Tim Newman [00:00:00]:
Foreign. Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, a podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Make sure you hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Today's guest is Brianne Rush. She is the founder of the Independence Lab, where she helps Gen Z women transition from college to career. With confidence, she landed her dream job and climbed the ladder fast, from intern to managing editor in a year and employee to VP in 4.

Tim Newman [00:00:49]:
But it wasn't because she followed the traditional rules. She learned how to decode the unspoken workplace dynamics, overcome her fear of public speaking, and advocate for herself. Recognized by platforms like Forbes, Success and Women We Admire, she is dedicated to unlocking career growth for a new generation. Brianne, welcome to the show.

Brianne Rush [00:01:09]:
Thank you, Tim, so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Tim Newman [00:01:12]:
Well, I'm glad because, you know, when you first reached out to me, one of the things that really, really stood out to me, which is kind of rare, you know, when you graduated college, you truly went for it. I mean, you. You put yourself out there and you went for what you. What you had worked for and what you wanted to do. And this is, you know, for everybody that's listening, this is how things turn out. If you. If you go for what you want and you do the work, success happens.

Brianne Rush [00:01:44]:
That's so true. I mean, I knew that I wanted to move to New York and work as a journalist since I was eight years old. And. And if I didn't do that, I would have regretted it for my entire life. So I had no choice, Tim. I had to go for it.

Tim Newman [00:01:57]:
Yeah. It's why New York, though, because, yeah, obviously what you were doing, you know, in media and those types of things, but why New York was. It was part of it to truly get away and immerse yourself in. In your. In your career and in the culture of. Of what you wanted to do. And what did you. What did you learn from that overall experience of truly immersing yourself in.

Tim Newman [00:02:27]:
In what you were doing?

Brianne Rush [00:02:29]:
So when I say journalist, I am a trained journalist. However, I wasn't like the hardcore news. I wasn't interested in writing about breaking news in politics or the murder down the street. Like, I wanted more so to do the human interest stuff. And I also was a competitive dancer. So these elements of my Life kind of came together. This idea of writing, this idea of dance, theater, performance, it all seemed to blossom in New York. That seemed to be like the Mecca of all of the things that I was interested in.

Brianne Rush [00:03:03]:
And I had visited a couple times, you know, growing up, especially in high school, and I just felt that energy in my bones. So I just knew that was like the place for me. And so immersing myself in that seemed like the only way to truly make that dream come true is to go in there, combine what was the essence of me, you know, this idea of performance and writing and all of these things coming together. And it just seemed like that was the only place I could go to do all of the things and truly be myself. I just really felt like that was the answer for the first leg of my career.

Tim Newman [00:03:40]:
Right, and, and what did you, what did you actually learn from that? From not only a, a professional perspective, but a personal perspective? Because I, you know, the whole idea, I think where we're at now in society is the idea of work life balance, which, you know, that's a different discussion for a different day. I think there's some validity there. But, you know, to get your career started, obviously that's what you felt you had to do and it worked out. But what did you learn coming out of that as you started to grow your career and get a little bit older?

Brianne Rush [00:04:13]:
There's so much learning there. And I won't say that I didn't enjoy it. I worked really hard. In fact, I remember my boss coming over to my desk at 7pm and being like, what are you doing? Go home. You know, like, I worked hard, I really did put in the effort, but I was also in this brand new place where I got to explore. And so every day I would get off the subway at a different stop and go explore the city and oh my God. So yeah, and I think it was this, this balance to what you're saying is I worked really hard to get where I was and that was so important because I was able to get, you know, I moved there as an unpaid intern and within three weeks I was offered a full time position. And then I got a promotion and another promotion to, to that dream role.

Brianne Rush [00:04:54]:
And so that hard work, it, you know, I went there not knowing anybody. And so that was a huge lesson for me. Right there is when you put yourself in the right places and you work really hard and you, you know, do the things that you're really passionate about, you can move up, you don't have to necessarily know the right People, or, you know, you can start at the bottom and make your way to the top if you work really hard. But I also developed a lot of friendships and got really close with the people in that office and developed this love for this city.

Tim Newman [00:05:29]:
And.

Brianne Rush [00:05:29]:
And so the other side of that was to really be in the moment. And I actually wrote about this in one of my posts. Is I. Part of my job was actually going to Broadway shows like How Lucky am I?

Tim Newman [00:05:41]:
Oh, my God.

Brianne Rush [00:05:42]:
And yeah. And so one night I'm walking home and it happens to be this path, you know, from the Broadway theater to my apartment through Times Square. And yes, there's this negative connotation of Times Square in Taurus. I get it. But, like, I'm living my life, my best life, walking from Broadway to my apartment in New York City through time Times Square. And I just stopped and I looked around and I was like, holy moly, this is my life. And I just soaked it in. And this was before smartphones.

