Tim Newman [00:00:09]:
You can know exactly how to communicate and still completely fall apart when you're triggered. One comment from your boss, partner, or family member, and suddenly you're defensive, you're shutting down, overthinking, or saying something you'll regret. So maybe the problem isn't communication. Maybe it's what happens to us when the pressure hits us. Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results— communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is Nima Rahmany. Nima helps high-performing individuals, couples, and families heal relational wounds, regulate their nervous systems, and become trigger-proof in love, leadership, and connection.

Tim Newman [00:01:07]:
Formerly a chiropractor, Nima now guides clients through somatic and shadow integration to interrupt unconscious relational patterns and create emotionally safe, co-regulated relationships. His work blends neuroscience, polyvagal theory, attachment theory, and transformational coaching to help people build more secure, authentic connections. Nima, welcome to Speaking with Confidence.

Nima Rahmany [00:01:31]:
Good to be here, Tim. I can't wait to dive in.

Tim Newman [00:01:34]:
Well, this is going to be great. When we had our initial conversation, I was fascinated by a lot of things that you said. And as I've been thinking about it, a good portion of my adult professional life teaching people how to communicate better. But you told me something that made me rethink that a little bit. You said a lot of what we call communication problems aren't actually communication problems. They're symptoms.

Nima Rahmany [00:02:01]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:02:02]:
So what are we really dealing with?

Nima Rahmany [00:02:04]:
Yeah. Communication problems. You think about communication problems when they occur, it's during moments of conflict, what we call in the somatic world relational rupture. a rupture is often registered as a threat to our safety. You know, when you think about back in childhood to not have an attachment to our caregivers, it meant death. So relational ruptures are registered in our nervous systems as threatening. So it's very difficult to communicate effectively when our nervous systems are perceiving a threat. In fact, through 3 quarters of our brain literally shuts off and we are now run by the amygdala.

Nima Rahmany [00:02:49]:
So when you try to tell, you know, most times, oh, they have a communication issue. No, they're activated in that moment of activation. Their body and their mind is perceiving a threat and their communication becomes defensive is because when you're feeling threatened, you attack back. So communication feels like an attack. It's an attack or there's literally shutdown that happens. So these are all adaptive forms of protective mechanisms that our nervous systems do. And in that, in that moment, 3 quarters of our brain isn't working. So communication is not actually possible.

Nima Rahmany [00:03:26]:
So whatever you learn about communication doesn't actually register in specific moments that are— that matter.

Tim Newman [00:03:33]:
So when we're struggling with these types of conversations, whether it's conflict, speaking up, setting boundaries is a big one as well. Telling people what they actually need. How do they know whether they need better communication skills or whether there's something deeper that's actually going on?

Nima Rahmany [00:03:50]:
Great question. It depends on what's happening in your body in that moment, Tim. So in that moment where, let's say, so we're using a hypothetical. Let's go specific. You are in a workplace situation. Something happens that crosses a boundary. And now all of a sudden your body goes into this constriction. and you want to speak up and say, hey, I, if you keep talking to me that way, I can't participate.

Nima Rahmany [00:04:18]:
That's a boundary. In that moment, if you have fear of speaking up and saying that because of the repercussions, well, then you're dealing with something historical. You're dealing with something in your nervous system, which as a child, maybe speaking up and speaking your truth and saying no resulted in punishment or a withdrawal of love. Then your body is going to, is going to respond by going into a constriction. So to really understand the distinction between them, you have to start to develop a very attuned relationship with what your body is doing in those moments and have skills and tools to be able to soothe the child inside of you that felt it wasn't safe to speak up or set a boundary or say no. You have to repair with that part of you first before you can communicate like an adult.

Tim Newman [00:05:17]:
Yeah, that's interesting. As I'm thinking back to, I do a lot of intergenerational communication work. And if you look at, let's just take our generation and Gen X, you better not ask any questions. You better just do what you're told to do.

Nima Rahmany [00:05:35]:
Correct.

Tim Newman [00:05:36]:
When you're told to do it, how you're told to do it, and not have any questions. So

Nima Rahmany [00:05:42]:
Yep.

Tim Newman [00:05:43]:
A lot of that makes a lot of sense.

Nima Rahmany [00:05:45]:
So in those moments, you tell the person set boundaries. Sure. But that person that you just described has a blueprint that setting a boundary and saying no or questioning something results in being shamed or punished. It's a lot easier. Oh, just teach them in a seminar. Hey, set boundaries when this happens. But in those moments that matter, you're not dealing with an adult. You're dealing with an 8-year-old who's afraid to be punished.

Nima Rahmany [00:06:12]:
So they keep silent. So it's a lot more complicated than just set boundaries, speak your truth, be authentic. Those platitudes don't actually work. We have to go much deeper and rewire the conditioning that had us feeling a lack of safety for speaking up. And so that takes practice and it can only happen through a relational reenactment. Like, let's say that's, that's you, Tim. Right. that you were describing, you know, you don't speak up.

Nima Rahmany [00:06:42]:
The only way that this can shift is if you start a relationship, let's say with somebody like me, I start guiding you and through our relationship, something comes up that's troublesome for you. The old version of Tim would have been silent and not spoken up, but this new practice is you're going to say, hey, Nima, you know, that last appointment that we had, you said something that really bothered me. Can I share what came up for me with you? And then I can be like, sure. And then I'll listen. And as I listen and you share it, and then I give you what's called a corrective experience. I share with you, oh, wow, Tim, thanks for telling me that. That's valuable feedback. And make sure you let me know moving forward whenever something crosses your boundary.

