The Leadership Habit That Builds Powerful Communicators with Ron Reich

Tim: 0:08

Welcome to Speaking with Conference, the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. I want to thank each and every one of you for your support. It truly means the world to me. If you have questions or if you want something covered on the podcast, just send me a message. Please visit timnewmanspeakscom to get your free ebook the Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and how to Overcome them.

Tim: 0:39

Today’s guest is Ron Reich. Ron has 30 years of training and development in consulting experience. Is Ron Reich? Ron has 30 years of training and development in consulting experience. His background is broad-based, having worked for some major organizations such as Toshiba, the Chubb Corporation and several pharmaceutical companies. He’s done consulting work in many industries, including medical assisted living facilities, manufacturing high-tech retail pharmaceuticals and banking. The majority of his work through these years has focused on leadership and management development, along with corporate training and organizational development and coaching at all levels. Ron’s philosophy about leadership is quite simple it’s about the leader’s colleagues and how the leader can help get them where the team needs to go, by building long-lasting and sustainable relationships. Ron believes no one graduates from leadership school. Everything needs to be a work in progress, always learning and growing. Ron, welcome to the show.

Ron: 1:36

Tim, thank you. It’s good to be here. I’m really, really excited to have the chance to talk with you.

Tim: 1:41

Yeah, I think we’re going to have a great conversation. You know, in our pre-show talk, you know we’re on the same page and you know one of the things you know, there’s really two things that stuck out about you for me. One is about the relationships, but two, what I want to start talking about first is really the amount of reading that you do. You do a ton of reading, which, to me, I love, but young professionals today, at least in my experience, really don’t like to read, don’t read nearly as much as we do. And how important do you think reading is, not just in terms of our own personal development, but in terms of improving our communication skills?

Ron: 2:27

Tim, I’m going to go all the way back and I’ll share with you. We may have done this in our pre-call, I don’t remember. Frankly, the best piece of business advice I ever got was from an old boss of mine, a pharmaceutical company. We were talking about my review, my increase and everything was good. And I said to him I was like Joe, I admire David so much, one of my colleagues. I said he’s so well-rounded in just everything else. And Joe just said to me, ron. He said you are really good at what you do. He said you can get a lot better. And what I want you to start doing is to read. And that’s one of the reasons David is so good. If you can read 10 pages a day, five, six days a week, you have no clue what’s going to happen.

Ron: 3:20

And in the 23, 24 years whatever Tim from then, I’ve read over 400 leadership books. Tying it into how it makes a difference. Number one my confidence has gone up enormously because I just have so much more knowledge at my fingertips. Equally as important, I can be a resource to people on so many different levels. Number one making book recommendations. Number two just pulling information from books, sharing models, sharing information, whatever it might be, and I mean it’s just so true. I mean, I mean it’s just so true. I mean, minutes before we got on the show, I was reading my latest book. It’s called Beyond the Hammer and it’s about vision, the importance of vision and mission within an organization and communicating with your employees. And again, none of the information in here is brand new to me, and that’s fine, that’s good, it shouldn’t be, except it’s reinforcing. It’s reinforcing. It was the greatest piece of advice I ever got.

Tim: 4:36

Ron, I completely, 100% agree with what you’re saying. For all those reasons and trying to get that across to you know, the younger generations is is really difficult. And you know, I read something. There was a post on LinkedIn a few weeks ago and it was a bunch of people complaining about kids not reading and this, that and the other thing, and and it. It instantly aggravated me because, yes, I felt the same way, but we’ve got to, as the older generation, have to convince students or or give them, um, the younger professionals, give them reasons to read, as opposed to just complaining about it, and and and help them understand the importance of it and what that can do. Again, not only for your personal development, but your communication development, your personal relationships, your business relationships. All those types of things are needed and a lot of it comes from reading.