Brianne Rush [00:06:10]:
So I didn't, like, you know, take a video with my phone or anything. I literally just absorbed it. And that has been a huge lesson in my life, is to actually absorb and enjoy the moments. And, you know, I. I'm so thankful for that. But it, you know, as far as, like, career goes, as far as putting yourself out there goes, it was. It just taught me that you have to do it. You got to go for it.

Brianne Rush [00:06:34]:
There's no choice.

Tim Newman [00:06:36]:
Yeah. You know, I love that for you, and I love that the whole idea that you were living in the moment and, you know, didn't pull out the phone and take pictures and those other types of things, you know, and I think that that's a. That's a big difference in generations, too, because I. I don't. That's not. My first go to. Is to pull up my phone and take a picture or take a video. And people say, well, why didn't you take a picture? I said, that thought never crossed my mind.

Tim Newman [00:07:02]:
I was just there. I was just experiencing whatever it was, you know, and. And now we have to document everything. But I gotta tell you, you know, when you just said that you're. You got off a different subway stop every. Every night, my. My dad vibes kicked in. I was like, oh, my God.

Tim Newman [00:07:19]:
That would have driven me nuts as your father. No, no, you get on. This is where you go. You stop. You get. You go from your office to home. You don't make any stops in between. I don't know if you heard me go gasp, because, oh, my God.

Tim Newman [00:07:33]:
You know, that's just me as a, as a dad. But anyway, I love that you did that because it's so important and we have to, if we're ever going to get anywhere in life, we have to take chances, we have to put in the work and we have to actually do the thing, whatever that thing is for each individual.

Brianne Rush [00:07:51]:
Yep.

Tim Newman [00:07:51]:
And, and if we don't, there's going to be regrets down, down the line. So, so let's, let's fast forward a little bit in, in your, in your career now as again, I got tears coming down my face. I'm so happy for you. It's. Sorry.

Brianne Rush [00:08:06]:
I'm so sorry.

Tim Newman [00:08:07]:
It's allergies and, and it really is. You know, my, my kids say, because I do, I am an emotional person and especially with my kids and something emotional going on, I just tell them, I'm sweating, my eyes are sweating, it's hot in here. But anyway, let's fast forward to your current career. You know, the position that you're in, you tend up to, tend to be interviewing and hiring a lot of people. What are you seeing in this process and how has that changed over the course of your career from the time, you know, from you being an intern, being on that side of the, of the table to where you're at now?

Brianne Rush [00:08:46]:
Yeah, so absolutely. In my day job I am VP of operations for a digital marketing agency and we hire different specialties, copywriting, design, SEO or RevOps. And I get to talk to all these people and when they apply, when they upload their resume and their cover letter, our AI on the background now can tell us, you know, they match 60% or 70% or 100% of your job description. And in my position, what I would love to see a better combination for a hire in my opinion is somebody that matches 60, 70, 80%. But when you talk to them, they have so much passion, they have so much curiosity. It's coming through that they are a self learner and want to grow into this role versus somebody who matches 95 or 100%. And they just don't have that drive, that curiosity to want to learn and grow. So the first combination is much more desirable on the employer's end, in my opinion, than the other side.

Brianne Rush [00:09:54]:
And what that, that breaks down to me to mean is that your hard skills are important, of course, but it's those soft skills that are maybe sometimes even more important. And what I like to say is that confidence and curiosity is going to outrank your credentials, especially these first time roles coming out of college or early in your career. And so it's so important to let that shine in your resume. Show how you have started doing these different programs or learning certifications on your own, not necessarily even through school, just something that you've decided to do in your cover letter. Let your voice shine through. Don't like, make it sound like a robot, because, man, anybody can have a robot write their cover letter now these days. And then, you know, in that interview, make sure people know you love to learn, you are curious about things, you are willing to put in the extra effort to learn and to grow.

Tim Newman [00:10:53]:
Yeah. And I'm glad you said that. AI is such a, it's such a great, it's a great tool. It really is. And the more that I'm using it, the more that I'm learning about really is a good tool. And it's making some things very, very easy. But on the back end, you know, because it's very, very easy to take a job description, pop it into ChatGPT, and give it a really good prompt to tell you to write a really good cover letter for that job description. But the fact of the matter is you can sh.

Tim Newman [00:11:25]:
You can shoot that off to you, and then you and I are going to talk about it, and that cover letter is not going to match what's coming out of my mouth exactly.

