Tim Newman [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is Rosie Zilinskas. Rosie spent decades climbing the corporate ladder, assuming that results would lead to recognition. But when she finally told a senior executive she wanted a leadership role, his response stunned her. You never said anything.

Tim Newman [00:00:44]:
That moment taught her what so many mid career women eventually realize. Being excellent isn't enough if no one knows what you want. Now, as a certified high performance coach, Colby consultant, and former Fortune 500 executive vice president, Rosie helps ambitious women stop wanting to be chosen and start building careers that they love. Rosie, welcome to the show.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:01:07]:
Thank you so much, Tim, for having me. I'm ready to talk all careers for women. So let's go.

Tim Newman [00:01:13]:
Well, you know, I'm really excited to talk to you about how you help these young professionals, and especially females, prepare and grow in their professional careers. You know, too many people go through their careers hoping somebody notices how great they are, just like you said. But that very rarely happens. That happens for, you know, for many reasons. But can you share your story about how you were overlooked and how you actually turned the table?

Rosie Zilinskas [00:01:38]:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's so interesting because I. Well, first of all, I had gone through a really terrible divorce. And based on the divorce, once that whole situation was done, I was responsible for taking care of my kids financially and my children at the time were 5 and 7. And the only way, Tim, that I knew I could take care of them was getting a promotion, making more money at work. So I kind of hunkered down. I put all of my blood, sweat and tears into becoming what they were calling a high performer. And, you know, so, but, but I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, okay, well, I'm doing all the things, I'm training, backing up my manager.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:02:25]:
I'm the go to person for so many things. And then I saw two people that were younger than me get promoted. And I was like, what? What, what? Like I'm sitting here and nobody talked to me. Nobody asked me like, hey, do you want to, you know, be promoted? Nothing. And then, so, okay, so then I gathered my, you know, my script of what I was going to say and I went and I talked to the senior executive and when I pitched and I said, hey, I want to really, you Know, step into leadership and I want to, you know, make an impact in the organization. He was like, really? And he was just like, so shocking. I was like, what do you mean? Oh, really? And that's when he said, you never said anything. And I was like, oh, my gosh.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:03:14]:
I was just literally sitting there thinking that they were just going to notice my hard work. And when I say they, it's like the senior management team. And I learned a valuable lesson that day because had I not gone to meet with the senior executive and situation say, listen, I want to step into a management role, I. Nothing would have happened to me. And, you know, who knows how much longer I would have stayed there. So that was the, the critical lesson for me that day, Tim.

Tim Newman [00:03:52]:
Yeah, and it's, it's, it's sad that, you know, that we, that so many people find themselves in that situation, you know, because, you know, we, we get into work and we, we go to work wanting to do well, wanting to, you know, progress in our careers, wanting to help people, wanting all those things. And we just assume that people are going to notice that and, and help help us and mentor us along to further grow. And it's, it's sad sometimes that, that if we don't say anything, we get stuck. But that's, that's really the norm. It's not the, you know. Yeah, it's, it's not the, the rules that, that people are willing to see. Wow, Rosie's doing really good job. Let's see what we can do to help her, you know, progress or, you know what.

Tim Newman [00:04:37]:
Rosie's struggling over here. What can we do to help her, you know, get better at this or get better at that. And we, we get so siloed. And I don't think as young professionals, we realize how, how the business community or, or business actually works. If you don't speak up for yourself, just like anything else, nobody else is going to fight that battle for you.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:04:55]:
Absolutely, I agree. And you know, even when I was in the corporate world, we were in charge of onboarding new hire college graduates, like recent college graduates. And I remember, like, people getting annoyed when they were there, like when the college graduates were there for like a year or two and starting to ask for promotions. And it was like they, they need to, you know, make the, or, or have time on the, on the job and stuff like that. And I was like, what is wrong with them, like, asking for a promotion or what, What. I mean, that's what we're trying to teach them to do.

Tim Newman [00:05:31]:
Exactly, exactly. And you know, to your point is if they're not ready for that promotion, that's another teaching moment. Okay? So, yes, we see. We see that you're doing these things really well. But if you want to get this promotion, these are the things that you need to do, or you need to work in this area, you need to work in that area. What have you. Not just beat them down, say what. Who do you think you are asking for a promotion? That's.

