From Firewalking to Fearless: Harriet Bratt on Leading with Love and Owning the Stage

Tim: 0:08

Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor, jury communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. I want to thank each and every one of you for your support. It truly means the world to me. Please visit timnewmanspeakscom to get your free ebook the top 21 challenges for public speakers and how to overcome them. Today’s guest is Harriet Bratt. She’s a powerhouse speaker and mentor on a mission to help ambitious entrepreneurs own the stage, elevate their income and make a serious impact, all while having a lot of fun along the way. Harriet, welcome to the show. I’m really appreciative of you being here and I think we’re going to have a good time.

Harriet: 0:51

I’m super excited. Thank you so much, tim. Thank you to all the listeners and speaking with confidence, what a topic, what an insightful, valuable information for people, and I just want to say thank you for being on this podcast and everything that you are doing with Speaking With Confidence.

Tim: 1:07

Harry, thank you so much. I really appreciate you saying that and you know, as you can see, I’m not in my normal studio, I’m traveling and visiting grandkids. But I did not want to put this off, primarily because anytime that unless for the listener, anytime you can hear Harriet speak, I would suggest that you go do it. She is a fireball, she always brings it and what I really like about it is, you know, in the introduction, she does it while having fun and you know, Harriet, for me that’s part of it as well, because we spend so much of our life, you know, in serious, this serious, that we got to learn to have some fun with this.

Harriet: 1:48

Absolutely. I think it’s so important and I don’t know about anybody listening or yourself, tim, but for me you know that playfulness, that having fun, having fun in doing what you do, but also taking time to do fun things. I think it’s so easy to forget that as we grow up having fun in doing what you do, but also taking time to do fun things. I think it’s so easy to forget that as we grow up and it happens at different ages for different people but it’s so easy to get caught up in the rat race, in the hamster wheel, you know whatever terminology you want to use but it’s so easy to get caught up in seriously doing, doing, doing rather than actually taking that time to enjoy and have fun with what we’re doing. So I think that’s a great highlight and it’s really important.

Tim: 2:29

Yeah, it really is. And one of the things that really strikes me about some of the stuff that you do is the whole firewalk, and I’ve talked to people that have done it before and they say you have to do it, you have to do it, you have to do it. And I’m like I don’t know, man, that’s kind of pushing for me. So tell us about the firewalk and how you go about the process of coaching people to let go, to be able to do something like that.

Harriet: 3:00

Absolutely, I think, and I love your openness in sharing that no-transcript.

Tim: 3:25

That’s it that takes care of it, right there.

Harriet: 3:26

Yeah, right, but I think that’s the point. And you know, firewalking it’s not new. Firewalking’s been done for thousands of years. But it was a gentleman over in the US, actually in California, tolly Buchan and his wife Peggy Dillon, that brought it into the Western world as more of an experiential breakthrough.

Harriet: 3:47

Now, if we just pause for a second and you think in life, how many times fear shows up? You know you quit your job as a teacher to start your own business. I’m sure there was some fear, some challenges, some uncertainty. We have to have difficult conversations with loved ones, with family, with bosses asking a boss for a pay rise, telling a boss that you’re leaving to do something else you know there’s so many different examples. We could do a whole podcast on examples of when fear shows up.

Harriet: 4:17

So the idea with the fire is putting yourself in that intense environment where fear will show up. I don’t care who you are, where you’re from, when you stand in front of that fire, particularly for the first time fear shows up. But when we are able to feel I think it was Susan Jeffries that wrote that amazing book feel the fear and do it anyway. Feel the fear and walk the fire. When we feel that fear and we make a conscious choice and of course, we spend a few hours before the fire walk with sequenced activities and exercises that support someone, to be able to make that choice in spite of fear.

Harriet: 4:55

So when you stand in front of that fire and you start trembling and the fear shows up, but you’re able to take that breath, look after your psychology and your physiology and make a conscious choice to walk, that celebration, that feeling, when you’ve crossed that fire, you can’t take that away right. It’s like an elastic band when you pull it so far, it will never go back to exactly the same size because it’s been stretched, because it’s expanded. So now we take that same feeling back into our everyday life. And when fear shows up, you know, oh, I need to have a difficult conversation with my partner. I’m not sure how they’re going to take what I want to share with them. I am asking a customer for a sale. I’m walking into a bar and asking someone out on a date.

Tim: 5:38

You know, whatever it, is Whatever, it is right yeah exactly.

Harriet: 5:40

We can feel the fear and walk the fire. Feel the fear and show up anyway.

Tim: 5:58

So, exactly, we can feel the fear and walk the fire, feel the fear and show up anyway. So that’s the premise behind it, and you’ve done something that was, at least from my perspective, terrifying to begin with, and you’ve gone through it and you’ve accomplished it, and you achieved that goal. What’s it like? You know talking to these people after they’ve done that.