Brianne Rush [00:11:35]:
And there's some clues now where people are starting to say, oh, that must be written by AI and, and you don't want that. That's the exact wrong thing to have happen. So if you can use it as, say, an editor or something to bounce your ideas off of something to amplify your work, your strategy, your thoughts, it's a great tool. And if you're not using it for that, you're probably behind. But if you let it do your strategy or your thinking for you, if you let it be your voice, you've already lost.

Tim Newman [00:12:03]:
Yeah. And to follow that up, you know that when you talk about, you know, being curious and, and being proactive, that's going to shine through too. Because if that's doing that, you're number one. You're not being curious at all and you're not being proactive. You're not showing that enthusiasm to do the work to do, to comes back to doing the thing, whatever that, whatever that thing is for anybody, right, to, to get ahead, to, to be good at what you do, actually do. And that's just going to. People are going to see through that real easy. And that's what I think, from my perspective is so hard to get younger people to understand.

Tim Newman [00:12:44]:
It's real obvious when you're not being authentic. It's real obvious. It comes through really, really quick.

Brianne Rush [00:12:51]:
Yeah, and I'm so glad you used the word proactive because every employer wants somebody who is proactive. They would much rather hire somebody that is, you know, in that mid range of hard skills, but is proactive and will learn versus somebody who's just going to come in and check off some, you know, their to do list and go home, even if they're working from home. But like that proactiveness is such a key factor in hiring.

Tim Newman [00:13:16]:
So how do you show, how would you suggest, you know, Gen Z shows that they're proactive?

Brianne Rush [00:13:24]:
I'm glad we're getting there because I think in the interview, you know, we're, we're speaking with confidence here and that's such a big place, you know, in your life where you are speaking and you need to have confidence. But it is so easy to be nervous, it is so easy to lose yourself in during those interviews and, and lose that confidence. And so the biggest thing that you can do to actually show up confidently and show that you are curious and proactive during those interviews is to prepare stories that align with the job description bullet points. So what do I mean by that? I mean print out that job description that you're going to apply for and for each one of those bullets of their responsibilities, think about a time in your past where you can tell a story about how you actually did that. So in my case, I'm talking a lot about, you know, people who are just graduating from college. They, they probably did not have a full time job prior to this that they pull from. However, you may have a part time job, you may be bagging groceries, you may be doing volunteer work, you may be the head of your newspaper at your college or part of clubs, you may just babysit your siblings. Whatever it is you have something that you can pull from to showcase that.

Brianne Rush [00:14:45]:
And the best, best way to show that you are proactive and curious and actually be remembered during those interviews is to tell a story. So you know, if the job description says you must be organized, don't just say I'm organized, I'm a type a person. Tell the story about how you are the editor of the newspaper and everything, you know, collapsed during COVID and so you had to reorganize everything. Tell whatever that story is, tell it and that will be remembered in a way that's much more impactful than just saying I'm X, Y and Z, those adjectives aren't going to mean a whole lot to them.

Tim Newman [00:15:25]:
Right. And just using that example, if you think about it and talk about organization, what the person on the other side of the table can deduce from that is, wow, this person cannot organize things, but they can organize their thoughts in a complete thought, rational sentence. That makes sense. That is, is really kind of what we need and what we're lacking in for a person in this role. That's. And that checks off. That, that checks off another box that you don't even know that you're checking off yet.

Brianne Rush [00:15:58]:
Yes, those emotional intelligence skills are so, so important, Tim. It's, it's unbelievable how you can be so valuable in your hard skills, but if you can't talk about it, if you can't communicate the value of those skills and what you're doing on a daily basis, it's not going to come through your interview if you happen to get the job, it's not going to come through in a way where you're going to be on everybody's minds for promotions or raises. You have to be able to communicate in a way that is going to showcase the value of what you and your team is working on.

Tim Newman [00:16:32]:
Yeah. And so let's, let's take that and take another step backwards now. Okay. You advance really quickly in your career. Okay. What do you attribute that to? And how can we relate that to Gen Z today going through the same type of career progression that you went through? Because again, you're highly motivated, you're in this dream job space. And yes, you move up one really quick, but you did some, did some, some very intentional things that it wouldn't really matter where you, where you're at, that you could put these things into places. What were they?

Brianne Rush [00:17:16]:
Yes. And so obviously it is to develop your, your core skills. Right. You want to keep learning in those things. That goes without being said. But what you should also be focusing on is improving what I'm referring to as emotional intelligence skills or soft skills. And this is the perfect place. You know, speaking with confidence is one core pillar of it, is being able to communicate well.

Brianne Rush [00:17:42]:
But that's what I did is I really focused on a couple areas. One was self awareness. So when I fumble or get nervous, I need to really understand what that means. What is it that made me nervous? What is it that made me kind of stumble in that case, and how do I fix that for next time? So I like to tell this story of how I completely bombed my very first interview. That Ended up landing me that New York internship we talked about. But it was my first interview. I just. I really didn't know how to prepare for it very well.

