Practical Frameworks for Clear Communication from a Former Rocket Scientist

Tim Newman [00:00:06]:
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast that’s here to help you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I’m your host, Tim Newman, and I’m excited to take you on a journey to become a better public speaker. If you’re like most people, just the thought of speaking in front of a crowd or talking during an important meeting can trigger all kinds of anxiety. Trust me. I know what that’s like. I gave my first speech as a senior in college. I was so nervous. As soon as I got to the front of the room and opened my mouth to speak, I threw up.

Tim Newman [00:00:36]:
I have learned a lot since then, and I’m here to help others overcome their fear of messing up or sounding stupid. Today’s guest on the Speaking with Confidence podcast is someone that lived up to his childhood reputation in ways that nobody expected. As a kid, Chris Fennings’ friends used to say, Fennings got the formula because they knew he had an answer for everything. Fast forward to today, and this engineer and rocket scientist has turned his attention to crafting the formula for clear communication. He’s taken experiences gathered over his career in a variety of industries and found ways to create formulas, systems, and practices that anyone can apply. Whether you wanna write effective emails, capture an interviewer’s attention, or increase your chances of being heard by colleagues, Chris has suggestions based on science, experience, and practice. He’s written award winning books, been featured in the Harvard Business Review, and today, he shared it all with the Speaking with Confidence community. As you listen to our conversation, you’ll hear about concepts like framing, how the letter f factors into reading large amounts of text, and personal challenges that you can use to improve your skills.

Tim Newman [00:01:47]:
You’ll be entertained with a few personal stories about our families, and I guess we’ll all find out if our spouses truly listen to our interviews. All kidding aside, I’m confident you will not only enjoy the episode, but will also glean valuable insights from Chris Fanning. Be sure to listen till the end, and I encourage you to pick up one of my new favorite books, The First Minute, How to Start Conversations That Get Results. Chris Fenning makes it easier for us to communicate at work. He helps expert talk to nonexperts, teams talk to executives, and much more. Chris’ practical methods are used in organizations like Google, NATO, and have appeared in Harvard Business Review. He is also the author he is also the author of multiple award winning books on communication and training that have been translated into 16 languages. Chris, welcome to the show.

Tim Newman [00:02:41]:
I I really appreciate you joining us.

Chris Fenning [00:02:44]:
Well, Tim, thank you very much. It’s nice to be here speaking with confidence.

Tim Newman [00:02:49]:
Well, you know, I I I tell, my students and the people that I coach that, you know, what we do, we’re not doctors, we’re not lawyers, we’re not building bridges or architects, and what we do is rocket science. It’s talking people, and it turns out you’re an actual rocket scientist. And Yes. So, talk a little bit about, you know, your your background and and how you, you know, transitioned into, focusing on communication.

Chris Fenning [00:03:21]:
Absolutely. And, yes, you’re right. This isn’t rocket science, and I can say that because by training, I was a rocket scientist. My that’s what my degree was in. But I’m not a rocket scientist anymore. You definitely don’t want me sending anything up into space. Not anymore. But I can talk about it fairly confidently.

Chris Fenning [00:03:41]:
So what what happened? How did I go from being an engineer to being somebody who teaches communication and writes about communication skill? Well, it it took a career. It took, 6 different industries, starting in defense, working in telecoms, health care, the travel industry for a while, bunch of other things. And over 20 years and over 30 different countries that I was working in, I experienced a lot of different communication styles, different communication training. And throughout my journey in my my career, my employed career as a project manager and as a director at an IT company, that gave me the skills to be able to communicate better. And I kept finding gaps. And whenever I found a gap in the training I received or in something that I or my team wasn’t able to do, I found ways to fill the gap, either by reaching out to other experts, reading books, taking courses, or finding the answers for myself. And after 20 years of being employed in those different roles, I took the leap of going into my own business and sharing what I’d learned and what I’d practiced and what I’d found. And, now I write books and teach.

Chris Fenning [00:04:59]:
So you’ve

Tim Newman [00:05:00]:
come from a a wide range of industries, like you said, in a long time, and and even multiple countries. Were there any constants across industries or or across cultures or or countries that you saw in terms of communication?

Chris Fenning [00:05:15]:
Oh, so many.

Tim Newman [00:05:16]:
Good or bad?

Chris Fenning [00:05:18]:
Yes to both. There are many, many good things and many bad things. I’ll start with the easy ones. The complaints that we have in, you’re you’re in the States. I’m currently in the Netherlands. The complaints that we have about meetings and emails and people not getting to the point and the person who always interrupt, Those are pretty much everywhere in, Western and North African countries. The interrupting is very different when you get into India and Asia because there’s far more of a cultural respect for each other. Right.

Chris Fenning [00:05:53]:
And, relational hierarchy within organizations interrupting is not something that is acceptable there. So there’s there’s a big difference, but most of the things like meetings that don’t produce anything, they’re everywhere. That that is a global problem.

Tim Newman [00:06:09]:
But so so it’s not just us, and I I feel I feel a little bit better about that.

Chris Fenning [00:06:15]:
It’s not just us. No. No. It’s not. And there’s always someone who dominates a conversation.

Tim Newman [00:06:20]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:06:20]:
And then there’s people have fear of being judged. The fear of public speaking is a a global fear. And, yeah, so very, very similar problems in every in every culture. The the differences come in how we how we communicate socially and how much time is spent, in so social communication at the beginning of a meeting. So Spain, in particular, if if we’re looking at Western Europe, it’s totally acceptable. In fact, it’s really expected to spend time in just general conversation before you get to the work topics. I’m talking about work at this point.

Tim Newman [00:07:02]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:07:03]:
And having those those social conversations first is an expected part. If you go in there and go straight to the point in a very Dutch or American way, or or Eastern European or Russian way, which is very direct, then that’s going to that’s gonna put a few people a sort of few noses out of joint and ruffle a few feathers because they’d be like, slow or slow down. Let

Tim Newman [00:07:24]:
let’s actually Right?

Chris Fenning [00:07:25]:
They’ll connect.

Tim Newman [00:07:26]:
Connecting is so important. You know, getting to know the people that you’re working with or or working for, the more connection that you have, the better rapport that you have, the much easier the work product is go is gonna be and the and the much better the work product’s gonna be.

Chris Fenning [00:07:44]:
Yes. It honestly, I I don’t know if you picked up a lot. I sort of hesitated as I said yes because I agree with you. And there is a bucketload of evidence that says teams particularly that have close social connections and people who’ve really integrated at a social personal level perform better. But when it comes to work, work is transactional. And if the majority of our focus is on the social side and nobody gets to the point, then actually that’s frustrating Right. And less productive than getting to you know, getting on with the actual work.

