From Seinfeld to TikTok: Annie Korzen’s Secrets to Effective Communication Skills

Tim: 0:08

Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. I want to thank each and every one of you for your support. It truly means the world to me. If you have questions or if you want something covered on the podcast, just send me a message. Please visit timnewmanspeakscom to get your free ebook Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and how to Overcome them. Today’s guest is Annie Corzine. Annie was the recurring character Doris Klumpas on Seinfeld and she has recently become a TikTok sensation in her 80s. She has written humorous essays for the New York Times, la Times and many more. She also has performed her solo shows on three continents. Annie has had recent press on Access Daily, inside Edition, the CBS Evening News and wait for it, dr Phil. Annie, welcome to the show. I am so excited to talk to you. This is just a true blessing.

Annie: 1:14

Thank you, I’m looking forward to it.

Tim: 1:18

So, before we really get into this, how long have you and Benny been married?

Annie: 1:24

Benny and I. Well, well, before I answer that, I’ll tell you that we met in February and got married in April, because he’s a Dane, benny’s a Dane and he needed his green card okay and my friend said you can’t do this. You’re marrying a stranger, he’ll get his papers, you’ll never see him again. I said no, I think this feels real and that was, uh, 60 years ago, over 60 years ago god bless you.

Tim: 1:49

That that is number one. That that’s amazing. Um, it really is. And there was one thing in the book, in your book, that really, uh, really resonated with me, because my wife and I have some of these same conversations. When you got rid of his clothes and he went to the thrift store and he bought the hat and the bowling shoes, were they the same things that you dropped off?

Annie: 2:13

Yes, I snuck into his closet because he never gets rid of. My husband is one of those people who never throws anything away and he walks around in tattered, stained, you know, washed out clothing and I knew he wouldn’t notice it because he just grabs for a while. So when he was out I took some things, I donated them to the thrift store and a week later he said well, I went clothes shopping. He was so proud of himself. And he bought all the stuff, all the same crap that I had thrown out.

Tim: 2:41

That is. That’s funny, it’s hilarious. But my wife and I have some of those same same conversations. But let’s, let’s really get into this. You’re you’re a TikTok influencer. How did that happen and how much time and work goes into doing what you do?

Annie: 3:02

Well, how it happened was quite accidental. I thought I’m a storyteller and I do solo shows and I do, you know, appearances of telling stories. And I was talking to a young friend I’m 86, she’s 30. And I said I wish I could find a larger audience for my thoughts. Maybe I should put some little clips on Instagram. However that works. I don’t know how to use Instagram. And she said oh no, instagram is so toxic, it’s so last century. You have to be on TikTok. And I said you’re crazy. Who wants to see me on TikTok?

Annie: 3:36

And, by the way, I know we will talk about my book, but I have to say one of the themes of my book is you should always answer within reason. You should always answer yeah, why not when somebody offers you something that you’re not sure about. So I thought this was a stupid idea, but I thought what could it hurt? I said, yeah, why not? And she said trust me, you will go viral. And shortly after we started, I did and we started a week before lockdown A week before the pandemic is when we started. I did, and we started a week before lockdown. A week before the pandemic is when we started.

Annie: 4:08

Uh, and the rest is it’s still a total surprise to me. I’m not sure I understand it. I mean, I’m not complaining. I love the attention, but I found a whole new order. As a matter of fact, when I go out in the street, most of the people who stop me on the street are young kids. They’re 20s or even younger even younger.

Tim: 4:26

That amazes me. I saw a couple videos with with some, some girls that were 17, 18 years old.

Annie: 4:32

Yeah, yeah, and I and I say to them not that I’m looking for what do they call it? Humble, modest, humble, what’s the phrase when you’re kind of pretending to be humble but you’re really? Fishing for compliments there’s a phrase for that.

Tim: 4:46

I don’t know what it is.

Annie: 4:47

I forget, but I often say to them why. What is it about me that reaches you? And the word they often use is authentic. Now, I’m not sure what that means, because everyone’s authentic, everyone is themselves. I think maybe in my case it means that they know I’m always honest, I’m sharing honest opinions, even sometimes opinions that don’t make me look so great. I mean, I open up to my own faults. I hope that I’m not, but maybe kids don’t feel that they’re surrounded by a lot of honesty these days. Do you think that’s possible?

Tim: 5:26

Oh, I think that’s. That’s that you. It’s a hundred percent accurate. I mean because, especially if you look at social media, I mean people are posting pictures that that are supposed to be perfect of them and nobody is perfect. Nobody wakes up and looks as perfect as they do all the time.

Annie: 5:47

No, of course not, of course not. Uh, and also I feel a lot of it. They’re there to sell stuff. They’re there to make money. Yeah, it’s really depressing to me. Sometimes you can ask a little kid nowadays, what do you want to be when you grow up? And they’ll say an influencer yeah, they actually think of that.

Annie: 6:01

It’s not a profession. I don’t. This is not my profession. I’m’m a writer, an actor, a humorist. Those are my professions, and the social media thing is just something I do as part of that bigger picture. But a lot of these kids they get on and they’re there to sell stuff and they succeed. Some of them make millions of dollars. I’m not in that category, but they’re there as sales. They’re there as salespeople selling a lot of unnecessary makeup, unnecessary crap to people who don’t have the money and who don’t need it.