Brianne Rush [00:18:17]:
And the person asked me a question and I did not have an answer. My head went blank and I started to panic. But what I actually ended up doing was taking a couple deep breaths. And I really just thought, okay, how can I come out of this without, you know, completely losing this job? So I asked the interviewer, I just said, can we come back to that question? So we continued on with the interview. She asked the rest of her questions. I quickly did a little research, and then at the end of the interview, I said, you know, I'm ready to come back and answer that question. I did. We got off the phone.

Brianne Rush [00:18:54]:
I'm like, no way am I getting that job. But what actually happened is she was so impressed with how I handled myself that she created that internship for me. That position didn't exist. She created it for me, and that's how I ended up moving out to New York and getting that role. So that's kind of that second part of it. You understand what sets you off. But then the self regulation part is second. So knowing how to calm yourself down, if you do get into one of those nervous bits or you stumble over your words or whatever it is, it's going to tee you off.

Brianne Rush [00:19:28]:
How do you actually handle that now and regulate your. Your body and your system to come back to a place where you can calmly and confidently keep going? So that's number two, is I really worked at that and figuring out what that meant for me. And then communication skills are the biggest, biggest thing here for a lot of people and more so as AI comes to, you know, quote, unquote, take our jobs, AI can't necessarily get in the room and lead a team. It can't necessarily lead a presentation to a client. It can't do customer service in a way that's going to calm somebody down. So speaking having those communication skills, those presentation skills, that is going to be really helpful. And that's something that I really, really worked on for myself, because I used to be terrified to speak in front of people, or if you put a camera in front of my face, I would panic. Obviously, you and I are chatting here on camera.

Brianne Rush [00:20:26]:
So I have overcome that. And it's because I practiced. I put myself in the room to keep doing it over and over again, even when I was feeling nervous about it or thought that I wasn't good at it. And so I would highly recommend Anybody coming up in their career to put themselves in the room or put themselves in the situation where they are a little bit nervous, but in, outside of their comfort zone, but do it anyway. So something that I did to your point was at our digital marketing agency, it wasn't really anybody's job to take sales calls. We didn't have an actual salesperson at the time. And so I said, well, I'll do it. And I was terrified and not trained as a, as a sales rep, but I got on these calls, got on these zooms, and I just did it.

Brianne Rush [00:21:15]:
I learned how to spend, go in there, speak with confidence and communicate our value. And so that is something that, with time, doing it over and over again, I got pretty good at and ended up having, you know, the best numbers at our firm of closing. And so now people are looking at me like, oh, she can do these things. She can do these skill sets and speak well, hardly anybody else can do it if you can get good at these things.

Tim Newman [00:21:43]:
Right?

Brianne Rush [00:21:44]:
And that doesn't mean, Tim, you and I talk about this. We don't have to be perfect. It's okay for you to say the wrong word or fix your sentence or whatever it needs to be. You don't have to be perfect, but you just have to be good enough to do it and get yourself in the room and do it confidently. That people are going to start looking at you in a different way, and that's what's going to make them say, oh, he or she is ready for that promotion. He or she can lead that team. And that's exactly what I did.

Tim Newman [00:22:13]:
Yeah. And I talk about, you know, progress, not perfection. Progress, not perfection. And you know, I, if, if you're like, if you're going to allow the whole idea of you have to be perfect before you do anything, we don't get out of bed. Right? I mean, you don't get out of bed because you, you're, you're not going to do anything perfectly. And you know, I'm a systems person and, you know, I function very well with, okay, doing, doing something, you know, the same way every time. If it works, if it doesn't work, obviously change the system. But even, even doing, you know, system work, it doesn't come out the same every time.

Tim Newman [00:22:55]:
But you're, you're, you do this, this, this, this and this. And, and however it comes out, it comes out. But, you know, you, you've got to find ways to get over that, that perfection piece of whatever it is for everybody. Because we all, we all, we're all different. We all succeed differently and progress differently. But find a way that you can get over that whole idea of perfection and just make progress to get better every day. 5 or 10% better every day. And I liken to the sports industry as an athlete.

Tim Newman [00:23:28]:
Nothing's ever done perfectly. But the best athletes in the world have always gone back to fundamentals and practice fundamentals over and over and over again. So, you know, understand from, you know, the young professional's perspective. Guys, you just put yourself out there. It's okay to be, to feel uncomfortable.

Brianne Rush [00:23:50]:
Yeah. I'm not a big sports person, but I do know some of the best baseball players in the world are only batting.300, which is 30% right. That's the right math. So if they are getting paid millions to do that, it's okay to not be perfect, but put yourself out there.