Tim Newman [00:05:52]:
That's not. That's not helping anybody.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:05:57]:
Exactly, exactly. And, you know, and I think now that, that I kind of look back on that time, it's the values. And this comes up for me regularly when I talk to people that are older than I am, like, say eight to 10 years older. And they're like, these young kids, they don't want to work hard. And I'm like, that's not true. They want to work hard, but they want to work hard within their values and their boundaries. And just because you think that someone should be working 50, 60 hours and answering the phone on. On the weekend, that's your core value.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:06:34]:
That's not theirs. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Tim Newman [00:06:37]:
Right.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:06:38]:
But. But there's this dichotomy of, like, the older, you know, older generation, younger generations, and what. How they should be living their lives at work, you know?

Tim Newman [00:06:49]:
Yeah. And, you know, I've seen that and I've lived that, and I've had those same discussions. And I've always been the person that says, you know, no matter where I've been in my career, you know, young professional, now obviously, you know, much more older professional. And I'm in that demographic that you talk about where people say that they don't want to work hard. And what I tell people, you know, as I've transitioned out of higher ed, the younger generation is probably, is so much smarter and so much entrepreneurial than any other generation. What they lack is the communication skills. And if we could just guide them in those skills, you're going to see some really, really great work and some really, really great innovations. And again, like you said, it's not that they don't want to work, it's that they.

Tim Newman [00:07:34]:
They've realized and they prioritize different things.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:07:38]:
Yes.

Tim Newman [00:07:39]:
In their life. And we've seen that throughout. We've seen that throughout history. Right. You know, you go back to the greatest generation. It was husband worked, wife didn't work, but he worked and worked and worked and worked. And, you know, so we've transitioned to. We.

Tim Newman [00:07:55]:
Our life doesn't revolve around work anymore. And it's, for some people, it's hard to let that go.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:08:01]:
Yes, absolutely. And it's just like, well, what's it to you? Like, I always think, like, what's it to you if they don't want to work 60 or, you know, 70 hours? That's their choice, it's their life. And I think we just need to understand that, you know, as human beings, we cannot impose our values on other people. And that's kind of part of the communication because as you will know, in the corporate world, there are still generations like, you know, like baby boomers, Gen Xers, and then there's like the millennials. And it's just sometimes there's this like, butting heads. But it all boils down to communication and values.

Tim Newman [00:08:37]:
Yeah. And you know, I had that conversation with my kids on a regular basis. So, you know, my kids are older, I've got grandkids, and my youngest daughter said to me a few years ago, said, dad, I don't want to work like you work. And because I like, I mean, I spend a lot of time at work, but when I also prioritize family. So when I'm not at work, I'm not at work. And so like, I just, I just came back from, from a, from a 10 day, I wouldn't say vacation, but a 10 day away from the office where I spent with the kids and the grandkids and I worked, I worked when they were sleeping, I worked when they were at work and when they, when they were home, guess what we did. We, There was no work. And so you don't maybe teaching them to learn how to prioritize, you know, when it's going to work for them.

Tim Newman [00:09:26]:
And modeling some of that behavior is, could go a long way as well.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:09:32]:
Absolutely, absolutely, I agree. And then along the lines of like communicating, you know, one of the other things that I, that I work like with women is when you are trying to add, because we talk about, you know, advocate for yourself and advocate for yourself, but then we don't explain what, what does that actually mean right now. And essentially what I share with my clients is, listen, you need to be able to explain to your boss, your manager, a hiring manager, how you can help them solve their problems using your skills and your knowledge. And if you're not able to explain that in a clear, succinct manner, then there's going to be no connection and they're going to be like, well, she can't help me. And that's the trick. To how do you advocate for yourself? Well, you start by learning about yourself, understanding who you are, what you like, what you don't like. You know, the core values that we were just talking about. What are your skills? When I was going through my career journey, I purchased that book.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:10:47]:
I'm sure you're aware of the what color is your parachute Book that they publish every year and it's a career development book and it has all these exercises. I did every single exercise in that book as I was trying to learn about myself and figure out how can I explain to somebody that I can bring value to the organization. And once you're able to understand that about yourself and that's when you can start self advocating for yourself and explaining again. And it's all about. A lot of times when we are interviews, it's always like it's me, me, me, me, what I can do, I can. But no, it's really active listening about solving their problem and bringing stories that you know, that are relevant to that, you know. Well, I have a challenge in my team with, you know, communication. Well, hey, you know, I've done a lot of communication work.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:11:42]:
I can help you with that because I did it in this organization. So that's when you start connecting the dots for people and they start imagining you being there as part of their team.

Tim Newman [00:11:53]:
Right. And that is so important. You bring up a couple really good points in there. First and foremost, knowing who you are, learning what you believe, what your values are. We don't do enough of that. We don't teach young generations enough of that. And I don't want to throw the school system under the bus, but I think in some ways our school system has failed our kids. And that's in one of the ways.

