Small Ball, Big Voice: How Joel Goldberg Builds Trust Through Communication

Tim: 0:08

Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. I want to thank each and every one of you for your support. It truly means the world to me. If you have questions or if you want something covered on the podcast, just send me a message. Please visit timnewmanspeakscom to get your free ebook Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and how to Overcome them. Today’s guest is Joel Goldberg. He’s a longtime sports broadcaster, speaker and author known for his work covering the Kansas City Royals. His first book, small Ball Big Results, explored the power of trust and culture in building winning teams. Now his latest book, small Ball Big Dreams, dives deeper into the stories of perseverance and purpose from athletes, leaders and dreamers. He also hosts the Rounding the Bases podcast, where he interviews high performers across different industries. Joel, welcome to the show. I’m really excited to have you today.

Joel: 1:12

Tim, it’s great to be with you and I’ve enjoyed getting to know you a little bit before these conversations, or this conversation, and excited to, I guess, put it on record, so to speak.

Tim: 1:23

Yeah, me too. We come from similar backgrounds, you know from, you know, being in the sports industry, and so I get a lot of the things that you’re doing and the things that you go through. And you know I told you you are a busy, busy man and you’re doing things at a high level. And one of the things that you know I always tell people is, if you want something done and you want it done right, make sure you’re you’re doing it with somebody who’s busy, because they’re going to be focused at it and they’re going to make sure that it’s done right because they’re going to put their name on it.

Joel: 1:56

I think that’s right, and I, you know, I think everyone always seems to say that I’m really busy, which is true. I think most of us are busy. I think that I’m not trying to discount what I’m doing. I just I think I shouldn’t say most of us, but I think most of the people in the world that you and I exist in Tim, the people that we’re networking with, the people that we’re interviewing with or interviewing or being interviewed by, I just think that there’s that might be the common thread that we’re all busy in a hopefully a good way, right.

Joel: 2:30

But also, you know, some of that is learning over time what to be busy with or maybe, more importantly, what not to be busy with, and that that’s still an ongoing journey for me. I think there are moments every day that give you signs that say that this is where you should be, this is where you shouldn’t be, this is where I’d like to be, and so I think that’s part of the fun of it, and I think you’re right. If you surround yourself with people that are regularly busy, that doesn’t mean they’re not going to have time for you. It means that if they do have time for you, or if their fit is right that you’re going to get their best.

Tim: 3:02

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s funny you say some of those things you catch yourself you know at least I do when I’m doing research on somebody or getting ready to put something together and you start watching the reels and after about the fifth reel you say wait a second, it’s time to stop and get back to the ones I should be looking at. But it’s fun. We all kind of get caught in that trap. You know you’ve been doing TV all your career and when we talked you said you kind of stumbled on the whole idea of podcasting and writing books and when that happened, you know you kind of mentioned you had nervousness or the imposter syndrome effect. Where do you think that came from? Did you figure out where it came from and how did you eventually get over it? Because what I’m going to talk about is you’ve already done over a thousand podcast interviews, let alone interviews you do on TV.

Joel: 4:00

I think it’s a really good question, tim, because the second part will be an easier answer than the first, meaning that I’ll tell you in a moment how don’t think that imposter syndrome necessarily has to be isolated. To say, someone that is new at something, right, there are people that have done something their whole lives that may still have imposter syndrome. I would suggest that there’s a lot of work that needs to be done there, but I think that typically you’re going to find that if you don’t have comfort level familiarity with something, even if it’s something you enjoy doing that, you’re probably likely to have some of imposter syndrome. For me, so I don’t know where it came from, other than I’m someone that’s wired to be confident in what I do once I’ve done it enough to prove to myself that I’m good enough. Now I think the noise in our heads for a lot of us that get in the way and lead to that imposter syndrome is the comparison game, which is a very dangerous thing for all of us to do. We do it with our weight, we do it with our bank accounts, we do it with something silly like the cars that we have Not everybody right the houses, and on and on. So it’s that sort of good old keeping up with the Joneses, and some people never experienced that. Other people experience it forever. Maybe some of us start to say I don’t care about this, I don’t care about that. A little bit of what I was saying before of of of just not focusing on the things that are unimportant, that don’t matter, or that you suddenly realize don’t matter. But I think for me, for for getting over the imposter syndrome, look, I’ve had it, everything I’ve done in my life. So I’ll start with TV. For years I mean even once I’d been in the business four or five, six years.

Joel: 6:10

I just remember I was in television news for my first 10 years in this profession. That what do we do in television news? We watch the competition, right, I was at Fox and St Louis. We watched the NBC, the CBS, uh, and and and wanted to see what their newscasts were. And I found myself regularly, as we watched the sportscast, saying I’m not as good as that guy. I like that guy, I’m not as good as him. And eventually I got to a point where those thoughts never crossed my mind.

Joel: 6:40

When I look at people that do what I do now, I may think they’re better than me. I may think I’m better than them, but if those thoughts even pop in my head, it pretty much defers to who cares. Am I good at what I do and what can I do to get better at it? Right, and you know, I’ve done thousands of pre and post game shows with the Royals. And so when people say to me, do you get nervous? I said no, do you get nervous when you go to work every single day? This is what I do every day. And there came a certain point.

Joel: 7:12

So to me, one of the cures to imposter syndrome is repetition. Right, because if you have enough repetition one, you get more comfortable with it. You start to convince yourself that wait a minute, I belong. And oh, by the way, they keep having me come back and do these repetitions. That must mean they like me. And so you know, 30 years in TV. By no means do I have all the answers, but I, I and and I can get better.

Joel: 7:35

But I don’t waste any space in my head about the question of do I belong now with the podcast? It took a while. Less about the interviewing, because I’ve interviewed people my whole life, and more about the logistics. It took a while. Less about the interviewing, because I’ve interviewed people my whole life, and more about the logistics right, how do I record this? Does it sound right? How much time do I have to spend editing and all these things that I wanted to make it perfect. I got comfortable with that and the system that I had in place and the team that over time I was able to build to help me with that.

Joel: 8:02

And then you know the speaking. I’m living in a business world only seven, eight years of doing that, along with my baseball, and I’m comfortable on stage. But there are moments where I say, wait a minute, do I belong here? They’re better speakers, there’s better this. And that’s where I go back to the TV experience and say you’ve been here before and you’re fighting your own battle. No one else is fighting it, but you. How often does imposter syndrome truly originate from outside of your own brain? I think very rarely.

Tim: 8:32

Very rare, very rare. When we spoke a couple weeks ago leading up to this, one of the last things I said to you is I got a lot of pressure on me and the first thing you said was no, you don’t Just be you is. I got a lot of pressure on me and the first thing you said was no, you don’t Just be you. And what I said was that’s just me putting pressure on myself, wanting to be very good at what I do and, like you said, that I think is a sign of a good professional wanting to, to, to be um, better and getting better, and and putting that pressure on yourself. But then give yourself some grace to say I’ve done this before.

