Embracing Cultural Diversity for Powerful Public Speaking with Rebecca Williams

Tim Newman [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence Podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach and I’m thrilled to guide you on the journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today’s guest is Rebecca Williams. Rebecca is a public speaking, storytelling and presentation expert who helps mission driven organizations and purpose driven overachievers change the world through effective communication. She has served as a public speaking coach at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and has trained professionals and teams at organizations worldwide including Google Meta and Netflix. Rebecca is passionate about empowering dynamic professional women to develop bold and confident self expression so they can step into authentic feminine leadership. Rebecca, welcome to the show.

Tim Newman [00:01:04]:
I’m really excited about our conversation today.

Rebecca Williams [00:01:07]:
Hi Tim, thank you for having me. I’m excited too.

Tim Newman [00:01:10]:
Oh, this is going to be fun. And let’s just go ahead and set the stage, you know, right from the get go. And I’m not using stage as a, as a pun. You have that background in theater and all those things. I didn’t do that on purpose, but that’s it. You were born in Wisconsin, but you spent a good portion of your life abroad in many different countries, which I think is awesome and I think it’s great. And I don’t think we as Americans do enough of that. What we can gain from that is a different conversation for a different day.

Tim Newman [00:01:42]:
But how has that shaped and challenged you in terms of being a communicator and how you coach different people?

Rebecca Williams [00:01:51]:
Yeah, this is such an interesting question. I was actually just writing about this this morning. So yeah, speaking to what you said, I was born in Wisconsin, but my family and I quickly, we moved to Germany when I was, I think around 1 years old and my dad was an opera director so we would move around quite a bit. So spent time in Germany and then when I became an adult, lived in Japan for four years, Australia for two years. I’ve lived in Nepal, Spain, I now live in Portugal and, and I spent a lot of time in Mexico as well. And so I’ve had, I’ve had a lot of different experiences and a lot of different cultures and with a lot of different languages and meeting a lot of different kinds of people. And really these experiences have influenced my coaching and my communication training career in I would say two main ways. One is that they help me stay humble in the trade of helping other people communicate.

Rebecca Williams [00:03:02]:
So of course English these days is the lingua Franca. It’s what business is done in. It used to be French, now it’s English. And I think many people forget that, and especially Americans forget that there are a lot of other languages spoken around the world. And a lot of, A lot, A lot of people, you know, billions and billions of people are speaking two languages, three languages, sometimes four languages because they need to participate in the world and in the economy. So I think it’s dangerous to think that everybody is on the same playing field. As a native speaker and having had this experience of living abroad and working abroad has really kept me humble, which has also put me in a really deep place of service to my customers, my clients, because I understand I’ve had to, um, I, I learned Japanese when I was in Japan. I, I gave speeches in Japanese when I was in Japan.

Rebecca Williams [00:04:10]:
That was really hard. And so those experiences remind me that, hey, what my clients are doing when they’re not speaking their native language is even harder. And so it, it helps me be more empathetic and it helps me give them strategies to, to navigate the, the difficulties of not only speaking with confidence, but like just language and, and how to express yourself so your audience will get it. So that’s the one thing. And then the second thing, really, I believe is it’s helped me have a broader understanding of how to communicate with people. So not just empathy for other people communicating, but how to address an audience. So, for example, I’m teaching a workshop in London in July, and. And I’m thinking a lot about my way of being as an American.

Rebecca Williams [00:05:07]:
And how is what I’m saying going to land with native English speakers, but still native English speakers who are not Americans? And that’s. It’s really important. It is also a kind of empathy, but it’s just an awareness that’s important to have when you’re addressing any audience.

Tim Newman [00:05:28]:
Yeah, that’s such a good point. You know, the whole idea of, again, just say you’re going to London speaking in English to a group of people that speak English, it’s obviously, it’s different, but the culture is different. And understanding that really as. And I guess I look at it as. Even though you have such, such a wide breadth of international experience, you’re still a guest in that country. And it’s important to make sure that we do our best to show that we’re a guest and try to assimilate and use their terms, use their language, use their mannerisms so that they feel that we actually care about who they are and their culture to with begin With. Let’s just put it that way.

Rebecca Williams [00:06:24]:
Yeah, yeah. And I love what you say about, like, it’s almost metaphorical. Right. You’re a guest in their country.

Tim Newman [00:06:30]:
Right.

Rebecca Williams [00:06:31]:
And when you think about if you’re speaking from a stage, if you’re giving a presentation, sure, you are the star. I’m doing air quotes for people who can’t see me. You’re the star of your presentation or of your talk or whatever, but you’re a guest star in the country. That is the audience. Right. So you have to know your audience. You have to know what is acceptable and what’s not acceptable. Because if you break certain rules, it’s going to be tough for your credibility on that stage.

Tim Newman [00:07:04]:
Yes.

Rebecca Williams [00:07:05]:
And I’m not saying, like, for example, I’m not going to go to London and try to speak in a British accent. You know, that would be absurd. And my British accent is terrible, by the way. But I. I do know some phrases that I wouldn’t say there that I might say in the States, for example. So it’s. It’s just having that awareness and being able to work with that in your repertoire of how you communicate.

Tim Newman [00:07:33]:
Yeah. And, you know, I think about it again, the cultures are very similar. United Kingdom and United States, obviously different, but a lot of similarities. But let’s just say you go to the Far east, you’ve been to Japan, I’ve been to Thailand, I’ve been to Malaysia. And those. The cultures there and mannerisms and language there, and things are so. Are so different. And it doesn’t take much from that perspective to get off track and inadvertently offend people with.