Nima Rahmany [00:07:30]:
Now, Tim, your nervous system gets the experience. Oh my gosh. We reenacted that whole dynamic that I wasn't allowed to speak. This time I produced what's called a corrective experience. I spoke up and I didn't die. Now my nervous system has now learned that it's safe to speak up. So it's only through relational rupture and repair that these conditionings get rewired. You can't just learn it in a classroom.

Tim Newman [00:07:58]:
So, so let's take it from the other end of the spectrum. Mm-hmm. You fly off the handle and you do—

Nima Rahmany [00:08:06]:
Yes.

Tim Newman [00:08:07]:
You don't shut down. You have the exact opposite response.

Nima Rahmany [00:08:12]:
You fight back.

Tim Newman [00:08:13]:
Is it the same? Do we correct it by doing the same type of work? Because to me, and I don't want to say one's worse, but I think one has You know, the flying off the handle has, I think, more long-term implications.

Nima Rahmany [00:08:33]:
Yeah,

Tim Newman [00:08:33]:
right.

Nima Rahmany [00:08:34]:
Yeah, it passes the wound off. So how do we resolve that? Well, we're gonna find out, like, in that moment that you flew off the handle. This is how I resolved it. And this is actually how I got to this is I flew off the handle in my last relationship and things got physically violent and I had to go through this entire process of really understanding what happens to us When we dissociate from kind of like our bodies and we go into dissociative rage and we fly off the handle, what happens? It's in that moment, Tim, whatever is said to us in that moment that causes you to fly off the handle. If you go back in time and think of a time that you flew off the handle, it was something was done or said that produced what you perceive to be a threat. To your ego, a threat that evoked shame. In my case, the thing that flew off the handle was toxic shame. Some— something that was triggered was some sort of a shame that came up in my body, and that shame was so painful that we react with the fight response to try to protect ourselves.

Nima Rahmany [00:09:49]:
Anger becomes the protector for those really vulnerable parts of us that don't feel like we're good enough. So how do we resolve that? Well, we got to go underneath the protective anger and understand. So this is for anybody who wants to learn how to stop flying off the handle, how to find that vulnerable part of us that the anger is there to protect and learn how to understand it, to make sense of it, to bring compassion and really hold that really vulnerable, ashamed, unworthy, unlovable part of us. And once that part of us knows that we have their back, now the anger doesn't have to stand out and protect it. Tell me if that makes sense.

Tim Newman [00:10:37]:
So it's a lot deeper.

Nima Rahmany [00:10:38]:
Anger is just a protector.

Tim Newman [00:10:40]:
Right.

Nima Rahmany [00:10:40]:
Anger, we only, we react to try to protect against something more vulnerable. To heal from that anger, we got to go after and and understand with compassion that really vulnerable, unprotected part of us so that anger doesn't have to do it for us.

Tim Newman [00:10:56]:
Yeah. And I'm just going to just think this through here. Let's say we take it a different step and the anger sometimes maybe is more from being scared that you can't actually help somebody. So just take kids, for example, right? And they put themselves in positions that You know, you've told them 1,000 times what's going to happen. They do it. And now you, you lash out because you're scared because you can't help them or protect them. Is that the same type of—

Nima Rahmany [00:11:27]:
The child? Good question. All right. Can I, can I, can I dive deeper with you on that one?

Tim Newman [00:11:33]:
Oh, absolutely.

Nima Rahmany [00:11:34]:
Okay, great, Tim. So go to that moment where you've told the kid 100 times, but they did it anyway. Okay. Now you go into your body, into your body as you witness the kid doing it anyway. Here's my question. What are you making that mean about you? What are you making the fact that they did it again mean about you?

Tim Newman [00:11:59]:
Yeah.

Nima Rahmany [00:12:00]:
It's an I am statement your nervous system is making. Tell me what it is.

Tim Newman [00:12:04]:
Answer it. That I failed. I'm a failure.

Nima Rahmany [00:12:07]:
Bingo. So that is shame.

Tim Newman [00:12:10]:
Okay.

Nima Rahmany [00:12:11]:
So again, anger, and then you lash out at him,

Tim Newman [00:12:16]:
right?

Nima Rahmany [00:12:17]:
Because you want to protect yourself from the shame because you perceive yourself as a failure. It always comes back to that, but this is an unconscious reaction. So Carl Jung says, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you'll call it fate, and you have no idea that you're doing it. But I had to really look at this, is that going underneath, there's always shame That causes you to lash out. So when you really look and see what part of you feels like a failure, where did you, where did you think that you failed? How old is that? Because this is a historical one. This isn't, you know, most parents are like that. They lash out at their kids. It's not because the kid's a failure.

Nima Rahmany [00:12:56]:
It's because we perceive ourselves as failures as a parent, which then goes back to our childhood. So it all always trickles back to this vulnerable part of us. And this is what becoming trigger-proof actually is. reaction at the vulnerable part of us that we're trying to protect.