Tim Newman [00:08:22]:
Absolutely. But there’s a balance to be found. Balance here. Yeah. You know, I I I come from the sport industry and, you know, if you look at from a team, you know, a sport team, you know, the sport product on the field or on the court or what have you, you know, there there’s a lot of talk about, you know, the chemistry in the locker room, and it could be really good. You know, just take, you know, I don’t know if you follow football for us or the NFL. Not not not soccer, but but but American football. Right? So, you know, the the team that won the Super Bowl, the Kansas City Chiefs, they seem to have really good communication, real really good camaraderie, and and and and they play well together.

Tim Newman [00:09:03]:
But during the Super Bowl, there were a couple of blow ups on the sideline, and everybody thought that that was just normal because they just kinda got on with it and and let it go and and continue to play well. Now if you had the same thing on a team that is terrible, it’s kinda viewed as as negative. So there is that kind of balance.

Chris Fenning [00:09:24]:
It is. Yeah. The, the same behavior, but viewed through a different lens Mhmm. Is interpreted differently. And, unfortunately, when it comes to, for example, like gender in the workplace, an assertive man is seen as someone who is bold and confident. An assertive lady is there there aren’t good words used to describe that. Often described as bossy or out of place, and that’s same situation, different lens.

Tim Newman [00:09:51]:
Exactly. And we have to

Chris Fenning [00:09:52]:
get over When

Tim Newman [00:09:52]:
it comes

Chris Fenning [00:09:53]:
to the tool

Tim Newman [00:09:54]:
We we really need to get over that.

Chris Fenning [00:09:56]:
Yes. Yes, we do. And that’s a that is a long game cultural change that takes effort from all of us, and we should all be doing something about it, whether, first of all, checking our own language. And and I have this. I have a 7 year old daughter, and we are when we talk about her feelings, my wife and I, make sure that we’re using language that’s that’s sort of irrespective of gender. She’s confident. She’s not bossy. Right.

Chris Fenning [00:10:24]:
She knows her own mind. She’s not I I can’t even think of the other words now, but they we started off by using very clearly girl based terms that are only ever used for for the female gender

Tim Newman [00:10:36]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:10:37]:
And realized that’s what we were doing. So we checked ourselves to make sure we were using a more more appropriate, neutral, inclusive, just nonlabel y language. And then then that’s something in a personal story, but at work, we check ourselves and take these small steps. And then we should also be aware of other people and call out in a team when a team is not, not treating everybody with the same, the same respect.

Tim Newman [00:11:06]:
Right. That does come from culture or or team culture or organizational culture, and allowing people to have that space to to speak up for for whatever reason, for those types of things and and others as as well, what what you know, calling things out when when when you see it. And I also say that there’s a there’s a right there’s a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it as well.

Chris Fenning [00:11:28]:
There absolutely is. There absolutely is. We we could we could go down a real path on this. What I’d like to do, if I can, is go back to the team analogy Yeah. Yeah. That you used because I’m I’m not exactly sure what my thoughts are on this, so I’d like to sort of chat through an idea with you, live in this in this podcast. We often use team analogies for communication, and used a great one of the Kansas City Chiefs communicate really, really well, and that enabled them, or was one of the enabling factors to get really high performance. And, again, lots of studies available to support that.

Chris Fenning [00:12:05]:
The problem I have with it is I don’t think work is really comparable to a sports team, because very few teams at work function in that same cohesive way that a sports team does, a sports team needs. So the second handovers between each player, people need to be keeping track where everyone is literally on the field. What is happening around them? What is their own play? What is the opposition doing? And if they don’t do it together, they fail. But that’s not been my experience in lots of different companies and countries around the world. Teams tend to be groups of individuals doing a similar job, or they, in some cases, they just happen to report to the same line manager and they’re in matrixed environments for projects where it’s far more individual contributor and the handoffs are less frequent and less critical than in a sports team. I don’t know if the sports analogies help or hurt us when we talk about communication at work, and I’m wondering what you think about that.

Tim Newman [00:13:08]:
Well, I agree with you, but I think that maybe that should be another shift that we should be making. Just just take any any business as a for example, let’s, let’s take education because that’s where that’s where I come from. As a college professor, I can’t teach my class if I don’t have students in it. So I’m relying on That’s yeah.

Chris Fenning [00:13:33]:
That that would be tough.

Tim Newman [00:13:34]:
I’m relying on a number of different other other people in departments, whether it’s the the admissions, whether it’s financial aid, whether it’s the the university scheduler or or our, department scheduler. It’s our department chair. So we we’ve got a number of different things that that have to work together to be able to to put on just one class, let let alone the multiple classes, my multiple classes, my colleagues’ multiple classes, the department’s multiple classes as as we go go out forward. And if one person fails or if one or or if one area doesn’t actually perform, everything else suffers. So if if there’s a problem with admissions, we’re we’re losing students, or we don’t have enough students. If I

Chris Fenning [00:14:22]:
choose It is floors and handoffs, but the handoffs are not to the second. There’s a lot more flexibility. Right. Do you think everyone in that chain of steps feels the same way that you’re all part of the same team?

Tim Newman [00:14:36]:
They don’t. To me, that therein lies the problem. If we have a if if we have a culture shift and we understand that we are a team and we do have to work together, that everybody is dependent upon everybody else doing their role or their job because I I also believe that everybody has a role. Do your role and do your role very, very well. And then that in and of itself helps helps the team.

Chris Fenning [00:15:04]:
Yeah. Well, there’s a there’s a lesson there for the for the listeners and for your students. You’ve got a big student audience here is do your job really well, but pay attention to the people around you, whether that’s upstream or downstream in your process, the people who you have to interact with, and those who are reliant on what you’re doing.

Tim Newman [00:15:23]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:15:23]:
And communicating in all of those directions is really important to a successful career.

Tim Newman [00:15:30]:
Exactly. And here here’s another example. So, you know, so we’re recording this in June of of 2024. I’ve gotta turn in what I think I want my schedule for the spring of 25 very, very shortly. And to me, that makes my head explode because there’s so to me, there’s that’s just so far down the road, but I also understand that other things have to take place on many other different levels for that for that to happen. So it may not be Yes. Okay. It may not be on my time frame and time schedule, but

Chris Fenning [00:16:05]:
Yeah. You’re not doing the thing.

Tim Newman [00:16:07]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:16:08]:
You’re not doing the thing until spring, but the classes are published at the beginning of September when students enroll. So all of the schedules need to be available and vetted and loaded onto the websites and everything by September, which is only two and a half months away. Right. And when you factor in summer break and all of the the schedule juggling and room allocation and everything else that needs to happen, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And now we’re we’re really looking at scheduling theory and project management.