Tim: 6:35

Right, exactly. So what’s the workload? I mean, how long does it take you to do these videos? And I know you have somebody that posts them and all this stuff, but what’s the workload?

Annie: 6:44

Well, it’s less than when I started. For many years I posted twice a day. That was coming up with a lot of stuff. Uh, now I just post once a day and sometimes I skip a day in the week so it’s less stressful. But, um, I do. It is a job is work. I think about it. I think about what I want to say. I think about things that I dare not say because I don’t want to invite any conflict or controversy or haters, but they’re still out there. The haters will always find.

Tim: 7:16

They’ll always find a reason to hate.

Annie: 7:23

And I have people helping me. I mean, my, my, my husband shoots them. And I have somebody who helps with editing or suggesting stuff or dealing with the occasional brand offer from a from a company. Uh, so it is a job.

Tim: 7:41

Yeah, yeah. And again, I don’t think people realize that it’s not as simple as you wake up and say I think I’m going to do this today and you film it. Yeah, you put it up and it just happens.

Annie: 7:54

I keep lists of topics I write down when I have the terrible thing with me Tim, I get my best ideas either when I’m in the shower or when I’m taking a walk, and always when I have no access to my phone. So I get these great ideas. I come back, I go to my desk and I’m blank. I can’t remember what the genius idea was that I got. Eventually, they all come back eventually, but it’s very frustrating. But what’s fun about it is I’m documenting my life, basically.

Tim: 8:25

Yeah.

Annie: 8:25

So, whatever I do, wherever I am, if I’m eating an interesting meal, if I’m at an interesting party, if I just watch an interesting TV show, I document it, I share my thoughts about it, for good or bad, and again, that’s the authentic piece, because it’s good or bad, you know, whatever it is, yes, a case in which I don’t like to be too critical. I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to be nasty, I don’t want to be too critical. I try to stay with things.

Annie: 9:05

I try mostly to talk about things that I like rather than things that I hate, right, you know, I don’t want to talk about a tv show I hate or a movie I hate. I just I don’t need to be, I don’t need to be mean, I don’t want when people come to me, I don’t want them to come to a place of meanness exactly, and it’s really good at me. Mean, is my specialty? That’s really what I’m good at. I should maybe start another channel just for that part of me that I would enjoy the mean channel.

Tim: 9:34

Oh boy, so so you, you got into acting as when you were in your 30s um I was late.

Annie: 9:42

I’ve been late with everything. I’m a late bloomer in every way. I mean, now I’m 86 and I wish I had the, the, the fun now and the activity now. I wish I’d had it when I was in my 40s or 50s. So I just have to live to be 100 so that I, can, you know, keep growing. So maybe when I’m 100 I’ll have the career that I should have had when I was 60.

Tim: 10:05

Well, but again, I think things happen for a reason. They happen when they’re supposed to happen and you take it as it comes.

Annie: 10:23

And if you’re in that, mindset of again within reason, saying, yes, good things are going to happen. I think I mean I don’t know if I would agree that things happen for a reason. I can think of a lot of things that don’t happen for a reason. We won’t go into that. But I do think you’re right in that, whatever happens, whenever it happens or doesn’t happen, you have to use it and you still have to work at following your bliss.

Annie: 10:46

I’ve always thought that I might be really funny and interesting. And I’ll tell you something funny, tim. I don’t know if we talked about this or not. All my life I have been criticized for being too talkative and too opinionated and too blunt about my opinion, and I’ve always apologized for it. Also, as a woman, those are not attractive qualities. Traditionally, those are not attractive qualities in a woman, and I’ve always felt bad oh, why do I have such a big mouth? Why can’t I control myself? Why can’t I be more feminine? Blah, blah, blah. Why can’t I be more feminine? Blah, blah, blah. Now, with this new young audience, I am being celebrated for the very qualities that I was always criticized for. That I was apologized for, and it’s another theme of my book, which is I tell people now that I’ve learned this. I’m old enough to have learned this do not be imprisoned by other people’s negative opinions of you, and we all do that.

Tim: 11:48

Yes, we do.

Annie: 11:48

Because we’re told you do this, you do that and you apologize oh I’m sorry, oh, I’m sorry. And we have to learn to say oh really, you think I talk a lot, you’re quite right, and maybe you should listen to what I have to say.

Tim: 11:59

You might get something out of it Exactly, something out of it exactly, instead of instead of apologizing, yeah, yeah, and you know the way I approach it is. Well, you know. Thanks for your input, but I don’t live my life based on what you think of me.

Annie: 12:12

You know, that’s well, I wish I had that confidence at your young age. I wish I had had that confidence you know.

Tim: 12:20

But but I I do try and teach that to my kids and the younger audience that I’m working with Because, like you said, if we spend all of our lives worried about what other people think about us and say about us, we’ll never get out of that rat race and we’ll never truly become who we are supposed to be who we are meant to be I totally agree.

Annie: 12:42

But it’s hard when you’re young. You know when you want to be popular, you want to be liked, you want to please. And it’s even harder for women.

Annie: 12:50

I had an interesting conversation the other day. I went to the wrong place so fortunately the other office wasn’t that far away so I ran over and I got in. And I got in and I said to this, oh, I’m so sorry, I’m late. And she put up her hand and she said Annie, I’m in this office all day long and the only people who say I’m sorry are women. Men come late, men come unwashed, men come without a chat. You know they never. They. Men come forgetting their. The men never apologize and I’ve decided in this office I’m going to have a rule Women cannot say I’m sorry. Is that interesting?

