Conquering Communication: Lessons from Climbing Mount Fuji with Vesela Mantegna

Tim: 0:38

Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast that’s here to help you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I’m your host, tim Newman, and I’m excited to take you on a journey to become a better public speaker. Today’s guest, vesla Mangana, is a business coach and mentor with 13 years of corporate finance experience at Ernst Young in both the United States and Bulgaria. She is a senior trainer of Peter Sage and facilitates his six-month personal transformation program called Elite Mentorship Forum. Basila graduated from Warwick University in the United Kingdom. Her mission is to help people find their purpose in life and live their authentic self. Kingdom Her mission is to help people find their purpose in life and live their authentic self. Her biggest achievement so far is climbing Mount Fuji in Japan with a height of 3,776 meters, which is almost 13,000 feet. Vesla number one, that’s a great accomplishment.

Vesela: 1:30

but welcome to the show. So glad to have you on, Thank you. Thank you, Tim. I’m very happy that I’m guest with you in your podcast. Speaking with Confidence, it’s my pleasure.

Tim: 1:38

We’re going to have a good time today and you know we’re going to talk a lot about building and developing confidence with you. But first I really want to hear about this experience you had climbing Mount Fuji. You know what brought you to that decision to do that. What was it like? What was the training like? What was the experience like?

Vesela: 1:58

Yeah, actually this is a graduate decision, so it was not like I wake up one morning and I said I want to climb Fuji Mountain. I start first with other peaks, other mountains, with other peaks, other mountains. I climbed most of the big mountains in Bulgaria and I climbed big hills in Bulgaria, like lots of them, and like five, six mountains. I did different mountains climbings during the winter as well, when there is lots of snow. So I prepared for this and one day, with the guy I was climbing the mountain, I asked him what is the farthest, uh, what is your farthest next adventure climbing a mountain? And he told me fuji mountain in japan. And I said I’m coming. So I was so excited and what I realized before that that allowed me to climb the mountain was I was prepared, uh, prepared in advance in order to to climb uh, to climb Fuji. Unless I was not prepared, I would have uh not able, uh have not been able to climb the mountain.

Tim: 3:19

So what did you learn about yourself in terms of that preparation and what was it actually like throughout the process of climbing a mountain? Because I’ve never done it, but I can’t imagine like there’s just a regular walking path. You just stroll up the mountain and there you go. What was that like?

Vesela: 3:40

Yeah, one of the lessons I’ve learned for myself you have to be prepared for surprises and no matter how much you have prepared yourself in advance, you have to be able to meet surprises and unforeseen circumstances. Because what happened to us when we started climbing? Actually we did a night climbing. We started at nine o’clock in the evening so we wanted to reach out the sunrise in the morning. It was like 345 or something like this, I don’t remember exactly, but we did it through the night, the climbing, and the moment we started climbing it became raining. So we were not prepared.

Vesela: 4:24

Yeah, we were prepared with this, with raincoats, but actually we were not prepared to have rain. We knew we prepared the raincoats, but we didn’t expect it. So it was raining from the very first step until the end. So what we did throughout our climbing is that we stopped at somewhere, so we were not able to reach out the mountain, the peak, for the sunrise, but it was the best decision. So what I’ve learned is no matter how I’m prepared, we have to be prepared for surprises and unforeseen circumstances and to be able to act accordingly Because we can say okay, we came here, we traveled so long in order to see the sunrise from the peak in the morning. But what is more important to see the sunrise or to become alive and safe?

Tim: 5:22

Safe and alive.

Vesela: 5:24

Yes, yeah, because there were people who were very cold and if we haven’t stopped and warmed ourselves, it could have been very bad for them. And we were a big group, like 25 people, so it’s important to be able to meet the unforeseen circumstances, but you are only able to meet unforeseen circumstances if you were prepared before that circumstances if you were prepared before that.

Tim: 5:58

Yeah, that’s a lesson, I guess, in life and pretty much everything that we do. And you know, climbing mountains is one thing you’ve got to be prepared because of, obviously, you know safety and life-threatening issues and all those other things that come along with it. But you know, just from a public speaking perspective, you know things happen. You know you may lose electricity, you may lose, you know the projector may go off. You know I’ve done presentations on a cruise ship and fire alarms go off and we have to evacuate and go out on the deck. I mean. So you just have to be able to be flexible but, like you said, be prepared for those types of things, come up and be able to adjust and move on.