Joel: 9:13

Yeah.

Tim: 9:14

And just be you. Just just come out and be you. And to your point is you know, I’ve done not nearly as many interviews as you, but I’ve done hundreds of interviews across my my career. I’ve done not nearly as many interviews as you, but I’ve done hundreds of interviews across my career. It’s the times that I’m not me, that the interviews suck. It’s the times I’m just comfortable and go in and have the conversation and they turn out great.

Joel: 9:36

Just be you, get over that, whatever that inner talk is, and just go be you. And I think, like you know, I remember when you made that comment to me and I’m like in my mind, I’m sitting there thinking like, well, what do you have to be nervous about? Right, you know like what. And so I only mention that because it’s proving the point that both you and I just mentioned. Right, that little voice wasn’t coming from me, Right, it was coming from you.

Joel: 10:13

And if anything, I would say that, and I’ve had a lot of people that have been interviewed, but very, very successful people that maybe haven’t done a lot of interviews, and suddenly it’s you know, if they’re local and they know me, it’s oh my gosh, but I’m going to get interviewed by Joel Goldberg. Maybe, first off, I would tell you that’s not that big of a deal, but, second of all, maybe you’re in better hands because of that, because if you’re being interviewed by me, or if you’re interviewing me, and I’m someone that’s done this a million times, part of what I know how to do is lift people up right it is my job.

Joel: 10:40

I think that the best studio host in all of sports is Ernie Johnson Jr. Yes, and part of what makes him so good is that without him, there’s some replacements for him that do a great job too. But when he’s not there, the dynamic changes, even though the spotlight more than anything is on Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal and, quietly, on Kenny Smith as well. But he has a way of bringing the best out in those guys and it doesn’t take much with them, but in keeping it going. He’s such a professional and that’s what I try to do with with my role as a host and an interviewer.

Joel: 11:17

And so you know your brain went to oh, my gosh, I hope I could live up to, to whatever it is in your mind the expectations, the perception that this guy does it every day. And and I’m gosh, I hope I can live up to whatever it is in your mind the expectations, the perception that this guy does it every day. And I’m putting terrible words in your mouth here, but I’m just an amateur and you’re not, but you know what I mean Like I’ve done this my whole life for 30 years, and then when I had a Bob Costas on my podcast. I’m going through the. Oh my gosh, I’ve got to prove myself to him and I said, said, just go have fun.

Joel: 11:46

Like you’re interviewing your idol, you’re interviewing one of your heroes and, by the way, he was never sitting there thinking I hope this kid’s good enough. He doesn’t meet my expectations. No, he wanted to support me and bring the best out in me, and so that that’s what we all should be doing for each other. And then, when that voice comes in your head, realize that the most destructive piece to this equation is yourself, and there’s a good chance the person on the other end actually is going to help you be better yeah, there’s such good points and you know you like say you’ve done just over a thousand just podcast interviews, let alone all the tv interviews that you’ve done throughout your career.

Tim: 12:26

And so what else have you learned about communication and how has your style or how has your approach changed through the years? Because we talked about how technology has changed and how we have to reach out to younger generations differently and approach them differently, but how has your style changed?

Joel: 12:48

So I think I this is an important question because I think it’ll apply to all of us in whatever we’re doing Certainly speakers, certainly interviewers, but anybody, right? I mean, if you’re meeting with people. I think that there are two ends to this. The one is that you’re I don’t know if I’d call it style, but the way you get to where you need to go has to change and adapt to the times and the people that you’re dealing with. I think it’s extremely important to for lack of a I don’t know a better metaphor you need to be a chameleon for whatever you’re doing. That’s true in sales, that’s true in my job, or whatever you’re doing, that’s true in sales, that’s true in my job. And so I’m going to talk differently to the ballplayer that grew up in rural Mississippi versus the kid that grew up, you know, near South beach, or different than the way that I might correspond with the guy from Venezuela versus the guy that grew up in the suburbs. It’s not going to have anything to do with, you know, financial or economic or anything like that background. It’s going to have to do with the fact that can I find commonality with them and their background, common ground in connecting with them. There are very few athletes that I’m talking to that have a whole lot in common with me. I mean, they’re all athletes and I was never a great athlete and I grew up in the suburbs and the middle-class family and some of them did and some of them didn’t, but I’ve been around enough people. So here’s a great example when I worked in St Louis about nine and a half years and my six years in news there before I got into a regional sports but I mean I was doing sportscasts on the news was not just pro sports and college sports, it was a lot of high school sports, which was the greatest thing because you really meet people in different communities that way. Well, on any given day I could walk into a gym with kids playing basketball that lived down the street in million dollar homes and the next day I could be walking into a public school in the inner city where you’re going through metal detectors and those kids certainly were growing up in different houses and different situations and I I’ve got to adjust to who I’m talking to and what their backgrounds are. And when I find that common ground then I can generally build a little bit more trust and have a more authentic interview.

Joel: 15:15

So that constantly is changing and it’s not just based on socioeconomic status or anything like that. Think about the way, say, a 25, 25-year-old athlete is communicating right now. They might be communicating via Instagram. They might be communicating if they’re from South American or Central American country. We’ve got a lot of Venezuela and Dominican players. Typically, they are going to message you on phone via WhatsApp, versus your typical iPhone, you know, imessage or whatever it’s called nowadays. That’s because of where they’re from the data packages. That is, their text messaging in Central America. So if I want to get their attention, I need to meet them where they are at. So that’s what’s constantly changing and I need to be up on the times. Is there a new social media that they’re all jumping in on and can I follow them there? Because there might be some commonality or something that I see that enables me to speak their language. I’m not talking English, spanish, I’m talking about what’s interesting to them, right.

Joel: 16:24

What never changes is who you are as a person.

Joel: 16:27

What never changes is the inside.

Joel: 16:31

I guess you’d call it this is who I am.

Joel: 16:34

This is who I always am going to be. You can be a chameleon and still stay authentic, right, and so that’s the key to ever-changing communication, and in my world, I joke all the time that the athletes keep getting younger as I keep getting older. Why do they keep getting younger? Because they move on or they retire, and I’m still here. The athletes coming into the big leagues today are totally different in the way they go about their business, totally different in the way they go about their business, the way they communicate what’s important to them in 2025 versus what they were in 2015 or what they were in 2005 or back in 1994 when I got into the business. That will continue to change. It’s not all that different than what you would see in any workplace in any profession. So you hear about Gen Z versus Gen X or boomers or whatever it is. That’s true in sports as well, and we those of us that are older we have to figure out how to meet them there, and when we do, they’ll come meet us where we’re at too.