Tim Newman [00:16:36]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:16:36]:
And it still comes back to the same the same core principle, though, is do our job well, but be aware of how it affects everybody else.

Tim Newman [00:16:45]:
Yeah.

Chris Fenning [00:16:46]:
And just because it doesn’t it’s not important to me right now doesn’t mean it’s not important to other people.

Tim Newman [00:16:52]:
Exactly. Yeah.

Chris Fenning [00:16:53]:
And vice versa. Important to me doesn’t doesn’t necessarily mean important for you.

Tim Newman [00:16:59]:
Right. And but but, again, a shift in culture, if we understand that and say, okay, maybe it may not be important to you and maybe, okay, you go do what you need to do, and then maybe I just need to help help you and pick up some slack somewhere else. You know, the the the whole idea that it’s not always about us. It’s not always it revolves around us.

Chris Fenning [00:17:21]:
Very true. And

Tim Newman [00:17:23]:
and again, if we could if we can be better, do our job and do it well, and sometimes our job is helping other people.

Chris Fenning [00:17:29]:
Yes. It is. And the thing all of these all of these topics have in common is clear, appropriate communication.

Tim Newman [00:17:38]:
Exactly.

Chris Fenning [00:17:39]:
And you just hit on a really important sort of tenet of all of this is, it’s not about me. It’s not about us. It’s about the personal people that we’re speaking to. And I want to give an example for that. So if I need something for my work to be successful, from my perspective, it’s about me and what I want. And that’s okay because it’s necessary for me to do my job and Right. Produce the thing that I’m trying to produce. But if I need your help, Tim, if I come and talk to you and it’s all about me, I need this thing for my work, for my things so I can deliver this, then I haven’t made it clear what why you need to be involved, what I want from you, why you should care, why it’s relevant.

Chris Fenning [00:18:23]:
And that makes it hard for you to get involved, care, and understand.

Tim Newman [00:18:26]:
Exactly.

Chris Fenning [00:18:28]:
So even though it’s about me, in my mind, when I talk to you, I need to frame and adapt my message to make it relevant from your perspective. Hey, Tim. I’d like your help. I’m trying to do this thing, and the reason I’d like your help is if I don’t do it, it’s gonna affect you in the spring. And now I’m showing why it’s relevant to you, and I’m gonna describe it in a way that’s relatable to you. So as you said just a few moments ago, it’s not about us. It’s about them. It’s about the audience.

Chris Fenning [00:19:02]:
And if anyone listening to this can change one thing about the way they communicate, one thing, and it’s hard to boil it down, but the thing that I believe makes the biggest difference is if you can consider the other person’s perspective and adapt your message to their perspective, you will stand out from from all of your peers as being a great communicator, and you’ll just be more successful at getting things done.

Tim Newman [00:19:29]:
And how much better would would the world be? Oh,

Chris Fenning [00:19:32]:
vastly.

Tim Newman [00:19:33]:
I’m just so glad you brought up the whole idea of framing in your book. That to me is the best chapter because that really outlines our whole conversation. So, you know, when you when you need help, somebody’s not gonna help you if you just come and start demanding things. Right? I need you That’s very true.

Chris Fenning [00:19:49]:
I need you to do

Tim Newman [00:19:49]:
this, I

Chris Fenning [00:19:50]:
need you

Tim Newman [00:19:50]:
to do this, and I need you to do it in the next 10 minutes. You’re gonna say, woah, woah, woah. Hold on.

Chris Fenning [00:19:57]:
Yeah. Are we are we you to manage my schedule? Take a step back, please.

Tim Newman [00:20:00]:
Exactly. So identifying or framing it and identifying how it’s important to the other person and giving them an opportunity to think about and say, okay, I understand that this is what you need. Can we do it this way? Or can I get it to you at in at this time frame? So then there’s an actual conversation about it as opposed to automatically butting heads because it’s we made it about us and come in and start demanding things.

Chris Fenning [00:20:29]:
Yes. Yeah. When it when it’s about us, other people are a lot less likely to help.

Tim Newman [00:20:34]:
Exactly. Do you or have you ever had anxiety in terms of public speaking?

Chris Fenning [00:20:39]:
Oh, gosh. Yes. Oh, people think that I because this is my job and I I communicate publicly a lot, I often get the comment, oh, you this is so easy for you. You teach public speaking. You must always admit you were born with it, and that is just not true. Now people who’ve known me for my whole life know that I I talk a lot. And hard, though, it may be to believe I used to talk a lot more than I do now, but that was in conversation, 1 to 1 or 1 to just a few. Actual doing things in real public terrified me.

Chris Fenning [00:21:19]:
And I have I have an early memory of this. I can give an example from when I was about 6, and I can give an example from about 6 months ago. So quite a big time difference between the 2. So when I was 6, at school, there was a school play, and there were lots of small skits, and all the kids were doing something. And my role was to be the strong man, and I had a leopard print outset, like the the the cartoon style strong man. And there was a broom handle with 2 balloons painted black on the end that was meant to be this big barbell. I was meant to walk out into the room and then try and lift it, but fail because it was too heavy, and then try and lift it again and fail, psych myself up, and then eventually succeed. And somebody would walk on after me and just pick the thing up, sling it over their shoulders, roll their eyes, and walk off.

Chris Fenning [00:22:11]:
That was what was meant to happen. What actually happened was I crept onto the stage and I crouched down and I stayed there, and I froze, completely froze. And I moved this thing eventually a couple of inches up. I didn’t look anywhere. I didn’t do any of the skip, and eventually, I just managed to stand up holding this thing and sort of dropped it and then ran off scared. So the person after me did a great job apparently, came on and did the eye roll and did everything else. So

Tim Newman [00:22:43]:
It was a it was a real eye roll.

Chris Fenning [00:22:45]:
Oh, it was it really was. So at an early age, and that’s not unusual, kids are sometimes scared of things, I was scared of performing in public. Now fast forward 40 year well, 35 years from there. I now teach communication skills. I get up on stage. I’ve talked in front of 100 and thousands of people. But I started to record videos. Now I’m quite happy being on video with you live now, and I’m quite happy having this recorded and going out into the world.

Chris Fenning [00:23:18]:
But I started to record videos for courses, and the idea of recording something that would be forever captured terrified. Now say 6 months ago, this is really sort of a year and a half ago, up to 6 months ago, and it it terrified me to the point that a 2 minute video would take me an hour to create. I could get up on stage with 5 minutes’ notice and give a talk to a to a 1,000 people. I’d feel nervous, but I’d be okay. And I had to work out why was I being so scared, why was I having such a strong reaction to creating 2 minute videos. And what I realized was I wasn’t familiar with it. I hadn’t done it a lot, and I was scared of a number of things. Are people going to judge it? It’s there forever.