Vesela: 6:43

Yeah, it’s exactly. I loved your comparison because with public speaking it is exactly the same. You prepare for something, but something unexpected might happen and you have to have the confidence to act accordingly. And recently I had a situation. I was a public speaker for an international conference. It was online.

Vesela: 7:10

I joined online for 30 minutes present speech and it was supposed to be at 10.30 in the morning, my time. But at some point the organizer asked me would you be able to join earlier? Because something is. I need to help them. So at this point I was prepared well in advance and I was able to act and to react and to help them. So at this point I was prepared well in advance and I was able to act and to react and to help them. So it’s all about the preparation. If you fail in the preparation, you will fail in the public speaking and you will not be able to act accordingly. As you said, the fire alarm was on, so this might destroy you, this might destroy your presence. So the more confident you are before the actual speech, the better you can act during the speech.

Tim: 8:11

Absolutely In preparation. I like that. You said you prepared for that hike up the speech. Yeah, absolutely. And preparation, like I like that you said you know you prepared for that hike up the mountain. But I think anything that we’re going to be good at doesn’t really matter. Whatever it is. You have to prepare, you have to practice, you have to put the work in at the beginning to ever really be good at it.

Vesela: 8:33

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This is really really right. You have to prepare, and this I experienced in the corporate world as well. If I’m not prepared, I cannot meet the expectations of the client I’m working with In the corporate world. As a financial auditor, I audited big companies and I interviewed many people like from finance directors, ceos, different people and if I’m not prepared in advance, I would not be able to have a good interview and to take the information I need from them.

Tim: 9:07

Yeah. So, bessie, talk a little bit about your public speaking journey. You know, do you have any? You know, embarrassing moments that stick out? You know, for me, you know I tell a story, a lot that you know, when I first started, I threw up in front of everybody, you know, and and I you know, so I you know.

Tim: 9:25

I think it’s important that that that everybody understands number one it’s okay you, you have to grow and move on from it, but but you have any, you know embarrassing moments, that kind of stick out to you.

Vesela: 9:37

Yeah, actually, at the beginning of my journey with public speaking and I always tell people that if you talk in front of one person, this is already a public, so it’s already a public speaking. So I was very shy when I was a kid. I was very shy public speaking, so I was very shy. When I was a kid, I was very shy. And I remember in the school when the teacher was examining me and I had to speak in front of other students, I was very, very shy and I was very embarrassed. So when I start, if I unless I have learned everything by heart I was not able to speak and one thing I’m experiencing while I was speaking at the beginning, it was like I become red, my face become red, I’m very hot and, yeah, it is very embarrassing. By the way, when you become red and you need to speak in front of the audience, you cannot people see this, so this makes you even being more embarrassed.

Vesela: 10:43

But what I’ve learned and this was at the beginning but what I’ve learned is it’s all about practice. The moment you start practicing, this is the way you can overcome this. It’s always when I have public speaking, I’m a little bit excited, but it’s a different way and very quickly I’m in control. So at the beginning this was the biggest embarrassment for me, that when I’m shy I become red and my face is becoming red and everybody can see that I’m shy and I’m embarrassed and I don’t know what to do and what to say. But obviously, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, and the thing is, although I was shy, I was always prepared. So no matter I was shy, I was prepared what I want to say. And after the first embarrassment, let’s say first few minutes or let’s say five minutes, it depends on the speech. And then I say I’m taking control at everything, get in place. So again we are coming back to the preparation side, because I always was preparing myself. I never joined the public speaking, public speech or discussion or anything in public without me being prepared.

Tim: 12:12

Yeah, I think you nailed it. It all comes back to preparation and, at least from my perspective, if you’re not confident in what you’re doing, it really comes back to. You probably haven’t, the more confident you are with it. And again, I come from a sport background. You know, no team or individual goes out to a competition without practicing. You know, without knowing what the game plan is, without knowing you know the step-by-step things that they want to do. And to me, public speaking is really the same thing. You have to practice, you have to do the research. And again, when I talk about practice, I’m not talking about just sitting down reading your notes, I’m talking about actually doing the presentation.