Tim Newman [00:13:14]:
That's such an interesting and thought-provoking concept because the scenario that I was thinking about, and I've told the story a few times, that my youngest daughter's a lot like me, type A. We're one way, we're very different. She's a very, very good salesperson. I mean, Very good. And she was working in a position and it was kind of a toxic workplace. And I was trying to help her through it. And I said, you just keep looking for other positions and keep doing what you're supposed to do and being you. And she called me one day and I knew she was going on vacation.

Tim Newman [00:13:54]:
So she called me one day while she was on vacation and she said, Dad, I quit my job. via email while I was on vacation. And I just immediately, I wanted to reach through the phone, through the phone. And I thought, okay, you've killed your reputation. You'll never get another job. You've ruined everything that you've been working for for the last 5 or 10 years. That was— so it's those types of things that when you think about now, You know what you, what you said, I've got to go back and look at—

Nima Rahmany [00:14:31]:
You made it about you.

Tim Newman [00:14:33]:
I did. And where did that actually come from?

Nima Rahmany [00:14:37]:
Right? Are you, are you willing to look right now? Because I can help you find it. This is what I do. Okay, go to that moment where you felt that she, she told you about the email. Go in, I think I failed, and just feel the I'm a failure for a moment. Feel the I failed her as a father, I failed to guide her, feel the I failed, and just put your hand over where you feel that in your

Tim Newman [00:15:00]:
body? It's right here, right? I'd say just above my stomach, below my heart.

Nima Rahmany [00:15:06]:
Totally. Sit with it for a moment, Tim, as you're sitting there and just noticing it, and just go back in time. When's your earliest memory where you felt like you failed? Ooh. And you're just going to now start to see little memories. If you just go into the sensation, little faint things will start to pop up. How old do you feel?

Tim Newman [00:15:33]:
Oh, I was probably 12, 13, maybe.

Nima Rahmany [00:15:36]:
Bingo.

Tim Newman [00:15:37]:
Maybe even younger. Yeah,

Nima Rahmany [00:15:39]:
bingo. That's it. And so that I'm a failure you've been carrying with you and it gets triggered in day-to-day life oftentimes with our children. Our children are designed to trigger our unresolved wounds. As an invitation for us to go and heal and parent ourselves while we're learning to parent them. That's the work, my friend.

Tim Newman [00:16:05]:
That's amazing.

Nima Rahmany [00:16:06]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:16:10]:
Wow.

Nima Rahmany [00:16:10]:
Thanks for letting me go deep with you, but this is what I do each day. This is helping people really find the root of their reactivity because it's never about what it's about. It's never about what it's about.

Tim Newman [00:16:24]:
That to me is the truly interesting piece that you can really get deep with. Because if you're honest with yourself, and that's really, I think, what a lot of things come down to, you have to be honest with yourself. If you're not honest with yourself, nothing else is real. Right?

Nima Rahmany [00:16:44]:
Correct. Correct. This is an honest with yourself type of methodology, as you have to get to

Tim Newman [00:16:50]:
the truth.

Nima Rahmany [00:16:50]:
And when you look at it, I'm willing to bet you if you go back to that scene, whether you were 12, 13 years old and whatever made you feel like a failure, whatever reaction mom or dad gave you at that time, you want to have your mind blown. They were reacting from their own perception of failure that came from their childhood. So this is intergenerational and depending on how you reacted to your daughter, that gets passed down to her. So I have a 6-year-old son.

Tim Newman [00:17:24]:
So I pass that on to my kids.

Nima Rahmany [00:17:26]:
Depending on how you react, depending on how you reacted to her, depending on how you reacted to her, and you created another scene for her that she'll look back on the same way you had when you were 12 or 13. We didn't go into that right now, but this is how it passes intergenerationally without us even knowing it. So that's why I have a 6-year-old son. I do this work because I want to really make sure that whatever he brings up within me, I'm able to integrate it quickly so that I can communicate to him as an adult rather than as a 12 or 13-year-old. Because what happens is when you react, you become that 13-year-old again.

Tim Newman [00:18:06]:
Yeah. Yeah, and I can see that. I can see it. And

Nima Rahmany [00:18:13]:
You can't speak with confidence when you're 12 or 13. You have to be able to integrate and bring your adult self back online.

Tim Newman [00:18:23]:
I've got grandkids, and my oldest granddaughter is 6. And I've had conversations with both my daughters who have kids now, and we talk about how we deal with deal with kids. And I see a lot of what I said and did from them where now I'm saying, okay, you got to remember, she's 6.

Nima Rahmany [00:18:54]:
Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:18:55]:
He's 4.

Nima Rahmany [00:18:57]:
Right.

Tim Newman [00:18:58]:
Right?

Nima Rahmany [00:18:58]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:18:59]:
And so it's different. And now understanding that You know, that they're reacting the way that I reacted when they were 6 and 4.

Nima Rahmany [00:19:11]:
Correct. So it's very humbling, isn't it?

Tim Newman [00:19:14]:
It really is. Really is.

Nima Rahmany [00:19:16]:
That's why doing the work is really important, so that we can, you know, make sure that we don't pass those habits on to the next generation. The good news is you can shift that. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:19:28]:
Yes, you can. Again, Doing the work that you do. And again, coming back to the whole idea, if we want to make change, if we want to change how we do things, how we react to things, how we think about things, number one, we have to be open to it. And number two, we have to be honest about what we're doing, what we're thinking, what we're saying. Yeah.

Nima Rahmany [00:19:55]:
And we got to get to that vulnerable part underneath.