Tim Newman [00:08:11]:
With terms or even mannerisms. So, such as. First thing I did when I went to Thailand the very first time is I suck my hand out to shake hands and. No, that’s. No, we don’t. We’re not doing that. And so it’s those other things that you have to actually learn that help you become good communicators. Because if they trust you, then you’re going to have a much better time having good open dialogue where you guys understand each other.

Rebecca Williams [00:08:42]:
Yeah, yeah. I remember being in Japan and I wanted to do an English language teacher training outside of Japan for a month. It was like this intensive training because that’s what I was doing there. I was teaching English as a second language, and I wanted to do it better. And I also wanted my board of education to not only let me take the holiday, but I also wanted them to pay for the training because it was. It was, you know, job training. Essentially, and I thought, well, I’ll give it a try. And so I, I talked to my supervisor and this was all in Japanese, so I really had to practice and prepare for this conversation.

Rebecca Williams [00:09:25]:
And, and she, she wasn’t saying no. She wasn’t saying no to my request. And so I kept kind of drilling in and drilling in until I could get her to a yes. And she, she eventually, I understand now that she capitulated because I wasn’t getting the signals that her response was actually a no, because they don’t, they don’t actually say no in Japan. Like, you barely almost never hear that word. And so you just have to pick up on the cues. Like, oh, I get it. Like, their body language is this way and they’re not saying yes.

Tim Newman [00:10:06]:
Right.

Rebecca Williams [00:10:07]:
But yeah, she, she told me much later, like many years later, after we got to know each other better, she was like, wow, you were, you were like a freight train. Like, I couldn’t, I couldn’t say no to you. Like, it was impossible. So I, I, I ended up getting that training paid for and it was great. But more than anything, it’s just such a lesson in cross cultural communication.

Tim Newman [00:10:29]:
That’s awesome. That, that, that’s a good story. And, and, and a good point. You know, that people understand. It’s, you have to be able to pick up on those things, but again, you have to know, to know and learn some things going into it, and some of those, you, it’s almost impossible to learn until you, until you get there and you’re, you’re immersed in it, you know?

Rebecca Williams [00:10:50]:
Yeah, yeah. And that’s the fun part, right? Because learning, learning as you go, that, I mean, it’s, that’s, I believe, the best way to learn.

Tim Newman [00:10:59]:
Exactly, exactly. So what’s your, what’s your biggest public, public speaking fail?

Rebecca Williams [00:11:08]:
Oh, man, that’s, that’s easy. I tell this story all the time. So it was probably, I think, at this point, like 10 years ago now, I was in San Francisco and it was International Women’s Day, and I had been asked to do a talk downtown on a stage in front of this audience of women. And I was really excited because I’m really passionate about working with women and I love presenting, I love being on stage. And, you know, it comes from my days of being on stage when my dad was an opera director, which is another story. But I was excited. So I really prepared for this talk. I wrote my talk and I memorized it and rehearsed it many, many times.

Rebecca Williams [00:11:58]:
And I even bought a new jacket. This, like I don’t know if you know the designer Helmut Lang, but, like, really cool, big shoulder pads. Like, it was a statement, you know? And so the day came, and I. I got on the stage and I launched into my talk, and I was really confident for the first two lines and, like, really nailed it. And then the third line, I just froze and I just blanked out. And I just looked into the audience because there were about, like, 50 women in the audience, like, staring at me. And it was very quiet because I wasn’t saying anything, and they were waiting for me to say something.

Tim Newman [00:12:33]:
And.

Rebecca Williams [00:12:34]:
And so I just decided to start over. I started over again. First two lines were fine. Third line, totally missed it. And, you know, it was getting really challenging because I was really embarrassed, you know, And I. I just. I was making up stories about, oh, my God, they think. They think I’m a loser.

Rebecca Williams [00:12:54]:
They think I’m a failure. Why am I even on this stage? And I. In my mind, I was like, should I just get off the stage now? Should I just leave? But then I. I started over once again, and I. I got through the third line and I made it to the end. And, you know, they. They gave me a round of applause, and I just. I just kind of, like, snuck away and I.

Rebecca Williams [00:13:13]:
I left the building because I was too embarrassed to. To chat with anyone after that. But, I mean, the. The biggest. The biggest lesson from that experience was that. And, you know, it’s something that I’ve had to learn over and over again because again, I had this performance background. I was on stages, and, like, my dad taught me how to make the audience laugh and essentially manipulate the audience. And so I have this performer gene in me now.

Rebecca Williams [00:13:47]:
But when you’re doing a talk, it’s not a performance, right? It’s just like a different function. And so. So I got up there with the intention of performing, but then I realized in the moment, like, oh, it’s actually not a performance. Like, I’m here to have a conversation with them. And so that really shaped the way that I teach public speaking now. Because when you have an idea in yourself that it’s going to be a performance that causes so much anxiety, because who’s a performer? Like, very few people in the world are. Are performers.

Tim Newman [00:14:25]:
That’s such a good story and a good lesson to learn. What about the voice in your head, the I’m a loser. All these people are thinking, you know, I’m horrible. How did you deal with that? In the. In the moment, that’s one thing. But in the Aftermath. How did you deal with that?

