Unlocking Your Unfair Advantage with John Little

Tim: 0:08

Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I’m Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I’m thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. I want to thank each and every one of you for your support. It truly means the world to me. If you have questions or if you want something covered in the podcast, just send me an email. Please visit timmanwithspeakscom to get your free ebook the Top 200 Challenges for Public Speakers and how to Overcome them. Our guest today is John Little. He’s a nationally recognized executive performance coach, speaker and leadership expert with over 25 years experience helping leaders break through self-doubt and step into their full potential. He has coached hundreds of professionals into executive roles by tackling imposter syndrome head-on and building a personal leadership brand that commands influence. His approach is bold, insightful and transformational, so get ready to take notes, reflect and walk away empowered. John, welcome to the show, bud.

John: 1:12

Thanks, tim, appreciate it. Happy to be here.

Tim: 1:15

We have some things in common from our professional background in the sport industry, and it’s not the glamorous, jet-setting life most people think it is.

John: 1:24

Absolutely not. It’s the it’s, it’s the grimy under under parts of it. That, uh, that that you know that we’ve had that experience in.

Tim: 1:32

Yeah, it’s. You know, at least for me it was, it was fun while it lasted, and there’s things I miss, but there’s a reason why I’m not doing it anymore and and uh, uh, I like it much better on on this side of the of the aisle than than than you know the the grind that it is.

John: 1:52

Absolutely. Yeah, you know it’s funny. I tell people all the time when I share my background of, you know, working for 10 years in sports television, and people say, oh, that must’ve been amazing and like, well, yeah, I mean it was. Uh, you know, it was like every night going to to to work at a sports bar with no alcohol, but we had all the games and had you know, had all the camaraderie that you would expect and all the rivalries and all the trash talking and all the fun.

John: 2:16

But that’s just. You know, waiting for the blue jays and angels to finish a 13 inning game on the west coast when you’re in Atlanta in the middle of July. And you and you know that that’s just. That’s just Wednesday. Like it’s going to happen again At a certain point. You realize I don’t know if I want that the rest of my life.

Tim: 2:37

Exactly. That’s it’s again that’s, that’s a piece that nobody sees and and you know it is what it is and it’s for. You know, I really think that those types of things are for the younger generations and as you get older and and have families and kids and other responsibilities, it, you know, those types of things at least from my perspective take away from the things that I think are important, like, like, like family and relationships and those types of things. But God bless them. We’ve got to have it. It’s the driver.

John: 3:11

Absolutely.

Tim: 3:11

It is what it is. That’s right. It’s right, yeah, but one of the things that we talked about in the pre-show meeting is about how the younger generation of people grew up completely different than we did, you know, from being outside and playing with friends unsupervised, to how we communicate with each other. We had landlines. Most people don’t even know what that is Like. I told you I had the rotary dial phones before we even had the. I just call it electronic, the non-tethered kind.

Tim: 3:50

Yeah, the push button types of things, and you were lucky if you had call waiting right.

John: 3:56

Right.

Tim: 3:58

And now we have these smartphones that they go off constantly, you can patch 17 people in to one phone call, all these other things and I think that really kind of changed how, um, how, how generations have not only grown up, but but how they’ve been raised and how they deal with issues such as adversity and resilience. What are your thoughts on that?

John: 4:23

no, I completely agree, and you know it’s. Whenever I talk about this, I’m always mindful to not be the old man shouting at the clouds and you know the back in my day, you know, but it it definitely is different today than it was when, when we were growing up, you know, I, I was caller id. Uh, you know I would answer the phone and I would announce who, who it was, that was on the and if my parents wanted to speak to them, they did, and if not, then I was a call screener.

Tim: 4:47

Yeah, they weren’t home, Right Dad are you home?

John: 4:51

No, Okay.

John: 4:53

But you know, those things that we experienced growing up and kind of the way that we experienced them growing up, they certainly did lay a different groundwork and foundation than people have today. Again, it’s not right or not wrong, it’s just different, right, and you know the things that we learned of, you know, talking to people talking to. There there was, you know, there was the don’t talk to strangers, but there wasn’t the stranger danger that exists today, right there, you know, I remember walking to school my entire, entire, and I grew up in a smaller, you know, smaller, town. I didn’t grow up in a big city, but I remember walking to school every day, not thinking anything of it. My parents thought nothing of it.

John: 5:31

You know, there there was a lot more freedom and experiences that I was having as a kid. That Seth, that definitely set that foundation for kind of not an adventurous spirit so much set that foundation for kind of not an adventurous spirit so much, but just kind of a lack of fear and intimidation from the world. That has kind of served me throughout my life of not being afraid to do things differently, not being afraid to take chances here and there, not being afraid to look at experiences and if it doesn’t work out, like OK, what’s next? Right? You talked about the adversity and the resilience. You know a lot of those lessons were learned early on in life, kind of growing through experiences that I had.