Harriet: 6:19

I’d love you know if we were here, live, or if we were in front of an audience. I’d ask people to start guessing now, like how you feel elation, satisfaction, excitement, enthusiasm, but on a much deeper level, understanding of your true capability, connecting the dots, that you can feel that fear and you have a choice in that moment. Do you let the niggling voice of oh, I don’t think I could do this like take over, or do you step into that power, do you make that choice that serves you, even though it’s scary and for many, you know, different vocabulary will come up, different feelings, different messages. It’s such an individual experience, but as a general, but as a general, everybody feels grateful, feels accomplished, feels like they have achieved something they did not think was possible before. They did it, and that’s an incredible feeling.

Tim: 7:15

And you know I’m guessing that you know there’s to be able to, to do, to do that. If there’s got to be a great deal of introspection right to to understand, to do that, if there’s got to be some a great deal of introspection right to to understand who you are and whatever, because our fears are come from many different areas and they they affect each of us individually differently. But to truly get to what to that, it takes some introspection, um, to be able to address that and then overcome it. We can’t say this is why somebody else fears it, so that’s why I fear it, and it’ll be easy to overcome. You really have to get down deep inside of yourself and figure that out.

Harriet: 7:54

Exactly and you really hit the nail on the head there. Beautiful insight. And that’s one of the reasons I love whether it’s firewalking or glasswalking or the arrow break I just love experiential breakthroughs. And don’t get me wrong, I think coaching, mentoring, therapy, hypnotherapy there are so many different modalities and they all have their place. I’m not here to knock any of them and, as you just said, most importantly, people need to find what works for them and I particularly think having a coach or a mentor with you on a journey is immensely powerful. But what I love about the experiential breakthroughs is what you’ve just said.

Harriet: 8:28

You feel it yourself. You have that experience. It’s not externally being told, it’s not someone cheering you on, although everybody celebrates when you’ve walked. You feel that and therefore you can’t take it away. Once you’ve hit that level of consciousness, once you felt that knowing about yourself, if you continue in the old pattern, it just leads to discomfort. It allows you a space to step into the truer version, the more authentic version. These have all become buzzwords these days, but it’s true that the real core of who you are, yeah, and you know, just take that one step further.

Tim: 9:07

You know, I know that there’s days for me, right At the end of the day, I, I, I go back, I do a lot of introspection, thinking you know, what did I do today? What’d I do? What’d I do? Well, what do I need to prove on? What did I put off, what have you? And I know there are days that I look back and say you know what? There was something holding me back from doing this and I didn’t do it. And damn it, tim, just effing do it. Just get up in the morning and just do it. Do you ever have those days? And how do you coach people through that? Because, again, I think it’s also important to understand that we’re not perfect.

Harriet: 9:51

We’re going to make mistakes and we have to give ourselves a certain amount of grace, but we still have to do it Absolutely. I, I completely agree. I’d love to sit here and say no, I never get that face. I’m always on top floor, the fire is burning. No, you know, like you said and I, I, that’s part of being a human and I I don’t use this term a lot myself, but I think often people talk about toxic positivity and I have to say that I used to be in that camp and I wouldn’t allow myself to feel all of those different emotions and I was that person that almost pretended everything was okay, it’s going to be fine, let’s crack on, let’s do it, let’s do it.

Harriet: 10:22

And ultimately it never served me. In fact, it just led to sort of burnout and a lack of emotional management. But I think, as you say, there’s a beautiful balance between knowing yourself and knowing when you’re just having an off day and using certain tools. Maybe it’s journaling, maybe it’s a conversation with an empowered friend, coach or mentor. It’s a conversation with an empowered friend, coach or mentor. Maybe it’s music. Music’s a massive one for me If I’m feeling a little bit lazy, a little bit groggy, maybe, if I’m procrastinating, if I put some of my favorite songs on especially if they’re my stage songs instantly, that changes my state. Music is an amazing way of changing both your physiology and your emotional state. So you could have certain tools that, if you’re having one of those days, you use them and, as Tim says, you just crack on with it, get on with it. But I also think that something we miss a lot and, tim, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this is absolutely.

Harriet: 11:17

There are days where I know I’m just being lazy and a good kick up the gets me going again.

Harriet: 11:22

But there’s also times where perhaps there is something really challenging going on. Perhaps I am ill or I’ve got an injury on my body, or perhaps I’m really just genuinely not having a great day, and I would really encourage people never to force themselves back into action in those moments. I’m also not someone that’s saying go and get ice cream Doritos, sit on the sofa and have a pity party for two weeks. You know work on reducing your recovery period, but sometimes you just need to let yourself have that space, and maybe it’s a hug with your grandkids, maybe it’s going out for a walk in nature, maybe it’s having a shower, maybe it’s dancing for half an hour, but just doing something for a period of time that enables you to change your state, because I don’t agree with just forcing ourselves to do something in a negative state of mind. I believe in shifting that state, coming back to some sort of calm, some sort of content, some sort of normal-ish, to then action. Put yourself back into action again. Does that make sense, tim?

Tim: 12:24

100% agree with you, because if you continue to force yourself to do something, number one, it’s not going to be done well, there’s going to be mistakes, you’re going to come back and you’re going to be critical of it and then you’re going to have to redo it anyway. It’s so much better to just say you know what, move on, like you said, move on to something else to you know. Just just say you know what, move on, like you said, move on to something else, go, go, do something. Clear your head. Even it’s for for the day. You know what, at noon it’s, it’s I got all kinds of other things going on up up in here and, for whatever reason, today’s not the day for me to do this.