Tim Newman [00:24:05]:
Yeah. And, and so, so as, as you, as you're volunteering to do things that are, that put you outside the comfort zone, what else comes with that? Because there's also good and bad because we, we don't want to be the person that's the yes person all the time either. We've got to start developing some, some boundaries and say, okay, you know, if you want me to work on this, I can't do those other things. So how did you manage those types of expectations especially. And, you know, I don't talk about this a lot, but especially from being the female perspective, because the females are generally the ones that are the ones that, that say yes to everything just because they're people pleasers. So how did you manage those types of issues?

Brianne Rush [00:24:48]:
Yeah, I kept my eye on the things that were going to advance me. So instead of raising my hand to plan the office party, that was not, that was not going to advance me. That was not. That was going to take up my time. And I was not passionate. I'm. I didn't even like planning my own wedding. So, you know, that planning is just not something that I'm passionate about.

Brianne Rush [00:25:09]:
I didn't see that as helping my career grow.

Tim Newman [00:25:11]:
Right.

Brianne Rush [00:25:12]:
So I didn't raise my hand to plan the party. I didn't raise my hand to necessarily clean out the refrigerator in the, you know, communal kitchen. Those are the things that I was like, you know, I'm willing to help and do my part, of course, but I'm not going to raise my hand just because I'm a woman in the places I'm willing to clean or plan the party. So I think keeping your eye on the ball and really being able to determine this, you know, this project over here is kind of messy and nobody's role, and it's not my role. But I can see how if I do this, I could see the next couple of steps that's going to help me with. And so I'm willing to raise my hand for that. But over here, this one is just kind of there. And somebody without necessarily my zone of genius can.

Brianne Rush [00:26:01]:
Can accomplish that. That's something that maybe somebody else can raise their hand for. It's not something that I need to feel like I have to take on because somebody's asking. So just trying to determine which lanes are going to work out for you and which ones are going to have the biggest payoff for the company. You know, that's something that's important, is the impact on the company. That party probably isn't going to have the same impact as you jumping into sales and making those numbers. So where should you try to apply yourself? That's an important part of that.

Tim Newman [00:26:35]:
Yeah. And understand, truly understand that there's. There's a difference between being, like you said, being a team player and doing your part and. And doing the things that are going to advance, not only, you know, you and your role with. With the. With the company, but also is going to advance the company. Because if you're taking your time, if. If you're the number one salesperson, why are you going to take some time away from doing that, from generating revenue for the organization to.

Tim Newman [00:27:11]:
To plan the party? And I'm not. You know, that is what it is. Right. It's. Those things are important as well. But from the big picture, I need to be focusing my time over here. I need to make sure that. That we're intentional with what we want and.

Tim Newman [00:27:29]:
And be able to have intentional conversations with supervisors about these types of things.

Brianne Rush [00:27:34]:
Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:27:35]:
Because there's a right way and a wrong way to have difficult conversations.

Brianne Rush [00:27:39]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:27:40]:
As well.

Brianne Rush [00:27:41]:
Yeah, you're right. And you still have to be somebody that people want to work with. Like, I wasn't leaving dirty dishes in the sink. That. That's not what I mean by this.

Tim Newman [00:27:49]:
Right.

Brianne Rush [00:27:49]:
I just mean that, you know, using your. Now you. Let's say you've done all this work to build up your communication skills and you're really good at that. Your boss, your company, they would rather you utilize that in a way to impact the bottom line. Somebody who's really good at team building, they should be in that. Their zone of genius for that party. So just understanding your strengths and their strengths and how that should work.

Tim Newman [00:28:14]:
Yeah. But then again, it gets back to something that you and I talked about before as well. You know, knowing who you are as an individual. You know, you, you have, you have to truly understand who you are and what you're good at, what you need to work, work on your value system, what makes you tick, all those types of things. You have to know that going into it and in your current role. Where do you think we are from the younger generations in knowing who they are as individuals? Where do you think we are in that stage?

Brianne Rush [00:28:50]:
I actually think that the younger generation is probably doing better than we are in that instance. That's. Yeah, that's my opinion. You know, this is kind of a silly thing, but, you know, watching some of these reality TV shows, these younger people are asking, well, what's your love language? I would have never asked that. You know, when I was dating, I would have never asked that. And so I think that they are taking the time to really evaluate who they are. They are meditating more. You know, I have done an interview with this, a young man named Jack Wagner.