Tim: 17:38

Absolutely. That’s such a good point. I do, and I’ve told people this for a while. It’s up to us from you know, the quote unquote, older generation to be the ones that are leading the way and reaching out to the younger generations, to where they, to meet them, where they’re at. It’s not up to them to come to us, and if we, if we want to sit over here and say they’ve got to come to us, you know, let me know how that works out for you, because you’re going to be the dinosaur, the ones left behind, that’s right.

Tim: 18:06

And that’s just. That’s just the way that it is. You know, you mentioned the word trust, and trust to me is is paramount in in everything, relationships and trust to me it’s the number one thing in in life period. It’s the number one thing in life period In what you do. Trust is so important because if you lose the trust of one athlete, you lose the locker room. So true.

Joel: 18:37

So true, we’ll spell this out to any profession too. If you lose the trust of whoever the influential person is in an organization the CEO, the head of you know sales, whatever it is then you really have a lot of work to do. And, yes, you need to earn everyone’s trust. But it does start from the top for me. So, for instance, with the Kansas city Royals the team that I’ve covered now for 18 seasons most of those 18 seasons, not all, but minus my first 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, no 8, 9, 10. So 18 seasons about 15 with Salvador Perez, who is their, I believe, but most likely future Hall of Famer. He’s 34 years old. He broke into the big leagues at 21. He became a superstar. He’s the captain of the team. There are some younger players that are emerging as the next superstars and he would say that it’s their team, but everyone on that team would tell you it is Salvador Perez’s team. It all starts with him.

Joel: 19:47

So if something is wrong or something’s not right, yes, I can go on a one-to-one basis with a player or coach or whatever it is, but if it’s something bigger than that, if there’s something going on, I’m going right to him and it’s happened before. We have the type of relationship where he could pull me aside and say hey, I need to talk to you about something. This is bothering me. Or some of the guys are talking and this is going on Private conversations that I wouldn’t reveal the specifics to but I know that we have that relationship where, if he sees something that is wrong on my end, on my team’s end, whatever it is, that he’s going to come to me and I believe that, as long as he, as long as he feels like he is being heard and that it is being addressed and that I have best interests in hand. By the way, that doesn’t mean saying that they’re playing great when they’re struggling. It means being fair, it means being authentic.

Joel: 20:48

Like I talked about before, if something is not right which, by the way, he may not be right, they may not be right, but their perception is all that matters and it’s their world. I’m just living in it, even if those names change over time. If he and I have that relationship and I believe we do to talk about those things and address those things and make sure we’re on the same page which, by the way, comes with some language barrier and cultural difference too he’s from Venezuela. If I have that covered, then not that it’s a guarantee, but that’s where it starts Right. And if he has my back, which comes from the trust that you talk about, then I’ve got a great starting point, because what happens is when new players come in, he tells them this guy’s okay, or they observe my interactions with him, which, by the way, come with a lot of uh of, of giving me grief over things and and messing with me all the time, like that’s part of trust too, is that if you, if you respect someone, you can pull pranks and mess with them all the time. If the intent is to have fun, if the intent is to embarrass them, then there really isn’t trust at all.

Joel: 21:58

Right, and so with him and with me, it’s a great back and forth. Everybody sees that in front of the camera, off the camera, in the clubhouse, on the field, on the bus, whatever it is, on the plane, and so it starts with that and that to me, tim, it’s not in the job description, it’s not in the courses you take to starting to become one of these. You know, journalists, broadcasters, whatever. The trust piece is what I do every single day that I’m at the ballpark and then, oftentimes, when I’m not at the ballpark, little touch points. That’s the job right there. It starts with that. Yes, you need talent. Yes, you need this, this, this, this, but if you can’t do that piece, you got nothing.

Tim: 22:39

You got nothing and and you, you mentioned there’s there’s that you have to be authentic and there’s that fine line of of you know and this goes for for really any relationship you know, if something’s not right, you have to say that you’re doing what your job entails and you’re doing what you think is best and then maybe sorting it out later and having that understanding.

Tim: 23:13

But you’re never going to have that understanding if you don’t have trust to begin with. And you know, having tough conversations is, to me, it’s one of the things that actually builds trust, because we can’t always I don’t know anybody who wants a yes person around them all the time oh, you’re great, you’re great, you’re great, you’re great Because that number one, it doesn’t make anything truly better and number two, it’s not being honest. So you don’t really have any trust. So you’ve got to be able to have those tough conversations and be okay with it and be able to move forward got to be able to have those tough conversations and be okay with it and be able to move forward.

Joel: 23:52

I agree, and they don’t all have to be tough either. I mean it’s just, but I think that those conversations become easier. It goes both ways.

Tim: 23:56

I mean those conversations become easier because you’ve built trust and you build better trust because you have those conversations. So I think they go hand in hand. And you were searching for a job and how you went about, you know saying, well, I’m going to be in the area, you got time for me. Number one, that’s. That’s an ingenious way to to build an audience. But the things that I really enjoyed was your throughing binder, how you would go and you would. You would take notes and then be able to refer back to them to help build connections and build relationships, and I think that’s something you know. I kind of do the same thing If I go and meet somebody, I’ll take notes and I’ll put it into the contact. Oh, you know what? You know one of the things you said you were going on vacation. How was vacation? And I think that’s something that’s actually lost on the younger generations today that act and I’ll give a little bit more detail.

Joel: 25:20

You read about it in the first book. But that act of knocking on doors and cold calling is what got me in this business and I don’t think, if I hadn’t done that, I don’t know what my career is. It’s not this. I’m certainly not talking to you. I don’t have 30 years in TV. I don’t know that I’m writing books and hosting podcasts and any of that stuff. But what happened was and you know what, when I look back at it now, yeah, it actually was a kind of ingenious move. I didn’t know that at the time and it was desperation for me because I was something like oh for 25.

Joel: 26:03

In my attempts to get a job in TV, I was mailing out tapes. In my attempts to get a job in TV, I was mailing out tapes, and nowadays, for anyone wanting to be in TV, you’re just sending a link to YouTube. It’s so much easier, but so is everybody else. So back then, everybody was sending a resume tape in the mail. Now everybody’s sending a link to a resume reel. Great, what sets you apart? The question I like to ask people all the time is what makes you different? And if your insurance company or your bank has so much better rates than everyone else, then I guess that’s it, but in all likelihood it’s probably pretty similar, right? So if that’s the case, what sets you apart? And so for me it’s not like I said well, if I go knocking on doors, I’m going to get this. It’s not like I said, well, if I go knocking on doors, I’m going to get this. But what I did know, and I don’t to this day. I don’t know if anyone gave me this suggestion or not. If they do, I don’t remember it. I would have thanked them profusely. But I think it was just desperation of saying you know what, if I don’t figure this out and I’m not getting a sniff, and we’ll take it from there. And it’s not really what my dream was or what I studied for. But okay.