Tim: 5:35

You know when we look at our attention spans and how they have changed over the years. Over the years not to go into a history lesson, but if you go back to, you know the 20s, the 1920s, because we’re in the 2020s, but go back to the 1920s and you know when radio came online and magazines came online and newspapers became way more popular than they were before that. And then TV came online. And then you know, I believe it was the 80s when USA Today was first published and, ron, you probably remember this, it was the first daily newspaper that was in color. Yes, it was. The articles were shorter, smaller, much more bite-sized piece of information. And now move forward to how we’re communicating now.

Tim: 6:31

Most, most younger professionals, get all of their information from social media. Think about that. They’re they’re they’re getting their news from TikTok. They’re getting that. That, that kind of, is what it is, and they’re not actually reading information. I mean, they are reading information but they’re not reading the right types of information. Okay, and we’ve got to reach out to them and get them to start doing that no doubt, and I mean I think so.

Ron: 7:08

So much of this comes from the instant gratification yeah, I don’t have time. I don’t have time. And I mean it’s amazing to me when I, when I make a recommendation to someone, is that it’s exactly what Joe said to me. It’s still applicable. It’s just can you read 10 pages a day? Can you find the time somehow, some way right to take 15, 20 minutes and just read 10 pages a day? Right? And you know, sometimes you know not always obviously you can see the white bulb coming on where it’s like yeah, I could do that. I, I can do that. That, that’s, that’s no huge deal. It it’s like yeah, I’m not asking you, you know, re read a book a week and then and then write a report on it. You know nothing like that.

Tim: 7:52

Right.

Ron: 7:52

And you know, I mean one of one of the other big things for me too is that at least it’s been my direct experience and I believe so strongly people who are well read it just gives you so much more credibility. Yeah, and I mean it’s, it’s so nice to be able to say to a client, to you know, to a class that I’m facilitating oh, I pulled this out of a book that I read. You know, this comes from X book, you know whatever it might be. And people realize, okay, he’s just not throwing us his opinion Exactly, and that’s critical to me, which goes back to relationships and solid communication, because it’s not my opinion, it’s based on research, right?

Tim: 8:40

And you know, talk about relationships here for just a second. You know, with the age of technology and AI and I get it it’s important we have to learn that stuff, and because we don’t learn it, we’re going to be the ones left behind. And understand, though, that I don’t care what industry you’re in, it’s always about relationships, it’s always about the connections, it’s always about, you know, building good, healthy, strong relationships. That’s the bottom line.

Ron: 9:11

That’s right. That’s exactly right. I mean one of the things I love to do and it’s fun, and again you see light bulbs going on, whether I’m coaching somebody individually or in a class. One of the first things I always do your role as a leader, you know put flip charts up if it’s a class, or just ask somebody what are the major things for which you are responsible from a macro perspective? They’ll write things down and say what’s interesting and we always come up with there’s next to no technical information on the list.

Tim: 9:50

It’s about people.

Ron: 9:51

It’s about people.

Tim: 9:54

Exactly, exactly.

Ron: 9:56

Oh yeah, those things.

Tim: 10:00

How about that? And so I mean, if we can get one person a day to understand that and realize that and carry that on, you know we’ll be there in no time at all. That’s right, you know. You have to understand that. But here’s another piece to that, though If we understand this about people and it’s about relationships, we have to know who we are as individuals, right, and that brings us into the whole emotional intelligence. You know that’s become a buzzword the last five to ten years, but you know, when I grew up, it was you better figure out who you are as an individual. You know who are you, what are your values, what do you like, what are you good at?

Ron: 10:42

That’s right. And, tim, those are the exact things, truly, that I asked my clients to do. Again, whether I’m coaching them, whether I’m facilitating a class, you better know these things and, equally as important, in addition to knowing them, you need to be able to articulate them, because people are looking for that and, again, as I understand it and based on the reading I’ve done, the younger generations are looking for that from us. Hey, hey, hey, who are you? What are you? What do you believe in? And don’t throw me a bunch of fluff, and if I can’t articulate that clearly, it’s a problem, as it should be, because I need to know myself very, very deeply. Yeah.

Tim: 11:30

So how can reading help them figure?