Tim: 6:11

Yeah, and again, we kind of grew up right around the same time and you know, talk about walking to school. I actually had this conversation last week with somebody taking the school bus. So, where I lived, if you lived within a mile of the school, you had to walk. It wasn’t and it didn’t matter if it was raining, didn’t matter if it was snowing, it if, if you lived within a mile you were, you were walking it, and that’s right. So so we had snow days, but we don’t have snow days like today, like if it’s, if there’s a threat of snow, you know everything shuts down, but you know you were going to school and that’s just what it is.

Tim: 6:48

And I think that’s really kind of all those types of things that have affected how we manage stress, how we, um, you know, look at things from from the bigger picture. You know, like you said, in terms of in terms of adventure and trying new things, and I kind of think that that also kind of leads into why we have now there’s been the whole idea of imposter syndrome for forever. But I think part of that is where we are today is because of some of those changes in how we’re raising our kids.

John: 7:21

I could completely agree with you. You know, one of the big things with imposter syndrome that people experience and it doesn’t matter if it’s someone who’s new in their career, it doesn’t matter if someone who’s just getting started, doesn’t matter if it’s someone who’s telling you you don’t deserve to be here, you shouldn’t be here, um, and the reality is, if you’re in those rooms, if you’re in those spaces, you’re there for a reason. You’re there because you’ve either earned that space or you’ve been invited in Um. And so the mindset of like kind of knowing that you can go places that you haven’t been before, the understanding that you can be a little bit of a pioneer, you can be someone who does things that that you haven’t seen or experienced before, those things help to overcome imposter syndrome.

John: 8:18

Uh, and it is, it’s kind of a disconnecting thought process that you have to have. You know, whenever I experienced this and I know we have, you know, whenever I experience this and I know we’ll unpack this further whenever I experience imposter syndrome and I do, you know, I just like anybody else, there’s times where I have those questions, those doubts. I always remind myself like I’m here for a reason and I can kind of go through my, my, my brag book of accomplishments, if you will, of okay, here is how I earned space to be here. Here’s how I earned this opportunity to be in this space.

Tim: 8:48

Yeah, and and and I think you really kind of nailed it the whole, the whole idea of, of getting rid of that negative self-talk or or whatever you want to call it imposter syndrome, I mean there’s, we have all kinds of names for it is, you know, building and developing that confidence.

Tim: 9:03

And it’s funny I saw a video this morning. One of the first things I do and maybe this is again me growing up is when I wake up I read news, you know quick headlines if I want to read something more in depth, whatever and then I go and I look at LinkedIn and just kind of get an idea of what’s going on for the day. And there was a reel that actually talked about confidence and how a lot of times what we do and he got nailed it A lot of times what we do is we think that confidence is the after effect. But what he said was confidence is the building, confidence is the process. It’s the by doing some, by doing the things, we build confidence which allows us to, you know, try something even further down the line and further down the line, further down the line. So understand that the confidence isn’t the, isn’t the end, it’s part of the process there’s, there’s kind of three pockets that people will will look at.

John: 10:09

They’ll look at confidence, um, they’ll look at a lack of confidence, or they’ll look at ego, right, yeah, yeah, and a lack of confidence. What’s what’s really funny is that lack of confidence and ego are kind of the same things. They just show up differently, very different, um, but like true confidence. When someone has true confidence, oh my god, that’s just so inspiring. Like you can just see how cool that is for them. You can see how they just kind of own the space that they’re in. They’re unapologetic about who they are. They can really lean into their authenticity, like they have to fill the space with whatever it is that they feel like they have to say in the moment. People with great confidence are often the ones who are also great leaders, because people are just drawn to them, um, and so that, again, from from an imposter syndrome standpoint, it’s like what are the things that help me feel confident? What are the things that build my confidence? Uh, what are the things that that helped me be and be authentic and then share that with the world? And I was doing a presentation for a group last week yeah, last last Thursday, I did it for them, and I shared a video from Mike Krzyzewski.

John: 11:17

Mike Krzyzewski, coach K, you know, retired from Duke. You know, us men’s basketball coach for a number of years, and he was talking about the routine team in 2008. Um, and one of the things that he said before one of the meetings with the players was I don’t believe in check your ego at the door. Like, bring your ego into the room, bring it with you. Um, and there was like a little bit of pushback from the company because they were like really mindful of that word ego. So I helped them reframe it. I was like, in that context, that ego is their superpower. Right, we’re talking about Kobe, we’re talking about LeBron James, we’re talking about Dwayne Wade, we’re talking about Jason kid, we’re talking about some of the best to ever do it Like they need to bring that superpower with them. But that ego is not I’m better than you. That ego is I have full confidence that I can do everything.

John: 12:06

So, it’s just kind of sometimes the words get a little bit mixed up, but I love that you brought confidence into the conversation.