Rebecca Williams [00:14:50]:
Yeah, and it’s really a great question because I am really intent on helping people who engage in public speaking, helping them understand that that conversation inside your head, it’s a conversation that all of us have. I mean, I work with CEOs, I work with people who are, like, very, you know, well respected and revered even in their industries, and they also struggle with that voice. And it’s, it’s a unique thing that public speaking kind of, kind of instigates this conversation, this internal conversation of, you know, like, bad vibes. Right? Like, when, when are the other times that we’re, we’re having these negative conversations with ourselves, like, oh, you suck. You should just get off this stage right now. And I think what it is, is it’s really the ego is trying to keep us small. It’s trying to protect us and say, like, oh, maybe you should just not do this. But yeah, to answer your question, I mean, in the moment, in the moment for that story, I just really focus my attention on, like, I’m committed to getting through this no matter what.

Rebecca Williams [00:16:11]:
Because there was an option to just walk off the stage, but that wasn’t, it wasn’t an option for me.

Tim Newman [00:16:16]:
Right. Well, isn’t that always an option? That’s always an option.

Rebecca Williams [00:16:19]:
It’s always an option, but it’s always an option.

Tim Newman [00:16:21]:
But to me, it’s always, it’s always the last resort, worst option. I think in any sense, you’re much better getting through it because at least in my view, every person in that audience, they’re. They’re cheering you on. They want you to succeed. They want you to.

Rebecca Williams [00:16:41]:
Yeah, 100%. And, you know, when we hear the negative statements in our mind. Excuse me. Sometimes it’s, it’s like, oh, they think I am whatever. Insert negative word. Right? They think I’m a whatever. They’re not thinking that. You know, they are looking at you, number one.

Rebecca Williams [00:17:02]:
What they are thinking is, wow, I’m glad that’s not me up there. That’s, that’s what they’re thinking. And they’re also of thinking like, oh, I, you know, I, I really want her to get through this. You know, like, they are cheering you on because they know it’s hard to do. So that’s, that’s really number one. And sure, yes, you always have the option to walk off the stage. But I think, you know, like, this goes into a conversation of self leadership, you know, is that really an option if, if you’re leading yourself to grow? No, it’s not.

Tim Newman [00:17:36]:
It’s not great.

Rebecca Williams [00:17:38]:
One option is to admit, like, hey, I’m really struggling up here. I’m so nervous. And then probably what’s going to happen is the audience is going to give you a round of applause because they want you to do well, and then you can start again. You might struggle a little bit. You’ll get through it, and then it’s a triumph. Right. So it’s all in going through that moment of challenge and finding that. That wherewithal inside yourself to get past it.

Rebecca Williams [00:18:09]:
And then as far as, like, how do you. Even before the moment, how do you tame those voices in your head? It’s positive affirmations. I mean, I think maybe a lot of your listeners will have a personal habit of writing positive affirmations. I know I do. I write them every morning and I focus my attention on the good stuff. And, okay, here’s what I’m doing great. And, you know, here’s the value I’m bringing to the world. And, you know, the human mind is really good at telling negative stories and finding problems.

Rebecca Williams [00:18:47]:
And it’s up to us to train it to see the good, including in ourselves. And we can do that, especially around the skills of public speaking and how we show up in the world.

Tim Newman [00:18:58]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I’m glad you said that, because our brain, it’s designed to protect us, and there’s negative thoughts and that’s what it thinks that it’s doing, but it’s from a realistic perspective. It’s not. And we have to have those positive statements or those positive ideas at the forefront so that we can actually do the things that we know that we can do, that we know that we can be good at and work on things we can. That we need to get better at.

Rebecca Williams [00:19:37]:
Definitely.

Tim Newman [00:19:39]:
You know.

Rebecca Williams [00:19:39]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:19:40]:
When you wrote a book Presenting. Presenting, which I thought was awesome. I love the layout. I love the concept of the interview.

Rebecca Williams [00:19:51]:
I’ll show it. I’ll show it as part of the.

Tim Newman [00:19:54]:
That’s awesome. Yes.

Rebecca Williams [00:19:55]:
Presenting. Presenting. I know some. Some people reached out to me and they were like, hey, do you know that you have the word presenting twice?

Tim Newman [00:20:04]:
What? Oh, got it.

Rebecca Williams [00:20:07]:
It’s like, that’s the whole point.

Tim Newman [00:20:09]:
Exactly.

Rebecca Williams [00:20:10]:
Anyway.

Tim Newman [00:20:12]:
But I love the book in for any number of different reasons. You know, there are a couple pieces that really stood out I’d like to kind of go through with you. I’m a systems person, and anytime that we can have a system or an acronym that is simple and easy to remember that you can put into practice immediately, I think it’s really beneficial to people because it’s something that’s memorable and it doesn’t take a lot of time and effort to be good at at those things. And especially when it comes to communication and public speaking, those types of things are so important because a lot of times that we’re communicating, it’s impromptu, it’s off the cuff. We have to develop our thoughts and ideas almost in real time. But you came up with a couple of them. The first one is the first five formula, which, again, I thought was great. And this is really kind of geared to the whole idea of public speaking, presenting, whether it’s on a stage, in a meeting, what have you.

Tim Newman [00:21:20]:
Can you talk a little bit about that and what that is and how we go about doing that?

Rebecca Williams [00:21:26]:
Yeah. So the first five formula is it’s essentially your presentation, first impression. So whether. And I say presentation in a lot of different contexts, it could be like you’re giving a presentation at work or you’re doing a TED talk, it doesn’t matter. But you’re presenting ideas to an audience. And what I found working with people is that the first. Like that first bit of time when you’re standing in front of people and you’re launching into what you’re going to say is often the hardest part to do. It’s the hardest part to craft, so to speak, because you.