Ron: 11:32

that out. Well, I mean, there are so many different things. Number one I mean there are books that can help you to determine what your values are, there are exercises, there are assessments you can use. I’ve put together from reading that I’ve done, tim, I call it my 15 thought pondering questions, and it is all about helping an individual to get to know himself or herself on a real, deep level, personally, professionally. And I mean as an example here how we can use this.

Ron: 12:13

My wife’s cousin, jen, was the assistant trainer at a division two college school. She was offered I think she was offered the head training position. She was talking to my wife and saying oh man, I don’t know, this would be glorious. I mean, the money is just unbelievable, wayne, and I would like to buy a house, blah, blah, blah, fine. And yet she was struggling a little bit because of the time commitment. Lori said to her oh, Jen, don’t worry, ron will be glad to help you, of course. I was, of course, right and I made this longer than I meant to.

Ron: 12:56

I sent her the thought pondering questions and I said to her Jen, I will be glad to talk to you Before we do. You got to answer these Right. We got on a Zoom call and she was like, oh my, oh, oh, oh my. You just had me thinking about so many different things here and I was like, Jen, that’s what it’s about is getting to know yourself. What’s important to you, you know, I know you love the kids, you love your husband and your family. Your career is a part of that. How can you balance that? And that’s what these questions are designed to do to help an individual learn more about themselves and realize okay, it is really dangerous if I make this decision in the moment.

Tim: 13:42

Right, exactly, and, and, and you’re so right there’s you have to be able to take all those things in consideration and you know kind of along the same lines I’m, I’m, I’m working with a couple of individuals right now who they have to make some, some real decisions. And I say these shouldn’t be hard decisions, they should be real, easy decisions, because at this point in your life, you should already know for you not for me, but for you what’s right and what’s wrong. And you know, when we start making those types of decisions for me and I tell them for me what other people see as tough decisions, it’s not a tough decision for me. It’s just because I already know. I already know what I believe, I already know who I am. I already know these things and it’s easy to make tough decisions.

Ron: 14:44

That’s right. When these values and everything we’re talking about are so deeply ingrained, it’s just instinctual and it’s not a gut decision. It’s a decision based on values who I am, what I am. And yeah, that’s exactly it. And plus, if I’m hesitating, you know in a yes, no, should I, shouldn’t I? If I’m hesitating, it’s like gee, is this the right thing to do? The answer is probably no, probably no.

Tim: 15:16

Right, right, unless and I will put a caveat, unless we’ve missed something. Absolutely, that’s fair.

Ron: 15:22

Unless we’ve missed something, absolutely, that’s fair. Unless we’ve missed something, no doubt that’s fair and that happens.

Tim: 15:29

I mean, obviously it’s happened with me, it’s you know, and I think that’s a good point. I didn’t think about that, but my decision was still right and I’m glad that you brought that up, because that’s something that will now go into the blender for future decision-making.

Ron: 15:46

Well, let’s see. Let’s circle back, though, too, because if I have a major decision to make and you know, ideally, yeah, I mean I can make it. If I’m not sure one of the things I like to talk about with people too, and I still do it after all these years I need to turn to somebody that I trust relationships and get some input, get some advice, and it’s like, hey, what do you think about this? And again, that’s where the relationships need to be in place. Mm-hmm.

Tim: 16:18

And not just the yes person relationship, the real relationship, the real relationship.

Ron: 16:23

That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. You know, and again, I had this conversation.

Tim: 16:32

So I went up to see my grandkids last week week before, and I spend a lot of time on the phone when I’m driving and I was talking to my best friend and he’s got a business. I’m helping him sell it, but he’s not really ready to sell it yet and he was bouncing some things off me and he said everybody thinks that this is a good idea and what we were talking about. I said well, wait a second. Why is it that a good idea to have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? And he said you know what I haven’t? I’ve just been taking what they’ve been saying. I said, mike, you need to. You need to really think about that, because that’s going to change so much and if I’m just being a yes person to him, that could cost him a ton of money.