Tim: 12:14

Yeah, and you’re absolutely right, A lot of times ego has a negative connotation and with the way that it’s presented and the way that we act on ego, it does have that negative connotation. But, like you said, if we just do a little shift in that mindset which is a lot of what we do anyway we’re just really trying to help people shift their mindset, understand that ego can be a very good and powerful thing to help us get through whatever it is that our challenges are yeah, it’s funny, easy, I.

John: 12:47

I look at that confidence again, um, also through the lens of humility and, like people will. Sometimes it’s funny when people say, oh, I’m the most humble person that you’ll met, or that you’ll meet, right anytime someone brags on their humility. I got questions about that, right, um, humility is something that that shines Like people see that in you.

John: 13:14

I am someone and I’m going to sound ridiculous by saying this but I consider myself to be humble because I don’t like put, you know, a whole bunch of myself out there in a way that’s like in a braggadocious way. But I do feel like, for the things that I do for you know, as a leadership coach, um, for someone who talks about leadership all the time, I feel like that’s what I do. For, you know, as a leadership coach, um, for someone who talks about leadership all the time, I feel like that’s what I do really really well. But I don’t have to tell you that. I would much rather show you that. But I feel confident that if you give me the opportunity, then you’re going to walk away wild but I’m not going to tell you, I’m going to wow you, I’m going to give you everything.

John: 13:45

I you know. That’s that. Because then you set yourself up for uh, uh for either, not for failure, but you set yourself up to look foolish. Sometimes you oversell through your ego yeah, yeah.

Tim: 13:58

And you know, there are a few things that if people say that they are like I’m humble, I’ve got, I’ve got integrity, I’ve got integrity, I’ve got honesty. Okay, because again, if I’ve got to tell you those things, then those are things that just shine through and come through with people and it just kind of makes me laugh because for me those are red flags. As soon as somebody says that I’m already, I’m taking a step back, I’m thinking, okay, I’m having a different conversation in my head and that sort of thing.

John: 14:32

Absolutely.

Tim: 14:34

Those are just traits that should shine through. But what do you think the role of technology plays today in terms of imposter syndrome? Because, again, remember, like I said, imposter syndrome has been around for forever. It’s not something new. Yeah, what role do you think?

John: 14:53

technology plays in that for our younger generations. So many layers, so many layers. Um, you know, we, we can, we can talk about what we see on social media, um, and and and what’s real and what’s uh, what’s not. When we see things on, you know, just scrolling on Instagram, um, you know, you see so many things that if you measure yourself against your screen, you’re always going to fall short because you’re measuring yourself against someone’s intentional portrayal of what their experiences may or may not be and I know that sounds like word salad, but it really is. Like, you know, when you put something out there on social media, that’s what you want the world to perceive is your truth.

John: 15:36

Um, and, if you’re scrolling and if you’re watching that, if you’re measuring yourself against that, of course there’s going to be the doubts and the concerns of, like you know, I’m not there or I don’t have this the same experience this person has, like I haven’t been to the places that they’ve been, I haven’t done the things that they that they’ve done, I haven’t seen the things that they’ve seen. Um, the reality is so much of that is just. You know, I’m going to use an old school word for gazey- it’s all fake, you know it’s almost, it’s all fake, but a lot of it is just show.

John: 16:11

And if people are measuring themselves against that um, without having the reality checks to balance it out, then that can certainly feed into the imposter syndrome of I should have more, I should do more, I should be somewhere that I’m not Um, and then they get some of those, those self-doubts, some of those concerns pop in, um, you know. So that’s one way that technology certain certainly has, uh, has, has contributed to imposter syndrome. I think, even though I, I, I’ve, I really value AI and I see where it’s super beneficial and I use it in my business a lot, I also recognize how AI can help it could, it could create some of those places of insecurities within people. If you see what somebody is producing or you see what somebody is sharing, or even if you’re kind of you know, if you’re measuring yourself against the, the machine of, you know, wow, I didn’t know that.

John: 17:03

I, you know, I didn’t know all this information out of all these these different you know components of something that I’m trying to learn that could be intimidating, right, it’s so. It’s so important, I think, for people to to kind of be present in the moment, you know, kind of recognize and accept where you are as where you are today. But where you are today is just the next step towards tomorrow. Tomorrow, right, you know everything. Everything can be kind of a launching point Rather than kind of getting bogged down in where you may be or where you think you should be, you know.

John: 17:40

Start today and leap forward.

Tim: 17:43

Yeah, and there’s again with technology, there’s so much information out there and so many different directions that people can go. Just because you know somebody on on TikTok or Instagram is doing it this way doesn’t mean that they know everything about everything. Right, you know, and maybe you want to put a different slant on things, or maybe you have, you want to go in a different direction. You know our life experiences lead us to where we are today and that’s what’s going to help us go where we are tomorrow, and we all have different life experiences.

Tim: 18:18

It doesn’t really matter and I think that’s the other thing that really kind of gets lost in this, just because how many leadership coaches are out there? There’s a ton. How many communication coaches out there? There’s a ton. How many basketball coaches are there.