Tim Newman [00:12:23]:
Not really teaching them how to be critical thinkers, not really teaching them how to learn who they are. And we just as when they come to us, we just expect that they've already figured it out. But it hasn't. And that's a life journey too, because our values probably aren't going to change. But what we like, what we don't like and what we're doing, what we want to do are going to change throughout our careers. And how we're going to be able to be able to bring value to other people is going to change as well. And teaching them to figure those things out is critically important so that they don't get to, you know, 20 years into a career and well, I didn't realize. I never asked for a promotion.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:13:02]:
That's exactly right. And I was 40 when that happened. So you're absolutely right.

Tim Newman [00:13:07]:
But Rosie, that's not in common. I mean, I've done the same thing. I mean, I was kind of in your same position. I mean, for me, I've had a few professional careers and the last two, for me, transitioning out was very, very difficult because I couldn't figure out what my next step was going to be. I knew that this one was winding down and coming to an end, but I didn't know what was going to be next. It was very difficult even knowing the process that you need to go through to figure those things out.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:13:41]:
Yes, exactly. And, you know, it's also interesting because you really need a well rounded purview of who you are and you're not able to do that on your own. So one of the other things that I, that I have my clients do is, you know, set up a coffee with five or seven people that you have previously worked with and just ask them a couple of questions. Hey, you know, I'm trying to, well, let them, first of all, let them know that you're trying to develop yourself and give them permission to be honest with you. You have to give them permission and then ask them, what have I done? Well, that you have observed and what can I do better? Because that's where, you know, I, I, I'm a keynote speaker as well. And one of the things that, that I say in my keynote is feedback is fuel, right? Don't consider it criticism. Feedback is fuel to fuel your blind spots on how can you improve yourself. And once you get that, then you can start implementing and develop the, developing those things that they told you so that you can learn about yourself.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:14:51]:
Because again, the way you see me, Tim, is very different than the way I see myself. So those are key things.

Tim Newman [00:15:00]:
So, Rosie, that's another good point. How do you teach people to not take feedback as criticism? And let me give you a really good example of that.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:15:10]:
Okay.

Tim Newman [00:15:12]:
I'm obviously a person who's a lifelong learner, always trying to get better. This, that and the other thing. If my wife tells me that I need to change something, it's instant aggravation. Stop. But and this literally happened about three weeks ago, somebody else told me the exact same thing in almost the exact same words. I was like, wow, that's a really good point. So how do we learn? How do we, how do you teach people to learn how to take feedback not as criticism, but as feedback to help you improve?

Rosie Zilinskas [00:15:44]:
Well, I have this little acronym and I tell people you Know, whenever someone's giving you feedback, you have to take a lap. Meaning first is you really need to. Well, even before you do that, when you know that you're starting or that you're going into a conversation, or even, like, if someone just kind of, you know, tells you, hey, you know what, you left the door open or whatever, you know, it happens at home. Like, you. You kind of have to brace yourself because anytime that we're told that we're doing something wrong, it stings a little bit, right? Because it's like our. Our souls are fragile. And sometimes when. When someone tells you that you're doing something wrong.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:16:20]:
So I say take a lap. Because, you know, in sports, whenever an athlete is having a difficult time or they're angry or whatever, the coach always says, take a lap.

Tim Newman [00:16:28]:
Take a lap. Right.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:16:29]:
So what does take a lap means? Just kind of take a minute and walk it off. But the L is for really listen to what the person is saying to you. The. The second is for activating your listening skills to kind of try to pick up what is it that you're. That you're actually being told. Because what you hear and what you interpret in your mind and your brain could be two different things. And then clarifying questions, just asking them for clarifying questions if you're not clear on what feedback they're giving you. And then the P is for putting into practice what they actually give you as feedback.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:17:17]:
So taking a lap is what I teach my clients to do when they're getting that feedback and just kind of changing it from, oh, my gosh, I'm getting criticism, to I'm getting fuel to get better, because feedback is fuel. That's one of the mindset changes that we try to do when. When you're getting that critical. That critical feedback.

Tim Newman [00:17:42]:
Right. And that's so important to. To again, take a step back and truly absorb and think about what's actually being said. And again, that's not personal. It's done in an attempt to help you improve, help you get better. And it's coming from a person who has good intentions. That's the other piece that especially young people need to understand when they're getting that feedback. It's not coming from the point of trying to put you down because they're actually trying to help you improve and get better.