Chris Fenning [00:24:05]:
The mistaken belief that people would see a mistake and then watch it back and see the mistake again and laugh at me, all of that’s rubbish.

Tim Newman [00:24:13]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:24:13]:
That’s not true at all, because people don’t care. If my stuff were bad, they’d just stop watching and forget about it. Right. I was very, very nervous, very nervous. It would take me an hour to do this 2 minute video. And so I set myself a challenge. Here’s the here’s the cure. And not only do I do this myself when I work with my my own clients, when I help other people generally, there’s something that we can do that overcomes that fear.

Chris Fenning [00:24:41]:
And what I did was I then challenged myself to create 101 minute videos.

Tim Newman [00:24:47]:
Oh, wow. Okay.

Chris Fenning [00:24:48]:
That would force me to create videos. They don’t have to be long. I wasn’t agonizing over long scripts. Creating a 30 minute video would take forever, but creating a 1 minute video felt doable. And if I created a 100 of them, I would go through the process a 100 times. And by the end, I was no longer nervous about video, and I could do things in a single take, and a 1 minute video took 1 minute rather than 1 hour. Right. And it’s that repetition.

Chris Fenning [00:25:18]:
I was scared of video, so I had to do it. I had to work through the process lots and lots of times to get comfortable with it. And that is what any of us needs to do in any communication situation where we’re nervous, find a way to practice in small, easy ways and do a lot of practice.

Tim Newman [00:25:39]:
Well, that’s the key. None of this is easy. I mean, we we can lay out all of these techniques and and and plans and and ideas, but you have to do it and you have to practice it until it becomes until it becomes habit. That’s

Chris Fenning [00:25:56]:
Habit. It’s habit forming. Yeah. None of this stuff is complicated. But it simple ideas, but difficult to build the habits and remember to use it in the moment. Right. You can go on a a course about giving bad feedback or giving feedback in difficult situations, giving negative feedback. And you could spend a whole day doing the most interactive workshop, fantastic activities, really energized.

Chris Fenning [00:26:21]:
You really got a lot from it. But you still still use it, and you have to remember to use it in the moment.

Tim Newman [00:26:27]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:26:28]:
And that is hard, remembering to do it, repeatedly doing it, and building those habits. It’s, it’s such a core part of of any skill building.

Tim Newman [00:26:38]:
Any skill. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. So is is that where where the the whole idea of the book came from?

Chris Fenning [00:26:44]:
For the first minute? For the

Tim Newman [00:26:45]:
first minute. Yep.

Chris Fenning [00:26:47]:
No. No. Although it does it does tie in very nicely because it’s just one just about one minute. Though the idea for the first minute came from, from that that 20 years of experience, I’d been on a number of development programs. I I was on graduate development programs, manager accelerators, and eventually executive path programs within large companies. And all of these programs had communication training. And I kept coming up against the same problem, training that would give advice that sounded good but didn’t have much substance, for example, to be a good communicator, you need to be clear and concise.

Tim Newman [00:27:24]:
Oh, really? Great.

Chris Fenning [00:27:25]:
I think we’ve all been told that.

Tim Newman [00:27:26]:
Yeah. Right? Exactly. Thanks.

Chris Fenning [00:27:28]:
Have you ever been taught how? No. And so I kept asking how. And the answer was always, well, it depends, and it depends on this situation and that. And there was never a really good answer. So I went out to find the answer, and I looked at various different models that existed, and I looked at all the situations that I was communicating in. And because I couldn’t find a good answer, I created one and then wrote the book. Yes. And so that’s where the book came from.

Chris Fenning [00:27:56]:
It was to fill a gap, to fill my own need for an answer to how to be clear and concise. Right. And

Tim Newman [00:28:05]:
it’s genius. But we’ll talk about the email book here in in in a second, but the whole idea of being clear and concise and teaching people how to do it, I think everybody needs to read the book. I I really do.

Chris Fenning [00:28:19]:
I agree.

Tim Newman [00:28:21]:
And I’ve I’ve already sent emails out to everybody in my department. Read the book. You get you get a free workbook. I mean, you you go to your website, you get get the free workbook. Just so happened, you know, talk about meetings. You know, after we talked the other day, I got an email for our retreat or fall retreat, which isn’t really a retreat. It’s just a day of meetings in our Yeah. In a in a building that’s not our normal building.

Chris Fenning [00:28:47]:
And It’s an away day. We’re gonna get nothing done but in some other place.

Tim Newman [00:28:54]:
Exactly. Exactly. So, and I looked at it. I just I’m already dreading it, already shaking my head. And so I I said, everybody in the department here, you know, read this book. And maybe we’ll we’ll spend some time talking about it. I don’t know. But the the whole idea of of being clear and concise is genius and and that really kind of and I go and again, I’m gonna jump forward to the second chapter, the whole idea of framing.

Tim Newman [00:29:16]:
That that to me is is encapsulates everything. If we could just start a new conversation with with with the with the framing sentence, or framing 2 or 3 sentences, I think we would be so much more productive and so much happier.

Chris Fenning [00:29:32]:
I completely agree with you. So let’s let’s take a couple of minutes and explain it for for our listeners here. And framing is how we start a conversation. So we’re talking about work conversations here. You can use it socially, but it was designed for work in sort of workplace transactional communication. And the reason that we frame in the first 10 to 15 seconds is because when we start talking to somebody else, they are going to have 3 questions that come into their mind. One is, What are you talking about? 2, Why are you talking to me about this? Why are you telling me? And 3, What is your point? And it’s not just me saying this isn’t the world according to Chris. There’s a bunch of science behind it, and I explain a little bit of it in the book, although I try to keep the science out of the way of the practical advice.

Chris Fenning [00:30:29]:
But we have those questions: What are you talking about? Why are you telling me? And what is your point? And if we don’t provide answers to those questions at the very beginning of the conversation, the other person’s brain is just going to be focused on those questions. If they don’t have the answers, they’re literally not concentrating on our message. So framing delivers those things. The framework is called Context, Intent, and Key Message. And it’s very, very simple to do. You start with context. You say, What is the topic that I want to talk about? Hey, Tim, I’d like to talk to you about next week’s Away Day. 2nd up is intent.

Chris Fenning [00:31:14]:
What do I want? Like, why am I telling you this? What do I want from you? So, hey, Tim, I wanna talk to you about next week’s away day. I’d like your help with the agenda. That’s my intent. I’m I want your help. And the third part is the key message. This is the most important thing I need you to need you to know. So, hey, Tim. I need to talk to you I’d like to talk to you about next week’s away day.

Chris Fenning [00:31:33]:
I’d like your help with the agenda. I’ve had 2 people drop out and need to fill the afternoon slot. That tells you everything you need to know about the conversation we’re going to have. Yes. You’ve got questions. Yes. There’s a bunch more information that I’m going to deliver. We’re going to have a conversation.