Tim Newman [00:19:58]:
I think that's probably the hardest part. That's the hardest part.

Nima Rahmany [00:20:00]:
You're right.

Tim Newman [00:20:01]:
Is being willing to be open and honest.

Nima Rahmany [00:20:04]:
Correct.

Tim Newman [00:20:04]:
And

Nima Rahmany [00:20:05]:
vulnerable.

Tim Newman [00:20:06]:
Yeah. And it's okay.

Nima Rahmany [00:20:08]:
Thank you for doing it for me right now. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:20:10]:
Oh, no, you did it.

Nima Rahmany [00:20:11]:
No, you did great.

Tim Newman [00:20:13]:
Thanks for doing it. Because I also believe, just take my audience, for example. If I don't do that, then what am I doing if they don't see other people?

Nima Rahmany [00:20:25]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:20:26]:
Being willing to do it, why would they do it? Okay, it's nice.

Nima Rahmany [00:20:29]:
Leaders got to go first. Yeah,

Tim Newman [00:20:31]:
right.

Nima Rahmany [00:20:32]:
Exactly it. Yeah. And it's a big part of speaking with confidence too. Speaking with confidence is not about hiding your vulnerabilities. The most confident speakers bring their vulnerabilities out and say, hey, look at what I did and this is what I learned. Because I've now integrated that. So as a leader, the more parts of you that what we just did was integrate, bring to the conscious awareness, and then learn how to have understanding and compassion towards those parts of us, we become more confident because we're hiding less. There's less of us that we're hiding from.

Tim Newman [00:21:13]:
And it's, again, it's so good for other people to see. Let's talk a little bit. Another work or school or type of situation, you're afraid to speak up because you don't want to sound stupid. Is it the same type of—

Nima Rahmany [00:21:33]:
Yep.

Tim Newman [00:21:33]:
So back when you were a kid?

Nima Rahmany [00:21:36]:
Yeah. At some point in school, 5th grade, 4th grade, everybody remembers raising their hand, sounding stupid. In my community, when people start working, I have community called the Cycle Breakers Collective and then we have these group calls and then I'm like, all right guys, anyone have any questions? And all of a sudden,

Tim Newman [00:21:55]:
nothing.

Nima Rahmany [00:21:55]:
People don't raise their hand, right? But then after the call is done, they'll text me or they'll ask questions and then I'm like, why didn't you ask earlier? Well, I didn't want to sound stupid. I said, well, this is where you have to practice sounding stupid and then surviving. So everybody has a wound of fear of looking stupid or sounding stupid. And the only way through that is to lean in and take the risk and be aware and see that little part of you that feels that 8-year-old, you know, 10-year-old that got humiliated in 5th grade or whatever, 4th grade, and you then develop a relationship with that part. It sounds really hokey, talking to yourself, having a relationship with yourself. These are skills we don't really learn in schools. Yeah. Most people don't really have a good relationship with themselves, but this is how you develop that loving, understanding, compassionate relationship with yourself is by understanding these shadowy parts of us that get triggered, that are afraid of looking stupid.

Nima Rahmany [00:23:01]:
And we look and turn towards these parts rather than running away from them. That's what the work of becoming trigger-proof is all about.

Tim Newman [00:23:08]:
Yeah, it's, it's, and And as you're saying, I'm thinking we don't have good relationships with ourselves because it's been passed on down by our parents and their parents who have

Nima Rahmany [00:23:17]:
terrible relationships

Tim Newman [00:23:19]:
with themselves

Nima Rahmany [00:23:19]:
too. And they're all—

Tim Newman [00:23:20]:
exactly.

Nima Rahmany [00:23:21]:
It's a culture of shame. Yep.

Tim Newman [00:23:25]:
And what role do you think social media plays in that as well? Because my guess is maybe it's parents, maybe it's the social aspect, whether it's our friends, whether it's our What role does that

Nima Rahmany [00:23:40]:
play? It just— it's an amp. Social media is an amplifier of all of those wounds, right? It amplifies everything that's inside. You know, you have parts of you that are jealous, parts of you that have envy, boom, gets amplified. Parts of you that are afraid of visibility gets amplified. So social media is just an amplifier for what's already there.

Tim Newman [00:24:04]:
As I'm looking back on specific things as a college professor and seeing some of those things in the classroom, when you take a step back, you can actually see it happening.

Nima Rahmany [00:24:20]:
Yeah, we are all walking wounded. We are all little children in adult bodies, and most of us have not taken the time to examine that and to repair those unresolved woundings that we're carrying and so because of that, we're all walking around like immature adolescents in adult bodies. Doesn't even matter if you're, you know, a parent or a grandparent even.

Tim Newman [00:24:47]:
Right.

Nima Rahmany [00:24:48]:
You can still react in the same kind of adolescent and childish ways. Doesn't matter in those moments when we get activated. Those woundings come up. You can— many of us know our parents. They're still emotionally immature. They don't know how to apologize properly. They don't know how to have a repair conversation. They, you know, it's a skill that we don't take the time to learn and it's not taught in schools and you can tell when someone's integrated.

Nima Rahmany [00:25:21]:
There's a truth that comes to them. There's a safety that they feel in their body. They're not performing. when they're speaking. It's not just a performance. So speaking with confidence can also turn into a performance, which is based on a wound, right? So when somebody's truly speaking with confidence, they're not trying or performing. They're just being. And that can only happen when you have really like healed, healed with those insecure parts of yourself.