Joel: 27:14

So I started calling TV stations and smaller markets I know I couldn’t get in to start in the bigger ones and I would ask for the news director. There weren’t really websites yet and I think I had a recorded or written copy on a piece of paper of a script calling from my parents landline in their bedroom, so that I wasn’t in the kitchen, so that I wouldn’t be distracted, and I’d read off this thing. Hi, my name is Joel Goldberg. Mr Smith, nice to meet you. I just graduated from the University of Wisconsin.

Joel: 27:49

I know you don’t have any openings right now, which, by the way, in hindsight, I think was a little bit of a of of a smart move too, because if they were getting phone calls it was hey, I want to see if you have any openings. Well, that gets annoying in his shoes or her shoes every single time. So instead of already asking a question that you should have known the answer for, I was saying I know you don’t have anything, I’m not hitting you up for that, but I’m passing through town next week. Would you be around at any point next Tuesday, wednesday or Thursday? And if so, could I stop in and hand deliver a tape and introduce myself in person?

Joel: 28:27

I was never going to any of those towns until they said yes. And as soon as they said yes, I got in my car, I drove across the country. I then tried to double down, triple down, quadruple down on any of those markets, or any markets close, and said hey, I am passing through town on these days, could I stop by? And suddenly a trip from Chicago to upstate New York wasn’t just one station, it was four or five stations and and suddenly it was 20, 25, 30 stations and keeping copious notes and following up with thank you notes and not being too annoying, and then suddenly, as they got job openings, I moved to the top of the line. I was not better than anyone else. I would argue that I might’ve been worse than many others. I wasn’t that talented. I had the passion, the desire, the work ethic, but what I did was I opened up my own doors when no doors were open and then they said come on in. And that’s where I proved myself.

Tim: 29:23

Yeah, and it’s so important. What I don’t think a lot of people truly understand is there are so many people out there applying for the same jobs that you are. Just think about it from the college perspective. You went to the University of Wisconsin. You sat in a class of I don’t know 50 or 60 other students. You graduated with 1,000 plus, and they’re all applying for jobs. That’s just one institution. That’s just one institution in one state. Yeah, and there’s so many people applying for these jobs.

Tim: 30:01

You have to make yourself stand out and you know, just in the sports industry as an example, right, you know everything is done online. Like you said, let’s just take a sales job for, let’s just say, kansas City. Kansas City is going to put a job on a listserv. They’re going to get 5,000 or 6,000 resumes for a job that pays them $30,000 a year, them $30,000 a year. How are you going to make yourself stand out in that crowd and marketplace?

Tim: 30:35

And sometimes you have to do things that are really outside the box to be seen, and part of that for you was driving across country. You know, for somebody else it could be, you know, doing informational interviews, it could be, you know, doing informational interviews. It could be, you know, meeting at a networking event, you know when are they going to be there. Actually paying for a ticket and going to a game and running into somebody. It could be any of those things that are going to make you stand out, that’s going to put you to the top of the list. And then, even when you submit that resume, it still has to be perfect.

Joel: 31:13

I mean, I think that’s the name of the game for just about everything. And, for instance, I’ll have a young student and again, this can apply to any profession any age that will say, well, I say young student, I mean an aspiring broadcaster that’s maybe in college or even high school. I got to go cover the blah, blah, blah and you know, the SEC basketball tournament and I got to interview all these cool people. Great, it’s very unlikely Anyone’s going to hire you because of that Right now. Enjoy that and then get back to school and make sure you’re doing everything, not just the basketball, because one it’s the reps. And again, this is true for any profession. We get fixated on wanting to do the biggest things, the things that bring the most money, the most high profile. Whatever it is the big project, and, yes, that’s ultimately what we want to be doing. It is the big project and, yes, that’s ultimately what we want to be doing, but you don’t really get there. That young student interviewing the star of the game in a big college basketball game, that might be the moment that gets them the job, but in all likelihood, in the grand scheme of things, is just a small piece of the puzzle. Right, that made you better.

Joel: 32:29

I talked about imposter syndrome. Well, when you have less imposter syndrome, you’re more confident. It’s just another notch on the belt. But my question would be this while you were there covering the fill in the blank the sec tournament did you meet some people in network? Did you? Did you meet some people? Because, guess what, for the most part, those athletes aren’t going to recommend you, but the sports information people, the camera crew, might talk about what a joy you were to work with and your reputation, and so all these breadcrumbs that you’re leaving that also potentially lead you to more connections.

Joel: 33:08

I always like to say it this way you never know when you’re going to say it this way. You never know when you’re going to meet your next boss, or you never know when you’re going to meet the person that introduces you to your next boss. And so, to me, every opportunity has to involve a chance to build relationships and network. It’s what I do more often than than anything with my business, and certainly it’s what I’m doing most days when I I go into a baseball clubhouse. I might need a soundbite or two, I might need a nugget or two for an in-game story, but for the most part. I’m catching up, I’m connecting with people, I’m building relationships.

Joel: 33:39

And when you go back and talking about those numbers, I don’t know how many people were in my graduating class at Wisconsin. Yeah, there might have been 50 or 60 people in a classroom. The smaller journalism classes might have had 20. But there were thousands and thousands in my graduating class. That’s a big school and I like to say it this way and I don’t know the numbers. But let’s say that back in 1994, there were 10,000 kids around the country graduating from some kind of program. They might not have even been kids and they all wanted a TV job. And let’s say that there were 10,000 people that wanted that job and there are only a hundred jobs available and I would argue that it was probably more than 10,000. And the number of jobs available on TV was probably less than a hundred.

Joel: 34:25

In realistic markets, how am I in that 1%? You better be the smoothest, greatest fill in the blanket. Whatever you’re doing at a young age. You better be so much better than anyone else that the the recruiter or the employer says, oh my gosh, this is the greatest thing I’ve ever seen. Guess what Most of us aren’t, that Most of us, in sports terms are not Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant or LeBron James or Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes and, by the way, tom Brady or Albert Pujols were not thought of that way to start anyway, until they became that. But if you don’t have that which is most of us, those are the outliers then you better do something to set yourself apart.

Joel: 35:11

The fact that I became one of those 1%, or whatever the number is above everybody else, was me basically knocking the door down and creating those opportunities. Have I been lucky in my career? Absolutely, but I think a lot of the luck had to do with creating those opportunities. And then, as I often say to people, tim, take every open door, whether somebody opens it for you or you open it for yourself, and then it’s up to you to stay. And that is how you go about your business, the way you treat people, how reliable you are, authenticity, everything we talked about before. Take every open door, open every door, and then it’s up to you to stay.