Tim: 13:01

you know in front of a mirror, in front of a camera, in front of other people, those types of things, it’s so important, yeah, and often people they are afraid of doing the first step.

Vesela: 13:15

When I did a transition from the corporate world when I was employed to the entrepreneur world when I became my own employer and I started doing my coaching business, it’s very much related to public speaking, to doing lots of videos in the social media, expressing my ideas to people through speaking videos and other listening. Not only video, but what I was asked at the beginning. One of my teachers told me mentors, not teachers. One of my mentors told me you have to start speak, like switch on the phone, open the, put it on video mode and start speaking. Just, you have to start.

Vesela: 14:07

And at the beginning I was preparing so many hours what to say, how to say, because I was postponing the moment to start speaking in front of the public and the moment I did it one time, then I see it, I saw it’s not, it’s not so scary because people say that public speaking is more scary than the death. Yeah, yeah, and people are very scared when they have to speak in front than the deaf. Yeah, yeah, and people are very scared when they have to speak in front of the public. And, by the way, when I work with lots of people, individually, in groups, and now I’m a mentor to students, people who are in the last grade in the high school, and one of the things they’re saying they want to excel. One of the skills is exactly to learn how to speak in front of the public and how to assert themselves in public, because people are shy, they don’t know what to say, how to say so. This is one of the most famous problems people face.

Tim: 15:18

Yeah, and the reality is the majority of people are shy and introverted like us, and if we can learn to just be who we are and get over some of those things, like you said, just actually start the process, just do it and do the baby steps it becomes. It still works, but it becomes easier. You do it once. It becomes easier to do it. The second time, you know I was last night I was at a networking function, which to me, being an introvert, is oh, I hate going to them, but obviously it’s part of what we have to do. Right, sometimes in life you just have to do things that we don’t like to do, and it’s I work myself up going in there. But as soon as I get in there and I start talking to people which you know, if I’m in front of people and talk to them, it’s great, all that goes away. So you just have to just put yourself out there, do the uncomfortable things, and good things come from that.

Vesela: 16:21

Yeah, I love what you say just to be who you are, and this is one of the things practically I’m teaching people who come to me and want my help to learn them how to speak with confidence about their themselves who you are, what you do, why you do what you do uh, why you are here. So if you work with yourself for your self-awareness, who you are, why you do the things you are doing, this will help you for the public speaking as well. Why you do this speech, why you are. This will help you for the public speaking as well. Why you do this speech, why you are on that stage.

Vesela: 16:58

If you have an answer of all those questions, this definitely will help you to be a better presenter and a better speaker, because you better know why I’m here and usually people, when they go on stage, they, instead of sharing their experience, they want to impress the audience, and this is where they get wrong, because when you want to impress somebody, your focus, your focus is on the alert award, on the medal, on the final result, and you miss to to be who you are and to see the path that you’re actually the road.

Vesela: 17:39

It’s not about the focus on the result, but what type of presenter you may become through that speech. So every other speech helps you to grow as a person and as a speaker and, unless you’re trying to impress other people, just share who you are. What is your experience, why you are here? Of course you have to structure your presentation, understand your audience, who is there, why they’re. They came to listen to you all those technical things you need to mind in order to have a good speech, but the basic principle is to share your experience and to show who you are, not to impress other people.

Tim: 18:24

Exactly, and that whole idea of you know people judging you. They’re not judging you, they’re not even thinking about you. They’re thinking about who’s judging them. Right, and it’s that imposter syndrome. You know you’re on that stage or you have that position. You have that job where you’re leading this team for a reason you know you’re. You know the the the organization didn’t hire you because they wanted to fail. They hired you because you brought certain skills and abilities and knowledge and perspective and they want you to be able to share that. So, so embrace it and that’s that. That’s you know. I think, especially with, with, with the younger generations today, I think, for any number of reasons, they put so much emphasis and thought on what other people are thinking about them, when the reality is they’re not even really thinking about it.