Rebecca Williams [00:22:10]:
There are a lot of different ways that you can approach a talk. And, you know, that’s great. And I’m not for rigidity in a system. Like, if you’re going to do a presentation, you have to use this formula. No, I’m not about that. But what I found working with people over and over again is that they just. They struggle so much, like getting into it, and that it prevents them from doing the iterative process that they need to do to get their ideas solid. So what I created, and this is.

Rebecca Williams [00:22:50]:
It’s been over many, many years now, I think. I think I. I’ve been developing that same first five formula for over 10 years at this point. And I’ve tested it with a lot of different people, with leaders of companies, to individual contributors, to just, you know, individuals doing talks for fun. And I found that it’s really bomb proof because this formula sets you up. It sets up the rest of your talk by connecting with the audience, hooking them with something interesting that they can lean into. They’re automatically engaged, presenting a point, a clear point right at the beginning, introducing a problem which then makes the audience lean in. Because when there’s a problem that’s when we lean in, becomes interesting.

Rebecca Williams [00:23:41]:
Like, that’s storytelling. And then five is introducing this agenda. Like, okay, this is what I’m going to talk about, which is basically, it’s Aristotle, right? Tell them what you’re going to tell them. Tell them, and tell them what you told them. So it’s five parts, and it’s meant to be done in the first five minutes of your talk. And so the five parts are connect, hook, point, problem, agenda. So connect by asking a question, hook by telling a story, point, state your point in a sentence or less very concise problem, introduce a problem that the content of your presentation will answer or solve. And then finally the agenda is, hey, this is what I’m going to talk about.

Rebecca Williams [00:24:32]:
So these five things in the first five minutes, they do a lot of things. They connect you to your audience, they engage them. It makes it really clear what you’re going to talk about, and it generates some interest because you’ve introduced a problem into the mix and then it prepares them for what they’re going to hear. So I, I teach this to all my clients and to all the companies I work with because it’s, I’ve never seen it not work, honestly, like, for so many different examples that I can share more about the examples if you like. But it, it just, I, I like to say, like, it’s a slide into your content. Like, your content’s this big pool of stuff. So how are you going to get into the pool? Well, you could throw people in, but, you know, that doesn’t feel really good. A slide is kind of fun, you know, and it allows them to go in gradually and have an experience along the way.

Rebecca Williams [00:25:32]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:25:33]:
And again, you bring up really good points. And if you could give an example of one that worked, I think that would be great. The whole idea that you’ve got to connect and hook almost immediately or you lose them. I mean, that’s so important. But if you could give an example, I’d love to hear it.

Rebecca Williams [00:25:51]:
Yeah. So of course, I use this formula with all of my trainings and teachings and webinars. And so let’s see, I’ll see if I can remember one that I did. So it’s going to be a little bit meta because I’m talking about presenting and public speaking skills. So imagine the curtain opens, the metaphorical curtain opens, the camera turns on, and I lead with a question. Right. So again, it’s five points. Connect, hook, point, problem, agenda.

Rebecca Williams [00:26:21]:
So connect. What’s your biggest struggle when it comes to giving presentations? And then I either have them answer in the chat, or I get a few people to answer in the audience. Or maybe it’s rhetorical. You don’t need them to answer, but just cueing that, it’s a conversation, it’s not just a monologue. So what’s your biggest struggle when it comes to giving presentations? And then hook. You tell them a story. So I often tell the story that I already told about that day, the International Women’s Day in San Francisco. Point.

Rebecca Williams [00:26:57]:
What was my point? It was something like great leaders are great presenters. Something like that. Like a very simple point. But problem. Many people have forgotten. Or I think it was great leaders are great storytellers, but many people have forgotten how to tell stories. And then the last point is agenda. So today I’m going to talk about basic story structure, how to tie up your story with a resolution, and how to include storytelling in every talk you give.

Rebecca Williams [00:27:32]:
Let’s get started. Right. So it’s. It’s. I don’t know. Is that clear? I’ll let you respond to that.

Tim Newman [00:27:39]:
So that. To me. To me, that’s really clear, and I’m really glad that that’s the example that you gave, because one of the things that I think a lot of people struggle with is how to tell a story or where do we get stories from, or how do we start the story? Or I don’t have this big, great, big, grand story. So what are some ideas or techniques that we can use to help people become better stories, better storytellers?

Rebecca Williams [00:28:13]:
Yeah. Well, I could talk about this for days for sure, but why don’t I focus on two things right away? So, number one, there’s this phrase that I always use, and it is specific, is terrific. So a storyteller is effective when they can really, like, make us feel like we’re there.

Tim Newman [00:28:40]:
Yes.

Rebecca Williams [00:28:42]:
Right. And the way we help our audience feel like they’re there is by giving the details. And sure, we have to strike a balance of how many details do I share? Because you could drown people in details, and then it’s not interesting anymore. But you do want to pepper your story with details. So, for example, the International Women’s Day talk or story that I told you, how many people did I say were in the audience? Tim, let me give you a little quiz right now. See what you remember.

Tim Newman [00:29:12]:
About 50.

Rebecca Williams [00:29:14]:
Okay, great. And what color was the jacket I was wearing?

Tim Newman [00:29:18]:
Oh, my gosh. I know. It had big shoulder pads. It was designed.

Rebecca Williams [00:29:22]:
Okay. And had big shoulder pads. It was black with big shoulder pads. Yeah. So you remember that Detail. Right. And how many times did it take me until I finally got through the talk?