Tim Newman [00:18:23]:
And it's trying to get them to understand that I think is a critical piece from our perspective so that they can be open to that feedback.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:18:36]:
Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. One other thing that I think is really important is once you start doing that work on yourself, to be able to figure out how to self advocate is the next thing that I talk to my clients about is just crafting your script. Meaning, okay, now that you know about yourself and how you can help others, what are the words that you're going to be using? How are you actually going to phrase that so that it comes across as you're excited and passionate and you're vested in the success of the company. And so crafting your script is really important. When you are in, in that discovery period of like, you want to go talk to your boss about a promotion or whatever, you need to take the time to really write down and practice what you're going to say so that it comes across as positive and that you, again, it all goes to. You're trying to solve their problems.

Tim Newman [00:19:38]:
And I love this because you can't do this without research and preparation and putting the time and effort into doing these types of things. Because it doesn't just happen, right? You have to actually sit down and put some thought into it, do some research, practice how you're saying it, practice the terminology, practice the way that your tone, your facial expressions, your body language so that it comes off as natural and likable. Right? And to me, preparation is probably one of the biggest battles that we face to get people to, especially younger people, to improve upon. Because again, it doesn't just happen.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:20:22]:
Exactly. And so a few of my clients have come to me and they're like, rosie, can you help me gain confidence so that I can go out and self advocate for myself? Like, well, I can help you. I can teach you how to prepare yourself so that you can learn more about yourself. And it's a parallel process where the more you learn about yourself and you're able to share that with other people, the more confidence you gain because you now know what to say and how to present it and how you can help and you can highlight your skills and all of those things. So it's so interesting that, you know, in real estate they always say location, location, location. In career advancement, I'm always like, preparation, preparation, preparation.

Tim Newman [00:21:11]:
Hey. And I'm right there with you because it's so important and it's, it doesn't really matter to me, you know, what you're going into from a professional perspective, if you're going into a meeting and you're not even, you know, if you're not responsible for sharing anything, but you still need to prepare it so that you have an understanding of what's going to be talked about so that if something comes up that you can share about to add that value, you to do that because you're invited to that meeting for a reason. You're not invited because they needed somebody to sit in that chair, right? They. They want you there. They want that input there. And you can't get that input if you're not prepared. If you're presenting in the meeting, you have to prepare so that. So that you're presenting the information that needs to be presented.

Tim Newman [00:21:51]:
It doesn't really matter from my perspective, where you're at in that professional piece. You need to be prepared to communicate, share your voice, share your opinion. And it seems that, again, that's a big piece that needs to be communicated, but from a female perspective, how is that. Why do we think that. Why do you think that females undervalue their communication skills so much more than males do?

Rosie Zilinskas [00:22:25]:
Well, you know, I'm sure you've seen that cartoon where there's a male and a female, and they're looking in the mirror, and the guy is, like, bald and, like, a little short and pudgy, and their belly's out. And they look in the mirror, and they see this, like, beautiful, muscular man, you know, and they're just. They're just seeing themselves as this, like, Adonis. And then the woman is, you know, pretty svelte, and then she sees, like, this old person in. In the mirror, and she just doesn't see herself in a positive way. So a lot of this has to do with how we are just brought up as human beings where men are just inherently more. More confident than they just go for it. And I'm going to actually share with you a little story that will kind of exemplify this.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:23:15]:
My husband and I went to Montana last year to Glacier national park. And it was beautiful.

Tim Newman [00:23:21]:
It is.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:23:22]:
And we were driving, and he, like, we were driving away a distance, and he was really tired. I said, you know what? Let me take over for a couple hours. You can sleep while we drive, and, you know, we'll get there. So we did that. He, you know, we traded. He slept, and then I drove. And as. As I started driving, he fell asleep right away.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:23:40]:
As I started driving, I very quickly realized that it was very curvy. Curvy and hilly. And I was literally hugging, like, mountains. And I was white knuckling it the entire we're there. And it was only a couple of hours. I was going at the speed limit, and. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, and my daughter was in the Car.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:24:05]:
So I'm like, I cannot. I cannot have an accident, you know, so. Okay. So then I. We got there, we were safe. I was, like, stressed out the whole time. And then we got there, you know, we were like, eating or whatever, and I. And I asked my husband, I said, so, so are you ever worried when you drive on.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:24:25]:
On the roads? You know? And he's like, no. I was like, but do you ever, like, think about it? Or you're like, are you concerned about, like, the roads being all windy and curvy? And he's like, no. I'm like, so you have no. He's like, what are you talking about? And that is like, after I thought about that story. That's kind of the way men and women are in life and careers. Men don't even think. Think about it, Tim. Whereas sometimes we are literally white knuckling it and trying to figure out, oh, my God, am I going too fast, too slow, I'm going to, you know, hurt my.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:25:05]:
My family. You know, I need to be careful. And. And so women are inherently just more critical of themselves, and that's where the, The. The gap comes in. Because if we were able to understand ourselves more and learn about our emotions and be able to show how we give value instead of how we take value away, that's when the transformation happens. And then you're able to shed some of that lack of confidence, and then they can start speaking with confidence. Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:25:45]:
Yeah. And again, it's. I. I think to go along with that. The only way to gain confidence is to continue to do it. You can't just do it once. You've got to continue to do it, continue to put yourself out there, continue to share your thoughts and share your feelings on whatever it is. Even.