John: 18:40

They all have.

Tim: 18:41

A lot of them are really, really successful. They all have their own way. They all have their own way of communicating, they all have their own systems, and it’s whatever resonates with those, with the people, that that that they’re leading and and so we don’t all have to be the same. We don’t all have to have the same level of knowledge. We don’t all have to have the same level of whatever it is you be, you, get better at being you, and you’re going to be just fine.

John: 19:06

You know, tim, I love you said that because it reminds me of one of the things that I learned a few years ago. That was just a game changer for me Because, yeah, I mean, you can’t throw a stone on LinkedIn without hitting a coach, right, whether they’re a leadership coach, executive coach, communications coach, career coach, a LinkedIn coach. I mean, good Lord, you simply you can’t do it. But what I learned a few years ago is the power of understanding your unfair advantage, and everybody has an unfair advantage, and that unfair advantage is you are the only you, like your experiences, your perspectives, your knowledge, your thoughts, like all of those things are uniquely yours, right? So by not being afraid to be an individual in a in a crowded space, by not being afraid to speak and share the things that make you, you know, unique that those things are your unfair advantage, Right?

John: 20:06

And our pre-show meeting, you know, we we talked about a little bit about our backgrounds and I shared with you that I had, you know, what I call a career jungle gym, because where I am today. If you told 21 year old me, as I was graduating from college, that this is where I would be at the right young age of 54, I’d be like. That makes no sense ever. I have no. I have no interest in being a corporate America. I have no interest in, you know, working with HR folks Like if you had told 21 year old me that I would have said you’re crazy. All of the experiences that I’ve had throughout my career in my life make me the exact perfect person to be where I am today in those spaces talking to those people, sharing my experiences and perspectives.

Tim: 20:53

Yeah, and and hopefully young people can understand that they’re in a. They’re in a much better place from that perspective. You know cause when we we were growing up.

Tim: 21:05

You better not be an individual, you better just fall in line. Everybody’s going to do it this way. Everybody’s going to do it this way. Everybody’s going to do it this way, yep. And now we’re in a time period which is, I I think, a whole lot better for us as as a society to let and allow people and embrace people, and encourage people to be individuals and to find ways to do things themselves, and it’s okay to embrace it and and really kind of lean into it yeah, it’s funny because, like in when we were growing up again back you know, in the the same time frame that that many of your, your listeners, are in from the age standpoint, individuality was really frowned upon was right.

John: 21:46

It was like if you were an individual, you were an outcast. Frowned upon was right, it was like if you were an individual, you were an outcast. It’s not like it is today, where when you’re an individual, you have things that can be celebrated. And the other thing that happened when, when there were individuals that were outcasts, was there was no community for them, there was no place for them to go. Today there’s so many communities that you could find.

John: 22:06

So, whatever your interests are, whatever it is that lights you up, whatever it is that you want to pursue, there’s a community for that and you can find it and you can connect with it. Because, like I had my first cell phone, I think at maybe 25 or 26, right or 26 right, um, my first, even though I, because of where I grew up in upstate new york, you know we would take family trips to montreal and to the uh, to niagara falls, so, like I had been out of the country before but I, like I had no exposure to the actual world I had never spoken to anybody in a different country, um, until I was into my 30s, yeahies, because the world was different.

John: 22:48

The world is is. Is is accessible now, which is so amazing for people who are trying to find how to fit, how to connect with, with things that are important to them. And those things help to build confidence too, because when you feel like you’re all alone on the Island, it’s hard to get confidence.

Tim: 23:05

But when?

John: 23:05

you have that community when you have people that affirm you. You have people that say you know, yeah, I agree. I see the same things. I’ve experienced the world in a similar way. Good Lord, that just brings the walls down so much it allows people to be confident it really does.

Tim: 23:21

And you know, it’s such a simple concept for us because, again, we’ve lived it, We’ve done those things and we’ve been over here and now we see how much things are different and it’s easy for us to understand. But but trying to get the younger generation to take that next step, um, it’s to me that’s what I find really difficult. And you know, I, I tell people a lot that today’s younger generations, I think, are so much smarter than we were at that age.

Tim: 23:51

They’re so much more entrepreneurial than we were at that age, but their communication skills are so much worse than ours were, and that’s the thing that’s really holding them back.

John: 24:05

I agree, the access to information is so much greater now than it’s ever been. Um, as I was just saying, the access to the world is so much better now than it’s ever been. The downside of communication and the communication devices that we have and the ways to communicate, is there are so many ways to communicate that don’t require you to actually speak and talk to people, right, um, you know, you can have an entire relationship with somebody over text. Um, you know, I have my best friends who would be on friends for 30 plus years. We have a group chat. We talk multiple times in the group chat a day.