Vesela: 19:24

Yeah, actually there are two very important things. It’s the opinion on other people, so we need their validation of the other people, what they would have said. I have to be perfect, I have to be great. But the other important thing is other young people. They just started and they want from the first try to be at the highest, uh at the at the peak. They want to be at the fuji mountain at the peak, like they just started, but they want to climb the mountain and what I’ve shared at the beginning I climbed, climbed other mountains before I started this one. So people want to get uh, most of the successful people when they reach their peak and their success. They went through many, many challenges and the road was long. But young people want to get to the end right away and they don’t realize you cannot get there right, right away. You cannot become a good speaker unless you speak many, many times and you fail sometimes from out of those many, many times. But they just want to be the best speaker in the first speech and there is no help.

Vesela: 20:37

And actually this was the same with me. I want, I wanted to be perfect. That’s why I didn’t want to start doing videos at the beginning of my coaching career because I wanted to be the best. I said, if sees me, I want him to see the perfect me, the best version of me, and I have to prepare for the best version. But yeah, and I understand those people because I have been in their shoes, I was there already. Yeah, but there is no shortcut. People often ask me do you have, is there any shortcut to anything? I said no, there is no shortcut. People often ask me do you have, is there any shortcut to anything? I said no, there is no shortcut. You cannot get to the Everest or to Fuji like shortcut. You just need to start from the bottom of the below the peak and start climbing step by step. There is no shortcut.

Tim: 21:35

Yeah, and people spend more time trying to take shortcuts to get things done than if they just follow the step-by-step process, follow the path and doing the work, and it’s. It’s funny sometimes when they come back and look at you and say, well, I shouldn’t just listen to you, well, you probably should have but, but but you are now, so let’s just get busy and and and work on getting better. I mean, there’s no sense in looking backwards, just forwards and and and just start being awesome. Let’s just go ahead and get stuff done, you know so. So taking shortcuts I think is is is one of the biggest misconceptions, um, that people have about building confidence and stepping outside their comfort zones were some others.

Vesela: 22:14

Yeah, one very important thing is the competence. Unless you’re competent in what you’re talking about, you will not succeed in your public speech or public presentation or whatever it is. Competence is very important and, again, you cannot be a competent person like for one day. You build your competence day by day, month after month, year after year, and so, unless you’re competent, you cannot have a good presentation. So, unless you’re competent, you cannot have a good presentation.

Vesela: 22:51

And another very important thing is the inner dialogue that you have with yourself, because often people have that inner dialogue that is sabotaging them, inner dialogue that is against them. This is the criticizer who is saying you will not succeed, you’re not prepared enough, you’re not good enough. But if people activate the champion in their mind because in our mind we have champion and criticizer, or, uh, the, the one who is sabotaging is us. So if you active, activate the, the champion in your mind, the one who is saying I can do it, I’m learning, this is part of my growth, this is how you will become a better speaker and a better presenter. Every speech is part of your growth as a good speaker. And even if this speech is a failure in your eyes, you think you didn’t do it great or the way you wanted. This still learned you and is a step in the way of your growth to become a good speaker. So prepare in terms of being competent on topics that you’re talking about.

Vesela: 24:32

And the other thing just silence the criticizer and activate your champion in your mind and change your inner dialogue. Change it with positive things. But it’s not that toxic positive things, because toxic positivity people are. Often people are like toxic positive. They’re, they’re angry or they don’t like and they’re. It’s not about to be toxic positive, it’s about to to encourage yourself. You can do it, you are, you have prepared yourself for so long. You’re capable person, you’re good enough, somebody has invited you there. So this type of dialogue that is genuine, genuine, um, authentic and positive. It’s not like you’re best, you’re the best one. It’s not about this. It’s about the encouragement that you can do it and you’re good enough in order to do it.

Tim: 25:21

Yeah, and I think that’s such a good point. And I think, to take that just one step further, it’s also who we surround ourselves with, too, right, I mean, I think you know, on one hand, you know we as individuals we want people to tell us how great we are, but you don’t want to surround yourself with people who’s always telling you that how great you are. We really need people to be honest with us and say you know what, tim, you messed up here. This is what you need to work on. Or you know why? Don’t you try doing these types of things? You’re good at this, but you should probably start working on this. Or you should, you know, do other things to get better, because if we surround ourselves with people that are telling us how great we are all the time, number one, we’re never really growing and we don’t ever really know if we’re good at something or not.