Tim: 12:59

Let’s go clear that and that way, when I come back, I’m fresh and I can truly do the things that need to be done and it’s everything’s going to be better. You know that your interpersonal relationships are going to be better because you know what. You’re going to be angry or upset or whatever. So take the time that we need. And you know, that’s something that I’ve learned, tim, today and obviously, if we’re not growing as we get older, we’re doing it wrong, right, tim? Today is very different than the Tim five years ago, five years before that, five years before that, and what we’ve learned, and or what I’ve learned, and how to approach things Tim 20 years ago would not know this Tim at all and I would say, for the most part, that’s a, that’s a good thing.

Harriet: 13:51

In terms of having that space to grow and keep learning.

Tim: 13:55

And learning and giving myself grace and giving others grace, because you know, if I was always let me back up for a second you as an individual cannot have expectations of others. I mean you can if you want. I mean that’s up to you. If you want to have expectations of others, go ahead. Let me know how that works out for you. And that’s one of the things that I’ve learned. Okay, ok, I always expected people to put forth the effort and the passion into what they were doing at the same level that I was doing it, and if you didn’t look out and I was the judge and jury of whether you were doing what you were supposed to do or not, and so that that that to me, is a is a very good thing. That that, that that I’ve learned.

Harriet: 14:47

Um, and you know, yeah, so I was just going to say I think that’s a phenomenal thing for anybody listening at the moment that that has that moment. Um, it does take time, it does take a shift. I really resonate with what Tim was saying. I was also that person that just had really high expectations, high high standards on what I was doing and therefore what I expected others to do too. And yeah, that’s just the truth. You cannot control what somebody else does. You can only choose how you respond to it, and if you constantly try and live by that expectation, then you’re going to find yourself in a state of disappointment a lot. I can really relate to that, tim. I think it’s a beautiful share.

Tim: 15:36

And so that’s so. I still have the expectation myself. I still have that expectation that I’m going to produce, that I’m still going to have those high standards, and I hope that you do, and if you don’t, that’s fine, we move on and that’s that. But you know that’s kind of a different discussion, you know. So, number one give yourself grace, give others grace, because, again, we don’t necessarily know what’s going on in their lives either, and if we show them caring and support, then we can better help them get over whatever it is. Help them, give them the tools that they need, whatever it is that they need to be successful, because that’s, in my view, that’s why we’re here. I’m here to help you, or you or whoever it is, be successful and get what you want out of your life and out of your career, out of your personal relationships.

Harriet: 16:30

And I can really see, from the moment we had our very first conversation, your passion and embodiment of that. So again, I just want to acknowledge you and your work, tim. It’s outstanding.

Tim: 16:43

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. You know I’ve got ADHD, really, really bad, and I mean and I mean it’s bad. And so you know I’ve learned to, I’ve learned some coping mechanisms that you know I wish I had when I was younger. Right, you know, when I was younger it was oh he just he’s hyper, he doesn’t know how to sit down and listen. And you know, I learned some of these coping mechanisms as an adult and again, I wish I had when I was younger. But how, for you, has living with ADHD influenced your journey as a speaker and entrepreneur? Because it’s, at least for me, it’s tough sometimes, you know, like I can’t work outside at all. I mean, if I go outside to work, forget it, day’s done.

Harriet: 17:48

I’m inside shades, know, like I can’t work outside at all. I mean, if I go outside to work, forget it, day’s done. I’m inside shades, drawn dark, interesting. Interesting For those that don’t know I also have ADHD. I often joke and say I’m the.

Harriet: 17:56

Harriet in the ADHD um, but it’s again. We’ve said this a couple of times, you know it’s really finding what works for you, because I’m the opposite if it’s a nice day outside and I’m inside, I will spend the entire time wanting to be out. So we’ve actually built a space with a shelter that goes over the the computer, so the laptop can be in the shade but I can still see in the sun. And for me that was an absolute game changer and I actually sat and worked rather than just making any excuse I could to get outside. It’s finding what works for us, but I think for me, you know particularly you said about as a speaker and an entrepreneur.

Harriet: 18:34

Well, I had my diagnosis at a very, very young age and for me I always say that it was never the diagnosis, it was never having ADHD. It was the way in which people approached me, and even my own parents, and I understand it came from a space of love, it came from a space of them wanting the best for me. But you know, as soon as I was told I had ADHD, everything changed very quickly and my usual sort of Harriet energetic bursts that before were almost laughed about, joked about, cheered on, suddenly became go and take your tablets, stop showing off, stop seeking attention. You can’t concentrate, you know. All of these statements were suddenly being thrown at me. So that’s actually what I found really difficult.

Harriet: 19:22

So I think before I learned to manage or understand how having ADHD can serve me, but also how it can hold me back, especially as an entrepreneur, I actually needed to learn and understand my feeling towards having ADHD and my choice in how I was going to show up, not having everybody tell me what I needed to do and more often than not it was just negative statements.