John: 24:45

I just spoke to one of my best friends in the world on the phone the other day for the first time in probably a year and a half. Um, because we’re just we’re. We’re in constant, we’re in constant conversation or communication, but we just haven’t had conversations. Right, that’s the, that’s the gap that exists, is, is, and that that’s where those muscles get built and you learn how to communicate. Is when you’re actually talking to people, um, or when you’re actually, you know, speaking publicly or on a podcast or whatever. That’s where you really build those muscles up.

Tim: 25:22

Yeah, and, and I just I’m going to just take that one step further you know we talked about how I’m a recovering college professor and last semester was my last semester, and so what I realized about so about a month or so ago, what I missed was the personal interaction. I miss being around people. You know, I miss the, you know, the day-to-day of seeing people shaking their hand, having that face-to-face conversation. You know, these types of things in the podcast is great and I love it. You know, I haven’t been this professionally fulfilled in a long time, but I miss that interpersonal interaction and it’s just like you said, it’s that muscle that if you don’t use it, you lose or you become static in those skills where everybody else is getting better at it, and it is something that you know, again, from the young professional’s perspective. What they have to understand is the only way to get better at these types of things is to go out and start doing them.

John: 26:23

Absolutely Humans by design are social animals. So there’s something within us. Whether we’re extroverted, whether we have introversion preferences, it doesn’t matter.

Tim: 26:34

We still have that social engine within us that needs to be space and I would say all of leadership really revolves around communication and I did a presentation a couple weeks ago where I threw out a stat that you know 92% of talent and HR professionals value soft skills just as much or more than hard skills and we’re not really teaching soft skills anywhere in our education system as they’re growing up People from you know. Because we need leaders from all walks of life, in every business, every industry, every little aspect of life. We need people who are leaders. How do we get people with very little to no good communication skills to be able to grow that, to actually turn into an effective leader?

John: 27:49

It’s flipping it on its head a little bit. It’s recognizing that the soft skills are now hard skills. Oh, I can learn, wow. Okay, I can learn many hard skills now, either through YouTube or through e-learning, digital learning I can learn the hard skills and I can rep the hard skills. Learning digitally I can learn the hard skills and I can rep with the hard skills. The soft skills are the harder ones to teach now because we don’t have the environments that support those.

John: 28:17

As we once did, prior to COVID, most people went to the office five days a week, 40 hours a week. That community that you have at work, like that, was a way that people were able to exercise those muscles. Um, now that we’re in a work from home hybrid, some back to work, um, situations like it’s, it’s different, it’s challenging. So how do we? You know? To your question, how do we now build those things up? One it takes individual ownership. It takes that that want to of recognizing.

John: 28:48

If I want to grow in my career, if I want to be a leader, I do have to practice these skills. I do have to practice communication skills. Part of it, part of it, starts in this. This is things that I’ve worked with, with, with leaders, is don’t be afraid to raise your hand and ask so if there’s a project that you want to be on, if there’s a team that you want to learn more about, if there’s a meeting that you want to be in, uh, if you want to grow like people aren’t going to know that until you open up your mouth and you share it. So, like building up the confidence to ask, hey, you know, I want to learn more about this. Can I come to this meeting? Um, you know, I have questions.

John: 29:25

I was on this call. I have questions. You know, can I take you to lunch for 50? Can I take you to lunch? Can I get 15 minutes? Can we go walk and get a coffee? Um, you know, can we hop on a zoom? Any way that you can create opportunities to have the one-on-one conversations right, that’s a way to build that muscle, um, and by doing that, you’re going to stand out, because there aren’t people that are doing that now. There’s a lot of people who are waiting for opportunities to come to them. But the more proactive you are about creating those opportunities for those conversations, that’s where things, that’s where the muscle gets built. That’s also where trust gets built with people who you’re trying to you know, get you know, to get on the radar, raise your profile with whomever, and that’s where confidence grows, because the more that you start to see that that works, the more confident you are in doing it.

Tim: 30:17

Yeah, again, really, really good points, and I wish young people could understand the power of being curious, the power of asking questions, the power of going to somebody and say, can we have, can I get 15 minutes?

Tim: 30:32

Let’s go get coffee, like like coffee. You said that’s you know, because I want to learn more. That automatically elevates them from their peers. That in and of itself, you’re going to learn something, especially if you, if you’re coming from it, from a place of being curious, and you’re bringing value, you’re not. You’re going to learn something, especially if you’re coming from a place of being curious and you’re bringing value, you’re not asking surface-level questions, you’re asking thoughtful questions and you’re showing that you truly want to learn and get better. And then if you do a good follow-up piece after that, I mean how much that actually elevates you and separates you from from your peers. I wish we, I wish they, you know, I wish they would just listen to us and and and and do those types of things. It would, it would be so much better for them. But, um, those things are so powerful.