Tim: 13:42

It is it really is, say I’m sorry. Is that interesting? It is, it really is. And I’ve never really noticed that, but you’re probably right. But I also think that, at least for me, if I know that I’m in the wrong, so if I know that I’m late, the first thing I say is I’m sorry, excuse me, it’s my fault. If you can fit me in, great.

Tim: 14:10

If not, I understand it seems to be the polite thing to do to do right, right, um, and, and you move, and again, most of the time that happens, or when it does happen, it’s don’t no worries, just come on through and let’s get you taken care of. But again, there’s that whole idea of being polite as opposed to being entitled.

Annie: 14:33

Yes, right, right, exactly. Well, I think that. Again to the gender thing.

Annie: 14:40

I think women feel that men are entitled and that women are not that we still have to fight for privileges that men assume they have. Anyway, I don’t know if you want to get into that, but more than that you know as kids when you’re bringing up kids. Another thing is about other people’s opinions. In Hollywood I am considered unattractive. If a casting call went out today for an attractive older woman, I would never be seen. They would say you’re a character actress, which is really a euphemism. I’m too ethnic looking, I’m too Jewish looking.

Annie: 15:22

That’s not considered attractive in Hollywood. And so again I internalized that in all my life. I have thought well, I’m not very pretty, too ethnic looking, I’m too jewish, right, that’s not considered attractive in hollywood. And so again I internalize that in all my life. I have thought well, I’m not very pretty I’m not very good looking you know, now again, these same fans are telling me oh, you’re gorgeous.

Annie: 15:34

Oh, we love your hair, we love your style. Oh, what’s that lipstick? It looks so good on you, you’re so beautiful. This is I’m in my 80s tim. Yeah, this is the first time in my life that I am being told that I’m good looking. I have never heard this before.

Tim: 15:50

Well, if you remember, when we talked a couple weeks ago and you didn’t realize that I was going to be recording what it was, you said I don’t look so good. I said, Annie, you look beautiful. I mean, it’s just you being you and that’s fine. And you said to me that men have different standards, and I think that’s part of the issue. It’s how. We as a society need to have that change in mindset. Stop worrying about all those other things and take people for who they are and how they show up on any given day. Those other things and take people for who they are and how they show up on any given day. And how you show up today may be different than how you show up tomorrow, because you never know what’s what’s going on in your life. So just accept people as they come to you.

Annie: 16:34

Absolutely no, absolutely, I totally agree.

Tim: 16:39

So so have you always been a good storyteller I mean your your entire life or was that something that you kind of learned? I think I have.

Annie: 16:45

I think part of it was was that feeling that I wasn’t pretty so I better develop my personality. I’ve always liked making people laugh. I’ve always liked and as, as I say, I’m a talker, I’ve always been a good storyteller, so I always had that. I didn’t realize, but you know how you take things for granted.

Tim: 17:02

Yeah.

Annie: 17:02

Also, I always hung out with people who were also like me. I don’t hang out with quiet, restrained people, so I never thought it was anything special. It wasn’t until recently that I realized hey, I have a real gift here. I have a real something as a reference to my book. Can I talk about my book?

Tim: 17:18

Should I show my book?

Annie: 17:20

In my book. The book happens as a result of my TikTok popularity. In my book, the book happens as a result of my TikTok popularity. The book is called the Book of Annie Humor, heart and Chutzpah from an accidental influencer, and now I forgot the point I was going to make About. Oh, in my book. So I tell my book is a collection of stories, mostly fun I’m a little more, as you say, a little more fun. Some a little more, as you say, a little more dramatic, a little more poignant, uh, but I have been telling stories and writing stories for so long now that it’s funny. When I, when I got the uh contract to write the book, I really just plagiarized for myself I went back into my files and I found all these stories that I’ve been telling over the years and put them together.

Annie: 18:08

I had the material there which is one of the nicer things about growing older you have a body of work behind you. You’ve been doing something all your life. It’s there, it doesn’t die, it’s not wasted. And all of a sudden, I had a book there die.

Tim: 18:26

It’s not wasted. And all of a sudden, I had a book there and you’re the second person in the last couple of weeks who who has said that’s how their, how their book came about. I interviewed somebody a few weeks ago who took episodes from his podcast and wrote the book and and, and you know, there there’s a ton of that information that’s out there as, as content creators, that we have, and doing what you did is it’s not that it’s easy, but it’s something that people don’t necessarily think about all the time. You know they think they’ve got to start from scratch and and and start writing a book from scratch. But you know you, you can.

Annie: 19:04

Oh, you’re not always starting with a blank page, because you’ve got material in your background. Right Even if you kept a diary or a journal or something. There’s material there.

Tim: 19:17

Exactly, yes me Bless you, thank you. You also recently taught a college class on storytelling. What was that like for you?

Annie: 19:29

Yeah, that was interesting. It’s funny that you bring that up, because they just called and asked me backwards. I’m very sorry about that. It was much different. I teach writing and I taught it. It was much different. I teach writing and I taught it for a while. And I teach what I do the personal essay, creating and performing the personal essay. So that’s like between five and fifteen hundred words. It’s a short personal humor story.