Vesela: 26:15

Exactly, and actually I have a training on public speaking and recently I’ve got a client from corporate world where she wanted to improve her public speaking skills skills and when it was when we get to the point, how to ask for feedback from the audience, from the participant or for her peers or for her boss when she was presenting anything, um, uh, it’s uh. It’s very important to be able to ask appropriately feedback, because sometimes the way we ask feedback, we are just expecting to hear something good and this is how the person will give us a feedback. He will tell us something good, but he will not tell us the real story, the real thing he thinks. That’s why it’s very important really to be open to ask for an honest feedback, because I know people who are public speakers. They go to various events and they believe they are very, very good speakers and like they reach the ceiling and there is no more where they can improve themselves. But when we get to that point, this is the first step before we are failing, because if you think that there is nowhere you can, you reach the ceiling and you cannot grow anymore.

Vesela: 27:39

You’re the best and the great that’s actually. You don’t know where you are at the moment. It’s very important to be aware what is your starting point at the moment in terms of public speaking. Am I confident enough or I’m not confident enough? And if I’m not confident enough and I’m honest and open to acknowledge this in front of myself, this is the first step to improve. But if I say I’m confident enough but you are not, so you will not improve yourself. So, not asking not being able to ask about feedback, but being open to hear honest and real feedback from the other side. It’s really, really important.

Tim: 28:31

It is. And again I go back to, you know my background in the sport industry. You know, if you look at some of the all-time greats in sport and in their position they always worked hard, I mean up until they retired and I guess even post that, you know, working on basic skills, trying to get better, hiring coaches to help them get better and improve, and if we can see the best of the best trying to improve, it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense why we, as and I air-freak sense, why you know why we, as, as you know, air fingers, quote you know regular people, why why are we thinking that we’re the best at something and not trying to get better? You know, I say I think that’s, I think there’s a fine line in in obsession and and and and truly trying to improve at our craft.

Vesela: 29:32

Actually, the confident mind is the open mind. Everyone who is confident, he is open to learn and he knows that he doesn’t know everything. But he doesn’t mean that he’s not confident, open to learn and he’s open to the audience. Because when you are not open this is a state of mind you will not be able to be open for the audience and you will not know who is the audience and what the audience is expecting from you. And usually those people are, they’re more talking to themselves rather than talking to the audience exactly because they’re so no, go ahead, go ahead, you’re good.

Vesela: 30:19

I wanted to say because they’re so in love with their way of speaking so they cannot hear other people and what they want. Yeah, this is another thing that I observed in public speaking.

Tim: 30:35

So let’s go to the opposite end of the spectrum. You know how do we help people build confidence if they’ve got, you know, low self-esteem. If you know, if you’re too confident that’s bad, but if you’re not confident enough and you have low self-esteem, how do we help those people get better and build that long-lasting confidence?

Vesela: 31:01

Yeah, the first step is to sit down and say, okay, where I am at the moment, which is my point A, which is my starting point, where I am at the moment. Then the next thing is where I want to go. If I want to excel my public speaking skills, where I want to go? If I want to excel my public speaking skills, where I want to go To have a goal which is challenging and achievable at the same time. Because if you set a goal that is not achievable for you, you don’t have those skills or you don’t have talents in this, you will not achieve your goal, you don’t have talents in this, you will not achieve, uh, uh, achieve your goal. So you have to know your point a, then what is your point b and then what are the uh, the, the uh, the steps towards this.

Vesela: 31:47

And one very important thing you just need to start and act. People do not act. Unless you act, you cannot achieve anything. So someone really needs to start and do some actions. It could be small steps. It could be talking to a small audience it’s a video or talking to himself in front of the mirror. It could be something very small. Often, people have limiting beliefs, limiting beliefs that limits them and they fear of speaking in front of the public. What other people will say what my mom would say? My dad would say my spouse? So we have to identify if there is any limiting belief this person has and if there is a limiting belief, we need to identify and find a way how to overcome that limiting belief.