Tim Newman [00:26:04]:
Even you bringing that up to your husband probably cause a tab. Bit of anxiety, right? You know, what's he good? What's he going to. What do you mean? What do you mean you're not confident driving the car? Now I've got to worry about you driving the car, too, or whatever it is. Right? So that's part of putting yourself out there and learning how to share a thought, share a feeling, and be open to doing that. And I think that's, especially from a business perspective, that's hard for young professionals to just get over yet. You just have to do it.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:26:37]:
Yeah. And back to that same story. It's like just the reflection of. I was like, wow, he didn't. He doesn't even think about it. He just drives. And here I am all Stressed out about the same exact drive. And it's just how different, not just men and women are, but people, you know, everybody's different.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:26:58]:
But finding out. And I did some reflection work, I was like, okay, why was I stressed out? Well, it was a new place, very curvy, very hilly. It was kind of starting to get a little dark. So it was a combination of factors. But to your point, the next time I'm still going to drive and I'll get more. More and more comfortable as. As I do that more. But it takes time and it takes practice and.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:27:20]:
Exactly. In your career, it's going to take time for you to. To show up for yourself in a very confident way. And then you were talking about how you physically show up. Another way that I always talk to my clients is like that pesky handshake. It's like the handshake when you're in person and you shake someone's hand and you either give them, like the half fingers or the, you know, like your dead fish, you know, like handshake that is actually conveys a lack of confidence like that you don't want to shake someone's hand in a very comfortable and firm manner. Because when you're not confident enough to do that handshake, that says a lot about a person. Person.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:28:07]:
So practice, just a simple practice your handshake, and that will give you more confidence just by appearing more confident to the other person.

Tim Newman [00:28:16]:
That is absolutely. And. And like, like you said, what that does to you, you know, from the inside out, how, how much more confident you feel, you know, sticking your hand out, you know, shaking that hand. And, you know, for. For me. So this coming week, I'm going to an event that I hadn't been to before. It's a monthly event here where I live, and this is the first time I'm going to it. And as I was driving into work this morning, I told my wife, I said, we got to make sure we get the clothes back from the cleaners.

Tim Newman [00:28:51]:
She says, well, you're going to be hot. And I said, I don't really care because I've got to make sure. This is the first time I'm meeting these people. I've got to come looking professional and prepared. And, you know, if. If we get there and after a couple times, it's a little bit more relaxed, a little bit more, then I'll. I'll show up that way. But for me to feel confident, I need to make sure that I'm doing the things that I need to do for myself.

Tim Newman [00:29:17]:
To go and show up, to do the things that we need to get done. And she said, well, yeah, I guess you're right. I said, yeah, and if I'm hot, so what? It's from hot. If I'm sweating, that is what it is. But if I don't show up professionally, if I don't show up who I'm supposed to be, then it doesn't really matter. Why are we even going.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:29:38]:
Exactly. Yep. I agree. I mean, you know, presentation is everything, right? Especially. And, you know, it's so interesting because I don't know, Tim, if you've heard that sometimes, and this isn't. I read a couple of articles. Young people, like college graduates, are sometimes bringing their parents to job interviews.

Tim Newman [00:29:57]:
Yes.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:29:58]:
It's just like, wait, what? Or sometimes I've heard again, you know, I've read articles that they'll have a video interview and they refuse to turn their camera on. I'm like, what? Like, how is this possible? And it's that. That lack of confidence. And of course, like, the whole parent coming to someone's. Any parent coming to any interview, whether you're 16 or, you know, 20, whatever, that's just the parent over parenting, you know, so.

