to encourage with my children, specifically my son, was never ask a girl out by text. Yeah, um, if you're gonna do that, call her and see if— he says, well, that's not the way we do it anymore. I'm like, yes, it is the way you do it anymore. I said, you've just chosen Yeah, the easy way out. He said, well, y'all didn't have the ability to have text back then. I said, no, we had folded up little notes that you would be passed across the thing. It says, would you like to go out with me?

Tim Newman [00:39:48]:
Check yes or no.

James McLamb [00:39:50]:
Or would you like to sit with me at lunch? Check yes or no. You know, when you're like in the middle school or something like that, that would be our way of doing it. I says, and it didn't work then. It didn't work. It's not going to work now in the new technology way.

Tim Newman [00:40:06]:
Well, that goes into the whole issue about how we communicate. And we both admit that we miss being in a room with people on a regular basis, right? But what communication skills are young people losing when so much happens through a screen? So much of the social interaction happens through a screen. What are they actually missing?

James McLamb [00:40:30]:
Well, I think it's the same thing that, that you and I are missing, probably the way that we're doing this now. It's the ability to see and feed off of each other in that live setting, to, to get the, the, the feel of, of, uh, the vibe that we're showing. I hate to say the word aura because that makes it sound kind of new age-ish or something, but there's something about being with someone, to be able to see face to face, see eye to eye, that you're able to communicate effectively with them.

Tim Newman [00:40:56]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:40:56]:
And the more distance that we put between them, then the easier it becomes for us to do those things like quitting by email or, or ending a relationship by text. Um, you don't even really now have to hear someone's voice or hear the pain and the agony in someone's voice if you're talking to them or, or listening to them. So, I think by not being in person, you know, we were made for relationships.

Tim Newman [00:41:21]:
Mm-hmm.

James McLamb [00:41:21]:
We're made to connect. If technology's a new way of connecting where you can connect with anyone in the world, then why is this generation reporting to being the loneliest generation that we've ever had? Yes, they have the ability to connect with more people than anybody else.

Tim Newman [00:41:38]:
Yeah, that's such a good point. They are the loneliest. And for whatever reason, they put so much emphasis or weight to what somebody who they've never met says about them. If they, if they've liked a picture or not liked a picture or whatever, whatever that may be, and how much value they put in their own self-worth about what other people they've never even met are saying about them on social media. That's a, that's a real problem.

James McLamb [00:42:15]:
And we've always had this kind of an issue in some smaller ways, but it's so amplified now.

Tim Newman [00:42:22]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:42:23]:
It's so amplified to hear, you know, that, oh, I have 10,000 connections, but do you have any friends?

Tim Newman [00:42:30]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:42:31]:
Do you have anyone that you know? I mean, Facebook calling people that you connect with online your friend list devalues what the word friend really means. So, I think that, I don't think intentionally someone has looked at it and said, oh, friend means less than it is. But because we call so many things friends, I do think it has subtly devalued the friendships that people have and that they don't know how to connect as well and don't know how to be there as well.

Tim Newman [00:43:02]:
Well, yeah, and that goes back to the whole idea of processing emotions. The whole idea of, you know, when you're, when you're using screens or devices or social media, what have you, there really isn't any— there's no real true consequence. So like when we were growing up, right, if you said something to somebody and they didn't like it, there'd be a fight. I mean, we're just going to punch you right in the mouth. And guess what? It'd be over with, right? It'd be over with and done with. And you move on next and you just move on. There's a consequence to it. There really isn't any real consequence.

Tim Newman [00:43:46]:
There's no immediate consequence to these things. So they don't have to really think about the emotions of it. They don't really have to think about, well, what's going to happen if I do say that? Because it's not real.

James McLamb [00:43:58]:
I think too, yeah. And related to that as well is because there's so much of their connection and conflict resolution that happens through technology that when it does happen face-to-face, they don't have the emotional intelligence to be able to resolve it in an effective way. So, sometimes it does erupt. It does erupt in a way that it doesn't need to happen. You know, we grew up, you know, if you got in a fight with somebody or you got in an argument with somebody and you wanted to de-escalate, you learned the skills face-to-face how to de-escalate that. I remember football practice in middle school.

Tim Newman [00:44:32]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:44:33]:
You know, I don't remember the kid's name, but, you know, he said something and I popped up and ran up and we were like nose to nose, ready to go at it. And I realized real quickly, if this gets any farther, I'm gonna be kicked off the team. And I had to manage how to get down because I realized— his name was Curtis. I realized Curtis didn't care whether he got kicked off the team and may have been prodding me. So I learned that resolution, you know, conflict resolution.