Tim Newman [00:29:34]:
Three.

Rebecca Williams [00:29:35]:
Three. Yeah. So all of that, like, you could answer those questions because I gave you details there, which is what makes a story memorable. Like, I didn’t ask you to remember those things, but you remembered them because they’re specific. So that’s the first key point is specific is terrific and vague is forgotten. If you’re vague in your storytelling. If you say, for example, last week I went abroad and did a talk, you know, like, well, where’d you go? What did you talk about? Right. Like, give us something.

Rebecca Williams [00:30:12]:
Give us something. Yeah. So that’s first as specific as terrific. And the second thing I’ll say is that stories. I mean, our whole life is a story. Right. It’s one long story, which is made up of a lot of little stories, and then stories within those stories. Like, you know, for me, where I am right now, it’s.

Rebecca Williams [00:30:37]:
It’s 2:45 in the afternoon. I’ve already had a million stories today.

Tim Newman [00:30:42]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Williams [00:30:42]:
Like when my locker at the gym wouldn’t open and when I got an unexpected email from the company I’m working with. Like, those are all little stories. So we have to know what is the story we’re telling, and we have to tell only that story. Because the danger, and I’ve seen it happen over and over again, is that people, they don’t know when to stop, and they hook in all these other storylines and it becomes really muddy and messy. So it’s really about clarity and being ruthless in your editing and forcing yourself to be succinct in your storytelling.

Tim Newman [00:31:20]:
And that’s what. I guess that’s what helps you also be specific, too. If you’re not letting these tentacles go out with all these other different things, you really have that opportunity and the ability to drill down and be specific in some of these points.

Rebecca Williams [00:31:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because if you’re. If you’re telling a story that’s as big as Canada, right. Then you’re not going to have time to add specifics because then it would be far too long. Right. So go narrow and deep.

Tim Newman [00:31:50]:
I want to go back to something that you said a little earlier. You said you like to make people laugh. Are you funny?

Rebecca Williams [00:32:02]:
I. I think I’m funny. Yeah. I think I’m funny.

Tim Newman [00:32:06]:
And that’s. There’s a reason why I asked that question. Because, you know, there’s a lot of people who don’t think that they’re funny, but they’re. They come off as funny. I mean, they make people laugh for whatever reason. It could be mannerisms, it could be the way they said something, it could be, it really could be anything. How do we infuse humor into our communication styles, into our presentations, into our really our basic interpersonal communication? Because I think you nailed it with. Humor is so important in how we communicate and how we get our message across.

Rebecca Williams [00:32:46]:
Yeah. Well, I think what I’ll say here is that there’s a continuum of what funny is. Right? Like there’s, there’s me and then there’s Robin Williams over here, you know, like it’s totally, totally different league. But that’s not to say that, that, you know, well, where am I going with it? I, I really believe that everyone has the ability to have some humor and it doesn’t mean that they have to again perform like Robin Williams. But I think so much of it is just being comfortable with yourself and having a laugh at yourself, you know, and not taking yourself so seriously. Because I think a lot of my humor is self, you know, it’s, it’s like I’m making fun of myself a lot, you know, and having the confidence to make fun of yourself I think is a great window and it gives other people permission to not take themselves so seriously too. It brings a lightness like a, it’s a shift in tone that is, it’s really valuable when you are interpersonally connecting. Right?

Tim Newman [00:34:04]:
Yes.

Rebecca Williams [00:34:05]:
You know, if you are steely faced and super serious and you’re not allowing other people to, to be their quirky selves, then it, it’s like going to awake, you know, like nobody’s gonna have a good time. So I think it’s, it’s super important to number one, not take yourself so seriously even if you’re not. If you don’t consider yourself traditionally funny, bring some lightness into what you’re doing by having a laugh by. I think curiosity is one of the best ways to not take yourself seriously is get curious about what other people are thinking and saying either in the meeting, in your audience, get curious to not take your ideas as paramount. I think that’s really important too. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:35:03]:
You know, I’m really glad you said that. And again, there’s a difference between being funny and being a comedian. Right. And I like that you said it’s not a performance. I’m also someone who uses self deprecating humor and I agree with you. I think it’s so important that people can see you making fun of yourself or making jokes about yourself because it does open number one. I think it gives you more credibility. It also opens them up to relax a little bit and to let their guard down a little bit.

Tim Newman [00:35:43]:
And I think once that happens, the communication process becomes so much easier. You’re not fighting the walls or the barriers and you can truly get down to whatever it is that’s, that needs to be done. I just think that, I just think that is so important.

Rebecca Williams [00:36:06]:
Yeah. Have you ever seen Sir Ken Robinson’s TED Talk on education? Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:36:12]:
That to me is one of the best ones ever. And I know I actually use that and I’ve got a standard, standard presentation that’s kind of the, I use that as a model and I talk about that all the time. Just. But go ahead. I’m sorry.

Rebecca Williams [00:36:28]:
Yeah. Well, so he, he leads with the question. And it is, his question that he leads with is hilarious. He walks out on stage like TED Talk in front of all these hundreds of people and his question is, how you doing? You just asked the whole audience, how you doing? So again, that’s the first part of the first five formulas. Connect. Like first connect, ask a question like, get, get into it with people. And he is such a master at self deprecating humor. I mean, wow, what, how hilarious is he? But the thing is, when people laugh, they’re laughing because they’re feeling something.