Tim Newman [00:25:55]:
Do you find that there are gender differences? I mean, I just think from the perspective that men would never bring it up. You just bury it deep down inside and just never talk about it.

Nima Rahmany [00:26:09]:
Yeah. I mean, women have a tendency to, when challenges are coming up, they want to tend and befriend. They want to connect and communicate. Men, we're not groomed to connect. We're groomed to kind of like hide our vulnerabilities. So we generally, as a general rule, we don't ask for help. We don't share our vulnerabilities. We usually just shut down or we hide.

Nima Rahmany [00:26:35]:
And so there are gender differences. It's how we react to distress. We have differences, right? We men will go towards themselves and we'll use substances or fantasy world, whether it's video games, whether it's pornography to cope and to kind of like help us regulate through a challenging reality and women will have a tendency to connect and talk and express their emotions whereas men will usually stuff them away and that's why men are like 9 times more likely to unalive themselves. Unresolved emotion. The energy of emotion, the way that we relate with our own emotions dictates our well-being. You know, do we allow them to come through? Do we have a place that we can express them? Or do we stuff them away and pretend they're not there and put on a smile and perform around it? Those, those matter. And we're not really taught the skills and how to work through them.

Tim Newman [00:27:44]:
Yeah, it's funny you say that because I've got a friend. She's a, she's a grief counselor and When we talk, she always asks me how I'm doing. I say, I'm doing great. And she knows when I'm not being honest. She could just tell whether it's my facial expression, whether it's the tone. And she says, well, is that really how you're doing? And she knows almost right away. And I think part of that is—

Nima Rahmany [00:28:16]:
Your conditioning.

Tim Newman [00:28:18]:
Yeah, yeah,

Nima Rahmany [00:28:19]:
yeah, yeah. Most men don't have a group of men to be able to be honest and transparent with, and we lean on our wives just a little bit too much. And it's really important for men to have men that we can express ourselves and maybe have emotions and have a place to be vulnerable and then be seen and heard by other men. But generally speaking, we don't have it. So I've been really keen in creating that for my community. People who really are looking to become trigger-proof, how to become really heart-led leaders as well as, you know, not sacrificing their intimacy for that leadership. And we need each other in order to do that because we don't, we're not very good at it. And your friend was highlighting that, you know, your generation, Tim, how, I'm not sure.

Nima Rahmany [00:29:14]:
Can you share how old you are? Are you, are you open?

Tim Newman [00:29:16]:
I'm 58. Yeah, I'm 58.

Nima Rahmany [00:29:17]:
58. Okay. I'm 50. Our generation, we, we, you did not have emotional literacy training. You didn't know how to register, oh, this is grief. This is how I'm feeling. Ooh, I'm feeling some guilt. This is what it is.

Nima Rahmany [00:29:36]:
Like how to label and express and communicate what these emotions are, let alone register how they feel in our body. Your generation, my generation didn't really have that kind of education and so we're suffering because of that because, you know, that's what the whole goal of communication is about, is about including somebody in your inner world. That's what intimacy is. Into me, I see. Into me, you see. But if I don't know how to register and understand the texture of those feelings and emotions, I can't communicate them to you. a way that helps you understand and connect. So, most communication courses and all that stuff are talking about the content, whereas what I've been really interested in is the context, who you're being when you're communicating it.

Nima Rahmany [00:30:34]:
And that goes way deeper.

Tim Newman [00:30:36]:
It does. It does. And if you can get the content, if you get the context right, the deeper stuff right, The content becomes, I think, a lot easier.

Nima Rahmany [00:30:48]:
Flows. You don't have to worry about content because the context is taken care of. This is the thing is whenever I'm speaking, whenever I'm teaching, I don't memorize the content. I get into the context of who am I being for these people? What is my role? What do I believe? And when I'm connected to the context, text. The content just flows. I never have any scripting. I don't script anything. Whenever I'm being interviewed or when I'm speaking or when I'm teaching my classes, I don't actually come prepared with anything.

Nima Rahmany [00:31:26]:
I'm literally coming in and people asking questions and I just— it flows through because I'm clear on the context. Who I'm being.

Tim Newman [00:31:37]:
Yeah. When we had our pre-interview talk, you said that, and I was like, okay, I've never had a guest kind of say that before because we've always said, okay, this is the direction we're going to go. Yeah. And then I would prepare that way. And when you said it initially, I was like, oh, gosh, what are we going to do? How am I going to I'm, you know, I'm thinking about my production, how, you know, what's the flow of this going to be? I just started thinking about what you, what you said in terms of, you know, what are some of the pain points of the audience? And we've— yeah, we've talked about a bunch of them already. It's—

Nima Rahmany [00:32:19]:
yeah. You asked me. Yeah, that was the question before in the pre-interview. You were like, which direction would, would go good for you? And I was like,

Tim Newman [00:32:28]:
yeah,

Nima Rahmany [00:32:29]:
I already know this work. Like, I'm living it. You tell me what the problem is that everybody is dealing with, who are your listeners? And I will fill and meet that need because I know who I am. I'm not performing here.

Tim Newman [00:32:48]:
That's a perfect example of where we need to get to and where my audience needs to get to. And let's take that just another step further. You talk about that. You know what you want to say in a difficult conversation until you're actually in it. And then it goes, where did all my communication skills go? Where did the thought process go?