Tim: 32:45

It’s it’s very important and yeah, you know, a lot of times, you know, we talk a lot about the whole idea of our inner dialogue, which causes some of those limiting beliefs, but we really can’t forget about the individuals that have had outside trauma, whether that be physical or mental, that have caused other types of limiting beliefs, and understand that they can be helped and that we can get them from where they are to a more confident place and actually believing that they are worthy, that they can become good and successful at things.

Vesela: 33:24

Actually, you opened the question for asking for help. Lots of people don’t ask for help and there are many, many people. They believe they can do it by themselves and they have to do it by themselves. And they have to do it by themselves and it might because they’ve been educated from their parents like this, or their parents has been very demanding from them. But many, many people still do not ask for help. They believe it expected from them and they’re trying to do by themselves.

Vesela: 33:55

But if you have some personal drama or trauma from the past, you cannot overcome it by yourself. And this is where you have to be, to have the confidence to ask for help, because help will make you be more powerful. It’s not that you cannot do things. It’s not that you’re not capable. It’s about you become more capable.

Vesela: 34:19

And very often people make comparisons. So the brain works in a way. The first thing the brain does when new information is, when the brain processes new information, is to make comparison. Make comparison to previous times, make comparisons to make comparison, make comparison to previous times, make comparisons to other people, and when you make a comparison to somebody or something, you don’t allow to yourself to do it in a unique way because you compare it to the previous time and when you compare it, what you’re doing this time is exactly what has happened in the previous time. And if you’re comparing to someone else who is already a good speaker, you work against your confidence, because you see the success of that person but you don’t see the road to the success of that person, and that road has had challenges and issues and failures and things like this. So I would say to everybody who wants to improve his speaking skills, to speak with confidence, to be confident enough to ask for help.

Tim: 35:30

I really like that. You said it’s how important it is to ask for help because, again, nobody gets to be successful without help and without relationships. I mean because I believe that everything that we do, relationships are the key to that and having good relationships with people to be able to help each other get to wherever it is that you want to be. And you know in the past you and I have talked about, you know, the four different archetypes that you talk about in your training. How important is it to know or have an understanding of what those archetypes are in yourself and in other people?

Vesela: 36:13

Actually, this is very important when it comes to speaking with confidence, because the four archetypes the four archetypes speaks in a different way. For example, one of those is the sovereign, is the person who is very direct, he’s very. Sometimes he might be aggressive. He’s very proactive and he’s honest and open. Aggressive, he is very proactive and he is honest and open. He see things in white and for him the things are white and black. But the opposite archetype is a person who is, he’s like a magician. He likes to take lots of stories.

Vesela: 36:49

So people who are magicians, they they speak true stories and if you hear someone explain things through story, definitely he’s a magician. And, for example, people who are sovereigns, they don’t like too many details, they don’t like somebody to waste their time, they want to talk straight to the point, unlike magicians who like to explain many details. Where they’ve been, what has happened, it’s a long, long story. So imagine if you’re in a corporate world or somewhere else and one is a sovereign, the other is a magician and they don’t know about each other’s type. If I’m a sovereign, for example, and in a corporate world, when people are talking with so many details, they are not just get to the point. It’s very disturbing for me. I want to. I don’t have time. I want to talk up straight to the point and to get to the basic point, because you divert from the basic point and in public speaking it’s very important If you. Very often people have prepared for the public speak and they’re speaking in front of the public and they get to a story and they start thinking about something and from this story they go to another story, but this another story is a complete diversion from the main point for the public speak. So this is very often I notice it when I’m teaching public speaking and when I listen to people they just go to many directions which could be very disturbing for the audience.

Vesela: 38:33

And the other two archetypes is the warrior, the person who is again straight to the point, very strict, very direct, and the other person is the lover, the person who wants everybody to be happy, to please everybody, to please everybody in the audience. I’ve got a lady who was my client in public speaking and she was speaking. So when she was speaking, either in front of her team or in front of a broader public, she was concerned what everybody’s thinking, whether they’re happy, whether they’re not happy. So she’s over-caring People who are lovers. They’re over caring for other people, but when you are over caring, you don’t allow the other person to act and to be himself. When you’re over caring, you occupy his or her space.