Annie: 19:56

But I’ve always thought, as older people and people who’ve done some writing, teaching these college kids was different, because they number one that generation. They’re so addicted to their screens they’re not used to just talking to people, to making eye contact with an audience and telling a story to an audience and telling a story to an audience.

Annie: 20:18

It was a new thing for them. Also, I gave what I thought was a very easy prompt. I said okay, everybody, get up and tell a story about how you survived. Now these are kids in their twenties, right? How did you survive the worst thing that ever happened to you and make it funny? That was the problem. They couldn’t do it. They had no, and I figure at 20, they’ve experienced divorce or death of a grandparent or a breakup of a roommate. They must have experienced something painful in their lives.

Tim: 20:58

They couldn’t.

Annie: 20:58

One kid got up and said well, I had a crush on this girl, but then I heard she was homophobic so I didn’t like her anymore. That was the worst thing they could come up with. And then, when I was talking to some of the other teachers about it afterwards, they said you have to remember that that generation went through high school in lockdown.

Tim: 21:17

Yeah yeah.

Annie: 21:18

So they weren’t bullied, they didn’t get asked or not asked to prom, they didn’t suffer at a be not in the, in the, in the popular group. So in a way, not only did they miss a lot of good stuff, they also miss a lot of the painful stuff that makes you grow during those formidable, forming high school years.

Tim: 21:43

Right, which helps you deal with a lot of things right. Dealing with painful things helps you, you know, get through life. Dealing with positive things helps you deal with getting through life life.

Annie: 21:57

Dealing with with positive things helps you deal with getting through life, and you know it. And not only that, but also I felt that I don’t know how to explain it I’m a big believer.

Annie: 22:05

I’m a big believer in failure yeah I think you have to fail this stuff and I have a lot of stories in my book about that. How about my various? I’ve failed enough to fill several books, but I think there’s something about this generation that they haven’t been allowed to fail Right. If they fail, somebody says, oh, it’s okay, we’ll get, we’ll pass you anyway in the class. Oh, it’s okay, you’ll still get your birthday even though you killed the cat. You know. They say, oh, we’re very disappointed. But I mean that that I feel that maybe this makes me sound like an old fashioned fuddy duddy. I don’t get the feeling that kids are being made to feel responsible for their behavior and then if you become a person, a grown up, who’s like that, that’s not such a great thing to have a country of citizens who feel no responsibility when they mess up, right right, it’s okay, but I messed up, so it’s okay.

Tim: 23:05

We’re just going to be warned and never actually clean up the mess. Yeah, yeah, unless you stays there, somebody else has to clean it up, and also I always.

Annie: 23:13

you know, none of us trust politicians, but I would love someday to hear a politician say you know, there’s one big mistake I made while I was in office, there’s one big mistake I made in my career. If I could undo it, I would.

Tim: 23:28

When have you ever heard any of them say that? Never, never. They double down on it.

Annie: 23:34

Yeah, exactly that’s the right phrase. They double down on it. Yeah, exactly that’s the right phrase. They double down on it. Right, I did it and I’m proud and it wasn’t so bad and it was a good. You know, they never admit to being human Right.

Tim: 23:46

Right. The only people in the world never made a mistake are politicians.

Annie: 23:52

Right, right right.

Tim: 23:54

Oh it’s insane. Annie, don’t get me started on our politicians.

Annie: 23:58

No, we don’t want to go there.

Tim: 24:00

Don’t want to go there. We’re going to have a good time today. So what actually makes a good storyteller?

Annie: 24:10

I think honesty, vulnerability and the big thing. When I teach storytelling, what? What a lot of people don’t understand is there’s a difference between a humorous anecdote and a story. Right, and that anecdote is fun. I was on this plane, oh, and I was sitting next to george clooney and he said this. I said that it was so great, that’s a fun story everybody wants to hear. But it’s not. But it’s an anecdote, the story version of that. I was on this plane, I was sitting there to george clinton. He said this and I, and then at the end I realized afterwards that he had been just as scared of that turbulence as I was, and it was nice to know that I’m not alone in my fears that, no matter how rich, and in other words, if you come to some conclusion, at the end of your journey.

Annie: 24:59

You learn something at the end.

Annie: 25:02

So in all my stories, I learned something. I was against my son’s wedding and at the end, I loved it. I was, I thought I knew how to be the perfect mother. I was totally wrong, I messed up in every possible way, but I ended up learning something about that. So it’s the, it’s where the journey, it’s the I think ira glass calls it at the end, the moment of reflection. At the end yeah, what did I get out of this? And then, of course, what is your audience going to get out of it?

Annie: 25:31

exactly how is your audience going to be inspired? By?

Tim: 25:33

your journey.

Tim: 25:35

Yeah, you know, and I’m glad you you said some of those things, because, as I was reading the book there, there was a couple of things that really, you know, touched me and one, I think I don’t think that there was.

Tim: 25:47

More than a page went by where you didn’t talk about your family, whether it was Benny or your son or or-in-law or your grandson. And for me, when I tell stories and I give presentations and those types of things, that’s what I’m talking about. I’m talking about me, I’m talking about my family, I’m talking about the things that happen in my life, because those are the things that are important to me, right, right, things that are important to me, right and right you. I think there has to be another, another level of vulnerability to be able to bring your family into, into these stories, because that really really truly kind of opens up who we are as individuals and and the audience can can get a better sense of who we actually are I think that’s very wise of you and and I think it is important, and a lot of times how shall I say?