Rebecca Williams [00:37:06]:
And when people feel things, they remember those things. And so humor is a huge part of what should be. I believe it’s a huge part of education. And I also believe that public speaking is, it’s a sort of education, a kind of education. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim Newman [00:37:26]:
I think we can, we can go down some serious rabbit holes with that. And I’m glad you brought that up because I 100% agree with you with everything you just said. And I think if we, from an education perspective, if we took a step back and made some adjustments, we wouldn’t need. Our jobs will be very different. Let’s just put that way, you know, how we coach people would be very, very different. And I just think that from an educational system perspective, we’ve really missed the mark.

Rebecca Williams [00:38:03]:
Yeah. And I think it’s worthwhile bringing up AI in the context of education as well as public speaking right now. Because, you know, obviously we have this new technology and it’s, it’s shaking up industries, it’s changing the world. And I think a lot of people are really, they’re scared of like, oh, is AI going to take my job? And you know, how, how am I going to navigate this new landscape? And What I am 100% convinced of is that AI is going to force, force us to be better storytellers and it’s going to force us to be better connectors. Because, you know, it’s, it’s one thing to have information and share information with people. AI is great at that. But AI does not have lived experience. Sure, it can make up a story, but that’s very different from hearing a human being’s experience on the planet and how it changed them and what they learned.

Rebecca Williams [00:38:59]:
So we really, we owe it to ourselves and to all of you listening. I challenge you to tell more stories and become more proficient at storytelling and use that to wield influence in your personal and professional lives. Because I really think that that’s going to be the, it’s going to be the thing that sets you apart as a professional more and more as AI comes into our world.

Tim Newman [00:39:25]:
Yeah, again, I love that you said that. Again, I agree. You know, I look at it along the same lines in that, you know, I don’t care what business or industry you’re in, everything is still always going to come down to personal relationships and connections. And, and if we, if we can’t build personal relationships, we can’t tell those stories. If we can’t communicate with individuals, we’re not going to make it. So it can be AI mean you can have it, but you’re still, you’re still going to have to interact with people, you’re still going to have to have relationships, you’re still going to have to have to build those relationships and cultivate them and connect with people. And that’s where, you know, again, storytelling really, really comes into play.

Rebecca Williams [00:40:13]:
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I mean, I use AI every day. You know, I have two AI platforms that I use literally every day. It’s my assistant. But there are a lot of things I don’t use it for. Like, I don’t use it to help me with storytelling.

Tim Newman [00:40:31]:
Right.

Rebecca Williams [00:40:31]:
Maybe if I write a story and then I need some help editing and like, you know, how can I make this more concise or how can I make this clearer? But I’m very, very careful because works so fast, it can lose a lot of the nuance and the humanity of a thing or the turn of phrase. And we owe it to ourselves to pay attention to all that stuff because AI is not perfect and we have skills that we still need to be developing. We can’t just hand it all over. Right, exactly.

Tim Newman [00:41:08]:
Exactly. I put something, it was, it was like a, it was like a one page narrative into chat GPT. And I, and I, I obviously didn’t give it a really good prompt. That’s it. Yeah, that’s the other piece to it. And when it spit it back out, I read it and I said, you’ve. You changed the entire meaning of it. Changed the entire meaning of it.

Tim Newman [00:41:33]:
It doesn’t sound like me anymore. And. And I was like, well, I just wasted all the time. I waste, what, two and a half minutes of doing it. But, you know, but.

Rebecca Williams [00:41:44]:
And you got frustrated, so that’s part of your time.

Tim Newman [00:41:49]:
But again, part of it is the prompt. I needed. I probably needed to give it a better prompt, but I didn’t, so I just scrapped that instead of going forward and I gave it to my wife to look at and edit and say, look, this is what I’m thinking. Is it getting that. Is it getting that point across? Does it make that point? Does it. Again, does it sound like me? You know, from. You know, really, from that perspective? Because my not getting too deep, but my writing process is. Is a little bit different.

Tim Newman [00:42:23]:
But I go from being very structured and professional, and then I. Then I create it to make it sound like I’m actually talking as opposed to, you know, a written document. Let’s just put it that way.

Rebecca Williams [00:42:40]:
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. One of my favorite prompts is don’t rewrite this. Let’s have a conversation about it. And that’s cool because it’s. Yeah, it’s really. Then it becomes your thought partner instead of your writer. Like, I don’t really believe that AI does a great job at writing quite yet.

Tim Newman [00:42:59]:
Right.

Rebecca Williams [00:43:00]:
Yeah. So. But. But being a thought partner is helpful.

Tim Newman [00:43:05]:
That’s. That’s a. I like that. I really do. Yeah. So there’s a YouTube video about. Right. It’s.

Tim Newman [00:43:16]:
It’s writing the. The best prompt ever to write a prompt. And.

Rebecca Williams [00:43:26]:
Wow.

Tim Newman [00:43:27]:
And it was like a page and a half of a prompt. Tone it how it wants the other prompt to be. So I’m like, that’s getting a little bit too much for me because if I’m doing all of that, I’ll just go ahead and write it myself. But anyway, but you’re right. I think AI can really help. And if we’re not using AI, I think we’re doing it wrong, because you better learn how to use it. There’s a lot of benefits to it. And I do think that.

Tim Newman [00:43:58]:
I think. I think the people that are afraid that they’re going to take their job or whatever reason, I think if they were to just maybe learn a little bit about what. What it’s doing and where it’s going, they’ll understand that, yes, it may take over some tasks, but it’s not going to take over everything that it’s portrayed that’s going to take over because again, it’s still going to be that there’s interpersonal relationships.