Ron: 17:15

That’s right, that’s exactly right, and I mean it’s yeah, it is, it’s just, and again it’s reminding me of a book I read quite a few years ago that ties into that as called let’s Get Real or let’s Not Play, and it’s all about helping people to. It’s essentially sales training, and again, sales training from a very, very strong consultative perspective. And again, the point being, though, absolutely, is that you’ve got to have these honest conversations with each other so that, otherwise, what is the relationship really worth? Otherwise, it’s surface.

Tim: 17:59

Exactly, exactly so. So when, when, when? We’re talking about emotional intelligence, I think it plays a big role in our communication style and communication skills. Um, what, what, what are your thoughts there? Because I, you know, you and I talk again in the pre-show about knowing who we are in terms of everybody’s smart, but we’re all smart in different ways. Yes, right, and we have to, we have to accept that and lean into it and, again, I agree 100% with that. But how does that relate to our communication skills?

Ron: 18:34

Well, I mean, for me, Tim I think it goes back to what we were just talking about I’m a bright guy. I mean I really am in certain areas Right, and you know I like to think. I like to think I really am in certain areas Right, and you know I, you know I, I like to think I end up, I like to think I know I can build relationships. Well, I’m a, you know I’m a, I’m a strong detail guy. You know those sorts of things.

Ron: 18:58

I communicate well. I communicate more effectively in smaller groups.

Tim: 19:04

Yes.

Ron: 19:04

And I know that about myself. That’s part of my personality, so are my limitations. I’m not real strong technically, I don’t write particularly well and I mean I know these things about myself and I mean, and again, really you know, but actually let’s pull it through on the other side from. You know, I’ve let my preferences to work with smaller groups 10, 12, five, you know, whatever it might be I have. I have spoken to groups where there were hundreds and hundreds of people in the audience. Can I do that Absolutely? Is it my preference? No, no, it’s not, because I like to form stronger relationships with the smaller groups of people. There’s nothing wrong, nothing with people who like the larger groups. It’s just their preference. And that’s what we need to learn about each other, both professionally and personally, so we can give people the proper assignments and let them flourish.

Tim: 20:09

Right, exactly, and part of that is what I’ve always said. It’s my job as a leader to put you in the best position possible for you to be successful, and for me to give you everything that you need to be successful. And that’s and, and and for me to give you everything that you need to be successful.

Ron: 20:30

Right, and and, and, provide the tools, provide the. You know just just everything. I will be there. I got your back. Go do your thing, yeah.

Tim: 20:39

And you know, without getting into into too much here, yeah, I live in a, in a, in a community that’s got a property owners association, and you know that has its struggles. Let’s just say, and my position is always you know, open, honest communication. We don’t have to agree on anything, but you need to have open, honest communication. We don’t have to agree on anything, but you need to have open, honest communication. And you’ve got however many people that live in this community. We all have our own expertise. You as the board. You don’t have to do everything yourself. It’s okay to reach out to somebody and say you know what, tim, you’ve got some marketing expertise or you’ve got some PR expertise. Can you help us? Certainly, that’s exactly, it’s okay. It’s okay. And use the tools and use the resources that you have at your disposal to fill in the gaps, because nobody’s going to be great at everything.

Ron: 21:44

I hope you and I hope the audience will relate to this. I’m not sure if it’s the best example in the world. I think it’ll work. My wife and I saw Elton John a number of years ago. We both love his music. He’s about 75% through the show, 80%, whatever Finishes a song, and he’s just quiet. The entire arena is just quiet. Clearly he’s going to tell a story.

Ron: 22:14

He looks at us, says you know, about 27, 28 years ago, I was in a lot of trouble. I was doing a lot of things I shouldn’t have been doing. He went on for a little while. He said I was drinking a lot, and I was, you know, I was just, I was doing a lot of things I shouldn’t have been doing. He went on for a little while. He said I was drinking a lot and I was, you know, I was just, I was doing a lot of bad things. He said folks, let me tell you something. Three words saved my life. Three words. And I’m sitting there thinking what are the three? What are the three words? And he just and you could hear a pin drop he said folks, those three words simply are. I need help.