Harriet: 19:46

No solutions, just negative statements. So by the time I started my own business, I’d really started to see ADHD as a superpower and I see the areas it can hold me back. I see the areas that I can get very easily distracted and be running in the complete opposite direction than my goal. But, as you say, in time I just learned to do certain things. If I’m doing my admin or accounts, I’m at a standing desk and I’ve got like music on in the background. If I’m doing content or recording, I will record for 45 minutes and then I’ll take 15 minutes to go do something else, put some music on and then come back to record again. So I found different ways that it can work for me, but I’m still very aware that I need those particular methods to support me in staying focused.

Tim: 20:34

Yeah, you know it’s. It’s funny that you know how we, you know. This is just an example of how different people approach it different ways. If I, if again, if I’m outside here the birds chirp or see a rabbit, yeah there goes, tim chasing a rabbit, you know. Or, or somebody, or somebody walks by, I’ll start talking to them, or or whatever. And then you know an hour later, man, I didn’t get, I didn’t get anything done. And then here comes that, that negative self-talk, right, all because I didn’t, you know, I didn’t do the things that I know I should be doing to to stop those things from happening.

Tim: 21:07

But but it’s, it’s so important to you know we can take the medication and and, yes, it helps, but we also have to know who we are and what makes us tick and and put ourselves. Whether you have ADHD, add or whatever, um, you, if you don’t have any of that stuff, we still have to have the, the strategy, strategies and techniques to put ourselves in position. That is going to put us in to be successful. That’s going to make us successful. It doesn’t matter If, even if you don’t have those things, you know what, what’s, how do you work the best? You know, how do you, you know, develop the thoughts? How do you, how do you produce the best work product or the best conversations with, with your, your, your partners or, you know, your friendships and those types of things? And I think it’s. I just really think that it’s a lost art, because people don’t necessarily think about who they are and how they tick, and I keep coming back to that. But to me that’s what it comes down to.

Harriet: 22:09

I completely agree and I love that you keep coming back to it, because I do believe that is where it all begins. You know, when we look at our lives, no matter who you are, you are the dot in every. You’re the center of every area of your life, whether it’s your romantic relationships, your family, your work, your health, your business. Everything starts from you. And I completely agree, you know whether you’re neurodiverse, whether you’re not I like to talk a bit of it in personality traits.

Harriet: 22:36

I think that’s less labeling for people, but either way, it is understanding yourself and there are certain you know whether it’s autism, adhd, dyslexia there are certain terms that have a greater depth of research, information that you can go in and read and research and get to know yourself more. But ultimately, as you just said, Tim, everybody has strengths and areas of improvement. Everybody has these light, magical, amazing qualities about themselves and everybody has the doubt, the fear, the procrastination, the disempowered habits, whatever that might be. We all have that as human beings. So again, I completely agree with you and I’d love us to maybe even tap into different ways to do that Because again, I think you hear that so often get to know yourself, sit with your feelings, but what does that really mean and what does that really look like Like for you, tim? How did you really connect with what works for you and who you are?

Tim: 23:40

Well, I, you know, I had a lot of help, just a lot of professional help, a lot of non-professional help, and one of the things that I did is I asked the people in my inner circle what they notice. You know, how do they see me, how do they see? You know, when do they see that I’ve produced the best? And you know, a lot of times they came at, came back with when it’s when you’re doing this, it’s when you’re doing this, it’s when you’re doing this. And I said, okay, that that that makes a lot of sense because I see it. And I said, okay, that makes a lot of sense because I see it. And so you know, what we see in ourselves is one thing, but what others in our inner circle see is something very different. Because, again, we have our talk and we say we’re good at this, when we may not necessarily be good, we may like doing it, but we may not be good at it, and that’s something different that we can talk about later. But when are we producing and when are we the most effective? It’s when we’re doing these things, and I think we see it’s our inner circle that sees that better than us, and that’s really kind of how I started, because, you know, when I started my doctoral program and nobody really knows this, so this is going to be the first time coming out.

Tim: 25:00

My wife knows I was never truly taught how to read. I figured it out on my own right. So I had gone through an undergraduate degree never being taught how to read, finished a master’s degree, never being taught how to read. I mean I could read, but I never being taught how to read, finished a master’s degree, never being taught how to read. I mean I could read, but I was never taught how to read. There’s a difference there, right? And what I found.

Tim: 25:24

You know, when I started the doctoral program, I went to my wife I said, look, I’m falling behind and I can’t figure it out. I don’t know why. I don’t know why. And that was when I was diagnosed with ADHD as I was going through my doctoral program, and that’s when I truly learned how to how to read. And you know when that happened, man, the light bulb, like that, and I went forward so quickly. And that’s why I say you know, I really wish that I had learned some of these things when I was younger. But think about that 30 years old and again, I don’t want that. I couldn’t read. There’s a difference, right? So when I was reading every single word and I would have to read a sentence four or five times, as opposed to, you know, just reading and understanding. So that for me was a light bulb moment.