Tim Newman [00:30:30]:
Exactly right.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:30:31]:
But you. You have to let the person do what they need to do, and if they fail, that's okay because they're. They can try again until they are comfortable enough to, you know, get that. That job or whatever. But there's just so many things that young people are not allowed to do or able to do or encouraged to do. But, I mean, not turning on your video camera on an interview is. Is not right. You need to be present and you need to show up, as you were saying, in a professional manner.

Tim Newman [00:31:04]:
Right. It's. That. That's. That's not optional. That's. That's requirement number one. You got to show up.

Tim Newman [00:31:12]:
And you. I mean, it has to be you. It can't be your parents. It can't be this, that or the other thing. And, you know, it's funny that you say that, because I talk a lot about. And I may be the complete opposite end of that spectrum. When my kids were in elementary school, my oldest daughter came to me, was having a problem with a teacher, and I said, well, you need to go talk to your teacher about it. And she was looking for me to just solve the problem.

Tim Newman [00:31:34]:
I said, no, you need to go talk to the teacher. And if at the end of that, you still think you aren't being treated fairly, and I'm not saying you didn't get the answer you wanted. I'm talking about you weren't treated fairly, then I'll step in. And that taught them at that point that that goes back to the advocating for themselves and how you go about doing that. And to this day, my oldest daughter keeps. She reminds me of that all the time. And I said, and look how that's helped you throughout your life and throughout your career and look at some of your peers and how they have trouble doing those types of things. And.

Tim Newman [00:32:12]:
And so you may not have liked it. My wife hated it, because we're both educators. But in the long run, you showing up for yourself has done so much more for you than you could ever imagine.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:32:27]:
Yeah, no, that's great. And I love that you were able to just say to her, no, you go solve your problem. I mean, that's really good. That's how it should be, for sure.

Tim Newman [00:32:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. And so to kind of go along with that and showing up and confidence, you've got four promotion barriers that women have. What are they? And how do they play into the preparation of advancing their careers?

Rosie Zilinskas [00:32:56]:
Yeah. So there's four blockers that I talk to women about that they generally fall into. One of these blockers. The first one is the worthiness blocker, where they may be discounting defeating themselves or disqualifying themselves, where they just don't feel like they're going to, you know, be selected for their job for the job. So they don't apply or they just don't, you know, feel like they're worthy of that promotion. So it's the wordliness blocker. The second one is the popularity blocker, where you feel that you're just not part of the in creative crowd, the golden boy or girl crowd. And you're like, well, I'm never going to get the promotion because I'm not, you know, in that.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:33:44]:
In that crowd. Three is the skills blocker, where you feel that you need to constantly be upskilling or getting certifications or getting degrees. I talked to a woman that. She was like, on her third master's degree, and she. And I was like, what? What are you trying to prove? Yeah, like, what are you trying to prove? And then the last one is the visibility blocker, where they don't feel like they're ready to go out and do a presentation or be visible or ask or volunteer for a specific project where they just don't want to be out there in the world. So those are the four ways that a woman can actually, you know, hold herself back and Each one of these, you know, we have different exercises, you know that we do. But you know, the very first one, the, the worthiness blocker, that, that kind of goes back to what do you think about yourself? And discerning if it's true or if it's not true, if you think, oh, my man, I'm never going to get promoted. Well, why do you think that? And then you kind of have to start like, you know, peeling back the onion of like, where in your life did you maybe have a situation where you didn't feel.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:35:00]:
Feel that you were worthy? And you carry that throughout your life and it's still showing up. A lot of this is, is emotional situations that have happened and, and have triggered you so much that you still operate on that old belief. So the likability one is when you, you see all these people getting promoted and you're like, oh my gosh, they just give promotions to all these other people. But there was a study that I read about a law university, and the women were all complaining because the men were getting all the teaching assistant jobs in the law school. And then when they did some research, they figured out that all the men were asking for those teaching assistant jobs and the women were not asking for those jobs. So just because you see someone get promoted doesn't mean that they don't like you. It's that they asked, they took action. And then the skills blocker is kind of obvious.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:36:03]:
You know, you don't have to keep upskilling. You just have to, you know, refine your skills and have a conversation. And then the, the last one, which is the visibility blocker, you have to make a concerted effort to speak with confidence, right? Go out there, make presentations, maybe, you know, start some kind of thought leadership in your company. But these are all. These four blockers are what generally someone falls into one of these four categories and they're like, oh, yeah, that's the one that, that's holding me back.