Tim: 35:52

Absolutely. And again, you’re right on. And there’s another chapter in your I believe it was in the first book about reading the room, about when to ask questions and when to not ask questions, when to push, when to push forward, when to set step back. Um, and uh, I think the story was about, uh, mike Moustakis uh, that was that was in the book. Um, you could tell he wasn’t having a bad day, but you needed something from him, but you got it. You got what you needed from from a different source. Tell, tell that story, cause I cause I think it’s it’s critical to understand. Yeah, we, we want to, as especially as young professor professionals, we want to be hard charging and go after things and go after things and go after things, but we also have to learn that there’s a time to take a breath, take a step back and read the room.

Joel: 36:45

It’s. I feel like at some point that read the room expression probably got overdone which I wish it wasn’t, because I haven’t figured out a better expression for it and I think it’s one of the most important characteristics that you can have in almost any profession. Look, there are some professions where certain jobs don’t involve as much interaction. Think about someone that’s job is coding, some kind of programming engineer. That they’re not out there on the front lines, I would argue it still matters, because if they can build trust in a relationship with the business development person, that could better than understand their needs and they can understand each other. So I do think it applies for everyone, but in certainly in my, in my case, where I need like to me the sale. I’m not sure that I’m a salesman. I mean, I’m certainly trying to sell my speaking services, my books, uh, but more than anything, what I’m trying to sell is these players, coaches and staff, the opportunity to interview them. Yeah, and those sometimes can be some big time interviews. You know whether it’s someone I know or someone that I don’t really know that well, and it’s that Bob Costas podcast where it’s like, wow, this is the opportunity of a lifetime, or it could just be the day-to-day with a player, and I intentionally overthink every bit of it and I don’t think I do it in a debilitating way. I don’t think I do it in a debilitating way. I could probably save some brain cells and use some of that limited space up there on something else. But for the most part, I think it’s time well spent. And here’s what I mean by reading body language I’m not a body language expert by reading the room. When you understand when is the right time, when you consistently do that, people are more likely to say yes to you. Yes, and when you don’t have the ability to do that, or you choose not to do it or you’re oblivious to it, then you build a reputation of potentially being a nuisance or you potentially become the guy, the girl that when you walk in and someone sees you whether that be someone you’re selling to or, in my world, the player and they see you coming, there’s some version, whether it’s subliminal or not, of oh gosh, here we go again.

Joel: 39:30

And so the Mike Moustakas story is there was a day that I walked into our clubhouse, the locker room. It was at home in Kansas City, I don’t know how many years ago it was, and Mike Moustakas was the star, slugging third baseman, recently retired and an intense personality, good guy but very intense. And you understand that, just like any other team, profession group that you’re involved in, that everybody has different personalities. Yes, you got your extroverts, you got your introverts, you got your guys that are chill, you got those that are intense. So one you got to understand how people are wired and if you spend enough time around them, you understand that you need take notes, at least mental notes, of what works and what doesn’t for them.

Joel: 40:17

So, for instance, we had a star named Alex Gordon. Alex would never say no to an interview, although he was pretty reserved and quiet, but he was very regimented with his workouts and his routine. If I did anything to get in the way of that routine, that was that eye roll, that was that not reading the room, that was him saying oh, I don’t want to do this again. But I always made it a point to recognize the pace of what he was walking through a room. If he looked like he was walking into the room, to not go sit down at his locker this is before the game or we’re open in there for a while but he looks like he’s going in there because he left one thing on his chair and he’s in and out and you can read that by their pace.

Joel: 40:59

It’s probably not a good time to ask him to do something. And you know what people hate to do or maybe not hate, but are uncomfortable doing they’re uncomfortable. No, when you can put people in a comfortable spot, they will come back to you almost every time, and when that becomes your reputation they don’t even need to think about it. So in Mike Moustakis’ case, intense, certainly willing to do interviews. He might not say yes to everyone, but most of them I know all that already. My producer that day for our pregame show had said can you get a soundbite from mike moustakis on I don’t know what the topic was on on his success of hitting to the opposite field lately? Sure, I walk into the room, I see him. He’s there. There’s the first win for me. He’s in there. I don’t have to go ask him where he’s at, because if he’s in the shower I’m not going in there if he’s in the training room, I’m not allowed in there.

Joel: 41:50

If he’s in the food room, I’m not allowed in there. If he’s in the batting. But if he’s in there, I got a chance, okay. Now I look at him and he’s frantically texting on his phone or something like that, and he looks very distracted. All right, I’m going to kind of observe him from a distance and if that seems to calm down and I could see body language that he’s relaxed, then I’m going to go up to him and ask him if he has a moment. But he never got there and I made a decision that you know what. This does not look like a good time. So now I need to ask myself the question how important is this? Well, I just need a soundbite. It’s 30 seconds, that’s quick, that’s easy. But you know what? I can get that answer from the hitting coach, right, I just need to know what he’s doing right lately that’s made him be successful with this. It could come from the coach, it could come from the manager, it could even come from another teammate, if need be. I have a lot of other options that are going to protect my relationship with him, whether he knows it or not. So I made the decision to pass and get the hitting coach instead.

Joel: 42:52

Now I watch another member of the media, one that doesn’t have I don’t even remember who it was but the access, or they’re not there as often as me. They’re there maybe once a week because they’ve got other things that they do. This is all I do. Well, he walks up to Moose Dawkus, nicknamed Moose, and says hey, moose, you got a minute. And in my head I’m like he doesn’t have a minute. Look at him. And Moose stands up, grabs a bat and kind of walks briskly past the guy. He goes nope, got to run. And the guy says well, you can’t blame me for trying, can you? And moose, kind of who didn’t know the guy very well. Anyway, he was hands up in the air like okay, and I thought victory for me, because that would have been my fate, even though I had a better relationship with him.

Joel: 43:39

A week later I need another sound bite from him. And we’re on the road in minnesota maybe a week later and it didn’t have to be him either and I see him. He’s out before batting practice, sitting by himself in the dugout, looking real relaxed, just kind of taking it all in, and I said hey, moose, do you have a second to do a quick 30, you know 30 seconds or something like that. He said sure, and then I just left him a little bit of a hint. I said you know, I actually wanted to get you last week back at home but you looked really busy and I didn’t want to slow you down or distract you. You look like you had some other things going on. He goes oh thanks, I really appreciate that. And then he did it.

Joel: 44:15

And they’re not sitting there saying joel gets this right every time, so I’ll do it, or joel doesn’t get. But there’s something in their head that says, oh, that guy, or oh, yeah, he’s a good guy and so it’s understanding. And then, piece of that, tim, is that there’s some guys that will always say yes, no matter what they like it, they’re good at it, they just they, they enjoy it. But you know what? There are going to be some days where I say, yeah, that’s easy. But you know what I’ve gotten in the last two days? I’ve got him the last three days. I I’ve got him the last three days. I’m going to take a little break here, whether he needs it or not, so that I’m not the guy that every single time and then you follow that, your instincts and the body language, the reading the room. It works almost every time.