Ron: 22:54

And everybody needs help at some point in time. Maybe not the kind he’s talking about, and that’s fine. I need help at certain times because I’m not good at everything. I never have been, never will be Right.

Tim: 23:04

Right, been, never will be Right, right and it’s. And again, it comes back to to knowing who you are and being okay, to being okay with leaning into that and asking for that help, because, as, as as society, we want to help people. That’s right, that’s exactly right. Nobody, nobody, at least nobody that I know or that I want to be associated with, is sitting over here going, ah, look at that guy over there struggling. I know I can help him, but I’m not going to. I don’t want to watch him struggle.

Tim: 23:33

I don’t know anybody like that, I really don’t and I wouldn’t want to, right, that’s exactly so. You know. It’s okay to ask and if I can’t help you, you know what I’m going to say, you know what. I can’t help you, but this person can or that person can, and if you want me to make an introduction or if you want me to make the contact, I’d be happy to do that. That’s how I can help. But again, we have to again know who we are and be okay with doing that, and that starts really at a young age. You know, if you wait until your mid-20s, mid-30s, it becomes much harder to do, becomes much harder to understand those types of concepts.

Ron: 24:22

That’s right, that’s exactly right. I mean yeah, yeah, I mean I, yeah, yeah, I mean there, there, there’s no doubt that just I mean that’s another whole show we could get into is is when you know, when you know, when did, when did kids, people need to be educated about these things? Yes, exactly I.

Tim: 24:41

I know, I know it’s just shake my head sometimes and do what we can do, but you know it is what it is sometimes.

Ron: 24:51

It is, and yet you know you made the comment early in the show, tim is that if one person learns something from this, it’s worthwhile, and I mean I just agree with that. Am I going to change the world? No, no, I’m not going to change the world. What I’m going to try to do, though, is help as many people as I can in my time here, and and change and change influence, make a difference within that sphere, and then, hopefully that grows, based on how they help others exactly, exactly it’s.

Tim: 25:29

It’s that pay it forward, philosophy, um and and again. I’ve said the same things. I can only help people with better around me, the inner circle and hopefully that that, that, that the, the ripple effect will, will take care of itself. So right. Have you ever struggled with with imposter syndrome in terms of presenting in front of a group? Oh goodness, yes. How did you overcome it?

Ron: 25:57

I think a big part for me, tim’s going, going back to knowing yourself well is just really really preparing, preparing, preparing and realizing. One of the mantras I have, and actually it ties into what we’re talking about here, something I believe in very, very strongly, is just staying out of what I call the results business. Staying out of what I call the results business, so much of my life, my professional life, my personal life is, is is just out of my hands.

Tim: 26:33

Right.

Ron: 26:33

It’s just I don’t control the results. Right right, right, right before we came on the air, I mean I was looking over my notes and just everything else and just thinking to myself okay, I’m ready, I’m prepared. Beyond that, I have no control over how well you think the talk goes, how well the you know what the audience thinks. All I can do is be ready and I learned that, and when I’m prepared and when I’m ready, the results will take care of themselves.

Tim: 27:05

Exactly, and that’s such a good point. And again, ron, you and I are on the same page there. I’m a researcher, I’m a preparer, I’m somebody that puts time and effort on the front end, because if you don’t put it on the front end, the back end is not going to be good. We know the back end isn’t going to be good. We know the back end isn’t going to be good. We already know that. So put the time and effort in. You know, do the research, do the practice, and we talk about practice. So you know, one of the first things I asked you when you came on was what? How do you say your last name? Right, and you told me.

Ron: 27:44

And I said good, that’s how I’ve been practicing Right, I caught that.

Tim: 27:50

And it’s, but. But you know, that’s just who I am Right. And so, and when I practice and you know when I when I tell people and coach them, you’d need to be practicing, not just sitting there with your face and your notes. You need to be practicing it like you would actually do it. So, like you know, basketball players don’t sit in a in a in a classroom with the lights off dribbling a basketball. They go out to the basketball court with the lights on, dressed in their uniform, and are practicing how they’re going to actually play the game. Right, that’s right. So if you’re going to get up in front of a team meeting or go to a job interview or go to a networking event or stand on a stage, why would it be appropriate for you to sit at your desk staring at your computer, reading your notes? That’s not practicing. That’s called reading your notes, right.