Tim Newman [00:36:37]:
So, yeah, and that's identifying that is critical because now you can start to work on that. And then my guess is you find somebody. Okay, this is the one. You start addressing it. And then you see, okay, well, I'm also. Some of this. Now we can address some of that a little bit too. And we can address this one over here.

Tim Newman [00:36:54]:
And that's going to, you know, propel them so much further. Once you identify whatever that is, apply some corrective action to it, whatever, again, whatever that is, because again, it's different for everybody. And what, you know, what holds us back. And the story that we tell ourselves for whatever that is, is different, but we have. We still have to address it and figure out a way to move forward.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:37:16]:
That.

Tim Newman [00:37:17]:
And I think it's great that you've identified those categories because it makes it so much easier to. To identify and move forward.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:37:28]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. And once. And like you just said, like, once a woman knows that. You know what? I just realized that I am disqualifying myself because by not applying, I'm just assuming that I'm not going to get the job. Instead of, like, throwing my hat in the, you know, in the ring, then I just. I'm like, oh, I'm not going to get the job, so why bother? Well, then you're now moving from disqualifying yourself to in that defeatist mode where you're just like, both, why bother? You know, now you're not really engaged, so there's so many levels of knowing yourself. And then once you know, you're like, once you know, you can't unknow, and then if you don't take action, that's just because you don't want to take action, because that. That's a whole new ball of wax right there.

Tim Newman [00:38:13]:
And you know what? That. If you don't want to take action again, that, that's fine, but own that. Exactly. Don't continue to say this, that, or the other thing. Own that. You have that you are choosing to not take action on. Fix it, address it, whatever. Whatever that is.

Tim Newman [00:38:31]:
And that. You know what, what I found is when you address somebody like that and they know what's happening, and then you say, okay, if you're not going to act on it, at least acknowledge that and you're making that choice. And that a lot of times will trigger them and say, you know what? That doesn't make any sense. If I know that this is holding me back or I know that this is causing me harm or I know this is causing me problems or whatever that is, and I'm not gonna do anything about it, doesn't logically make any sense. And then that's something that does help propel them forward into fixing it or getting better. Whatever. Whatever it is.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:39:13]:
Yeah. And like you said, I love that you said, you know, then that's making a choice. And, you know, I. I started my career with people, you know, we started in the exact same class, and there's people that I know that are still doing the exact same job that we started doing back in 1992, and they are blissfully happy doing it. You know, they don't want to do anymore. And, you know, that's wonderful, right? For me, every three years, it was almost like clockwork. Okay, what's next? What's next? What's next? I was always looking. I'm still looking for, like, what's next? And how can I get better? And kind of like you that you're a lifelong learner.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:39:51]:
So am I. And I love learning, and I love understanding. And now I'm doing a lot of emotional work because it's so interesting. I'm not a therapist, but as a career coach, we do get a lot into. Well, so, like, for example, one of my clients said the other day to me, like, my little job. I'm like, okay, hold on.

Tim Newman [00:40:12]:
Stop that.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:40:13]:
Like, why did you say my little job? And she was like, what? What are you talking about? I was like, you. You just said my little job? And she's like, I didn't even realize. And then we had a whole conversation about where that thought was coming from and how she was feeling about it. And I think that's one thing that I really want to make sure that we talk about here, because everything that is happening in your life is being driven by an emotion. And a lot of times, like these four blockers, like, what's really underneath those blockers? Really, a lot of the times boils down to fear.

Tim Newman [00:40:51]:
Yes.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:40:52]:
What is the fear and why you have it? And then a lot of times we'll have a conversation like, how did you feel about that and what can we do about it? And then we start reframing that. But again, I'm not a therapist, but I have trained, like, training in the fact that everything, you know, has every action has some kind of feeling behind it, whether it's good or bad. Then if you are being paralyzed by, you know, the feeling, fear, then you're not going to identifying it as, you know, what. Oh, my gosh, I'm really disqualifying myself. And that's where the magic happens. It's. It's definitely your intellect, but it's also your emotional, like, what is happening in your. In your heart and your soul when it comes to this.

Tim Newman [00:41:43]:
Yeah, it's. You're. You're so right on to that. And again, I also think it's important that we as coaches acknowledge that. No, no, we're not therapists. And if this is something that you need therapy for, please go. Please, I'm begging you, go do that. And then we can help.

Tim Newman [00:42:02]:
You know, the therapist can help you there, but we can help you take that step forward.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:42:07]:
Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:42:08]:
And there have been a few times.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:42:09]:
That I'm like, you know what? You need to go to a therapist. I'll still work with you.