Brianne Rush [00:29:24]:
He is say, you know, we had this whole conversation about how it used to be kind of like this, Woo, woo. People who look at you silly if you said you meditate, it's not like that anymore. A lot of people are getting into that to have that quiet space, whether it's, you know, sitting there like this or not. It's having that quiet time to yourself to really think through who you are, what you value, like you said. And I think people are beginning to be a lot more in tune with that. So you know, they're, they're asking about love languages, they are meditating. And I'm reading all the time that Gen Z is saying they don't actually want those mid manager jobs anymore because it's just not worth the trade off to their, to their mental health or their social health. And so I, I really do think in my time when I was coming the, you know, through my career, it was just go, go, go, hustle, hustle, hustle, get to the top as fast as you can.

Brianne Rush [00:30:18]:
And I don't necessarily think that people are saying that's the only path anymore.

Tim Newman [00:30:22]:
Right.

Brianne Rush [00:30:22]:
So in my opinion, you know, that might be a hot take, but I do think Gen Z is taking the time to know themselves a little bit more.

Tim Newman [00:30:29]:
Well, you know what I think, I think it's great whether I think it's right or not. I mean, if that's what you're seeing, I think that's Awesome. I think, I think, I think it's great. And I think they're, you know, as they get older, just like anything else, you know, we talked about how, you know, you got to a point where, okay, what, what's the next step in my life? What's the next professional step? What's the next step in my personal life? And I think, you know, really, my generation and the generation before me, there was no next step. This is what you were going to do and that's what you were going to do.

Brianne Rush [00:31:09]:
Yep.

Tim Newman [00:31:09]:
Right. So, so people, my generation are starting to have, starting to have, you know, second and third professional lives. And, you know, as, as the younger generations start, start coming up, you know, they're gonna, they're. My guess is they're going to see, okay, this is where I was in this season of my life. Now it's time to move on to another season. And that next season is going to mean that I do things differently or I want different things, or I'm going to have to work differently or do those. Whatever we need to do to make our life to be happy in the life that we're living. And if that's what they're doing now, that's awesome because it's going to make that next transition for their life even easier.

Brianne Rush [00:31:55]:
Absolutely. I think it's all around knowing yourself, but not trapping yourself. Right. So for me, I knew I wanted to be a journalist and live in New York. That's what I wanted to do. But it was a really hard decision for me. For after a couple years, I kind of, you know, missed my family who lived in Ohio, and I wasn't as passionate about the role I was in anymore. You know, dance, the magazine I worked for was a dance magazine.

Brianne Rush [00:32:24]:
And, and I, like, I said I got to go to these Broadway shows and stuff, but there was just, I, I looked at it and I said, is this it? For the rest of my life, am I going to be talking about dance? And I was like, I don't think so. Right. So, so I ended up moving back to Ohio and really taking a year to reevaluate. And I ended up in content marketing, which, what I mentioned is that through line I was still using my writing skills and telling stories, but it was in a completely different way, in a completely different place. And I was able to grow that career. And so I never felt trapped. And I think that's important because, you know, my, my dad, he was an accountant and worked at the same place for 40 plus years. He's still working There, even though he's supposed to be retired.

Brianne Rush [00:33:10]:
That's, you know, that's, I think one generation's kind of view of career. Mine has been more so freedom to, to pick and choose. But we, you know, kind of made at least those decisions to just do a couple things or maybe to just make a couple pivots. You know, Gen Z is kind of seeing, kind of known as this job hopper generation where they're going year after year getting new job, new job, new job. And that's something that they have to kind of overcome and figure out for themselves is when is it appropriate to take a new job, maybe you know, increase that salary or you know, get into AI, get into tech or get into these new things that are developing all the time, which is great and you should make those moves in your career. But when is it maybe good to stay? Because you like the work culture, you like your role, and you can have the freedom or at least the pathway to move up and continue to make an impact. And that's going back and you know, to that idea of self awareness and what's going to be best for you and your career. But it's, yeah, it's definitely changed throughout the generations, for sure.

Tim Newman [00:34:15]:
Yeah. And I also think that, you know, the whole idea of job hopping is from an HR perspective and a hiring perspective, it's, it's, you know, to a certain extent it, it's not penal anymore. You know, you, it's, it seemed as natural. It's okay. Okay. So, you know, I think where you really get into problems, if every year, you know, you're, you're staying in place for a year, that, that to me, you know, and you're doing it for four or five years in a row, that, to me that is where it becomes problematic. But you know, every couple years, why not? I mean if, if, if there's growth, if there's salary, if there's, you know, what interest change, like, you know, like you said. And I think, you know, in all honesty, you know, I've had, I've gone through, through changing jobs and the, the, the stress, I, I, I knew it was time to leave, but the stress of actually making the decision and following through on the decision that it was, it was hard as opposed to now, you know, it's okay, it's time to leave.