Annie: 26:39

I judge family. Again, we go back to politicians. I judge people on how they treat their family and also how they’ve been treated. It gives me some insight. I heard a very interesting thing once and I’ve kept it as a standard. I heard an interview with Ron Reagan. Okay, One of the sons, one of the children of President Reagan.

Annie: 27:04

I happen to know the daughter. I know her so well that I can’t remember her name, but she’s also a writer and a storyteller and we’ve had, we’ve sometimes been on the same. But Ron Reagan said you know, the thing about my family was in most families the family life is focused on the children to keep them safe, to keep them happy, to keep them. In my family, everything was focused on my father to keep him comfortable, to keep him, you know, able to function, to keep him. And so when I thought about that, I started looking around at other families that I know and I could see in some families it’s about the father Daddy’s home, daddy makes the money. Daddy’s got to be kept. Don’t do that, daddy wouldn’t like that, and I know quite a few as a matter of fact, more so, I would have to say, in wealthy families it’s about the father and keeping him happy and keeping him comfortable, and in other, I would say, healthier families, it’s about the children. It’s about.

Tim: 28:16

the kids say healthier families. It’s about the children.

Annie: 28:19

It’s about the kids and it’s interesting to sort of study various families. That way, it gives you an insight into how people are brought up.

Tim: 28:29

Yeah, I never really looked at it like that and I think that does probably answer some questions that I have about other people, right? I mean because yeah, I think if everybody just did it the way I did it, the world would be a much better place to begin with. So just start doing it the way Tim does it. Everything will be good.

Annie: 28:48

And the funny thing is the some of the kids I know now they’re not kids anymore but some of the people I know who were brought up in those kinds of families where everything was about the father, the father’s career, the father da, da, da da they actually went the other way as parents and became very devoted parents.

Tim: 29:05

Yeah.

Annie: 29:05

Because they didn’t want to repeat Right. They didn’t want their kids to grow up the way they did Right. So sometimes that happens and of course, sometimes, as we all know, that abusive parents end up the kids end up being abusive parents.

Tim: 29:18

That happens as well.

Annie: 29:21

So it can go either way. Yeah, but I agree with you that family is important. Family is important.

Tim: 29:34

And a lot of times, at least for me, I, I, I use self-deprecating humor and everything’s a joke and I try and make everything funny because that’s just the way I am. But you know, you have a couple of of stories in your book about some some really hard things and I liked the way that you, that they came across, like your story about miko. I was shocked. I mean, just reading that story about miko and wait a minute story about what? I didn’t hear what you said about miko, your, your, your nanny, your story about miko and oh yeah, well, that’s funny.

Annie: 30:11

Nobody ever misses that story. I like it, but but it does.

Tim: 30:14

It’s odd that that spoke to you okay well, because, because I’m the and it’s there, there’s a train of thought there too, because your next story was when you were at the story house and that I’m not even that, I don’t even know what to call. Him started making a joke about ann frank right right, right, right, right. I mean, how mean? How much of a lowlife do you have to be to do that? It’s about speaking up. When do you speak up? When do you speak up? When?

Annie: 30:41

do you stand up and speak up? And the thing about Miko, who is my Swedish au pair and she lived with us in New York and she never met anyone like me and she was embarrassed by me that I so I I constantly that I criticize. And you know, if I saw somebody on the street hitting his kid, I would go up and say don’t, you’re not allowed to do that, and whatever. And then she went back to Sweden, ended up being one of Sweden’s most notorious whistleblowers and she said she learned it from me. That was very sad, but it’s funny. No one ever mentioned that story. I’m so glad that it meant something to you, but I think it’s so important it ever mentioned that story.

Tim: 31:16

I’m so glad that it meant something to you, but I think it’s so important. It’s something that we’re missing in society today, because we just let things go. We see, we see things that are not right and instead of standing up and saying you know what, this isn’t right. I don’t care who it is.

Annie: 31:33

Right.

Tim: 31:34

Be better, do better. We don’t treat people this way. We’re not going to do that. At least that’s my opinion, because your story about Anne Frank my wife is kind of dealing with something along those lines right now.

Annie: 31:50

Really.

Tim: 31:51

Yes, hard to believe, but yes, and so we’re kind of going through that right now and dealing with it and figuring out how we’re going to move forward with it. But the part of the problem is is if, as a society, we just continue to say, okay, we’re not going to step up, stand up and stop it, we’re going to start repeating some of the same things, tragedies that have happened over and over and over again.

Annie: 32:21

And I, I know, I know it’s too depressing, it’s too depressing, but um, uh, let me talk some more. I want to say something about what we were saying before about haters and trolls. Yeah, yeah, Um, I’ve been very careful. I, yeah, I’ve been very careful. I’ve tried deliberately not to provoke those kinds of but you can’t avoid it. If you’re in the public eye, if you’re out there, somebody’s going to find something. Some of them are actually funny. Some of them are so stupid. I had one where I did a TikTok. Actually it got millions. It was one of my most heavily trafficked TikToks. It was something very simple. I’m just having a margarita and some guac and chips and I say this sitting outside the cafe and I say is there anything better than ending the day like this? So very innocent, right, Just sharing a moment of pleasure and comfort. Do you know that somebody wrote oh, typical white woman and her cultural appropriation. In other words, I shouldn’t be eating.