Tim Newman [00:44:57]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:44:57]:
Really quickly, how to de-escalate this. And also keep face with the guys behind me, you know, to make me look like I wasn't a wimp or something. But they don't have that ability a lot of times because they don't have those kinds. I even asked my son one time, he's 23, when he was, you know, had graduated high school, I said, have you ever been in like a fight with somebody pushing, you know, something going on? He said, well, no. I said, anything kind of get close to that, the teachers are all over it. They're, they're ending it and you're, you don't want to, you know, anything at all could cause you to be suspended. He says, how about you? I was like, you know, we had playground fights, you know, nothing serious. Um, you know, I remember on the baseball field sliding into somebody hard to kind of, you know, it was because I wanted to get at him.

James McLamb [00:45:44]:
I says, you know, we had those kind of things and, and there were some rougher times going. I said, but you kind of learn how to, how to handle this and react to this.

Tim Newman [00:45:51]:
Yeah.

James McLamb [00:45:51]:
And I asked him that really too, because I was just wondering, how is he going to handle when he gets into a job and there's someone there who he disagrees with and they have that problem? How is he— does he have those skills? Because some of those skills you can't really teach Tim. It has to be—

Tim Newman [00:46:07]:
No, you have to learn.

James McLamb [00:46:08]:
Experienced.

Tim Newman [00:46:09]:
Yes, it has to be experience. And it's funny you say that because I live in an HOA, which I would never advise anybody ever. And part of our problem with our HOA is the board members won't call each other out when they know that they're doing wrong stuff.

James McLamb [00:46:31]:
Mm-hmm.

Tim Newman [00:46:33]:
And then if, if you as an owner say, well, what's going on here, then you're the problem. I said, well, but, you know, hold on, you know that this person is doing this and they shouldn't be doing it as a board member. And you just say, you don't say anything. Now you've become part of the problem. And it's really no different. You get into a job and you know that somebody's not meeting expectations. You know that they're cutting corners here, cutting corners there, and it's going to affect you and it affects the business and you don't address it. And there's a right way and a wrong way to address it.

Tim Newman [00:47:09]:
Then you've become part of the problem. And that you said, like you said, that's something that you have to learn. You've got to actually go through that to learn how to do it.

James McLamb [00:47:19]:
Yeah, it's— some things just are best to be experienced. I have no problem with curriculums that kind of teach techniques to help with conflict resolution. But I often think we're just trying to get them to avoid it when that's not realistic.

Tim Newman [00:47:36]:
Right.

James McLamb [00:47:37]:
Uh, things are gonna happen sometimes when they're younger. It might be best to let them experience the difficulties of it so that they can have that kind of, uh, context to draw from later, uh, to realize, okay, that didn't work then. I need to try something new.

Tim Newman [00:47:55]:
Exactly. Exactly. Uh, what would you say to a, if to a 22-year-old who may be listening right now whose older people in their life aren't listening or don't understand them. What can that individual do to start communicating differently to get the adults in their life to listen and understand?

James McLamb [00:48:18]:
Wow. For a young person that has that adult in their life, whether it's a parent or a boss or a coach in some manners that are not listening, One way to get them to listen is, is, is to follow the instructions that you're giving. Comply as much as you can in the context of what's going on. And what I mean by that is, is that, yeah, we've heard this thing, the squeaky wheel gets the most oil. What if you are being the person that's challenging them? You're not going to get them to listen to you as much as you're going to get— cause them to want to correct you more.

Tim Newman [00:48:54]:
Mm-hmm.

James McLamb [00:48:55]:
But the person that I always had on my teams when I coached and in the classroom that I started listening to was the ones that I thought valued what I was saying. Whether or not I was right or wrong, if Amy thought I was, you know, had value and she was listening to me and she was following some of the leadership that I was giving, even if I wasn't doing it very well, then I, when it came to a point in time where she was suggesting things to me, I was more receptive to that. So there's going to have to be some patience that they're going to have to learn. So first, they're going to need to be patient. 2, they're going to have to understand I need to still respect and follow this person.

Tim Newman [00:49:34]:
Mm-hmm.

James McLamb [00:49:35]:
And 3, then when they are offering things and they want to have those conversations, do you know a way this doesn't cause this person to be offensive? Now, young person, if you're listening and you go through kind of that step process and it still is not working, then you need to evaluate. Is this a situation I need to be in? Does someone else need to be brought into this to guide me? Because it might be a severity level that you're not able to handle in that way. But if you're at a job and you're like, I think there's a better way of doing this, but my boss won't listen to me, following along, showing them the respect are going to earn you the right to be heard more than challenging them.