John: 31:25

Yeah, I mean, you know a personal, a personal thank you goes, you know it’s, it’s, it’s so simple, but it goes just so far. Uh, especially today when, when those those things just don’t quite get done as frequently. Um, I mean, I can’t tell you the last time I’ve gotten a handwritten note, but whenever I get one it’s like I appreciate it doesn’t really matter what the note says, I appreciate that someone took the time right, actually sit down and write something, right. Those are the things that make a difference. Um, also, not being afraid to to say that you don’t know what you don’t know. Um, when it comes to imposter syndrome, that’s one of the things that people will get hung up on is if I say I don’t know what this means, then what’s that going to say? What are people going to think? What message send? But the reality is, if you don’t know, then the best way to find out is to ask. Like I, one reason why I was terrible at sales was like fake until you make it just doesn’t work.

Tim: 32:18

for me it doesn’t work for me.

John: 32:19

Like I can’t, you know, I can’t fake it, that cause, that’s not authentic to who I am. Like, if I don’t know, I’m not going to try to act like that. I do. I’m going to find out. I’m going to ask questions, I’m going to try to learn, um, and people here’s the other thing that people don’t know. Most people want you to succeed. Yes, they do. Most people want you to succeed and they’ll help to support your success. So, asking questions to help to be successful, those are the things that people will want to hear from you. They don’t want you to to try to figure it out on your own all the time, or flop or flail, um, you know they’re. They’re not going to sabotage you. If you say, hey, can you explain what this means to me? Like, people want you to succeed because success makes everybody’s life easier and better.

Tim: 33:04

Yes, yes, that’s uh, I, you know, I think that is that’s something would probably be my one of my top things to get across to to people. Um, let’s put it this way, I don’t know anybody that would hire somebody in hopes that they fail. It doesn’t make any sense, right? Um, right, I don’t know of of any professional that is that that hopes other other people that hope other people fail. I just don’t. And if you do know those people, then those aren’t the people that you want to be around anyway exactly, and maybe that’s why I I don’t know any of those people, but you know it’s.

Tim: 33:48

It’s that that also, I think, comes back to that, that whole inner, inner dialogue, that that that we have sometimes, and just get get over that. People want to help, that’s, that’s just it. Nobody wants you to fail, it’s just it just doesn’t make any sense when you, when you think about it from from a logical perspective.

John: 34:10

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s counterintuitive for people to put you in a position that you’re not going to succeed in tactical, transactional pieces that they are actually leading. The better that you are at teaching and delegating, the better your job and the easier your job becomes, because then you, you, you aren’t working and interning at the same company at the same time. Right, and a lot of leaders will do that is, they’ll be so invested in the actual work, work, work of things that they’re not strategizing and they’re not being visionary is where and that’s where we need leaders to be Like. I don’t need a leader to handhold me through the work Once they’ve showed me how to do it. What I need a leader to do is put me in a position to succeed, support my success and help us move to the next level. Right, um, so it’s. It’s that was listened to a podcast yesterday John Maxwell podcast.

John: 35:20

That was one of the things that that that he was talking about is that, you know, leaders shouldn’t be delegating work and tasks. They should be delegating authority, which is don’t let me, like, sit here and do the work with you or tell you the step-by-step of what I want you to do. I want to tell you the outcome, I want to tell you the desired result, I want you to figure out your path, and when you get stuck, that’s where you I’m going to step in and help.

Tim: 35:47

You know that, again, really good points John Max was, I don’t say it, but I mean he’s. He’s phenomenal. I love what he says and what he does. How much do you do you think that what you just talked about comes from a lack of a lack of training? Because you know, as as I, as I look at it, when when people get promoted, they get number one, they they get promoted because they’re good at what they do right, they’re good at the task that they’re doing or tasks that they’re doing. They get promoted into management and don’t have management skills and they get caught into that trap that you just talked about. And then they get promoted because, again, there’s a difference between management and leadership. And then they get promoted into leadership and they’ve never really developed the management skills. So now, as a leader, they’re back to doing exactly what you just said.

John: 36:44

It happens far more frequently than the opposite. Yeah, most organizations don’t have a robust leadership development strategy, and when leadership development strategies look like is I’m going to work on the leaders being more transformational minded, being more strategic, being more visionary, being more focused on the people than the work itself. Because when you’re an individual contributor, maybe even when you’re a frontline manager, that’s your thing. It’s like you are doing the work and that’s where you shine and that’s where you will potentially get promoted. But then, when you get promoted, a lot of times there’s not that training that helps people take that next step right and shift. That’s why people get stuck in either middle management roles or.

John: 37:30

We hear so much, you know, feedback and noise in the world about bad leaders and organizations that struggle because they don’t have good leaders. Um, you know, leaders who aren’t accountable, leaders who who don’t listen, leaders that that they don’t trust. We hear so much of that and it’s it’s always weird. It’s like so they got to that position because they were terrible. No, no, they got to that position because they were really good at something right. That something isn’t what they’re needing to be doing right now, but they don’t. They haven’t gotten the the levels of support and development. Uh, to succeed in that role the way that they should.