Tim: 33:31

I walk, that maybe only.

Annie: 33:33

Mexicans should drink margaritas. So I wrote back and I said well, I guess that only Jews should eat bagels and only French people should eat croissants. I mean, can you imagine? It was stupid? I was accused of being politically incorrect because I was celebrating the margarita and some guac.

Tim: 33:54

I mean that gets really.

Annie: 33:55

But then some of them have been nastier and so I was wrote, I did a TikTok about my feeling about haters, about trolls.

Tim: 34:05

Right.

Annie: 34:06

And I thought what does it mean to be sitting I’m assuming alone? You’re sitting alone and you’re spewing malicious insults to a total stranger who has never done you any harm? What does that mean about you? What does that say about you? And I said when you do that, you are announcing to the world that you have not received enough love in your life. It’s as simple as that. People who feel love, people who have gotten love, do not need to do to practice anonymous hatred the way those trolls do.

Tim: 34:43

right exactly, exactly, and and. And that gets back to the whole point of why do we put any, any value in any of those types of comments of people we don’t? They don’t even know us. Those comments to me aren’t even valid. Yes, you can have those thoughts and if you want to say, I’m great, that’s awesome, but they’re not valid to me. Why? Why am I even gonna? No?

Annie: 35:07

they’re not. I mean, I don’t like to see it. I want, of course, I have this fantasy that everyone in the world was gonna love me at all times, which is not. I don’t think I I doubt that I can achieve that. I already know that I can’t, but it is. It is a strange phenomenon to me, people who do that, yeah.

Tim: 35:32

How about the when you’re, when you’re doing your storytelling? Talk about the research and the preparation that actually goes into that, because I also I also think that’s something that’s actually missed from from the, the younger professionals perspective, when, when they you know, when they’re in a meeting and they’re going to do a presentation or they’re telling a story or whatever it’s there’s a lack of preparation and research. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Annie: 36:00

Well, you know, it’s funny that you should say that, because I think the lack of preparation for most people, when they want to impress somebody and they’re going into a meeting, let’s say, or a job interview or something of that nature, they make the mistake of thinking that they should take up the whole time talking about themselves and their qualifications and their accomplishments. It’s just the opposite. You should do your preparation by researching the other person the person is going to interview. My first piece that I sold to the New York Times, I seem to recall I researched that editor. I found a piece he wrote that really resonated with me and when I sent in my piece I said, by the way, I was very impressed with your article about so-and-so I’ve experienced. In other words, I talked about his work and I’ve done that.

Annie: 36:57

I’ve used that technique and not in a phony way. I don’t mean I mean. I don’t mean just empty. You know flattery, but genuine respect and appreciation of the other person’s accomplishments. You’re not there just to sell yourself. You’re there to make a friend, to make a contact, to make a connection. I mean literally to connect with the other person. And what better way to do that than to really know about them and what they’ve done and what you admire about them, and I think so many people miss that. They think they’re going in to give a sales pitch about me, me, me. That’s not the case. You look like you agree with that I, I would 100 agree with it.

Tim: 37:49

It’s, it’s. It’s never about me, it’s always about you, it’s always about the audience, it’s always about everything other than that and um you know, but.

Annie: 37:59

And also, it’s like you’re talking I mean, you’re called speaking with confidence and um, it’s like, let’s say, you have to give a speech, whether it’s a wedding or a funeral or a graduation or something. Uh, I think people forget that’s. That’s where the power of storytelling really comes in.

Tim: 38:20

Yeah.

Annie: 38:21

So if you don’t know how to give a speech, you don’t know what to say about this person. Sometimes people say, oh, I have to speak at my brother’s wedding. I’m not sure. I said it’s simple Tell the funniest story you know you can remember about him and the sweetest story you can remember about him. Just those two things would give you enough material for a great wedding speech yep, right, that’s it, yeah, so.

Tim: 38:47

So my youngest daughter um and it’s funny because she was at work in the wedding industry for a while and that I was. She was in the wedding industry for a while, so she was a wedding planner and so wedding dresses.

Annie: 39:00

Oh, really yeah.

Tim: 39:02

And so at one point she was selling wedding dresses where the the taxes on the dress were over a thousand dollars. That’s the, that’s how expensive these dresses were. And when she got married, so she’s, she’s buttoned up right, she’s got it. You know timelines, this, timelines, this, that and the other thing. And she said, dad, you, you’ve got four minutes for your speech. And I said, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something, honey. I’m taking as much time as I want.

Annie: 39:28

I’m taking 35 minutes what you’re serious, I do I know I that’s what I told her.

Tim: 39:35

I I had five minutes is what is what I took uh I would. Just I was just giving her a hard time. I said they’re going to sit there and listen to me talk about you for 35 minutes. You’re my youngest child.

Annie: 39:45

That’s what I got.

Annie: 39:47

It was hilarious, yeah Five minutes is the perfect time for speech. How many times have we suffered through and then the end of the cliches. I mean every time. Unfortunately, I’m going to more funerals now than I would like to, but that’s becoming. And if I have to sit through one and I know he’s looking down on us, you don’t know that. You don’t know if someone’s looking down, you don’t know where they are, if they are or if they’re maybe looking up at it. You know, and that one always got. I know he’s looking down on us and enjoying it.