Ron: 28:43

That’s exactly right. Reading your notes, right? That’s exactly right. Well, and you know, one of the one of the helping me to overcome the imposter syndrome, if you will, when I worked at Toshiba all those years ago I was doing, I was going to be doing a three-day interviewing class. My boss was going to be in the room watching me. She had a 15 page form that she used to evaluate the trainers that worked for her when she would observe them. She said, and she says sets the expectations. At the end of each day we’re going to sit down and talk about how the day went and so forth. Fine. Day one everything went very well. I’m happy, ron, and it gave you some good feedback. Day two same thing.

Ron: 29:24

At the end of day three, tim, I’ll never forget, barbara came up to me, sat down and she was like Mr Reich, and that’s what she said, mr Reich. And I was like, okay, where are we going with this? She said this has never, ever happened in my entire career before. You were flawless. You were flawless for these three days. You got 179 points out of the possible 180. And I asked her, of course, what’d you take the point off for Exactly? And she said your pants weren’t ironed nicely enough. Today, and my whole point though, tim, I prepared so hard for that course, standing up, going through it, saying it out loud, just working, working, working, so that when the curtain went up I was ready Right.

Tim: 30:17

And again, you have to do that, just like anything else, if you want to be good at it. It takes work, it takes practice, it takes repetition and the only way to do that is to put yourself in that position. It just you know. I use some real simple concepts to break it down. Again, I come from the sport industry. If the all-time greats the Kobe Bryants, the Michael Jordans, the Tom Brady’s of the world are working on fundamentals every day, why can’t you and think about it on the other level, when you teach a child how to tie their shoe, how long does it take them practicing to do it and get it right? You see the learning happen. They get frustrated and you show them again and they get pieces of it. It comes from practice. It doesn’t just happen.

Ron: 31:23

A big part of this, too, though, is that, as the person is making progress, the praise needs to be there, so that the confidence starts to increase, and then the relationship strengthens and everybody’s winning. So I mean, it is just a big, big circle. Yeah, yeah, big circle.

Tim: 31:44

Yeah, yeah, and you have to to to do that. You’ve got again. Get comfortable being uncomfortable, because that’s learning, that’s the learning piece. Right, that’s, you know, it’s the, the. I call it frustration, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be frustration. It could be. You know what? I didn’t get it that time.

Ron: 32:08

What did I?

Tim: 32:08

miss. It could be any of those things. I I call it again. I call it frustration. It doesn’t have to be frustration, it’s for me, it’s damn it, I missed it again.

Ron: 32:18

What was?

Tim: 32:18

it, but that everybody has their own process of learning and and figuring that out. So get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Get comfortable with that frustration of I didn’t get it right. What do I need to do differently? What do I need to do better? And again, it doesn’t matter what it is If we want to be good at it. It takes work, it takes practice.

Ron: 32:43

That’s right and that’s okay. That’s right, it’s okay and it’s okay to ask for help.

Tim: 32:48

Yep, you know Absolutely.

Ron: 32:50

You know. Again, I’ll just reinforce that. It’s making me think. A friend, mentor of mine, Rich, brilliant, brilliant guy. He’s been all over the world, knows all of these different famous people, blah, blah, blah. He’s helping me to learn a two-day leadership class that he had designed and developed. He wanted me to deliver it myself. We had been doing it together, we were in Atlanta and I did probably maybe 80% of the class. We’re talking about it afterwards. He goes what do you think? And I was like Rich. I was really happy, except and I was angry with myself, I was like Rich that change module. I was sloppy with that and I’m just so mad at myself and I’ll never forget Tim Rich just looked at me and he smiled. He goes number one, I agree, you were a little sloppy. Number two don’t worry about it. I’ll show it to you one more time and then you’ll know it inside and out. Let’s go.