Tim: 38:05

Right, you know I almost think that that that that training and development should happen before they’re promoted. Right, absolutely, as you know. So you know, when you’re in your frontline position, you know there’s a management leadership track If this is what you want to do. You know these are the classes, this is the training that we offer. You know we’ll send you to this school, whatever it is. You know, and I think you know, it’s so much more cost effective to do that than to have to hire somebody or have to clean up messes or or spend a bunch of time and energy later. You know, do it on the front end. That makes it’s providing benefit to the employee, which is when the back end is going to help the organization. It’s. It shows that the employee, that you care about them and their development, which is going to help the organization. It shows the employee that you care about them and their development, which is going to make them, you know, buy more into the process and into the organization. It’s a much better way of progressing.

Tim: 39:08

I think and you know it’s good for me to say that out here, where I’m not in those spaces, but you know to me it’s much more cost-effective and beneficial doing it that way than the current model. Let’s just put it that way.

John: 39:31

Yeah, $25,000 pool of money. Do you want to invest that $25,000 in the future of your organization by doing some leadership training, doing some management training, doing some coaching? Or do you want to spend that money on an outside recruiter and advertising for job you know job openings and things like that Because people keep leaving your organization? Right, right, it’s the same pool of money. It’s just you want to invest it or you want to spend it. Investment you’re going to get a return If you spend it you might not, right.

Tim: 40:10

I read a stat recently that it costs $5,000 to $7,000 to hire a new employee, right, and if you know, depending on the size of your company, at five, $7,000 is one for one person. It’s a lot of money. And if you’re a bigger organization, bigger corporation, and you’re doing that, if you’re hiring somebody every week, which we know some organizations are, that’s I mean how much money are you wasting? Are you losing there?

John: 40:40

That adds up.

Tim: 40:41

It really does.

John: 40:43

And at higher levels in the organization. You know if it’s leaders that you’re replacing. The higher up in the organization someone is, the higher the cost is.

John: 40:51

There’s another stat that it can take up to 1.3, over the span of a year 1.3 times the salary of somebody who leaves. To replace them, hire them, train that person and set them up to to to meet the level of where the person was when they left. So it’s not so that that 1.3, you know times investment isn’t that you’re getting someone who’s at that 1.3 level of advancement. You’re spending that much just to get back to where you were on the day that person left, and that’s just money. Think about time and everything else. So, yeah, it makes so much more sense to invest and for individuals, if you have the aspirations to grow, invest. Invest in yourself now, and it doesn’t have to be money, like listen to podcasts about leadership um you know follow.

John: 41:42

follow the right people on on um, on YouTube and LinkedIn. You’re not saying who those right people are, cause it’s different for everybody, but like find your thought leaders that resonate with you and then start to implement the things that you learn and whatever role that you’re in today.

Tim: 41:58

Exactly, and I just want to make this point too. You don’t have to go get an MBA either, because I mean, that’s that seems to be, you know, with a lot of young people. Well, I’m just going to go get an MBA, maybe you do, maybe you don’t. Again, I’m not saying one way or the other, but a lot of times that’s not the answer, because you don’t need to spend all that money on yourself. Maybe a corporation or organization will do it for you if you’re in the right position. Or maybe you don’t even need those skills right now, and that’s something that can be added later. There’s so many more opportunities out there for learning and development training than spending thousands upon thousands of dollars to get an MBA.

Tim: 42:44

And that’s coming from a college professor and I just I mean, I’m just open and honest about it A lot of times we spend money on college degrees which we have no need to begin a college degree.

John: 42:58

Right, yeah, I mean, I come from a family of educators. My mom taught elementary school for 35 years, my dad was an assistant principal and a principal for about the same amount of time, and both of them have graduate degrees. My sister had a graduate degree, I have a bachelor’s. I’ve never had anybody ask me about my credentials. They see the work that I do. They hear the things that I share. They see the value in those things. That’s what matters. That’s what matters. I’m like you. I’m like I’m not going to say one way or the other, right or wrong, do or don’t. Most of the time, people don’t care about alphabet soup. They don’t. They care about results. How can you help me?

Tim: 43:43

Exactly, Exactly. And one more thing you can’t really help them if you’re worried about you know, paying back thousands of dollars, student loans, because that’s where your mind is and you’re more worried about the. Again, I’m not saying that money isn’t important, but you’re worried about the money and not some other things that are important, but again I’ll leave that there.

Tim: 44:11

What are some in terms of leadership and communication? You know, because again we think that leaders there’s a perception out there that leaders have it all under control, but what are some of the internal barriers that they have in terms of communication?

John: 44:30

Yeah, the number one thing that I find with leaders as a barrier is they don’t understand how to build trust.

Tim: 44:36

Oh yeah.