Tim: 40:24

I mean you know he’s probably in the back of the room. Laughing at you is probably what they’re doing.

Annie: 40:29

Right, and so I keep saying I want to be there for my funeral, I want to plan it.

Tim: 40:40

I want to plan the menu and the music and I want to and I want to hear the speeches. I want to be there. Yeah, I saw a YouTube or or, or whatever video or whatever, and it was. It, was it said if you, if you want to mess with your friends when you die at your funeral, have one of your friends text people. Thanks for coming from your phone.

Annie: 41:01

That’s really funny.

Tim: 41:03

It is funny, isn’t that funny?

Annie: 41:05

That’s a wild idea. I like that. But you know funerals are done right. Nowadays they call them celebrations of life. If they’re done right, they can be quite remarkable, quite wonderful, very moving, very satisfying. You know I mean anything. You know it’s another thing I talk about in the book. I’m not a big believer in the rules and traditions. I think we have to find our own way.

Tim: 41:33

Right.

Annie: 41:34

And there’s all kinds of ways to celebrate, for example, a wedding, and there’s all kinds of ways to celebrate to mourn a loved one Right. And they don’t have to follow the conventions.

Tim: 41:52

Exactly.

Annie: 41:53

You know you can do your own thing. You can do your own thing. You can be inventive and do what would make sense for the person who’s not there anymore. And what’s really important is weddings are not for the dead, I mean funerals. I always do that. What would Freud say? I always mix up those two words weddings and funerals. Oh my God. I always mix up those two words weddings and funerals. Oh my God. But that was one of the reasons. One of my serious stories about my postpartum depression was because I didn’t feel I was following the rules and therefore I must have been a failure as a mother, because I couldn’t have natural childbirth and I couldn’t breastfeed and all those things that we were told you had to do and if you didn’t do them, your child would suffer for the rest of their lives.

Annie: 42:43

And it made me crazy. I was literally hospitalized for the first three or four months of my child’s life because I felt I had failed and I didn’t have anyone to say to me hey, do what works for you. Exactly, you can’t breastfeed. As long as you love the baby, all of those other things don’t matter, right?

Tim: 43:04

Right.

Annie: 43:05

It’s the love. And now, as a matter of fact, I am the world’s best mother. I have the world’s best relationship with my son. We’re very close. Unfortunately, he lives on the other coast, but we talk at least two or three times a week. I have people I don’t understand getting back to family, I have people who who never hear from their kids. Oh yeah, we talk, you know, once a month, every couple of months, and I’m thinking what no? That’s not the way I live.

Tim: 43:34

I talk to both my kids pretty much every day. If I go two days without talking to them, you know that means either they’re on vacation, they’re off doing something or whatever. But we have schedule time.

Annie: 43:47

Yeah, it’s an important connection. You want to keep it going and especially now that I have a grandchild, I want to see what’s going on with him.

Tim: 43:56

And with technology, with FaceTime and all these other things you know, yes, it’s so easy, I see them, so much available right, that’s what we do.

Annie: 44:04

We facetime it’s, it’s awesome um and uh so. So basically you know what I talk about, both on tiktok and in the book, the book of annie, the book of annie humor hardened chutzpah from an accident. I talk about the subjects that I think are important, which means marriage, dating, family, career for women. You know that life, work balance, which is hard for women to achieve. Um, and then thrifting. Now I didn’t know. It’s funny what we were saying before If you’re you and you do what you do, you don’t know how that’s going to reach the universe out there. I was brought up poor, I was brought up in a tenement, in a three-room railroad flat in the Bronx, and so all of my life I have treated money with a lot of respect. I do not waste it, I do not spend it. You know money is something, and so I’ve always been a thrifter, always. So I started writing about thrifting just because it’s a subject of interest to me. I did not know that thrifting is a big new trend in our society.

Tim: 45:21

It is.

Annie: 45:21

People are shopping secondhand and people are going to yard sales and thrift stores and estate sales. I’ve always done that. I didn’t know that. Now everyone is doing it, and so I have a lot of experience with that. And not only do I thrift, but I’ve actually made money by selling some of the treasures that.

Annie: 45:39

I buy uh, and I have a I had and still have a little side business of that I. I deal in um, my husband did rare books for a while but I do vintage fashion and art and collectibles. These are things that I pick up for a couple of bucks somewhere I know are worth a lot more. So anyway, I talk about that but I did not know that it was a trend that I was walking into, a very popular trend uh, and that was kind of it was kind of satisfying yeah, that is something that is because, again, it was something people made fun of me for.

Annie: 46:20

You know what I mean? Oh, my friends are like how could you wear clothing that someone else has worn? It doesn’t bother me.

Tim: 46:27

I mean, I wash it, I clean it.

Annie: 46:31

And now it’s like oh, how can you shop, how can you pay full price at a department store? It’s like that’s the thing that’s suspect.

Tim: 46:39

Exactly, exactly. So you know, if you think about it, anybody that’s really 29 years old or younger either was not born yet or has no real recollection of what happened on September 11, 2001.

Annie: 46:55

Oh, you were in the city when it happened.

Tim: 46:59

Yes, I was. Can you tell us something that? What did you take away from that experience that we as a society may have forgotten?