Nima Rahmany [00:33:11]:
You can't know what that is. The answer is when you're 8 years old in that moment. So in that difficult moment, if you become an 8-year-old, all of the communication education gets thrown out the window. However, if you learn how to respond in that moment when you get triggered, In that difficult conversation where you're about to set a boundary, you're already doing the inner work of trying to suss out, okay, so what are you making all of that mean? Oh, I'm not worthy. I'm a failure. For example, let's use your example as a parent. I'm a failure. That 12-year-old kid that comes out inside of you that feels like he's failing, and then what you do is you take a moment and you connect with that 12-year-old and you parent him.

Nima Rahmany [00:33:56]:
and you let him know that, hey Tim, I got you no matter what. You know, none of this is your fault and you are never going to be a failure to me. I love you no matter what and bring that beautiful father energy that you have for your daughters towards you and in that moment, your nervous system goes from being feeling threatened to now feeling safe because the only threat that your nervous system is really feeling is the threat of your own self-judgment. So in that moment when you've resolved that and you've repaired with you, your adult self comes back online. Now in that moment when your daughter is, you know, giving you that news, you're able to kind of be with you for a moment and now instead of reacting to her saying, oh my God, you've ruined everything. Instead of that, which is what you were saying towards your 12-year-old self.

Tim Newman [00:34:54]:
Right.

Nima Rahmany [00:34:54]:
You don't have to say towards your 12-year-old self anymore. You can basically say, hey, I know you, you know, you, you felt like you had a really good reason for that, and you're gonna be okay no matter what. I have faith in you.

Tim Newman [00:35:09]:
And she was. And she is.

Nima Rahmany [00:35:11]:
And she is. And she was.

Tim Newman [00:35:13]:
She is.

Nima Rahmany [00:35:13]:
Exactly. She's great now, right?

Tim Newman [00:35:16]:
Yeah. Again, I remember when that, when that happened. It's, it's like Clear as day. And after some time passed, and I've got a good relationship with the kids, and I did go in and apologize, and I told her why I reacted the way that I did.

Nima Rahmany [00:35:33]:
Beautiful.

Tim Newman [00:35:34]:
Yeah. Now

Nima Rahmany [00:35:35]:
you repaired the hurt, which is great.

Tim Newman [00:35:37]:
It doesn't make it— it doesn't make my reaction right.

Nima Rahmany [00:35:42]:
No, no, no, no, no.

Tim Newman [00:35:43]:
But you're standing, right?

Nima Rahmany [00:35:45]:
Yeah. Understanding. Look, There's no such thing as a perfect parent. I am not a perfect dad. You're not a perfect dad. Nobody expects our parents to be perfect. However, if you have the willingness to repair, that's all that's needed is that when we do eff it up, we can come back and go, hey bud, you know, I didn't like the way that I reacted. What was the impact on you? Let's talk about what we can do next time.

Nima Rahmany [00:36:13]:
and we're learning from it and growing and through that repair, the relationship becomes stronger and that's what leadership is. Leadership isn't perfection. Leadership is being truthful, being like, hey, I effed it up and here's how I'm gonna do better.

Tim Newman [00:36:29]:
Yeah.

Nima Rahmany [00:36:29]:
Right. I certainly don't expect myself to be perfect. I'm gonna do my very best and when I screw it up, let me know. I'm gonna hear— I want to hear about it and I want to do better. I'm not here to be perfect. I'm here to just be truthful and be— and share what's on my heart, what I'm inspired to share, and why it's important to me. So that's why I'm doing what I'm doing, not to try to perform confidence or perfection.

Tim Newman [00:36:55]:
Perfection, right? So how do we know when keeping the peace is really just fear of conflict?

Nima Rahmany [00:37:01]:
The first thing that we would do— that's a great question. So it's a moment-to-moment practice. So in that moment, That you get triggered right there. You have a decision to make. Do I raise my hand and say, hey, this came up? You know, it depends on the moment and so I check in with my body and my body goes into a constriction and in that moment, I can feel a conflict coming up and I can feel this part of me that wants to avoid it. So You're going to make it. You're going to make a decision. You're using a hypothetical, right? So I'll give you an example.

Nima Rahmany [00:37:41]:
Yesterday, this happened with me. I was at a kind of like a physiotherapist appointment. I booked a bunch of sessions and I prepaid for them and they charged my credit card for the next round before I gave the consent and there was a challenge. So I I called them up and we got into a little bit of an argument and I was like, should I just keep the peace and be, just let it go? Or do I say something? And in that moment, it was uncomfortable. My body constricted, but then I said, no, this doesn't, this doesn't work for me. And I spoke up in that moment. So most of the time, keeping, keeping the peace is a fear of conflict, right? Right. And then there's, there's truth is a paradox because Truth is a paradox because at different times it's like, you know what? What's the outcome that I want to have right now? Does it make sense for me to bring it up right now and to be right? Is being right more important? So there's another kind of angle here is that, do I want to be right here in this moment right now? Do I want to be— do I need to— does my need to be right? supersede my need to have kind of like a sense of peace.