John: 44:37

Trust is the foundational thing that leaders need to build Understanding how you build trust with people, how you learn to trust people, what’s important for you when you’re connecting with someone in order for you to start to trust them, and also understanding what they need from you in order for them to start trusting you. Also understanding what they need from you in order for them to start trusting you. If you don’t solve that trust equation, it makes everything much harder and, from a communication standpoint, once you have trust, then you can communicate at a much deeper level, because it removes the barriers and the fear of if I say something, it’s going to be taken a different way, right? So if, if I trust you, tim, and we have spent the time to build trust and rapport, like I can tell you something and I can tell it to you in a way that I expect that it’s going to land with you, and even if it lands a little bit differently or if it lands off of what I thought it might, if we have a trusting relationship, then you’re going to.

John: 45:40

You’re going to recognize that my intent was good, right? Maybe my delivery was bad, right. If we don’t have trust and if we haven’t spent any time building trust. I’m going to hear everything through my lens and interpret it through how I feel. You are saying something because I don’t know any better. Right, right, and that can be good, that can be bad, like someone could. You could get a compliment from someone and you may think that it’s the best thing in the world, and they may just have been saying something kind of off the cuff, like if you don’t, if you don’t really understand where it’s coming from, then it’s really hard to truly understand someone. It makes it much harder to communicate. So building trust is the foundational piece for leaders when it comes to communication.

Tim: 46:24

Yeah, trust is so hard to build but so easy to lose and you know, it’s something that I think people really need to think about as they go through, make decisions. Communicate with people, how they interact and how they make those decisions is really important, which, to me, is also something that builds trust is really important, which, to me, is also something that builds trust. I mean, if you make decisions behind closed doors and don’t give any type of context, especially some hard decisions, trust is gone.

John: 47:07

I mean it’s just gone.

Tim: 47:08

Again, it doesn’t mean you have to go the other way. You don’t have to give everybody all the information either, but there needs to be some open, honest communication, some transparency, some sitting down and both sides being willing to have the hard conversations and understand it’s business it’s not personal Right and be able to approach from that perspective. So trust, you’re right, trust is really paramount.

John: 47:39

Yeah, trust, your trust is is really paramount. Yeah, you know, you mentioned the word transparency super important. Vulnerability, equally as important. You know? Uh, just a quick cheat sheet for for you and your listeners on trust.

John: 47:47

Like people will build trust generally two ways. They’ll either build trust through wanting to, you know, build a relationship with someone, and then that’s how I’m going to learn about trusting them. Uh, do I want to learn more about this person, I want to invest in that relationship, or do I need to see evidence of work over time? Do I need to see evidence of credibility over time before I’ll start to trust someone? So that’s the first question that people need to ask themselves is like when I meet someone, what am I looking for from that person?

John: 48:15

That people need to ask themselves is like when I meet someone, what am I looking for from that person? Am I looking for a personal connection or am I looking to to kind of evaluate them, uh, and see, do they bring value, do they bring credibility? Neither one of them is right or wrong. It’s just a process that we use to build trust. When you can start to understand that about yourself, then you can start to build trust with people quicker, because you know what you’re looking for exactly and then you can start to ask those questions of people too, right when it comes to you know, kind of feeding or feeling out where their trust uh, where their trust levers are and the things that they use to build trust. So, like using that cheat sheet, using that that process can really streamline building trust with people quickly.

Tim: 48:54

Yeah, it’s so true, but again you said it you got to know who you are first and how you build that trust, or what’s important to you in building trust and what your process is which is you know we can. We can go down that rabbit hole and talk for hours on that too. So Absolutely. But, john, this has been really good stuff. Where can people find you if they want to work with you?

John: 49:19

Yeah, so people can uh go to my website, um, wwwthewinnersedgecoachingcom. Uh, the place that I’m really probably the most present and active is on LinkedIn. Um, so linkedincom slash in slash, big John little, is where people can find me on LinkedIn. That’s where I typically will spend, that’s kind of my social platform of choice and that’s where I engage with most folks on there.

Tim: 49:45

And John, I’ll tell you and I’ll tell the listeners too. You got to follow John. He puts out some really really good information. It’s timely, it’s actionable, it’s on point information. It’s timely, it’s actionable, it’s on point. Now I’m not saying others on LinkedIn, don’t do that. But John, you do a really, really good job of that and so hopefully listeners will start following you there, but again.

Tim: 50:09

John, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I love what you’re saying. I think that our audience is going to get a lot of good, actionable advice out of this and some things to think about whether it’s getting rid of that voice in our head, being confident enough to take that next step, just to start doing the thing, whatever it is, and just lean into who you are.

John: 50:34

Yeah, Thank you, Tim. I really appreciate this opportunity. Talking about leadership and talking about confidence and all I mean. These things are my professional love language, so anytime I get a chance to share it, I’m really grateful. So thank you for this opportunity.

Tim: 50:48

All right, my friend, you take care and we’ll talk to you soon.

John: 50:51

Sounds good, you too.

Tim: 50:53

Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom to get your free ebook Top 200 Challenges for Public Speakers and how to Overcome them. You can also register for the Formula for Public Speaking. Always remember your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time, take care.