Tim: 33:51

Yeah, it’s that simple, right, it’s really that simple. I know, so you know, and you, you know you’re generally working with mid-career and senior career level individuals in leadership positions. What are some communication skills that stand out that the best leaders have?

Ron: 34:17

I think probably the ability to communicate with people how they like to be communicated with.

Tim: 34:26

Oh yeah.

Ron: 34:27

If that makes sense. I mean the rule I learned years and years ago. If you think about the golden rule treat people the way you want to be treated. It doesn’t make sense, right? It just doesn’t. It makes no sense, because if that’s the case and I love strawberry ice cream, what am I going to give you? Strawberry ice cream. What if you hate or are allergic to strawberry ice cream? What I learned was called the platinum rule.

Ron: 35:01

Yes, the platinum rule treat people the way they want to be treated. Well, how does that happen? You have to get to know them. You have to build a relationship with them.

Tim: 35:11

Exactly.

Ron: 35:21

Exactly. It’s an area where I think a lot of leaders can improve is just getting to know their colleagues on a deeper level, both professionally and personally.

Ron: 35:35

And I say, hey, who are you? You know, what do you love to do, Tim, and and and. Then it’s not a you know, it’s not a surface level of like okay, good box checked, now let’s move on. It is, let’s talk about how was your trip, what’s going on with that, what’s the leg in it, whatever, and building that strong relationship so that there is trust on a lot of different levels.

Tim: 35:57

Yes, yeah, and, and that again that’s such a critical piece, it’s because it’s not just that business professional relationship, because really, if you’re just focusing on that, it’s really only going to be surface, surface level business professional. That’s right. You’ve got to get to know people as as individuals, and I’m not saying you have to be best friends with them, I’m not even saying that you have to be friends with them, but you need to know who they are. You need to know who they are, you need to know what makes them tick.

Ron: 36:31

You need to know what’s important to them. Exactly. That’s exactly it, you know it’s just. It’s like oh they’re, you know they’re. Oh yeah, there’s Ron, the leadership development guy. No, there’s Ron, the guy who’s been married for 25 years, who loves to travel with his wife, who’s a New York Giants season ticket boulder, who has read 400 leadership books, who you know just and all these different things? And it’s not, and again, it’s not. I need to know every detail about you.

Tim: 36:58

No, of course not.

Ron: 36:59

That’s inappropriate. Still, the relationship needs to be in place Exactly.

Tim: 37:05

Exactly, exactly. What role does listening from a leadership perspective play? Because, to me, I love to listen and I love to ask questions. I think that’s one of the things that, from a leadership perspective, you’ve got to be good at is listening and asking questions to really get at the root or the basis of whatever it is that we’re doing.

Ron: 37:37

Right, right that we’re doing. Right, right, I am. I’m a big believer in Stephen Covey’s work. Uh, from the seven habits, and directly out of habit, five seek first to understand, then to be understood. Good listening for me. What, what, what?

Ron: 37:54

What a good leader anybody needs to do essentially is you translate what you’re hearing the person say, just translate it. You know, and I always, I always say to clients, I say to people we listen with three different things we listen with our eyes, we listen, of course, with our ears and we listen with our heart as well. And you know, listening through the eyes, body language, what’s the message I’m getting from a body language perspective? You know you may be saying one thing and your body language is getting a totally different signal, exactly that’s. You know, tone of voice, critical. And then you know we listen with our ears and then heart emotions. And then you know we listen with our ears and then heart emotions, because emotions are a part of any situation, any message that someone’s trying to get across, and you translate that it sounds like you’re upset about this.

Tim: 39:01

What I’m understanding is that you think we should hold off on launching this product, just as examples and why you want to hold off, and so that we can, and so that we can, we can either, you know, figure out what we need to do better, what, what, what, what the process is. Maybe there’s a flaw in the process, maybe there’s a flaw in in the materials, whatever, whatever it is, but understand that, so then that can be communicated to whoever needs to know that. You know, it’s just really so important, the listening piece and again, not just from the business side, from the personal, professional side.