Harriet: 26:21

Yeah, I can very much imagine that, and again, though, I think your approach and your attitude and the way you’ve just shared that.

Harriet: 26:31

You know, I’ve met a lot of people or not a lot, but certainly a few people that haven’t been able to read and that’s become their story I can’t read, and you’ve taken something that you weren’t taught but you clearly knew or wanted to be able to. You knew it was important, knew it could benefit you, whatever your driving force was for doing it, and you’ve taught yourself, and I think that that’s such a powerful and also vulnerable share of yours. You know, reading is something that we think of as sort of that everyday skill, and I think people take it for granted that they can do it, but actually, if you’ve never been taught it or you don’t know how to, then really it can. It can affect your life in a huge way, and I just want to honor your approach and your your attitude in that, and I think there’s a big lesson for listeners. You know, just because you weren’t taught something doesn’t mean you can’t find a way to do that for yourself.

Tim: 27:26

Yeah, and, and you know I don’t want I’m not throwing anybody under the bus but I think a lot of it had to do when I was younger, having ADHD. It wasn’t, it was Tim can’t sit down and learn there was there and so there was no. You know, we didn’t have the tools that back then that we have today to to understand certain things and um and and it’s. And again, it’s okay. Yeah, there’s, it’s. Just figure out who you are. Lean into it, because you know, it doesn’t matter how many billion people on this earth, we all have our thing. Everybody has has their thing or things, or multiple things, whatever it is, but we all have that thing that makes us who we are. Lean it, it’s okay.

Tim: 28:14

You know, I had a conversation. I had a conversation yesterday with with a, with a lady, and uh, we, you know, we were doing the pre-interview, like like you and I had done, and she said oh, I hope this isn’t the interview. I don’t have makeup on, I don’t look good. I said. I said, maybe you look, you look beautiful. I said, you know it. I mean, look at me, this is, this is just my face, I’m not putting makeup on anyway. And she said well, you know, females have a different expectation and I said, well, that’s part of the problem. That’s part of the problem. You know, we put so much value on what other people think of us.

Tim: 28:55

If we just started to. You know, I just met, I just met you. Why would you care if you, I think, if you got makeup on, if I think you’re pretty or beautiful, whatever, and I think I think you’re, I think you are great, just however you are, and just own it and come with that, and people, people are craving that authenticity and that, that, that humanness. That’s just what I think, anyway, and and and I think we as a society need to get to, to to get some hold on that idea of why do we, why do I care what somebody else thinks, what I look like, what I’m wearing, what have you? It doesn’t make, it doesn’t make any difference on anything anyway.

Harriet: 29:44

It’s so true and I think it’s a nice almost sort round to we spoke earlier about. Everybody has different fears, everybody has different things, and fear of judgment was a massive one of mine. And I laugh sometimes now when I get dressed and I put so much thought into my outfit and then I walk out and see everybody walking around wearing totally different outfits and I’m not there thinking, oh, shouldn’t wear that, don’t do that, we’re just out enjoying the day. So I think you’re right, we can sort of allow ourselves to get consumed by a fear of judgment, a fear of rejection, perfection, trying to be right all the time, whatever it might be. And I think this couples nicely into what we started this wonderful conversation with, is also that element of bringing the fun back. You know I haven’t quite figured out how I’m speaking about this, from live or virtual stages, so you’ve got it fresh from me right now here, tim. But I think that there’s almost and again I have to be careful how I word this, but there’s almost a disempowerment if you become too addicted to personal development. Now, let me just back that up a little bit, because I am obsessed with personal development and I think it is absolutely can benefit and bring monumental changes, fulfillment, happiness to everybody. That takes the time to whatever language you want to use, work on yourself, develop yourself, expand yourself. So I’m absolutely in that camp.

Harriet: 31:12

But what I’ve started to see and what I went through in a massive way myself you know every expert comes from a different angle. Right, you need to meditate, you need to journal, you need to exercise, you need to visualize, you need to read, you need to listen, you need to make sure you’re not using plastic bottles. You need to drink water, but not fizzy water, normal water. Right, I could just keep listening. Brush your teeth. All of all of these, these different things in different areas, whether it’s for the environment, whether it’s for yourself, whether it’s for your health, whether it’s for your family, your business. There’s so many things that we can be doing, and I don’t know about anybody else, but I actually found I was starting to get more stressed and almost put myself down, self-sabotage myself in a bigger way, because I became so obsessed with needing to be the person that did all of those things and I think it’s just remembering that where is the area of most importance?

Harriet: 32:08

Like you spoke to that lady yesterday that had a fear of judgment. You know that’s showing up in her everyday life. Focus in that area right now. I think having that conversation with you was probably a real light bulb, insightful moment for her. And if she took that moment to reflect, as we spoke about earlier, to go inside and think about what you’ve just shared and, slowly but surely, keep seeding that ease of letting it go, of not worrying what other people think, of understanding that you’ll naturally care what some people think, but who are you giving the mic to? Whose opinion are you really listening to? And if we just focus in like a one or two particular areas of our life at a time and just remember to enjoy that process rather than becoming so consumed and trying to get everything right all the time, I think you’ll find that your progression is actually faster. But it’s also and this is more meaningful so much more enjoyable and so much more easy to continue with if you do it that way. What are your thoughts on that, tim?