Nima Rahmany [00:39:02]:
So it's not a black and white thing, Tim. This is a— there's a moment-to-moment decision and also the fact we got to contend with is that the truth is a paradox. So yes, there's a part of me that wants to keep the peace and avoid conflict. Then there's another part of me that needs to be right and needs for other people to acknowledge that I'm right. So this becomes the dance of working with both of these parts of me in each moment.

Tim Newman [00:39:35]:
Yeah. And that's, that's, again, it's so interesting. And as you're talking, I'm the type of person where I wouldn't say I like conflict, but I like pushback. I like the, I like the back and forth and the give and take.

Nima Rahmany [00:39:49]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:39:51]:
For a number of reasons. But I also understand that there are times when it's okay, let it go. Yeah, exactly. You could be as right as you want to be, but still be wrong.

Nima Rahmany [00:40:07]:
100%.

Tim Newman [00:40:09]:
Yeah. And I guess that's part of the learning process.

Nima Rahmany [00:40:13]:
This just happened with a client. He was giving feedback. And I could see that he was projecting some of his pain onto me and in that moment, I wanted to be right and I wanted to contend and then I stopped and I thought, in this case, I don't need to be right. I'm okay with— like I'm okay with him having his perception. I wasn't afraid of conflict. It was just in that kind of like client

Tim Newman [00:40:44]:
Yeah.

Nima Rahmany [00:40:45]:
Interaction, I didn't need to be right in that moment. I could let go and let them, you know, be right. With my parents, same thing. I'm now working on not needing to be right, you know, and with my son, I'm okay not needing to be right. With my wife, I'm okay not needing to be right all the time. This has been my practice and but this is important because if I'm usually You know, there's fight, there's flight, there's freeze, and then there's fawn. These are our trauma responses, our attachment distress responses. If I'm normally a fighter, then I have to fight back and all the time, all the time, then it's probably a good idea for me to practice letting go of the need to be right.

Tim Newman [00:41:29]:
Right.

Nima Rahmany [00:41:30]:
If I'm usually a fawner and I constantly appease and I'm constantly avoiding conflict, then it's a good practice for me to speak up.

Tim Newman [00:41:39]:
Yes.

Nima Rahmany [00:41:40]:
Right. So it's, it's, it's where is my growth edge? What is my next kind of like level of growth that I'd like to work on? So those who are more of the avoidant types, their work is to lean in and to connect and to work on communicating. Those who are the fighters, their practice is to kind of like really examine their need to be right all the time. And to start to become more compassionate towards other people's perspectives. So we're all growing and we're all kind of at a growth edge. There's no one size fits all.

Tim Newman [00:42:16]:
Again, as I'm thinking about that, how do we know when that happens? Right. Why does this— we keep asking ourselves, when do we switch from why does this keep happening to me and start asking why do I keep participating in this pattern? So it's happening to me. That to me is kind of a defensive thing. And happening, why do I keep participating in this is more of an open, thought-provoking type of way of looking at it.

Nima Rahmany [00:42:55]:
Yeah. Why do I find myself in this situation? And so, I think the question you're trying to ask is, how do we know where we're at? You ask. You ask people. You get feedback from the people that matter the most. You take the risk in asking the scary question of asking feedback. Well, hey, what do you see? What do you see my blind spots? What do you see my patterns? What are my biggest weaknesses that you notice? And just listen. And that's pretty scary for most people to do. They don't like doing that because Generally speaking, as a human race, most people suck at receiving feedback.

Nima Rahmany [00:43:33]:
Yes. We get harmed. We feel harmed by feedback. We suffer from narcissistic injury whenever we get feedback. So asking questions and finding out, you know, what do you see? You know, and they're like, yeah, you're always pushing back. You're always a contrarian. You always need to be right. Well, you know, that's something for me to look at.

Nima Rahmany [00:43:56]:
You know what, and usually it comes from a wound from childhood where being wrong meant I was not lovable. So you have to go around proving to everybody that you're right and in so doing alienating yourself. My need to be right supersedes my desire to be in a relationship with you. I had a conversation about that with my dad. He's like, your need to be— I told him, I said, your need to be right is more important than your need to be in this relationship with me. And he's like, why can't I have both? I'm like, yeah, this is the, the age of immature parenting. You know, immature parents is that they haven't done their inner work. And so it's about being right.

Nima Rahmany [00:44:37]:
And then they, this is why there's so much estrangement happening because their need to be right is more important than the need to be in the relationship. And so we suffer when we don't do the work.

Tim Newman [00:44:49]:
It's funny, but it's not right. It's funny that these things happen, But it's not tragic because of the— it's tragic. It really is.

Nima Rahmany [00:44:57]:
We do not learn. It's tragic that we do not learn relational skills.

Tim Newman [00:45:01]:
Yeah,

Nima Rahmany [00:45:02]:
we, we skills to intimacy, to really have a person feel seen and heard and understood. I never learned those things. It wasn't until my last relationship blew up because I was doing all the things. I was speaking with confidence. I was teaching, leading. I just couldn't make relationships work. And then I realized, wow, my whole life is based on a performance to try to avoid this really vulnerable, insecure part of me. So I stopped doing that and I started going in and really understanding all of those parts of myself and learning how to love them, understand them.

Nima Rahmany [00:45:39]:
And as I loved myself more, then I didn't need to perform as much and I could be present with people and not be so outcome-oriented. That's why when you ask, you know, how do you want this conversation to go? I said, you ask the questions based on what's happening for the people that you're leading and I will serve. I want to just serve what's going on with them. It doesn't matter the way that I want this conversation to go. I want it to go in a way where it would serve your audience most, right? And so that kind of like way of being happened as a result of getting out of the identity of having to perform and look good and really be there and just serve.