Tim: 39:36

You know, all of a sudden, you’ve got a longtime employee who’s coming in half an hour late, three times a week. What’s going on? Let’s sit down and talk, Tell me what’s happening. What can we do to support you? This isn’t like you Exactly, you know, and so you know. A lot of that has to do with emotional intelligence, caring, empathy and coming back to knowing who your employees are and then being willing to actually listen to the feedback that we’re getting Exactly. So what’s one piece of?

Ron: 40:35

advice that you would give to the younger midlife professionals to improve their communication skills so that you know when they do become, you know, come into leadership positions. They’re going to it and I mean I think, and there really is, I think you know it’s really everything we’ve been talking about. In order to communicate effectively, there are so many different things. Number one you’ve got to know yourself. I’m also a big, big believer in the disc instrument, the personality assessment, learning about yourself.

Ron: 41:09

Once you know about yourself, then you’re going to be able to communicate more effectively with others Right and learning, indeed, how to give feedback, how to give nonjudgmental feedback, how to listen effectively, how to create a motivational environment by getting to know the people with whom you work. And I mean where I go with this and I’m not trying to be self-serving, please, I’m not. I think one of the best things anybody can do is to either is to attend leadership training and then get a coach in order to reinforce that, because the training itself wonderful, except so often where people fall down is I went to training, it’s all good now and it’s like, yeah, except six weeks from now, what are you going to be applying or how much will you be applying?

Tim: 41:58

Right, and are you going to fall back on your old habits?

Ron: 42:00

Exactly, exactly, because it’s got to be applying. Right, and are you going to fall back on your old habits? Exactly, exactly, because it’s got to be reinforced.

Tim: 42:05

Yeah, and you know, again, coming from the higher ed industry, I kept telling people, you know, most college professors have never had a job outside of education and so they don’t have a whole lot of experience with some of those things, with evaluations, with personnel evaluations. Actually, you know, having those types of things, there needs to be some mandatory training when you go from a professor position into administration. How do you develop budgets? How do you manage budgets? How do you manage people?

Ron: 42:48

How do you evaluate people. That’s right. It’s a completely different set of competencies. It is and I think that’s also a big problem that a lot of organizations have is that oh wow, you’re a great sales rep, you’re going to be a great sales manager there. For him, it’s like wait a minute, wait a minute stop different competencies, different job, and yeah again, it’s, it’s yeah.

Tim: 43:17

It’s very, very different, you know, and, again, that’s why some of the all time greats in sport aren’t great coaches.

Ron: 43:24

Exactly, exactly. And some of the greatest coaches were not the best players in the world, and that’s okay too.

Tim: 43:34

Exactly what’s your skill set? Where’s your strengths?

Ron: 43:38

Think about Phil Jackson. Yeah, never a great player he wasn’t. He was, all right, one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Tim: 43:46

So I don’t know it’s. It’s. It’s about expectations and, and you know, what what, knowing what we’re good at? But you know so. So, phil, excuse me, phil phil jackson. All of a sudden you know he was ph. So, phil, excuse me, phil, phil Jackson. All of a sudden you know he was Phil Jackson, was, was a voracious reader too, I mean, I don’t know if you know that. And I mean, and what he would do is is he would give these, give his players different books to read.

Ron: 44:13

Yeah.

Tim: 44:13

And some of some of them would just kind of laugh it. But those who did you know really did it at the end. They appreciate that. So I’m sorry for calling you Phil, but there is that relationship there. Ron, where can people find you?

Ron: 44:26

if they want to work with you. Probably the best way to do it, tim, is via LinkedIn. Just yeah, my name’s on the screen there, ron Reich. The name of my company is RLB Training and Development. Just, you know, have a look, please. I welcome the chance just to have a conversation with anybody, you know send you know, send me a message, whatever you like, I will gladly. Gladly chat with anybody.

Tim: 44:51

Right, ron. Thank you so much and I’ll put that. Put the link in the show notes for everybody. I really do appreciate your time. I love the conversation and can’t wait to work with you in the future.

Ron: 45:03

Thanks, tim, appreciate it. It’s great to talk to you.

Tim: 45:07

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