Tim: 45:01

Yeah, it’s so important. And that also kind of leads into the trust, the relationship, the whole idea of now you’re part of the team, the relationship, the whole idea of now you’re, you’re part of the team, right, you’re, you’re part, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re not Joe Goldberg, the announcer, you’re part of the team, you’re, you’re part of the organization, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re with them, right. And that that kind of showed in in a kind of a another situation in your second book uh, your, your chapter about your mom and that she was in a horrific scenario, um, horrible 4th of July shooting in in Chicago, and and, uh, I believe it was Nikki Lopez kind of knew what was going on and he texted you and basically said anything for a teammate, anything for family, and that spoke to me again because it’s the relationship, it’s the we’re in this together, we’re a family. But it all starts from the whole idea of trust 100%, and you know I’m very careful.

Joel: 46:15

I think that a lot of sports fans or whatever you’re a fan of, you know, a great music group, uh, Hollywood celebrity, whatever we sometimes build these people up to be more than they are and while they might know they’re superstars, some act like it, some don’t, and they’re you know they’re they get the spoils of their fame Right, and so they’re used to being treated in a way that gives them a lot of benefits. But what they want more than anything is to be treated on a human level, as a normal person. And so I always say to you know, like a fan, when they say, well, what’s it like to interview, it’s great. But they’re just people, they’re living extraordinary circumstances. And so for me, on that day, you know my, my parents were in a parade, there was a shooting in suburb of Chicagourb of Chicago, and I got the message.

Joel: 47:11

I write about this in my most recent book, a chapter on my mom. And I got the message 4th of July, baseball, I think, later afternoon game in Houston. And so I’m out walking around town trying to sweat a little bit, which didn’t take much walking in.

Joel: 47:26

July in Houston and I get a text from my mom that there was a, you know, a shooting and everything’s okay, and it didn’t really register on me the way we are with shootings now that like no, no, no, that’s just like. She was walking. I didn’t know all the details, so later she was walking in the parade towards the shooter and was about a block and a half from him and, you know, as I got to work, it started to sink in a little bit more and then I went through this whole. I don’t like I’m going to do my job. I’ve done shows before after emotional deaths and you know we lost our colleague and a mentor of mine in 2011, paul Splittorf, who was, you know, one of my broadcast teammates and the Royals all-time wins leader, and we lost him to cancer and I had to host the whole pregame show that made the announcement of his death and then the pregame show that honored him for 30 minutes, and I thought I don’t know how I’m going to get through this thing, you know, without crying. And so those are. Those are hard moments, but also a privilege to do it. Well, on this day. It wasn’t about the privilege, it was about survival because like oh, I, I love baseball, I love what I do, and baseball on the fourth of july I mean, you know not to get too cheesy here, but it’s some version every year of happy fourth of july and welcome into america’s pastime, as we, you know, bring you into into Houston for Royals Live. Nothing better than baseball on Independence Day.

Joel: 48:53

Well, I didn’t say any of that that day. I couldn’t, I couldn’t get myself there, and so I just had to get through it and I did, and nobody at home probably would have known. Maybe I looked a little more down, I don’t know, and I had told Nicky what happened, or maybe he had asked because he knew my family was from there and he was so touched by it. And then I remember sitting at the hotel bar that night by myself, because I, I just I didn’t want to go out anywhere. I just, I just wanted to sit. I needed to get out of the room. You know, nice hotel, fancy hotel, overped cheeseburger, overpriced glass of wine. The poor bartender, young kid, made the mistake. She said to me how’s your day going? I’m like you know, and I, and I told her.

Joel: 49:39

And then I see Nikki. He’s in the lobby near the bar with two other teammates and he walks over and gives me a big hug and says how are you doing? Tells a what had happened. And that’s where you say this is so much more than baseball, it’s humanity. And that night I sent him a text late and I said hey, I just want to thank you for you know, caring and reaching out.

Joel: 49:59

And that’s where he said, as you just said, you know, hey, we’re all family, we’re all part of part of the family and that’s that’s what ended up happening and and so, like I don’t, there are players we’ve had over the years that I consider friends of mine but, like when you talk about being part of the team, when I say friends not close friends by design on my part, they don’t. They got enough friends, they got enough people, they got enough family, they got enough people in their universe. I don’t need to be that and it’s not a conflict of interest, it’s just a respective space and kind of back to what we were talking about before, not not being the eye roll, not being the guy that can’t read the room, and so I work hard at those relationships. I’m part of the family. I’ve had guys like Alex Gordon, one of the Royals, greats of all time, say that you are my favorite because of the way that you went about your business. You are one of us. I’ve had Eric Hosmer, one of the great leaders and Royals of all time, say you’re, you’re my favorite because we always respected you in the way you went about your business.

Joel: 50:53

It’s nothing more than that to me, and I don’t mean to minimize it. I just mean that I don’t then view that as I’m one of them. They are in this very select, unique fraternity and when I say select, there are 26 players on a roster. There are not many people in the world that are doing what they’re doing. They deserve their own fraternity. Whatever it’s called I think it’s called right major league baseball player. I happen to live in that ecosystem, I happen to live in that world and I and I know how to live in that world. That piece of humanity from nicky lopez that day he’s one of the best I’ve ever worked with reminded me of what I already knew. But it doesn’t then give me the license to say let’s be best friends. Let me go hang out and sit with you guys in the food room. Let me go sit at your locker and be. I’m not that I’ve got my own world Right, and so it’s recognizing all of this and putting it all together.

Tim: 51:46

Yeah, it’s. It’s so important to understand that on many different levels. Number one they are human, and you know they. They get it when, when human things happen. And it’s funny because people think that everybody that’s working in sports is it’s this glamorous, you highfalutin, luxurious thing, and it’s so far from the truth, for you know the people that aren’t athletes. It’s work, I mean it’s work. We get up every day. I mean, could you imagine?

Tim: 52:25

People don’t truly understand this, and baseball is probably the best example. You know, think of the ticket salesperson. You know they’re there every day. If there is a homestand, guess what? They’re there every day. They’re there way before the game starts. They’re there after the game is over. You may be there until 12, 31 o’clock in the morning, and then on Tuesday and then Wednesday. You still have to be back in the office at 8, 39 o’clock doing your regular job, getting ready for the next game and all those other types of things. It’s not what people truly think that it is, but we still have to do it and keep that life, like you say, keep that life separated. You’re, you may be friendly, but you’re not necessarily friends because, like I said, you don’t.

Joel: 53:11

It’s not your world, it’s not our world, it’s, but it’s but this is what it is, as, when my book came out and I reached out to you know a lot of people, uh, whether they were in the book, for sure, or past podcast guests or people in my network that I thought might be interested in the book and selfishly, might be willing to promote it for me and I don’t ask a lot, of, a lot of lot of people. But that that, to me, was a moment where I wanted to cash in some of my chips, and that involved sending it to a select amount of players. Nicky Lopez was one of them, because he had been featured in that chapter, and so I sent it out to him and then I didn’t hear back. And that’s fine, he’s trying to make a spring training roster, trying to make a team in spring training. And then I heard back from him a few weeks after he initiated it.