Tim: 33:11

I 100% agree with everything that you just said, and, as I’m listening to you, I’m thinking, you know, for you and my perspective, right, I love your voice, I love it and the power that you have when you speak. It’s I mean not just here, but you know, when you’re on stage, or you know the the things that I’ve seen you say, that it, it, it. For me it’s overwhelming. I mean, you’ve, you’ve got such power, and you’ve obviously developed that, as you know, as your career has gone on, but there’s, you’ve you’ve probably always had that in you, right? I mean, I would think, I would think that, because there’s I mean it again I love there there’s just something, something that’s there, and how did you, how did you develop that, though? Was that something that was encouraged? Was that something that that you that you know again, people that you care about said you know, harriet, you’ve got something here.

Harriet: 34:16

Being honest, I think when I was younger, I was told that I was either going to be a famous actress, the prime minister, or I was going to run a brothel.

Tim: 34:28

You know, harriet, I’m not sure which one’s worse, which one’s better um.

Harriet: 34:35

So yeah, I had an interesting uh projection there of what I’d become, but I think suffice to say, especially when it came, I think everyone thought I was going to be on stage, like even from a youngster. I loved, loved, performing, singing, telling stories to the group. So I think it was very obvious that I was going to be on stage. But nobody, at least of all myself, had any idea that it would be as a as a public speaker, and in fact my family and myself had absolutely no idea what this, this world oh no right, you know, were you the same oh yeah, yeah, they still don’t.

Tim: 35:15

Um, I’m not sure I’m, I don’t say I’m not sure I do, but but you know, they definitely don’t I’m still heavily learning, but I now understand a little bit more.

Harriet: 35:24

And again, I think this is really important, because sometimes you know, if people say, I want to become an international speaker or I want to become an author, whatever it might be, sometimes you get resistance from loved ones and from family members oh, I don’t think you can do that. Oh, no, that’s not a great career and it doesn’t mean it’s true, it just means they don’t have experience in it. So I would ask everyone just to pause and again, think for yourself, but also go to someone who’s doing the thing that you want to do and have a conversation with them, because it is possible. But it might be that you need certain insights, certain know-how, certain skill, et cetera, et cetera, and really, for me, that’s what it was. That was the original question, tim, you know.

Harriet: 36:05

Did you know that you were going to become that? And then, how did you? Well, I was running a care home. I was in a completely different world and I got to that point, you know, I think, like many. One day I was just sitting at my desk and I this the tears and I mean like ugly tears mascara down my face, snot dripping out my nose like smoothing tears and I just realized enough is enough.

Harriet: 36:32

I can’t do this anymore. I’m not enjoying it, I’m not happy, I don’t feel valued. Everything is a paperwork tick box system rather than true person centered care. And I just had enough. So I actually saw a little advert that said do you want more positivity, do you want more flexibility, do you want to be your own boss? And I just said yes. I was the most naive Tasmanian devil running a million miles towards something that I had no idea what it was. I just knew it felt good and I needed to get away from what I was currently doing, and that was actually for network marketing, but of course, within network marketing. I then found public speaking, I found personal development and I just absolutely committed myself to events, programs, mentors, courses that allowed me to develop the skill. So I would say, yes, I was a natural speaker, but also now I’m a very skillful speaker. When you put talent and work, effort, energy together, that’s when you become an unstoppable and impactful speaker.

Tim: 37:32

Yeah, and I’m glad you said that, because to be good at anything it takes work. It’s not a you know, at least for most people it takes work. It’s not something that’s just going to happen overnight. You may have some talent to it, but to be good at it it takes work. It takes practice, talent to it, but to be good at it.

Tim: 37:51

It takes work, it takes practice, and you know, that’s that, I think, is also something that that, especially from the younger professional perspective, they need to to understand and embrace that just because you don’t get it the first or second time doesn’t mean you should quit. It means you should lean into it. It means you should try and and practice more or or find a different way to go about doing it. Don’t quit.

Harriet: 38:14

Work harder. Yes, say it louder for the people at the back. You pick up your phone and you can have nearly anything delivered to you either the same day or the next day, or certainly within a short amount of time. You can order anything you want, you can connect, you can learn, you can do so much instantly from the devices that we have around us that I think sometimes, especially younger generations, forget the process, forget the steps, and I know it’s a little bit cliche, but I’m going to say it loudly and proudly yes, set that goal. Yes, have that vision. Yes, have that mountaintop achievement that you’re excited to do, but please immerse yourself in the process, step by step, the journey up the mountain, the views, the rivers that you cross, the people that you meet, whatever it might be. Just hold that vision, but immerse yourself in the day-to-day steps and the day-to-day process.

Tim: 39:15

Yeah, it’s so important and, and you said, the people that you meet, I say I think it’s. You know, we’re so in in technology is so ingrained in everything that we do. And I had this conversation yesterday with that same same lady. You know, since I haven’t been teaching, I miss that interpersonal relationship. I mean I do five or six of zoom calls or these types of things a day, which is great. I’m talking to people and I’m meeting people. You know it’s great.