Rebecca Williams [00:44:30]:
Yeah. Well, I really subscribe to what Scott Galloway says about AI in that you’re not going to lose your job to AI. You’re going to lose your job to someone who understands and knows how to use AI.

Tim Newman [00:44:42]:
Right.

Rebecca Williams [00:44:42]:
Which is 100% true. And you know, if you are one of those people who hasn’t engaged with AI yet and either you’re skeptical or fearful or you’re just not interested, I would just encourage you to get on the free version of ChatGPT and ask it to help you plan a trip to Spain or wherever you want to go. Like, just start using it in your day to day life. So number one, so you’re more efficient because it will help you be more efficient with a ton of different tasks. Like what did I ask it to do the other day? I think I asked it to, I was starting this new, like testing out this new eating regimen and I said, okay, you know, I’m, I, I can only eat this stuff. Can you come up with a shopping list for me so that when I go to the grocery store I know what to buy? And it just went. And I was like, okay, great. And then out the door I went.

Rebecca Williams [00:45:42]:
I didn’t have to think about it, it was just my assistant. Yeah. And I think when you start using it in low stakes scenarios like that, you really start to understand how it can be helpful to you in your life. Because that’s what technology is for.

Tim Newman [00:45:59]:
Exactly.

Rebecca Williams [00:46:00]:
We use technology all the time. This pen is technology. How would your life be different if you didn’t have a pen? You know, like, technology evolves us, it sparks our evolution. So ignoring a tool, a new technology, it’s not a great idea because it’s happening anyway. It’s kind of like saying, oh, you know, I understand that the car exists as a technology, but I’m not going to participate in that.

Tim Newman [00:46:29]:
Yeah, I’m out in automobiles. Out.

Rebecca Williams [00:46:31]:
Right. I’m just gonna bike everywhere and hey, that’s fine, like that’s a choice too. You’re gonna have great legs and a great butt. But you know, like, let’s be real, like this is the way the world is, is going.

Tim Newman [00:46:42]:
Exactly, exactly.

Rebecca Williams [00:46:43]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:46:45]:
Again, I love the AI conversation. I didn’t, wasn’t planning on going there but it’s so important, and it’s so important from the communication perspective that we talk about this and that people understand AI’s role and how it can, how we can use it to help become better communicators. You know, there’s so many things out there and I talk especially with, you know, people that are applying for jobs and young professionals going out to get the first job. There are programs and AI models out there where you can feed the prompt and it will give you a practice interview and we can grade you on those things. So there’s ways that we can use AI to actually help us become better communicators as well. So don’t be so standoffish on it, Embrace it. Because like you said, it’s here, it’s not going anywhere.

Rebecca Williams [00:47:37]:
Yeah. And I actually, I have a platform that I use with my clients all the time. Excuse me. It’s called yoodli Y O O D L I AI and it’s an AI speech coach. And I. There’s a free version which is really great and I encourage you to check it out where you can do interview role plays and it can give you speech feedback and stuff like that. But then I have a version that I use with my clients and I’ve trained it on my content. So for example, it knows the first five formula and it knows all these different frameworks that I teach.

Rebecca Williams [00:48:13]:
And yeah, it’s a great way because look like working with a coach one on one, it can be expensive and not everybody has those resources. So using AI to improve your communication skills, like you said, it’s totally on the table and it’s really useful. It’s really useful. And you know, I share all the time that it’s, you know, studies show over and over again that communication skills are really the number one skill you need to advance in your career. If you want to be in a leadership role, if you want to get promoted, if you want a raise, you need communication skills to not just prove yourself worthy, but you need communication skills to ask for the raise or ask for the promotion or you know, or lead people. Exactly. So yeah, I can’t stress it enough how important it is to practice these skills.

Tim Newman [00:49:08]:
Well, you’re using the AI for lots of good things. I’m using it to, to develop pictures of me going surfing. Oh, cool. That’s how I spent a couple hours over the weekend.

Rebecca Williams [00:49:21]:
How are you doing that? What’s that?

Tim Newman [00:49:23]:
Oh, so I can’t remember the actual website, but it’s. So basically what you do is you get High quality pictures of yourself, your face, your body, and you, you, you need about 30 of them and you put them into this AI system and I can’t remember, I’ll text it to you and I’ll actually put in the show notes for everybody too. But. And it runs. Whatever it does. Whatever it does. And then you can use that model and you can give it prompts. So I said, you know, have, have me and I gave my, my age, height, weight, surfing in Hawaii wearing a blue shirt and swim trunks or whatever.

Tim Newman [00:50:13]:
And it comes back. And now some of them aren’t very good, but some of them are really pretty good.

Rebecca Williams [00:50:18]:
Wow. Okay. So it’s an image generator that you trained on your own images.

Tim Newman [00:50:23]:
Yes. Yeah.

Rebecca Williams [00:50:24]:
Okay.

Tim Newman [00:50:27]:
And the reason why I started doing it is, is because I. Making thumbnails for YouTube, you know, because I, I have, I have some images that I use and that’s great, but I want to be a little bit, start being a little bit more creative with it and, and you could do all kinds of stuff. So I did one. My, my youngest daughter got married a couple years ago and actually back when I, when I sent those, I sent them to my family. I said, look, you know, do you guys, do you all remember when we did this? They’re like, when do we do that? I don’t remember that at all.

Rebecca Williams [00:51:03]:
So you tricked them?

Tim Newman [00:51:04]:
I did, I did. And oh my God, I sent them. I did one. My, my daughter got married a couple years ago and I said, beth, you don’t remember me giving the speech at your wedding?