Tim Newman [00:46:27]:
Your book, it's built around becoming trigger-proof. And the person who's listening keeps thinking, why do I keep reacting this way even though I know better? What are

Nima Rahmany [00:46:38]:
you

Tim Newman [00:46:38]:
really hoping that they finally understand about themselves After reading the book?

Nima Rahmany [00:46:43]:
The book doesn't come out for a while. It's still in the finishing stages. It's coming. There's other ways of connecting. What I hope for them to see is that every time they get triggered, they abandon themselves. Every time we get triggered in that moment of activation, we abandon ourselves and our work is to resolve that self-abandonment first, right away. But by self-abandonment, I mean like this whole thing with your daughter that you got triggered. She decided to quit her job and you made it mean that you're a failure.

Tim Newman [00:47:27]:
Failure, right.

Nima Rahmany [00:47:28]:
That's self-abandonment because she wasn't— she didn't— she wasn't telling you you're a failure. You were telling yourself you were a failure. As a father. And so that self-abandonment is conditioned. It's something that happens completely unconsciously and you didn't even know that you were doing it. We had to kind of like, I had to hold the mirror up for you, Tim. You're like, whoa, I didn't realize that. So becoming trigger-proof is the exploration of all the ways in which we abandon ourselves and learn how to resolve that so that we can then show up as a heart-centered, integrated, confident person.

Nima Rahmany [00:48:09]:
Because your confidence, you can't, you can't be confident when you're abandoning yourself.

Tim Newman [00:48:15]:
No, you can't. Yeah.

Nima Rahmany [00:48:18]:
No,

Tim Newman [00:48:18]:
that's so true.

Nima Rahmany [00:48:20]:
You

Tim Newman [00:48:20]:
can't.

Nima Rahmany [00:48:22]:
And we're doing it unconsciously every single, like 30 to 80 times a day. So can you see the problem? Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:48:29]:
Yeah.

Nima Rahmany [00:48:30]:
So this is a new way of relating with reality, and that's what I hope that the people who do my work really come to the other side of realizing. It's very empowering to know that, wow, I didn't realize I've been abandoning myself, and now I'm going to resolve that.

Tim Newman [00:48:47]:
Yeah. And, and I mean, it's, it's— I don't want to make this too simplistic. It's, it's easy to see once you have this conversation. Doing the work is much harder.

Nima Rahmany [00:48:59]:
Once you look, once you, once you, yeah, once you actually do the practice, once you actually reflect, once you actually feel like, look how difficult it was. You had to sit there and go, hmm, you have to get vulnerable and go, I'm, I failed her. I'm a failure. Boom. We generally have an ego that tries to protect us from feeling that. So most people, I'm surprised, like you, you surprised me there, Tim, because most of the time when I introduce this work to people, they'd go, oh, I don't feel that way. No, not at all. I never,

Tim Newman [00:49:32]:
I

Nima Rahmany [00:49:32]:
didn't feel— no, no, no, I didn't. I was great. No, I'm— and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, that's your ego. That's your ego right there. So you really have to practice dropping the ego and getting vulnerable, which I really commend you to do. So this is the practice of just getting truthful. We deceive ourselves. We have this ego protector that says, no, I'm good.

Nima Rahmany [00:49:57]:
I'm— everything's fine. It's like, we're all carrying a lot of pain and we don't— confidence doesn't mean pretending the pain isn't there. Confidence means making contact with the pain and walking beside it and speaking, speaking alongside it in the passenger seat. Rather than trying to pretend that it's not there.

Tim Newman [00:50:23]:
Yep. You're so right. If people want to start working on this, where would you suggest that they start and where can they connect with you?

Nima Rahmany [00:50:33]:
The best place is I have a quiz I will get my team to send you if you can. Okay. It's a quiz. It's called the Trigger Proof Leader Map, and it gives you kind of like your archetype and it answers up your exact type of leadership. Style and then what you would do is hit reply on your email and tell me exactly what backstory is, what's going on, what's happening. My website is becometriggerproof.com. Yeah, becometriggerproof.com and there's very easily able to be connected to and if anybody really has any questions, they can ask and I can help point them in the right direction. The best place to begin, I have an event every month.

Nima Rahmany [00:51:23]:
It's called the Trigger Proof Experience where I show you how to dismantle conflict. I take the worst conflict you're going through and I take you through a— it's a 6-hour journey. Used to be a 3-day live event that COVID hit and then I said, can I take this 3-day event and turn it into 6 hours? And it worked beautifully. So we just kept it. And from Zoom, from the comfort of your home, we take that event, we take the worst trigger and we dismantle it and help you see the truth underneath it.

Tim Newman [00:51:55]:
Wow. That's powerful. Yeah. Well, Nima, thank you so much for joining us. I'll make sure I get that link in the show notes.

Nima Rahmany [00:52:06]:
You bet.

Tim Newman [00:52:06]:
This has been a wonderful conversation. Very insightful. And very thought-provoking. So thank you so much.

Nima Rahmany [00:52:14]:
Thanks for having me, Tim.

Tim Newman [00:52:16]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free ebook, The Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Forming for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We'll talk to you next time. Take care.