Tim: 39:47

But I miss shaking somebody’s hand, I miss, I miss sitting down, having a coffee or having lunch or breakfast, and you know those types of conversations and what we have to understand that it doesn’t matter what industry you get into, it’s people, it’s relationships, it’s the connections AI, this AI that it’s all good, it’s all well, but at the end of the day, it’s still. It’s the connections AI, this AI that it’s all good, it’s all well, but at the end of the day, it’s still going to be about people, it’s still going to be about the relationships, it’s still going to be about those personal connections and we cannot forget about that.

Harriet: 40:21

I so so agree, and there’s an expression that I think is really true it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. But I think if you can couple the two, then, uh yes, you’re onto a winning path, but again, that’s a process in itself. As you say um, I’m sure you’re the same, tim. You know you open your, your Facebook or your Instagram and you are bombarded with cold messages of people pitching, but then you also are. You also have people that open a conversation, that start a dialogue and allow a space for a relationship to build. And I’ve never seen results or instant shifts from meeting somebody in one moment and having that first initial conversation, but in time, through building relationships, I’ve seen doors open in places I would have thought were impossible. So I think relationships are so important, but it’s bringing value, love, patience and what you said earlier no expectation to the meeting.

Tim: 41:25

Right and that’s what works for me. And you know, I think if you don’t have to, everybody has their own way of doing things. But understand that it’s relationships, it doesn’t really matter. And you know you use the term. I believe it’s lead with love. What does that mean for you?

Harriet: 41:49

What does that mean for you? So Lead With Love is actually our logo and for people watching, not listening, I’m trying to show a little. I’ve got it tattooed on a reminder, but it’s also our logo. So it’s a heart with a little arrow at the bottom pointing into the heart. And, essentially, lead With Love is a breakdown of our entire conversation.

Harriet: 42:09

So, first of all, it starts with yourself. Lead with love for you. You know, as we said earlier, you’re the number one in every single area of your life. If you can give yourself that love for all of you Listeners, make sure you heard that All of you, not just the wonderful, amazing in the spotlight parts, but all of you, the bits that make mistakes, the bits that mess up, the bits that are still learning. If you can lead with love for all of who you are and keep expanding, then of course that will naturally ripple out. And then the obvious lead with love for your family, for your friends, for your local community, for your customers, for your team, for whoever you meet in the streets. And then, of course, at the bigger level, lead with love from your stages, lead with love wherever you are, lead with love for our environment, for humanity, for the universe. So it kind of starts with an introspective view, but it’s really just walking and leading and especially speaking with love, kindness and compassion for all.

Tim: 43:08

Yeah, that’s amazing and I really like that. It’s not just from a business perspective and I think we get so caught up in that. You know, even from the coaching business and self-development business, like you said, that we forget about some of the most important parts. To me, the most important part of our life is our personal life. It’s our personal relationships, it’s our, you know, our friend group, our spouse, our family. You know, those types of things are way more important, at least from my perspective, than than the business side. Now, I get it, I understand there, you got to have both. But if we’re not happy in one, we’re not going to be happy in the other and we can be happy at home and not happy at work.

Harriet: 44:03

But it’s very rare to be happy at work if we’re not happy at home. It’s so true, and that’s one of our most meaningful connections and spaces, isn’t it? So it’s immensely important and I think sometimes it’s especially that with, like family and friends, sometimes that’s the bit that gets missed, and I’m really talking about in a healthy manner. I’m not talking about people that just say yes to everything and people please and are always doing for others. I really mean leading in that example, being able to say no, being able to, to set boundaries, but also, of course, leading with love and sometimes having those tougher conversations. We talk about speaking with confidence.

Harriet: 44:40

That’s not just from live and virtual stages, that’s in your everyday life, and I really believe some of the conversations I’ve had with my husband if we hadn’t had them, I believe it would have led down a totally different path and we might not have been together. But because we led with love for ourselves, understood who we were and what we wanted, and then were able to communicate that with love and understanding to each other, without expectation, without trying to control, just an open conversation, it’s completely shifted the dynamic that we have in our marriage and I believe that we’re much happier because of our communication and being able to speak up. So it’s truly important, and don’t just think about doing it for you or doing it for your business. Do it for those around you.

Tim: 45:23

Around you Exactly. You know it’s so important. And you know another example I tell people I don’t want, yes, people around me, I want people that are going to shoot me straight. And you know, as I was driving up it’s, it’s about a 12 hour drive from where I live to to see the kids. That’s the time when I I spent a lot of time on the phone because I can talk and drive and it’s not taking away from some other things.

Tim: 45:52

And I was talking to my best friend and he’s in the process of he’s got a business. He’s still working the business, but he’s not sure if he wants to sell it or if he wants to branch off. So we’ve been having those conversations and I told him one of the things that he was doing. I said, dude, that’s, that’s, that’s a horrible idea, that’s not a good idea. Don’t do that. And I told him, I asked him why he was thinking it and I told him why it wasn’t a good idea.