Chris Fenning [00:31:52]:
But you know what I’m gonna talk about, why I’m telling you, and what the point is. Right. So you’re ready and focused and not thinking about other things. You know what we’re gonna talk about, and we can then have that conversation. Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:32:07]:
And we will be talking about the book. But my section would be, you know, the first minute book. That’s what we’re gonna that’s that’s what we would I I would convince him that that’s what my session would be about. First minute.

Chris Fenning [00:32:19]:
How to get the first minute right?

Tim Newman [00:32:20]:
Exactly. So so how can framing really be used? You know, take it from our audience’s perspective. You know, most of our our young professionals, again, they struggle with basic communication skills. How can they use that, let’s say, from a job interview perspective? What would be an example?

Chris Fenning [00:32:39]:
Oh, yes. Yeah. It’s nice in in the job interview. And the we’ll talk a little bit about the second framework as well, the structured summary, because that’s very, very good for answering open ended interview questions. But, in in an interview, there’s going to be questions like, tell me about a time when or give me an example of and those are open questions. So give me an example of a difficult conversation that you had, or tell me about a time when you succeeded in a in a project or a task. And you have to answer a question that takes a huge amount of information and background and compress it into something without spending 30 minutes giving background. Right.

Chris Fenning [00:33:21]:
It has to be able to get the point quickly as well. And so starting an answer to oh, tell me about a time when you’ve, when you succeeded in a project. You’d say, well, I’d like to tell you about my university group project. That’s the context. The intent would be, I wanna share a particular incident that was successful. And then the key message would be, we we got in on schedule despite 3 members of our team being out sick. Now I’ve told a whole story there, what I’m trying to achieve, why I want to focus on a particular point, and then the highlight, which is we we succeeded on a tough deadline even though 3 people were out sick. Ten seconds took me to say that.

Chris Fenning [00:34:07]:
Now I can expand my answer, but I’ve primed the interviewer to understand what’s coming next. I’ve also shown that I understand the question because I’ve repeated parts of it back to them. So it helps with them make sure that my answer is is sort of organized. It shows I can organize and summarize, and then sort of gives that headline so I can then go on and expand the story.

Tim Newman [00:34:33]:
And hopefully, they’ve sat up in their chair and and leaned into what you’re gonna say because, again, like you said, you you’ve done things that most people wouldn’t wouldn’t do at all.

Chris Fenning [00:34:46]:
Exactly. And here’s where you can get them from sitting up to being really impressed. Once you’ve given that 10 second introduction, you can summarize your entire story in 3 bullet points, literally 3 bullet points, if you use a method called a structured summary, which is goal problem solution, or GPS. And just like the satellite navigation system that gives you direction and tells you how to get to your end destination, Goal, Problem, Solution does the same with the added bonus of involving a storytelling structure, which everybody loves because we’re social creatures and storytelling is important. So in the interview, example, tell me about a time when you succeeded, and I framed it with that that statement of, we delivered against a deadline when 3 people were out sick. Then I can expand my story using Goal Problem Solution. I start with the goal. What we wanted to do, what we needed to do, was our group project needed to submit the final thesis, dissertation, whichever country you’re in, who uses a different language.

Chris Fenning [00:35:54]:
We submit our final dissertation thesis by the end of May. That’s the goal. The interviewer then knows what you were trying to achieve, big tangible outcome that you want to want to achieve. So our goal was to submit our thesis by the end of May. The problem was 3 of our team went out sick really badly. There was a broken leg. Someone got meningitis, and somebody else was just out long term sick. We lost half of our project team.

Chris Fenning [00:36:25]:
In that example, I actually included too much information. What I should have said I have to correct myself now. Our goal was to submit the thesis by, the end of May. The problem was 3 of our team went out long term sick halfway through the project. Our project team was cut in half. So what did we do about it? Well, our solution was the team talked to the professor to see if we could get more time. We redivided the work from the rest, from those people out sick and took it on ourselves, divided those roles within the team, and we put in extra hours to make sure we completed that dissertation and submitted it in time. So told a complete story.

Chris Fenning [00:37:06]:
We wanted to submit our thesis by this date. There was a problem. Here’s how we solved it. And by leading through the story in that organized way, the interviewer will get a complete picture But without all that extra detail of, well, what was the thesis about, and why was that date an important date submitted by, and who was the professor’s name, and did we go and see him or send an email or the phone? Most of that’s irrelevant.

Tim Newman [00:37:31]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:37:32]:
And if they do wanna know about it, they’ll ask.

Tim Newman [00:37:34]:
Right. And, yeah, we we get those they get get those all the time. And one that day I was thrown, and we we stopped and got a coffee on the way. Well, great. You didn’t you didn’t bring me a coffee. So

Chris Fenning [00:37:48]:
Yeah. That’s definitely not needed info.

Tim Newman [00:37:50]:
You don’t need all that stuff. Right.

Chris Fenning [00:37:52]:
Background info. It’s human nature to include it, and we do it for two reasons. We when we’re talking to someone, we think they need to know everything we know to be able to understand the situation, which sort of makes sense because, well, the situation is all the stuff that we’ve experienced. But actually that’s not true. And the second reason we do it is we just, well, we feel the need to share, and we can’t stop ourselves. We we just can’t. We we have to put in all of this extra detail. You you couldn’t possibly make a decision without knowing this stuff.

Tim Newman [00:38:29]:
Right. Exactly. It it was decaf, by the way.

Chris Fenning [00:38:35]:
Well, the one you didn’t get

Tim Newman [00:38:36]:
was decaf. Exactly. Yeah. But the the whole idea that we we feel that we need to share it and and I’m just asking this question just thinking about what you just said. Is it to make the story more important? Is it to why is that? Why why do we add those extra things that, yeah, we need to want to share and need to share? But is is there a subconscious reason? Again, is it Well, sometimes. Okay.

Chris Fenning [00:39:02]:
Yeah. Sometimes. So the primary reason is we’re not taught how to be concise.

Tim Newman [00:39:06]:
Okay.

Chris Fenning [00:39:06]:
There are no clear or concise lessons at school or university. So we’re not taught how to do it, so it’s not surprising that that we don’t do it very well. But that aside, you know, are there psychological reasons? Yes. There definitely are. And it there isn’t one answer for every situation. There are some situations where people want to cover their ass. Right. Oh, the reason I didn’t submit on time is excuse, excuse, excuse, reason.

Chris Fenning [00:39:31]:
Let me give you all the backstory, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And that is, I really want to demonstrate with this weight of evidence why I’m not at fault. Right. And you, I already know I’m not at fault. You might not care who’s at fault. You just wanna get on with the thing. Right. But I’m nervous about being at fault, so I’m going to load up all this information because I think it shields me.