Tim Newman [00:50:15]:
Yeah, that's such good advice. My kids were in school and obviously they're older now and both my wife and I were in education. I just told them, I said, if you've got a problem with a teacher, you deal with it. Okay? And if you got a question, there's a right way and wrong way to handle it. And if you've done the best you can and you're not getting— you feel like you're not being treated fairly, not that you don't get the answer that you want, and there's a difference there, right? Not getting the answer that you want and being treated fairly are 2 different things.

James McLamb [00:50:48]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:50:49]:
Then let me know and then I'll step in. And my wife said, they can't do that. I said, well, they've got to learn at some point. Are we going to teach them now when they're in 2nd or 3rd grade, or are we going to wait till they get older? The best thing to do is teach them how to deal with different personalities, different age groups. Now it's only going to benefit them. As they get older. And that's no different than what you just said. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

Tim Newman [00:51:17]:
And you have those conversations. You ask good questions, but you're following the directions. You're still treating them with the respect that they deserve, and you're not being obnoxious about it. And more likely than not, if you're doing that, again, you may not get the answer that you want. But you're going to build credibility and you're going to build a connection with whoever that person is, and you're going to be treated fairly.

James McLamb [00:51:48]:
There's a keyword in there where you're talking about asking questions that you said, and that was good. Asking good questions. Because even as a young person too, then they can ask good questions to those in leadership to kind of open up that leadership's mind to be more receptive to their thing. Versus just asking questions to be arrogant or to be offensive, to create conflict. Like, are you stupid? That's a bad question. You don't want to ask that one. Take that one off your list. Don't ask that one.

Tim Newman [00:52:20]:
Because if you ask me that, yes, I am. I am stupid. Don't worry about it. We'll just move on. Let's talk about Generation Youth. You're doing such good work with that. Tell us what you're doing with Generation Youth and who you're helping with that.

James McLamb [00:52:34]:
Our primary function at Generation Youth is to equip those who have a desire, who have a passion, or even, I would say, a calling to see the next generation thrive. So, they want to work with teens. They want to work with youth, middle schoolers, high schoolers, college students. They want to help them reach their full potential to thrive in life. And we do that by way of certifying them as youth life coaches. Now, we know there are coaches all over the world now. You have got business coaches. You have got relationship coaches.

James McLamb [00:53:05]:
There is any kind of coach you can name out there, life coaches in general. But youth need that kind of guidance. Someone that does not tell them the way, but provides a lighthouse for them to see the way. That asks them the right questions to help them realize what is going on. That takes, that helps them go from where they are now to where they want to be. And helps them find their own path in there. So if you have a desire to be a coach, come and reach out to us. We're gonna, we're redoing our entire program.

James McLamb [00:53:33]:
We're in the middle of redoing it, and I'm about 3 and a half months behind where I said I was gonna be, uh, which is, uh, 100% James's fault.

Tim Newman [00:53:41]:
Mm-hmm.

James McLamb [00:53:41]:
It's 100% my fault. We were gonna launch the new program in October. That will not happen. So that may happen, uh, January 27th. I just told the team this morning, I said it's 100% my fault. But we're redoing the program to make it even more in-depth, to teach folks how they can do this, how they can be coaches for young folks. And for those who even want to go a level deeper and want to make it a business, want to make it a side hustle in their life, to teach them how to make that work as well. So if you're interested in youth life coaching, just, just want to know what it's all about, let us know.

James McLamb [00:54:16]:
We'd love to talk with you.

Tim Newman [00:54:17]:
So, where can people connect with you, learn more about this in Generation Youth, find your books, and actually the Generation Youth podcast?

James McLamb [00:54:25]:
Well, the best place for us to go to is at our website, which is generation-youth.com. generation-youth.com. I wish it could have been just generationyouth.com, but somebody has that and doesn't use it. So, we have the dash in there between Generation and Youth. On there, they'll find forms that they can fill out to reach out to us. Email addresses. They can email us directly, links to all our social media channels, uh, links to the books, podcasts, blogging, Substack writing. Every— the whole world is on those, on that pages.

James McLamb [00:54:55]:
That's where we live at. That's where everything gets updated. So if they go there, that is our hub. That is where we would— where everything comes from. Um, if they are on the social media world, we are on Instagram at Generation Youth And on LinkedIn, they can just find me, James McLamb. They'll find my name there.

Tim Newman [00:55:17]:
Well, I'll put those links in the show notes. But James, first, I got to thank you for spending some time with us. You're such a wealth of information. You're doing such good work with not just youth but the people leading the youth, the parents, teachers, the counselors, the coaches, and sort of thing. But thank you so much for that. Keep Keep up the good work, and we'll talk to you soon.

James McLamb [00:55:38]:
Thank you so much, Tim.

Tim Newman [00:55:41]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free ebook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Formula for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We'll talk to you next time. Take care.