Joel: 54:06

And you know, you don’t ever want to be the one that initiates every single conversation, every single text. If it’s always starting from you, something’s wrong, or maybe it’s just not what you think it is, or it’s not, it’s just not there, right, I mean? And so I’m always careful to not be continuously bothering people or doing that. So he got the book. Great, um, that’s it. And then a few weeks later I got a text from him just saying hey, I’m sorry I I been busy I didn’t get a chance to reach out, but thanks for sending. I’m about to start reading it right now. Thank you so much. We caught up on some things. I wished him well. He’s trying to make a team. He’s maybe in a little flux at the moment. I said hey, you deserve it. Keep me up to date, or if there’s anything I can do, let me know.

Tim: 54:56

And that’s it.

Joel: 54:59

I treasure those relationships. I know what they are, as we just talked about, right, I treasure the fact that those guys see me. We started the podcast talking a little bit about authenticity and you know, and, and, while being the chameleon still staying true to yourself. I treasure the fact that what those guys say about me is what I aspire to be myself, to be real. But again, I’m not going to then say, well, because they respect me, because they said this hey, let’s go on family trips together, let’s do it.

Joel: 55:33

It’s not that, and you’re right, it’s all work. It’s work for them, it’s work for me, it’s work for the usher, it’s whoever’s there, right, and you just hope for everyone. It’s not true for everyone. You hope that it’s the best work yes, it is work, but it’s the best work, at least for me and that those relationships, those stories that’s why I like to share these inspirational stories, because hopefully it it makes people better or inspires people or brings somebody something Right those relationships and sharing that insight, hopefully in a way that maybe gives people a different perspective beyond what goes on. Uh, in between the lines, right, Hopefully that that all is I don’t know leads to a greater purpose.

Tim: 56:19

Yeah, and that’s that, and isn’t that the bottom line for everything?

Joel: 56:23

Totally.

Tim: 56:24

We want to help people and help move them forward, give them hope, give them something that’s going to help move their life forward. And I think, at least for myself, that’s God’s work. That’s what we do. I had a conversation just literally just yesterday. Somebody reached out and said look, you know that’s what I do. I help people. If you need help, let me know, I’ll do it. I’ll do whatever I can for you. And they said well, you don’t have time. I said don’t worry about what I’ve got time for.

Tim: 57:00

I decided what I’ve got time for, yeah, yeah, you know, and you know that’s that’s, that’s why that’s why we’re here. And you know from you know, sports, sports, it’s, it’s, it’s what everybody sees. And I hope that people you know that are not in this world, in this industry, have that same feeling for their careers that we do. You know the passion that it’s the best work for them. It’s the. You know, whatever industry you choose to get into, and that’s one of the things I used to tell my students I don’t really care what you get into, I want you to be happy, I want you to get into and that’s one of the things I used to tell my students I don’t really care what you get into.

Tim: 57:42

I want you to be happy, I want you to be healthy and I want you to be a productive member of society and if you can do those things, you’re going to be successful.

Joel: 57:52

Yeah and I don’t want to be naive or insensitive here a lot of people are never going to find their dream job or that job like it’s very easy to say, oh that’s, that’s great goldberg. I mean, you get paid to go talk about baseball every single day. Try getting a real job right and and and and. I get that. And, by the way and I don’t think anyone’s insinuating that it’s not a real job but I get it Like, yeah, I work as hard as everybody else. I happen to have a lot of exposure because of the nature of what I do. I don’t think it makes me any more important than anyone else, but I do have an incredibly fun, gratifying job, well beyond just getting to watch baseball.

Joel: 58:44

The relationships we’re talking about, the impact on people’s lives, and I could go on and on with that. But I think that there are always little silver linings to find, and so if you’re not where you want to be, if this is not what makes you happy, what can you find? Because, look, sometimes we have to do what enables us to survive. Sometimes we have to be able to do what puts food on the table, what pays for a medical bill, what keeps the heat on whatever it is like. We’re all going through different things and we’re all going through something. So I’m not going to sit there and tell somebody, go find your passion, when right now you just need to survive. But I think that there are little things that you could find every day, and it might just be in a connection, it might be in a relationship, uh, it might be in helping someone, it might be in putting a smile on someone’s face. Whatever it is, there are little victories and moments that we have to be able to take, because that’s the oxygen that enables you to keep on going. And look, I’ve got bad days too. It’s very easy for me to sit there and say I’ll suck it up. Here in baseball, everything is good and, yes, that helps.

Joel: 59:57

Look, I covered 106 lost season two years ago and to me, the relationships still were the saving grace. I’ve made this. I mentioned paul splitt, or if one of my mentors that passed away in 2011. He taught me to not let the effects of a baseball game affect my output and my mood easier said than done, especially for a sports fan, but I know now that in that 106 lost season the second worst season in franchise history I understood how to not let that affect my job and when we can rule out the things that we have no control over and focus on what we can control. I know that sounds very cliche.

Joel: 1:00:43

You tend to be able to find more meaning in what you’re doing, and so, if you don’t get pulled down those bad rabbit holes and focus on what can I do to bring value today, what can I do to make somebody’s life better or, whatever it is, make my own life better, for that matter. That, to me, is what gets me through the tough days, and in 162 game season we’ll do anywhere from 150 to 160 games, depending on national demand of pulling games from us. We are going to have tough stretches, whether it’s losses or something going on at home, or I’m just burned out because we’ve had games. 18 of the last 19 games that’s 18 games is 36 shows pre-imposed, plus the in-game stuff.

Joel: 1:01:29

Uh and again, yes, life’s easy, but oh, by the. Our life is good, I’m doing this, but oh, by the way, this broke at home and you know, something’s going on with this kid and somebody’s sick here and I’m on the road and I can’t help like, yeah, I’m dealing with stuff too, but when I find those silver linings, when I find something that can bring me or someone else joy. That’s the, that’s that injector, that’s that fuel, that’s that oxygen that keeps us going. And that’s what I try to do every day, which kind of separates the game and the baseball from it right.

Tim: 1:02:05

So, and that’s really good advice for people again, it doesn’t really matter what industry you get into. It’s you got to, you got to figure out what, like what you said. That that’s silver lining, because we’re all going through something at any given point in any given day. So tell us about your two books. You know I read them, I love them, I love the stories. I mean you’re talking with Kevin Euclid and his micro-brew. I mean love that. I mean all really good and inspiring, inspiring stories.