Chris Fenning [00:39:53]:
Another reason is the belief that somebody couldn’t possibly make an informed decision unless they were informed of everything that was going on. And here’s an example of why that’s total tosh. Just not true. I’d rather rub it. If I was one of your students, Tim, and what I want to do is I want to miss next Thursday’s lesson. So that’s why I’m coming to talk to you. Now I’ve I’ve spoiled it a bit by telling you that’s the point. What I could do is say, oh, Tim, so my, my dad is out of town this week.

Chris Fenning [00:40:30]:
He’s had to go and help his sister because she fell down and she broke her arm. Now normally, she comes in to look after the dog while he goes away for work, but, but she can’t, obviously, because she she broke her arm. Now she’s doing okay. It’s not bad. He has to go and help her out and get the home set up and so on. And so what that means is I’ve gotta go and look after my dad’s dogs next week so he can go and help my aunt and so on. So can I have next Thursday off? Can I miss the lecture? And you don’t care about well, maybe you do, but you don’t need all of that information. What you need is, hi.

Chris Fenning [00:41:02]:
I have a family situation. Can I miss next Thursday’s lecture? There’s a reason the lady to be away. Do you wanna know more?

Tim Newman [00:41:10]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:41:11]:
So you might go, oh, yeah. That’s fine. Next Thursday is not an important one anyway. Or you may have questions for me, but you I I haven’t gone through the whole thing about broken arms and dogs and who’s coming into town. Right. Forget all that. The point is, can I miss next Thursday’s election? Get that out as quickly as possible.

Tim Newman [00:41:29]:
Yeah. Because you start talking about everything else. I forget I’ve already forgotten why you’re why we’re even having the conversation. What where do you wanna miss again?

Chris Fenning [00:41:37]:
Exactly. And I gave you that at the beginning. Right. And most of the time, we don’t even get that at the start. You’d have just been wondering, where is

Tim Newman [00:41:45]:
this going? Exactly. Yep. All the time.

Chris Fenning [00:41:48]:
So we do that because we think the other person needs the information.

Tim Newman [00:41:52]:
Right. Okay.

Chris Fenning [00:41:53]:
So those those are the 3 main causes. The first, we’re not taught how to do it. The second, we’re covering our ass. Oh, I wanna shield myself in case I’ve done something wrong. Or, and the third is, is we we believe you need all the information, to be able to to, to make that decision

Tim Newman [00:42:12]:
or to

Chris Fenning [00:42:12]:
to be able to make it. And there is a 4th one, which is I need to demonstrate my value.

Tim Newman [00:42:18]:
Okay.

Chris Fenning [00:42:19]:
Mhmm. And if you’re at work and your your boss asked for a status update, you could say, yep. Everything’s on track. Don’t need anything from you. Do you have any questions? That’s sort of the ultimate status update right there. Super succinct, and very easy to deliver. But human nature kicks in and goes, oh, well, here’s everything I’ve done this week in minute detail, I am valuable. I am working.

Chris Fenning [00:42:47]:
I promise I’m doing stuff. And there’s that need to validate our existence

Tim Newman [00:42:54]:
Yeah.

Chris Fenning [00:42:54]:
By demonstrating we are producing value, which, unfortunately, takes a whole ton ton of time that doesn’t deliver any value at all.

Tim Newman [00:43:03]:
At all. Right.

Chris Fenning [00:43:04]:
And does the opposite, makes us seem less capable than we are.

Tim Newman [00:43:09]:
It seems that, you know, when when we’re talking to, let’s just say, our boss, our manager, the CEO, what what have you, it seems that we fall into that, that we need to just word vomit about how how everything that we’ve done has is great, and I don’t think they really care.

Chris Fenning [00:43:28]:
They absolutely don’t unless they ask

Tim Newman [00:43:31]:
Right.

Chris Fenning [00:43:32]:
Questions that that are specifically around that. So so I’m not I’m not sure what you’ve been doing, Tim. So tell me. Like, give me a rundown of what you’ve done in this last week. Then you can give a rundown of what you’ve done in the last week, but still keep it brief and and try and make it relevant to them. But if they say, hey, tell me about like, they’re we get asked terrible questions as well, which doesn’t help. So, hey. What what’s going on at the moment? Well, that’s a really broad question.

Chris Fenning [00:43:57]:
I spoke with Wish

Tim Newman [00:43:58]:
I started. With a

Chris Fenning [00:43:59]:
small ants nest. Uh-huh. Yeah. Exactly. Is the ants nest outside? I see some birds going. It’s raining. It’s 3 o’clock. Like, what do you need to know? But most of the bad questions aside, when we get asked, so what’s the status of the project or what’s happening on the project, people aren’t looking for, tell me all the work that you’ve done.

Chris Fenning [00:44:17]:
What they’re really looking for is, tell me if we’re on track or if you need anything Right. Or is the building on fire? Right. Right. Those are the things that they care about because that’s what we care about when we ask those questions.

Tim Newman [00:44:30]:
Through all of this, we can’t we can’t forget about the whole idea of listening.

Chris Fenning [00:44:35]:
Sorry. Say that again?

Tim Newman [00:44:36]:
We can’t forget the whole idea of actually listening.

Chris Fenning [00:44:39]:
Well, we can’t Sorry. Turbo jerk. No. I got it.

Tim Newman [00:44:43]:
I got it. But and so you laugh, but when my wife says say that again, you know what I say? That again.

Chris Fenning [00:44:56]:
Oh, I I I love that. I’m going to use that. I I have a I I collect dad’s jokes, and I think brilliant. I like that.

Tim Newman [00:45:04]:
So she doesn’t like it. I’ll

Chris Fenning [00:45:10]:
let you know how that goes on my end.

Tim Newman [00:45:12]:
I gotta see all I know. So you you you just It’s

Chris Fenning [00:45:16]:
basically eye roll.

Tim Newman [00:45:18]:
Yeah. But if we if we don’t actually you know, if we ask a question and we don’t actually listen to the response, then why are we asking the question?

Chris Fenning [00:45:29]:
Oh, yes. There’s a game you can play for this. So no go please go ahead.

Tim Newman [00:45:34]:
Go on. I just think it’s important for everybody to understand that a lot of times when we talk about communication, we talk about us talking Or and we’re I want I’m gonna get to the writing here in a second. But we talk about it as talking and what we what we’re gonna say and we wanna say and how we’re gonna say it so that people can hear it and listen it and get the value from it. But we very rarely talk about the listening piece.