Tim Newman [00:42:14]:
But, you know, but that. Right. That's two different things. Right. And, and, you know, but it's important to know that sometimes those fears do require, you know, that deeper thing that we are not qualified for, qualified to help them fix. But we can still help them move forward as long as they're getting help with those other mental health issues that truly need to be addressed. And that's a different story. I think our mental health system needs some serious help too.

Tim Newman [00:42:47]:
But that's, that's over there. We'll talk about that later. And how does you've got your promotion readiness roadmap? How does that all play into these things? The promotion blockers and building confidence and the preparation. How does all this kind of wrap up and work together?

Rosie Zilinskas [00:43:09]:
Yeah. So the promotion readiness roadmap is a series of topics that we have. So yes, the Resume and the LinkedIn and things like that. So the promotion readiness roadmap is very tactical. So it's very getting the pieces of the puzzle in place so that when you are, when you are presented with an opportunity, you are at the ready and you, you don't have to be scrambling on, updating your resume and figuring out what to say in the interview. So it's the resume, the LinkedIn credit, crafting your script, creating your story vault, like, what are the stories that you're going to bring to that, to that interview and then pair it with crafting your script. It's creating your 90 day plan. All of those pieces are part of that promotion readiness roadmap.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:43:57]:
So it's very tactical now. Yes, I do. We definitely talk about, you know, how do you feel and all that stuff. But I also, I'm a certified high performance coach and that's the Mindset coach program where we talk all about what do you think about this? I. It's a series of questions that I ask and based on what the answer, I kind of know where to, where to take the conversation. And I'm always actively listening for kind of like that example, like my little job, like, okay, why did you say that? And that's where we get more into where is, where are you emotionally in that scale and how is that showing up? And then like, I was talking to one of my clients and she went through a situation where she got laid off like months and months ago. And we were talking about it and I had asked her, well, what's the emotion there? Because I don't ask, like, how does that make you feel? You know, because, like, the emotion there and then she's like, you know, I just realized that I felt humiliated, and she had not realized that that emotion was still kind of lingering there. And what's so interesting is that, Tim, once you identify the emotion and you allow yourself to feel, feel it, then you are able to release it, and then you can let it go and move on to other things.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:45:14]:
It's so incredible how things that happen in your life impact you emotionally so terribly that if you don't process that, then it can get stuck. And that's when disease comes into the body. I mean, it's all connected.

Tim Newman [00:45:30]:
It's all connected.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:45:31]:
Incredible.

Tim Newman [00:45:32]:
Yeah. And I wish people knew that before it's too late. And that is so, so important, you know, without getting in too much. It happened to me. It's happened to a ton of people that I know. And I'm not even talking about people from my generation, right, because it's very common in people from. From my age group, my generation. But it's also happening with people in younger generations, too, because for different reasons, holding that stress in not actually sharing, not letting it go, all those different things, and it does manifest itself into serious health issues.

Tim Newman [00:46:17]:
And if people understood that and could get the help or. Or get whatever it is that they need to let that go, it's incredibly freeing. And I say it's like a weight lifted off, but it's almost like you can't describe the weight that is lifted off of you when you can get through those types of things.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:46:42]:
I totally agree. And it is something that I've always. And I do a lot of meditation and stuff like that, and I'm like, man, I wish that we would, you know, kind of like finances. I wish this would be one thing that we taught all human beings. It's like you need to be able to learn to process emotions. And, you know, kind of bringing it back to the initial conversation of why women don't advocate for themselves is because sometimes we're just, like, processing all these emotions, and we're stuck, and we're stuck, and we don't have anybody to kind of help us process. And yet many men don't process the emotions. So they just kind of go forward and they're not stuck because maybe they don't even think about it or have that feeling.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:47:26]:
So we're still human beings, and we still have emotions, but we. We handle them very, very differently.

Tim Newman [00:47:32]:
Very differently. Very differently. Well, Rosie, this has been phenomenal. I've really enjoyed the conversation. Where can people find and connect with you?

Rosie Zilinskas [00:47:41]:
Yeah, the easiest way is go to my website, which is no woman left behind.com and woman is W o M. Or they can connect with me on LinkedIn at Rosie CareerCoaching or Rosie Zelenskas.

Tim Newman [00:47:55]:
Well, I appreciate that. And again, thank you so much for taking some time with us today. You take care and I'll talk to you soon.

Rosie Zilinskas [00:48:01]:
Thank you so much, Tim. This was wonderful.

Tim Newman [00:48:04]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Format for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change your world. We'll talk to you next time.