Tim: 46:23

And he was so thankful because everybody else has been telling him it’s. It was a good idea to do. When it would have been, without looking at from the perspective that I gave him, it would have been a disaster. So you know you’ve got to have people in your inner circle that are willing to shoot you straight and say look, dude, you’re doing it wrong, you messed up over here. You need to need to go make amends, um, or or whatever. It’s okay to have those people in your life that’s important to have those people in your life.

Tim: 46:55

It really is so I completely agree.

Harriet: 46:59

Sounds like you’re.

Tim: 46:59

You’re a good friend to him in that moment well, I, I try, and you know he’s, he’s definitely done the same for me, and you know, as of others, and and just like you said in your marriage, you know what I love my wife dearly, but I don’t want her to just agree and not. I mean, that doesn’t serve anybody, because all that does is build resentment, you know. But it really builds resentment on both sides because, okay, you’re just going to agree with everything I say I, you know, that’s it. No discussion, no, nothing. I can do whatever I want. That’s, that’s not, that’s not life.

Harriet: 47:35

So you, know, and often if they are just agreeing with everything. It’s, I mean, I’m sure that couples or I would hope that couples can agree on a lot. But you’re right, we’re two different human beings existing in the same space, so naturally there’s going to be differences, different opinions, different thoughts. So, yes, I do believe it’s really important to to voice those and actually I, I think you can see, sometimes you know, I’ve worked with with leaders that I I respect, that I admire, but once I’ve been with them for a certain amount of time, I can sort of see you’ve never been challenged, you always get your own way. And it’s interesting the pitfalls that we can fall into by always needing to be the one that’s right or by not enjoying being challenged by others. And actually being challenged, as long as you can stay calm, understanding and receive it, can be one of the most powerful accelerations within your journey.

Tim: 48:31

Exactly, exactly. So part of that requires everybody put their ego aside.

Harriet: 48:44

And that is definitely easier said than done.

Tim: 48:47

Way easier said than done. But again, if you, I think, if you approach it, you know, from the lead with love idea, it makes it a lot easier because it’s you know. I explain it. It’s not about me, you know, it’s about the collective. What’s best for everybody, what’s best for the family, what’s best for the relationship, what’s best for the family, what’s best for the relationship, what’s best for the business, what’s best for the team, whatever it is? You know, sometimes it may be what’s best for you, but sometimes it’s not and you’ve got to be okay with that.

Harriet: 49:19

Yeah, yeah, and I think it’s being able to choose. You know, you and I both speak about speaking up, sharing, speaking up with confidence, saying what’s on your mind, and maybe this is another podcast for another time. But I think the best speakers and the best communicators are also the ones that know when not to speak, Exactly when to just listen. And you know, again, it’s a common quote, but choosing your battles and I was somebody, especially with my feistiness, my fire inside. You know I needed to get my opinion out and I needed people to hear me. I needed people to know what’s wrong, what’s right, and it wasn’t even necessarily what was wrong or right, it was just in my opinion.

Harriet: 50:01

So you know, you said about the lead with love. It’s no coincidence that it’s there on my wrist and it’s very much a tangible tool for me now that I look at it. I place my thumb on it If someone’s saying something or I’m in a disagreement, but it’s not. I don’t need to be involved in this battle, or they’re not looking for support. They don’t want my feedback in the moment. Instead of trying to have that fight, instead of forcing we spoke earlier about the difference between forcing and allowing, or forcing and choosing to do something. You know, I found that so often now in life. I’m able just to take that breath, sit back and just be and use my energy in focuses where it matters, where it serves, where it’s more helpful, and to not spend the next day or two days going oh my God, I can’t believe they said this, they did that, but actually just just putting your energy into into something that serves in the moment. So, yes, speak up, but also allow yourself to not need to speak up all the time.

Tim: 50:58

Exactly Well, harry, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Where can people find with you and connect with you and and and work with you?

Harriet: 51:06

I am on all the socials, so Instagram, facebook I invite you to find me, harriet Bratt, drop into my inbox, share an insight that you’ve taken from this podcast or ask any questions. Just connect with me. And, of course, my website is Harriet Bratt dot com, where there is also a free masterclass on mastering the five pillars of public speaking. And, tim, I just want to say thank you, thank you for a wonderful conversation. Thank you to all of your speaking and, tim, I just want to say thank you, thank you for a wonderful conversation, thank you to all of your listeners and, again, thank you for this platform that you’ve created to support and help others.

Tim: 51:37

I really do appreciate it. I love the conversation. I’ll put all those links in the show notes and again for listeners out there search Harriet out. She is phenomenal, harriet out, she is phenomenal Again. Harriet, I love your voice, and that means it’s not just your voice, it’s what you say and how you say it, and you are a true gem. Thank you so much.

Harriet: 52:01

I appreciate you and I appreciate your heart, Ted. Let’s continue rising together.

Tim: 52:06

Absolutely.

Tim: 52:07

Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free e-book. The Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and how to Overcome them. You can also register for the Formula for Public Speaking course. Always remember your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time, take care.