Chris Fenning [00:45:59]:
Yes. Yep. It’s it gets talked about a little bit under active listening, but I I have a bit of a problem with active listening. And who was it who talked about this in her it was a TED Talk, and, Celeste Headley gave a TED Talk with 10 tips for better conversations. And she talks about listening and active listening in particular. And she says, like, one of the core components of active listening is showing the other person that you’re paying attention and listening. And she said the problem with that is if you’re actually listening to someone, you don’t have to show that you’re doing it because you’re you will naturally be listening, and you’ll be giving all of the signs and indications.

Tim Newman [00:46:46]:
That’s fine.

Chris Fenning [00:46:46]:
And she’s totally right. Uh-huh. So active listening is one of the things that that we get poor for how, how to listen. But there’s there’s a game that we could play to show just how badly other people listen to the answers to their own questions. If you’re in a a team meeting, listen when someone asks a question, and then evaluate, first, whether the answer answers the question, and then did the original person notice that the question wasn’t answered?

Tim Newman [00:47:23]:
No. No. They don’t.

Chris Fenning [00:47:26]:
And it it’s rare. It’s really rare. It is. Say, oh, so can what happened in this incident on the project? Oh, well, 3 weeks ago, we had this thing, long, rambling explanation that never actually explains what happened last weekend. Oh, okay. Thanks. I think I’ve got it. Great.

Chris Fenning [00:47:42]:
We’ll move on. Never answered to the original question. And that’s bad listening on both part. Didn’t listen to the question, didn’t answer the question, didn’t listen to the answer, and then moved on. I mean, just a great failure in communication there.

Tim Newman [00:48:00]:
And then there’ll be an email. Can you re remind me about what happened on this?

Chris Fenning [00:48:05]:
Yes. Yeah. But the email is sent to everybody. Yeah, we we do not listen well. There there’s a line that comes up often, in movies. It’s often quoted, which is, listen with the intention of understanding. Don’t listen just to wait for your turn to speak.

Tim Newman [00:48:25]:
The majority of the time, that’s what we do, is we we’re listening until it’s our turn to talk, and then we’re gonna say whatever it is that we feel like saying.

Chris Fenning [00:48:34]:
Yep. Yes. There’s a technique we can use to help us build the habit, back to habits again, to build the habit to listen better. And when you’ve asked a question and somebody is speaking to you or whether someone’s just talking to you first without answering a question, Play the game, get into the habit of forming a question about what they’re saying before you make your comment. Because you if you’re going to ask about what someone is telling you, you have to pay attention to it to be able to ask a reasonable question. They don’t actually have to say the question at this point. So let’s say you were talking to me about an event coming up in a couple of weeks. Instead of me going, oh, yeah.

Chris Fenning [00:49:18]:
What I wanna do is tell you about my thoughts on that event. What I should be thinking is, What question can I ask you about the information you’re giving me? And then I have to pay attention to the information you’re giving me so I can think about questions. What do I want to know more on? What didn’t make sense? And then if you said something that didn’t quite make sense to me, I I’m already prepared to ask.

Tim Newman [00:49:40]:
Right. Exactly.

Chris Fenning [00:49:40]:
I haven’t moved on to my topic. Say that again. That again?

Tim Newman [00:49:47]:
There you go. Nailed it. That’s that’s good, though. That’s a that’s a let’s put this way. That’s gonna go in an email to to a special colleague that we’re gonna play at our retreat and see how we do. But I I do wanna talk about the the email book. Effective Emails, A Secret Straightforward Communication Work. And I I think I told you, I love systems.

Tim Newman [00:50:15]:
Simple systems, especially when you’re teaching a skill, and you nailed it again with the emails and and the whole GPS. The the GPS piece goes to me, it goes more perfectly with with writing. To me, it’s easier to to implement with writing than it is from the speaking. That just means

Chris Fenning [00:50:36]:
Yes. It is.

Tim Newman [00:50:37]:
But we’re gonna both these books are now gonna be required reading, you know, for for people around me from from here on out.

Chris Fenning [00:50:44]:
That’s like it’s it’s good though they’re useful.

Tim Newman [00:50:47]:
They they are. Whether whether they buy and read it or not, I’m I’m gonna be, you know, saying this is how we’re gonna start doing things. When we talk about communication with especially with with the younger pop population, college students, young professionals, they struggle so much with communication in general, whether it’s verbal, nonverbal, and written. And I I I really like the whole idea of the GPS system for writing emails. Because again, we don’t have to have, you know, 3 and 4 paragraph emails that that I I get lost after the 4¢. Just

Chris Fenning [00:51:20]:
Oh, you and 99% of the world. Yeah. We we don’t read big chunks of text. We don’t. So having a framework for it is, one of the reasons I did the the framework was the engineer in me was crying out for a formula. I love a formula. When when I was a kid at school, one of the, one of the playground teasing taunts from the the group that I was with was Fennings got the formula because I always had a formula for something. Probably always had the answer, whether it was right or wrong, always believed I had the answer.

Chris Fenning [00:51:52]:
And, and that that jest turned out to be truer than everybody realized because now I spend my time trying to come up with the formula for clear communication in different situations. And effective emails is it’s just that. It is a formula and a framework to fill in the blanks to make emails short and clear, quicker to write, and more likely proven, not just because I think it’s a good idea, but actually proven with with studies and and stats, that you get better responses

Tim Newman [00:52:24]:
Yeah. If

Chris Fenning [00:52:24]:
you write a better email. And structuring it is really important because it meets all of the psychological needs of the recipient. What is this for? What is the purpose? What do you want me to do with it? How urgent is it? What do you need from me? Are you asking me a question or giving me an instruction? All of those questions can be clearly answered, and the information can be provided in a few lines Right. In an email. And 3 to 4 sentences tops. 3 to 4 sentences. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Fenning [00:53:00]:
Do you wanna geek out on this for a minute? I I there’s a bit of science that I I find fascinating, and it’s how we read large bodies of text. And there’s something hopefully, I’m gonna do something on the screen for anyone watching. But imagine an f. I’ll see if I can create an s here. Hopefully, that’s the right way around on Yeah. That’s fine. The screen that we can hear it. This is how we scan text.

Chris Fenning [00:53:22]:
If you have a page of text in front of you, whether it’s a web page, a newspaper article, a page in a book, unless you’re reading a novel, it doesn’t count because you’ll read every word. If I present you with a page of text, we start in the top left hand corner and we read across the first line, and then we scan down the edge of the page. And at various points on the page, we’ll just scan across the line occasionally. And by using eye tracking software, created, a number of studies created, a heat map of where we focus our attention on a page, and it creates the f shape Really? Because nobody reads every word on the page. We scan a page, scale the first line, scan down to look for line breaks, to look for headings, to look for, labels, question, action, decision. And then we scan across the page at that point to see if it’s something relevant. So if we send an e mail but it’s a big chunk of text, no one reads the whole thing. They do a quick scan, and then they move on to the next email that’s shorter because it takes less brainpower to process a shorter email.