Tim Newman [00:35:24]:
So we're gonna, we're gonna start doing things to leave. And like I say, just, just do the thing. And I'm applying that to myself too. Why didn't I just do the thing instead of causing all the stress. Right. And, you know, so, like, the first time, first faculty job, I was there almost 20 years, and I knew after 15 it was time to go. So I stayed. And you know, for whatever reasons, and, and it was.

Tim Newman [00:35:50]:
I mean, I, I would go back there in a second, you know, because I love the people and those types of things. But, you know, when, when you get to a point in your career that you feel stale, that you know there's something else out there, it's okay to start exploring what those things are. Don't. Don't bottle it up. And that's for. For really out my generation. The younger generations have seemed to have a pretty good handle on that.

Brianne Rush [00:36:12]:
Yeah, I have a similar situation, Tim. When I was trying to decide if I was going to leave that dream job that I had in New York, I worked myself up and had this ball of pain in my stomach for weeks where, like, you could touch it and I would just like, kind of double over in pain. And one day I just. I couldn't take it anymore. I literally, like, had to roll myself out of bed and get myself into a taxi and go to the hot. The ER in New York by myself. I know nobody, nobody can come to the hospital. Help me, like, literally taking a taxi to the hospital because I am in so much pain.

Brianne Rush [00:36:47]:
I remember the person doing my intake, she said, okay, on a scale of 1 to 10, what's your pain? And you know me trying to not necessarily, like, be a crybaby about it. I'm like, seven. She goes, I'm gonna give you an eight. Like, it was that bad. And so they did all these tests and they could not figure it out. I just had this random ball of pain. But what happened to him was after I made the final decision to be like, yeah, I'm moving home. I'm quitting this job.

Brianne Rush [00:37:17]:
Guess what went away. Like, how bad is that? That's terrible. People should not get themselves worked up into a ball of pain over a job. It just shouldn't be that bad.

Tim Newman [00:37:28]:
Right? And, you know, and I'm. Listeners don't take this wrong way. A lot of times we do it to ourselves. Now, there are times that you're in a toxic environment and that's, that's. I'm not talking about that. But a lot of times we do that to ourselves. We're the ones who've worked ourselves to that point. Because if we're, if we're in a good professional relationship, just like a good personal relationship, whoever that relationship, all they want is what's best for you.

Tim Newman [00:37:56]:
They want to help you. They want you to grow. They want you to. To be healthy and be successful. And for whatever reason, we do these things to ourselves, and it's okay to be able to have those conversations. Like, again, having tough conversations with your supervisor, no different than having a tough conversation with your family, your friends, your significant others, whatever that is. And all they want is what's best for you. But again, take out the whole toxic environment thing.

Tim Newman [00:38:25]:
I'm not talking about that.

Brianne Rush [00:38:26]:
Yeah, no, no, it wasn't. It wasn't toxic for me at all. I did it to myself. I think it was that guilt of, like, I've worked for this. I'm in where I want. I'm where I said I wanted to be, and now I'm gonna just check it all, you know, like, it was kind of that guilt of it.

Tim Newman [00:38:40]:
Yeah, Been there, done it, understand it, you know, but we learn from it. And again, hopefully, these types of conversations help those younger generations. And again, like I said, they seem to have a much better handle on it at this point in their life. And hopefully, as they. As they go through their different life stages and they have families, kids, and other responsibilities, they can, like, they can look back on these times and say, you know what? I'm in a different life stage, but the same ideas still apply. Let's have a plan and move forward with that. With that plan. I'm not.

Tim Newman [00:39:16]:
Again, I'm not advocating anybody to do things on a whim either. That's the. That's the other side, so.

Brianne Rush [00:39:23]:
Right. Yeah, you got it. You got to think through it, do what's best for you.

Tim Newman [00:39:26]:
Right.

Brianne Rush [00:39:26]:
But there's no need to get, you know, worked up the way that you and I did. And I. I think that it may even be a little bit switched now. You know, the tech companies are doing massive layoffs. That used to be an embarrassment. Now it's kind of like a badge of honor that they're doing these layoffs. So people are being forced to do these job changes or career changes, too. And so they may be struggling in a different way than you and I did.

Brianne Rush [00:39:50]:
But it's important to remember that this is your career. It is not you. It is not your essence, your value as a human.

Tim Newman [00:39:57]:
Right, Exactly. Exactly. So talk about the independence Lab, because I love the whole setup with that, what you're doing, what you're actually doing with this and how you're helping people.

Brianne Rush [00:40:10]:
So when I looked back at my job and connected those. Those dots in my career and what Helped me move up. And then again, like we talked about, I'm doing these interviews now to bring people into the company. And I'm just looking at it. I'm saying, man, the people who are really shining. The way that I shown in my career was through emotional intelligence. You know, I wasn't the best writer, I wasn't the most tech savvy, I was never the best dancer. But the way that I moved up and made these steps was through the things that we've been talking about here.