Joel: 1:02:40

So tell us a little bit about books so the the small ball concept, at least what I’m calling the small ball concept if you’re a baseball fan, you know small ball is is the little things. It’s the bunt, it’s, it’s the sacrifice, it’s moving the runner over, it’s the stuff that you do in baseball but I would say, in any profession in life, that may not show up in the box score, the score sheet, the sales sheet, the company numbers, but it is what leads to you being successful or not being successful. Small ball. I like to ask audiences, and certainly my podcast guests, what is small ball to you? What are the little things? And so when I went to write my first book during the pandemic, I thought I’ve had hundreds and hundreds of guests that have answered the question what is small ball? And I I decided to break that down into the topics that I found to be the most common and the most relevant things like building trust We’ve talked a lot about that. Reading the room, that’s another one. What are all these little things that you can do every day in any profession that are going to make you better? I’m not teaching you how to be better at insurance or better banker, better educator, a better electrician, uhian, and on and on and on. But I think all of these I guess we could call them soft skills, but I call it small ball.

Joel: 1:04:05

That was the first book, and so it was 13 different small ball topics with two stories that demonstrated that One was a baseball story, one was a business story and I thought I’d be a little bit cute with it. And so every chapter was an inning and so we had the top of the first and the bottom of the first. And you know, chapter four, I think, was trust, top of the fourth, bottom of the fourth. And one of those chapters was my it’s really one of my signature stories my struggles to earn legendary superstar Albert Pujols’ trust. And it took me until my seventh year with him to get there, why it went wrong, what I learned from it, how I could have done it better. And the other half of that fourth inning was the CEO of H&R Block, who takes over an iconic company. How do you build trust as the new guy in a position where there have been a bunch of different CEOs and a lot of turnover and and taking this you know franchise or this um organization you know, into into present times while still honoring their past? So it was a lot of that book. Number two, small ball, big dreams was less about how to get there and more about the grit and resilient stories of people that did get there.

Joel: 1:05:17

Whether that be my mom, who was told coming out of college back in I think, the 60s I won’t give an exact date because she would not be happy with me, of course but she was told, like a lot of women in that generation, that women coming out of college can get a job in nursing or teaching. Those are the options. By the way, I wrote a chapter on Susan Waldman, who was really the first female voice on talk radio in New York and the first woman in the broadcast booth, you know, in the actual booth calling games in Major League Baseball. She’s been a longtime Yankees announcer. She is incredible. She is around the same age as my mom. They’re in their 70s and she, when I told her the story about my mom, said she cut me off before I could say teacher or nurse. And I said my mom was told that when you get out of school you could only be, and she said teacher or nurse. I said yes, she had the same thing, and so their stories.

Joel: 1:06:23

Inan’s case she was on broadway and eventually got to a point where she was getting a little bit older. She didn’t want to be the typecast mom in every single show and and so she’d been singing anthems at games because really she had the voice to do it and it gave her a free in to baseball and sporting events. She was a diehard sports fan. She ended up going through hell being in sports radio to start and being frozen out and blackballed by everyone else in the media covering the yankees and the mets and just all kinds of awful things and now she’s one of the most respected voices on radio in in all of baseball and sports, and I consider her an inspiration. My mom similar story and my mom did end up being a music teacher and then, when she had my brother and me, she stopped working, did private piano lessons, all that, and she went back to school. She went back to community college as we got a little bit older and got a degree and she studied what would now be called coding but computer programming, and then was working for companies helping build coding programs and eventually with a company that was trading stocks and bonds. After we moved to Chicago and that company was bought out by this bank and that bank and eventually Bank of America, and by the end she was traveling the world and in a leadership position and in corporate America nothing that she was ever told she could do.

Joel: 1:07:45

The crux of this book to me, tim, because I think there’s a lot of you know, I just think where we’ve always heard you could do anything you want. You know, dream of anything and you know anything can be true. Dream of anything and you know anything can be true. And and I believe that for the most part but these people all achieve their dreams because they played small ball and did the little things right. The other piece to it is that very rarely do these dreams turn out the way we thought, and that doesn’t have to be a bad thing. And so there’s a lot in this book about adversity, grit, resilience and changing paths and the ever evolving journey that so many of us take in and out of sports and baseball. There’s no way, growing up, that you thought you’d be hosting a podcast because in part one didn’t exist.

Joel: 1:08:37

Neither did I you know, in part one didn’t exist, didn’t exist, did I? You know? I wanted to be on tv. I wanted to be either the play-by-play guy or the sports guy on the news. Well, the path that I took was the sports guy on the news and eventually I landed in a role as sideline reporter and pre and post game show host. When we were growing up, tim, sideline reporters only really existed, or you know, sideline reporters, ringside reporters, on-field reporters that only existed in a big national game, and pre and post game show hosts happened on, say, the weekly NBA game or the week you know, and now that’s, that’s everywhere.

Joel: 1:09:16

So I could have never envisioned this. The dreams, the purpose, the aspirations change. Hopefully, as I said before, who you are remains the same, although you evolve. As you evolve, you stay authentic, but you, you learn, you know what you learn and and, and hopefully, you get better because of it. But that’s what this book is. This book is all about dreams, resilience, grit and in many ways follows the path of my whole career too, while still mostly focusing on others.

Tim: 1:09:47

And I would suggest everybody get both of them and read them. They’re incredible stories and when I grew up I always wanted to be a teacher. But I tell people, if I had to do it over again, I’d either want to be a peanut vendor at a ball game or a mascot. You know, you know, being a mascot for a, for a franchise number one, it’s hard, but people don’t realize that’s hard work too, um, and that that whole thing has has evolved over the last 30 years, but it’s, it’s entertaining people, it’s helped, it’s you know what, what? What those mascots do? They help people, they entertain people and it’s, it’s a. It’s a. It’s a different way of of of reaching out and touching people and bringing them into the organization 100%.

Joel: 1:10:37

It’s no different than what I do, by the way, I just happen to not be behind a mask. Wait, there’s a person in there. I didn’t know that. But we’re all doing the same thing, you know, and we’re all working hard, and none of it’s easy. But that’s not a complaint, it’s just you know. Look, I embrace hard work. I love the hard work.

Tim: 1:10:59

So where can people find you, buy the books and follow you?

Joel: 1:11:03

Well, you know, the simple, easy answer to everything is always go to Amazon. However, if you want a signed copy or if you want to reach me, the easiest way to find me and all the social media channels or a signed book is joelgoldbergmediacom, my website.

Tim: 1:11:20

And I’ll put that in the show notes for everybody. But, joel, I cannot thank you enough for spending this time with us today and speaking with the Confidence community. A ton of great information, and I could talk to you for hours about all kinds of different things. You’re spot on and I truly appreciate your time and expertise it’s.

Joel: 1:11:42

it’s been great getting to know you on and off camera, tim, and I appreciate the opportunity.

Tim: 1:11:47

But you take care and we’ll talk to you soon. Thanks, tim. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom to get your free ebook Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and how to Overcome them. You can also register for the forum for public speaking. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time. Take care.