Chris Fenning [00:54:33]:
And our brains’ evolutionary Mhmm. Evolution has developed us to be lazy Yeah. Or efficient. I think efficient isn’t it?

Tim Newman [00:54:40]:
We’ll go with efficient. We’ll go with efficient.

Chris Fenning [00:54:42]:
Yeah. What’s wrong with efficient? Lazy. And so we efficiently say, oh, this is too much effort. I’ll move on to something easier so I can be more productive. So that f shape is how we read big blocks of text, and it’s one of the reasons that we quickly our brains will subconsciously say, too much effort. Move on. And those big emails don’t get read.

Tim Newman [00:55:05]:
That’s so interesting about the the heat map and the and the f. It makes it makes a ton of sense. I mean, when you when you look at you know, just take newspapers as a for example, not only do they not exist, but if if we’re reading something when you when USA Today became what USA Today is, it was color. The articles were shorter because, again, our attention span got smaller and people weren’t reading full articles. Now if you look at how we read news, 90% of the time, we’re reading it on our phones. And the articles are news articles are 4 to 4 paragraphs, 3 to 4 paragraphs at most. And so Yep. We’re we’re we’re barely getting even the the full context of whatever it is that we’re reading about, and we’re even reading less if especially if we’re looking at it from that that whole heat map piece.

Tim Newman [00:56:01]:
Yep. That’s that’s

Chris Fenning [00:56:03]:
Even scrolling through really quickly to find a header or a call out in

Tim Newman [00:56:06]:
English. Wow.

Chris Fenning [00:56:08]:
Yeah. So if someone’s writing an email, here’s a couple of tips for how to make them shorter and clearer, a couple of very practical tips. First of all, write an informative subject line that has the topic and the purpose. I’m writing to you about next Thursday’s lecture. I have a question. Or you could say, I have a question about next Thursday’s lecture, question about next Thursday’s lecture. Very clear you know that that person has a question about that thing even before you’ve opened the email. So focus on the subject line topic plus purpose.

Chris Fenning [00:56:46]:
And then second tip, when you’re in your message, repeat the topic and the purpose. Here’s what I here’s why I’m writing to you. Here’s why I’m telling you this, or I have a question about x. And then if you have a question, put it on its own line and start the line with the word question. Label it. Put it on its own line with white space above and below, not in a paragraph, not sandwiched between other things. Line break. The word question has a label that asks your question, then leave another line break.

Chris Fenning [00:57:23]:
People will see it. And if they see the word question, they’re psychologically primed to give an answer. And that means you’re more likely to get a response.

Tim Newman [00:57:32]:
Yeah. Hopefully, an accurate response, but

Chris Fenning [00:57:35]:
hopefully You at least you’ve prepped them because there is a question for them to to answer. Exactly. What the quality of the response, sometimes will depend on

Tim Newman [00:57:44]:
We’ll work on that later.

Chris Fenning [00:57:46]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:57:47]:
The one thing I I do wanna bring up with the book as well and again, it goes to me now, it goes back to the whole, you know, that we scan things. But I read a book generally for for fun. I pick it up and I say, oh, this looks like a good chapter. I mean, I start from the beginning and go to the end. I read a book a couple weeks ago that a friend wrote. He he’s a he’s a golf a former PGA pro, and he was writing about his his experiences. And he said, when you when you read it, you need to read it from beginning to end. That’s great.

Tim Newman [00:58:17]:
And I did that, and I called him back. I said, you know, thank you so much for telling me that because I would have missed a bunch of things. It in the email in your effective emails book, you actually say, if you’re a novice, please read from beginning to end. If you’re if you’re a pro at it, you can pick and choose. If I were you, I’d take out that if you’re a pro at it, pick and choose. Still read read from beginning to end. Well well, yeah. Because it’s it’s so important.

Tim Newman [00:58:43]:
Emails our our written communication is so important. And so I thank you for that.

Chris Fenning [00:58:49]:
Yeah. Well, I I appreciate the appreciation.

Tim Newman [00:58:54]:
Well, Christian, again, thanks so much for for joining us today. Lots of of useful information. Where can people find you, and where can they buy your books?

Chris Fenning [00:59:02]:
Yeah. They can find me. My social hangout is LinkedIn, and, of course, my my website is a great place to contact me, which is chrisfenning.com. You mentioned already there’s a free workbook as a as a download. It’s a great introduction and practical guide to communicating clearly at work. And where you can buy my books is really anywhere that you like to buy books. They’re available on order through all online stores, Amazon being the main one, but really wherever you like to buy your book.

Tim Newman [00:59:30]:
And I’ll put the links in the show notes for for everybody. But but again, Chris, thank you so much for joining us. Again, lots of great information. Take care, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Chris Fenning [00:59:38]:
Thank you very much, Tim. It’s been a real pleasure.

Tim Newman [00:59:40]:
Alright. Let’s take a few minutes to reflect on our conversation with Chris Fanning. After 20 years of working in 6 different industries and reflecting on experiences in over 30 countries, he put his analytical mind towards solving issues in communication. We talked about the commonality of people all over the world and how various cultures view certain behaviors and patterns of communication. Chris encouraged everyone to pay attention to the people around you, whether that’s upstream or downstream. And keep in mind, when we communicate, it’s not about me, it’s not about us, it’s about the people that we’re speaking to. He talks about framing communications or adapting your messages to fit the perspective of the other person. If you clearly state what you want from someone, why you want it from that person, and why or how it’s relevant to that person, then you will be more successful in getting things done.

Tim Newman [01:00:30]:
Chris gave some great examples and walked us through how to use framing in our conversations and how to adapt the idea into written communications such as emails. In terms of speaking in public and speaking with confidence, Chris shared his personal fears, anxieties, and nervousness associated with making videos. His concerns as to whether people would judge him and what would happen if he made a mistake sounded exactly what I hear from my clients all the time. In my opinion, his solution to create a challenge of making 101 minute videos was pure genius. I loved his explanation that the challenge forced him to practice and get comfortable with the process. I recommend this strategy and would also suggest checking out chrisfennning.com to take advantage of his resources and free downloadable workbook. On behalf of the speaking with confidence community, we all wanna thank him for helping others to become more confident speakers. Please make sure you visit speaking with confidence course.com and join our growing community.

Tim Newman [01:01:24]:
Sign up for special updates regarding the August 15th launch of the Formula For Public Speaking course. Also, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any episodes. Please write us a review and tell everyone why you love the podcast. You can also download, like, and share the podcast with friends. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time. Take care.