Brianne Rush [00:40:41]:
So through self awareness, through self regulation, through communication skills, empathy skills, through that motivation. Those are kind of the five elements that make up this idea of emotional intelligence. And so what I want people to realize through the Independence Lab is that they can build a career foundation on building that, that skill set there, those five things, and moving those. That part of the needle is what's actually going to move your career needle. And so building that foundation directly out of college, in the beginnings of their career, they're going to be way ahead of people because I didn't necessarily learn those lessons until I was looking backward. And I'm seeing these people come through the interview process where they either don't have those skills or they might have the beginning of those skills, but they don't necessarily know how to talk about it. So that's what I'm hoping the Independence Lab does for these young women is to really give them the resource to understand that anybody can learn emotional intelligence. It doesn't.

Brianne Rush [00:41:47]:
It's not something that you have to be born with so you can learn it and give them the skills to do that. It's all free content. So we've got a blog, we've got a weekly newsletter that you can sign up for, and it just shows up in your inbox once a week. And it's super easy to get through and read some sort of takeaway from that. And then most recently, I've been interviewing really successful women and talking about how they've used emotional intelligence to build their careers. So it's all available, the independencelab.com for you to go and just learn, start learning this idea of emotional intelligence that's.

Tim Newman [00:42:19]:
Amazing and obviously it's good work and needs to be shared and people need to do that. I think it's awesome. And I'm sure, you know, interviewing some, some of these really successful women, it is, is powerful. And, you know, you're learning things and yeah, your, your community is going to learn, learn a ton of things. It's sharing, sharing stories about how we've how we've gone from point a, as a. As a young professional, not knowing in from out, right from wrong, up from down, whatever, and seeing that progression and growth to people that we see or think that we think that they've got it all together and noticing some of the stories that they tell, it just gives you so much more confidence to say, you know what? It's not a straight line. It's an up and down. There's good, there's bad, there's good things that happened, there's bad things that happen, but you got to navigate it.

Tim Newman [00:43:23]:
And eventually, if you keep doing the work, this is where you could end up.

Brianne Rush [00:43:28]:
It's so true. It's so true. You know, and what I love about these interviews and even what I've been writing about my own self is not one of us is perfect. We've all been successful or had promotions or gotten our dream jobs or whatever it is for that person. But what I like to ask about are mistakes, surprises, things that they've experienced along the way that the show. It's okay to fall down or make a mistake. It's all about how you handle it. So if somebody's listening and they're thinking, man, I've already kind of messed it up from the start, or I don't have these skills, well, guess what? You can get back up.

Brianne Rush [00:44:06]:
You can learn these skills, you can develop them and build this career. And so I love to have that out there. It's like, yep, super embarrassing. Did this, but I still was able to get promoted after that. And so I think that's really important. Not, not any of this is unachievable or out of your realm of. Of possibility. It's all something that you can just build and work on every single day to get better.

Brianne Rush [00:44:29]:
And it's enjoyable. It's not like you're, you know, out there digging a ditch. It's something that you could just talk to people and. And that happens to get better, you know, you happen to get better at things by just talking to people.

Tim Newman [00:44:40]:
Yeah. That's amazing. And I appreciate the work that you're doing there. Working people, you know, find you and connect with you. Besides the Independence Lab.

Brianne Rush [00:44:48]:
Yeah. So I do daily updates and tips on Instagram. I'm pretty active there. So it's at Brianne Independence Lab. And my name is B R I A N N E. So Brianne Independence Lab on Instagram. And then, Tim, if it's okay with you, I know this is all a little abstract, but I put together this guide that I usually, you know, it's on the site for $19, but for your listeners, I would just give it to them for free to learn and go through some of these prompts and questions and quizzes just to help them understand this idea of emotional intelligence. So if you want to put it in the show notes, they can go to the independence lab.com playbook and get it for free.

Tim Newman [00:45:31]:
That. Brian, that's awesome. I would love to put that in there. You know, I think that would be a great resource for listeners and I can tell you how much I appreciate you doing that. That's awesome. I'll make sure that I put that in the show notes. Could you just text me or email me that link to make sure I get it right? That's awesome.

Brianne Rush [00:45:52]:
Yes, absolutely. I will do that.

Tim Newman [00:45:53]:
That's great. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I really do appreciate it, and we'll talk to you soon.

Brianne Rush [00:46:00]:
Tim, thank you so much for having me.

Tim Newman [00:46:02]:
All right, take care. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Formation for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We'll talk to you next time. Take care.