Rebecca Williams [00:51:16]:
And she thought to herself, oh, wow, is I that drunk already?

Tim Newman [00:51:19]:
Exactly. Here’s the thing though, and if you have anybody else in the picture though, so like in the wedding ones that I did it, the, it confuses it so it puts you in the other people’s positions. So I was in that picture like three other times with your other people. So it had the picture of me standing up with a microphone speaking, but people in the background. People in the background were actually me, so that’s creepy. It is.

Rebecca Williams [00:51:46]:
Oh, I love it. Yeah. Please share that with me. I’m going to spend, spend hours on that, I’m sure.

Tim Newman [00:51:51]:
Yeah, and it’s cheap too, so you pay by picture. It’s like three cents a picture.

Rebecca Williams [00:51:56]:
Oh, wow, that’s great. Super accessible.

Tim Newman [00:51:59]:
Yeah. So we went down that rabbit hole. That is what it is. Let’s get back to talking about your book. I think that’s. Anyway, again, I told you I really like the layout and the interview format. It’s really, really unique. How did that come about? And can you give us a bit more detail on the book and where they can get it and those types of things?

Rebecca Williams [00:52:22]:
Yeah. So the book, the format, as you said, it came about because. So for those of you who haven’t seen it, which is probably most of you, the book is done in an interview format. So my friend Jeff Goldsmith, he used to work at Wired magazine years ago, and he was a writer, but also an interviewer. So he would go interview famous people, like he interviewed Cheech and Chong, he interviewed Allen Ginsberg, and then he would turn those interviews into content for the magazine. And so I’ve known Jeff for years from San Francisco, and he reached out to me one day and he said, hey, I have this idea. He’s like, what if I interview you about what you do and we’ll turn it into a book? And I thought, oh, that’s great, because number one, I love writing, number one. But number two, I have to say, it’s pretty selfish.

Rebecca Williams [00:53:19]:
I was getting tired of saying the same things all the time. I just wanted to codify everything so I could say, oh, go read chapter two. So there was a little self purpose in there. So we set out on this project and what we did is we did about two years. It took two years, and we probably met every other month or something like that. And we met over zoom. And he would interview me and he had access to a lot of my documents that I use in my work in my business, training people and communication skills. And so he would look at those and then ask me questions based on what he was finding there to try to unpack what I do and my methodology.

Rebecca Williams [00:54:04]:
And so what became of that was just a very interesting conversation between two friends about public speaking. And after those interviews were all done, we took it and we had all the interviews transcribed. And then I took it and I entered into the editing process, which the editing process can be quite hard because you’re trying to tell a story with a lot of content that’s seemingly on the same level, Right. So you’re trying to figure out what’s the beginning, what’s the middle, what’s the end. And. And so it was a super joyful process because I. I love. I think one of the reasons why I love teaching and coaching communication skills and especially storytelling is because I love structure.

Rebecca Williams [00:54:55]:
And I love things to be in place so that they have a function and so they’re meaningful. And so taking all of that information and then putting it into a structure that has meaning for People was really a joyful process for me. And. Yeah, and that’s what came out of it is this book. And yeah. You read it, Tim?

Tim Newman [00:55:18]:
I did. I really enjoyed it because again, it flowed really nice. There were a lot of stories in there which, which again, made it a real easy read. You know, it was something that I could relate to a lot, A lot of really good points. And I would suggest, I would suggest people just pick it up and read it because it’s not, it’s easy to read. It’s not a. It’s not a hard book to understand. There’s.

Tim Newman [00:55:43]:
There’s a lot of really good information, information there that you can use again, like right away you read it. Oh, that’s a good idea. You can start using it right away. It’s not something that you have to, to work on or plan for weeks or months at a time. You read it and you can start using it right away and start becoming better today and not have to wait.

Rebecca Williams [00:56:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. I take pride in being a practical teacher. So it’s very practical. Lots of super clear tips and strategies for how to be a better public speaker, how to be a better storyteller. And yeah, I, I guarantee that you will learn something and that you’ll remember a lot. And there’s a lot in here too, about mindset and about some of the things we talked about, like, don’t take yourself so seriously and have fun with it. And we’re all making these mistakes.

Rebecca Williams [00:56:38]:
And it’s not priming you to give a TED Talk, per se, but it’s encouraging you to raise your voice and take the microphone and engage in that, because it really, really does matter to share what’s on the inside of you with, with other people. So, yeah, you can pick it up on Amazon and yeah, I encourage you, I encourage you to grab it. It’s a great resource.

Tim Newman [00:57:03]:
Absolutely. And where else can people find you to connect with you?

Rebecca Williams [00:57:07]:
Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram, ealrebeccawilliams, and you can also find me on LinkedIn, Rebecca WilliamsWorks, and those are the main places. I also have a YouTube channel. I think it’s at Rebecca Williams or something like that. But I encourage you just reach out to me on LinkedIn and Instagram and say that you heard me on, on Tim’s show. That’d be great. I’d love to connect with, with people.

Tim Newman [00:57:33]:
That’s awesome. I appreciate it. I’ll put all those links in the show notes for everybody so that they have it. And Rebecca, thank you so much for for joining me today and spend some time with us. I really do appreciate it.

Rebecca Williams [00:57:45]:
Thanks. Tim. Yeah, it’s been a pleasure. Great conversation. Thank you.

Tim Newman [00:57:48]:
Take care. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, the Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Forum for Public Speaking. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time. Take care.

Rebecca Williams [00:58:10]:
SA.