Annie: 47:09

well, you have to understand, I’m a passionate new yorker. I don’t live there anymore.

Annie: 47:16

I live in la, I have a nice life here, but I’m not passionate about la new. I don’t live there anymore. I live in LA. I have a nice life here, but I’m not passionate about LA. New York is special to me. It always has been and being there, and one of the things I love about New York is how people connect with each other. All the time People think New York is being a cold and unfriendly place. It’s quite the opposite. In New York, you could talk to someone on the bus, you could talk to someone sitting next to you at a restaurant. People talk to each other.

Annie: 47:48

When 9-11 happened, you had this feeling that it was one big community and everybody was out to help the line. When it first happened, we didn’t know at this point that there was no one to give blood to, but the line to donate blood at the local hospital was like five blocks long. Everyone was on that line, everyone was. When everyone was. All the cafes were filled, the coffee, the restaurants were filled. People wanted to be together. If you were in, at one point I was in a coffee shop on the Upper West Side and a bunch of firemen walked in in their uniforms. I can’t talk about this without getting a little teary.

Tim: 48:34

Yeah.

Annie: 48:34

Everyone stood up. Everyone stood up and applauded everyone. I mean, there was, there was just a feeling of we have to deal with this together together and people would call each other.

Annie: 48:47

No one was alone. People would call a friend, would call and say, hey, I’ll make you the chicken. You’re coming over, I come over. There’d be dead people there. People wanted to be together and it was very emotional, but it was, and it was funny.

Annie: 49:07

I was in New York because I had a booking. I was doing a show, a solo show, at Queens College, and I was scheduled for a week after the event. Yeah, so the producer said we don’t know what to do. If we should cancel, we’ll cancel the evening show. We’ll just do the matinee. We’ll hope that people show up. Not only did they show up, we were so overbooked. We could have done the evening show and theme show that, because New Yorkers when they suffer, they want to suffer together. They came to my show because they wanted to laugh and forget right. Uh, so it was. It was just a lesson in I don’t know what.

Annie: 49:50

I don’t know what you would call that civic, what I was trying to think. If it happened in a way, would it be the same? It wouldn’t be the same because of cars In New York. You’re on the subway. People would talk to each other on buses. They would talk to each other on the subway and the word was it was kind of a code word if you would run into someone that you knew, which happens all the time in New York you walk down the street or in the supermarket, you meet somebody from the neighborhood, you would say is everybody okay? That was kind of the way of saying have you been affected? And I knew some people that were not, but we’re not okay.

Annie: 50:41

It was a horrible time but it was also very inspiring and it also I am a sob. I am an intellectual sob and until that time I didn’t have a lot. I never thought much about it, but I didn’t really have all that much respect for men in uniform. You know, if I had a daughter and she married a cop or a fireman, I don’t think that would make me too happy. That changed because those guys ran towards the disaster. I’m sorry.

Annie: 51:08

I get a little and now, every time I see one of them, a cop or a firefighter, something in me sends out a feeling of respect and and gratitude. And they lost so much they lost their friends.

Annie: 51:22

They lost their colleagues. Yeah, you know, uh, I had friends in the who were um therapists and they went around and volunteered time. They would go to the firehouses, our police, uh precincts and they would say does anyone need to talk to me? Yeah, you, they would go to the firehouses or police precincts and they would say does anyone need to talk to me? They would just do that. People just said, whatever I can do, I had a friend who went down and made sandwiches for the. It was just that feeling of people. I guess other countries they say that’s what England was like during the Blitz. They always talk about that during the London Blitz where people had to. And you don’t think of the, I don’t think of the English being that way, being warm and fuzzy and making connections with strangers, you know, but they did.

Annie: 52:13

Now I’m crying, I’m sorry.

Tim: 52:15

I’m sorry. You’re still a beautiful, but, annie, thank you so much for that. I think that’s a good place to to end it. Where can people buy the book and where can they find you?

Annie: 52:27

oh, please, uh, go on amazon. It’s the book of annie. They also have them. I think you can order them at barnes and noble um. And also I’m going to ask all keep forgetting to ask this because YouTube may not, because TikTok may not continue. We never know. Please, if people want to hear what I have to say, go to YouTube. I now have a channel. It’s called Annie Corzen Videos. So please, please, please, subscribe to Annie Corzen Videos on YouTube. It’s a new venture and you can hear more of my brilliant witty thoughts.

Tim: 53:03

Some of them are just informational, some of them are really funny, make me laugh and they’re great. And, annie, actually that’s where I’ve been watching your videos from is YouTube.

Annie: 53:16

So if you get likes here, it’s Annie Corzine videos on YouTube and it’s. So you know, if you, if you get, if you get videos on YouTube and it’s a, it’s a cores in on Tik TOK.

Tim: 53:22

Well, and I’ll put all those links in the show notes.

Annie: 53:24

Annie, Thank you so so much for today. I I really appreciate it.

Tim: 53:29

I love talking to you, tim, so well it’s uh, I think we’re kindred spirits.

Annie: 53:34

I do too.

Tim: 53:38

You take care and we’ll talk again soon.

Annie: 53:40

Excellent.

Tim: 53:42

Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom to get your free ebook the top 21 challenges for public speakers and how to overcome them. You can also register for the forming for public speaking course. Always remember your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time, Take care.