Vesela: 39:29

So knowing about the four archetypes is key when it comes to public speaking, when we speak one-on-one, when we speak in front of a small group, when we speak in front of the audience. Because when you know what archetypes are you, you know what you can put at risk. For example, magicians can go into many stories and can waste their time in many stories and they would not be able to finish their speech properly. So they could be very direct and very one, two, three, four and people cannot feel the story and the magic in what they are talking about. So once you know what archetype are you are talking about.

Vesela: 40:21

So once you know what archetype are you, you can work on adopting the traits of the other archetypes, because every person has the four archetypes, but everyone has a predominant one. And when you know what is your predominant one, you can work adopting the traits of the other archetypes. And this is not only important for yourself, but it’s important. Once you know more about those archetypes, you’ll be able to understand much more better the person with whom you’re speaking with. So you automatically understand better the person with whom you’re speaking at this specific moment and you’ll be speaking with confidence. I can assure you that you will speak much more confidently than before.

Tim: 41:09

Yeah, it’s so important to know who again, to know who you are and how you communicate and how you think, but it’s also so important to understand the other people that you’re communicating with the audience and understand how they not only you know receive that information, but how they’re going to process it and then carry that information on down the road. And again, that comes with work and practice, just like everything else that we’ve talked about today. Yeah, yeah.

Vesela: 41:42

Actually the speaker has to be interested in the audience, why the audience is there, what they want to learn, why they came here.

Vesela: 41:57

So unless the speaker is interested, genuinely interested, in his audience, he will not be able to attract the audience. Very often the audience we have various types of people in the audience. We have people who don’t know about the topic we are talking about at all. There are people who know something about the topic and there are people who are very well aware of the topic. So we have to be able to satisfy the need of every one of those three groups.

Vesela: 42:32

So to be able to give basic information for those who don’t doesn’t know anything, to give more information for those who don’t doesn’t know anything, to give more information for those who know something and for those who are proficient. Let’s say like this we have to give even more, and that’s why knowing who is our audience is very important and to shift the focus from us to the audience. This is very important and very often people who are good speakers and they speak a lot and they become very confident and very self, high self-esteem on how they speak. They know that people listen to them, they lose the focus and sometimes they’re speaking to themselves. You have the feeling they speak to themselves, but they don’t speak to you Exactly.

Tim: 43:17

Exactly. I’m actually thinking of some people that do that now. But that’s great advice. Understands that? Again, there’s that happy medium where you know that you know the information but being humble enough to share it with, like you said, everybody in that audience so that everybody in the audience gets what they want out of the talk, the speech, the meeting, the interview, whatever situation or scenario that you’re in.

Vesela: 44:01

Yes, and this is another point, because sometimes you might do the best investigation in the beginning what is your audience? But at the end of the day, you have to be able to fill the audience. Yeah, you investigated it, but you’re exactly there and the very right time. You have to be able to fill the audience and to be able to change. This is all about good preparation and competence and practice, because in order to act accordingly and to change your mind or to change what to say in this very moment, you need to be very um experienced for this and very sensitive for this.

Tim: 44:39

And we’ve just come full circle. You know, talk about being able to adapt and change, and I want to fly, and, again, the only way that you can do that is through, you know, your preparation. Yeah, and your preparation and your practice before?

Vesela: 44:57

Yeah, true, and your preparation and your practice before that Exactly so, bessie.

Tim: 45:02

Where can people find you if they want to work with you?

Vesela: 45:06

Yeah, they can visit my website, which is wwwbesselamanganacom, or they can use my name, bessela Mangana, in all social media LinkedIn, facebook, instagram, youtube so, using my name, they can find me there. They can write me an email or write me a direct message and I will be happy to help them if they want to speak about themselves with more confidence.

Tim: 45:37

Well, veseli, thank you so much and I’ll put those links in the show notes for everybody. But I really do appreciate you take some time with us today and I know our audience is going to love this episode. So, again, thank you so much and we’ll talk to you soon.

Vesela: 45:50

Yeah, thank you very much for inviting me. It was a pleasure for me.

Tim: 45:54

Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom to join our growing community and register for the Formula for Public Speaking course. Always remember your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time, Take care.