Stop Comparing, Start Thriving: Joanna Zhang on Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Finding Confidence

Tim Newman [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on a journey to becoming a powerful communicator. If you've ever looked confident on the outside, but felt like a complete imposter internally, this episode is going to hit home. Today's guest is Joanna Zhang. Joanna is an international speaker and an award-winning entrepreneur recognized with a Stevie International Business Award. As the founder of The Operations Genius, she created the world's first fractional VA service with a plug-and-play team model. Designed to free leaders from overwhelm.

Tim Newman [00:00:58]:
Through her Empower to Grow movement, Joanna is passionate about helping entrepreneurs discover their soul-aligned journey, embrace their authentic voice, and step fully into their genius with confidence. Joanna, welcome to Speaking with Confidence. I'm really looking forward to talking to you today.

Joanna Zhang [00:01:13]:
Thank you very much for having me, and we'll spend a great time together, I believe.

Tim Newman [00:01:18]:
Yes, we will. And, and before we get started, I, I need to let my listeners know that, uh, uh, congratulations is definitely in order. You know, your, your business Operations Genius, um, won the, the, uh, Company of the Year Award for the Best in Business Awards International. Is that right?

Joanna Zhang [00:01:35]:
Oh, this year? Yeah, that's this year. Yeah, we won that award. Thank you so much.

Tim Newman [00:01:40]:
Yeah, that, that's awesome. And that just means you're doing good stuff. So, you know, I'm, I'm happy that you guys are doing that and you're being recognized for for the hard work that you're doing, and especially in this space, because it's sometimes, you know, you may make it look easy, but it's not easy, especially overcoming some of the things that we're going to talk about today.

Joanna Zhang [00:02:00]:
Yeah, that's so true. But actually, when you're talking about it, you did mention about imposter syndrome, about look good outside, confident, and feel imposter inside. I personally totally went through that journey, even with awards. Like last year, we won the Stevie International Business Award. At that time, even my intention was like, I need to prove something, right? So I was in that state. But once I really got the award, I was a bit unbelievable, think, oh, is that it? Is that real? So I totally reflect about looking good outside, confident outside, but inside, I doubt about myself. But this year, when we won it, and I feel like it's not a certain, it feels like I feel grateful. And used to when people actually introduced me about all those titles, At the beginning, I went through a few stages of imposter, right? At the beginning, when people say about introductions, I'll feel like, oh my gosh, is that me really?

Tim Newman [00:02:53]:
Really?

Joanna Zhang [00:02:53]:
And then I went through, ah, whatever. But now I truly can feel my own transformation is when I hear those words that resonate with me, anchor with me, and so in the core with me. And that's who I am, what I did, and I celebrate myself, trusting my value, So the imposter syndrome is gone. So totally, I can feel my own journey of passing through those periods. But thanks for mentioning about this already.

Tim Newman [00:03:23]:
I really don't like hearing people say good things about me because it just makes me feel, you know, okay, I'm like, you just, just, okay, let's just move on. Let's, let's get to the, to whatever it is we're going to do. And, but I'm the exact same way, uh, you know. So, hey, you know, I had a, had a guest on Oh, a couple of weeks ago. And they said, well, I'm not going to give you a bio. You just make something up for yourself. I said, if you're sure you really want me to make something up for myself, I mean, for you, because I mean, I'll do that if you want. And then you make it even more embarrassing if you just give me something, the things that you want me to say, and we'll take care of it.

Tim Newman [00:03:58]:
You know, there's— I, you know, I think a lot of times, you know, we put so much emphasis on our work and we don't necessarily really want to be recognized for it, even though we are doing good work.. And I think it is a sign of growth for you and others to just accept it and embrace the good things that have come because of the good work that you do.

Joanna Zhang [00:04:20]:
Thank you. Thank you very much. Actually, talking about that, you know, I went through— once someone complimented me before, said, Joanna, you're great at this, did that. And then I used to be like, no, no, no, no, no, that's okay. It's really like a fake humble, you know, like I couldn't even accept the compliment, you know. But gradually I felt like when I actually practiced more and more the true confidence side, I found out that a true life lesson is about comparison part because I used to compare myself with others and particularly compare my weakness with others' strength. How ironic is that, right? So if I compare my weakness with others' strength, I forgot all my own strength. One day my spiritual mentor actually asked me, so so what is your strength? What is your goodness? You know, like, tell me.

Joanna Zhang [00:05:14]:
Suddenly everything comes to my mind was my weakness. I said, oh my gosh, I feel so weird. I didn't know this is all my weakness. And she said, right, because you're focusing on them. Right. And then I realized, yeah, and then I realized, oh my, because of those comparisons and because of my focus. And I started to really truly look within myself and to really embrace all the light and shadow and goodness, strength and weakness, whatever it is, I start to accept them as it is and I start to change, shift my mindset and focus into what I can do better. And for the weakness, I still accept them and then improve them according to my own pace, right? But I stop comparing that with others, especially with others' strength.

Joanna Zhang [00:05:56]:
And I found that actually gained a lot of strength and core confidence back to my true self and I start to believe my unique use, my unique value, as a self-value, uniqueness. Because I think I used to be in the doing model, like a do, do, do, like action, doing things. It seems like I need to prove something. And after I do that, I don't feel fulfilled because I feel like it's empty, that feeling. So literally, I look confident outside because I had so much external validation to make me look good. But inside, I was totally empty and lack of confidence. I was in that state, so I totally understand where you're coming from. But now, because after the practice of shift all the focus back to myself with the foundation of acceptance of all the aspects of myself, I start to trust myself totally now.

Joanna Zhang [00:06:49]:
So I can say I can be self-confident in a call and to deliver this kind of message with calm and joy and true confidence.

Tim Newman [00:06:59]:
Yeah. And how does that really kind of play into inner energy? You and I, when we spoke before, we talked a little bit about how sometimes your inner energy is how we show up, as opposed to adjusting that and coming with— instead of adjusting that and coming at it from a place of value and power and confidence.

Joanna Zhang [00:07:28]:
I know what you mean now. Yes, so that's so true because everything actually starts from inner that reflects outer. As I mentioned, I'm not afraid of public speaking. I used to be on the stage, perform, like singing, dancing. I love to share those energy on the stage. I'm just naturally very happy, and I think I had a lot of experience on the stage. So talking about public speaking, I'm not afraid to talk in front of people. However, at the time when I wasn't really confident, I still really care about whether I look professional, whether I look well, I can provide value.

Joanna Zhang [00:08:03]:
I'm concerned about a lot of things when I deliver a message. And on the stage, because I'm so good at acting, so I can wear on my mask and deliver those things and looking very confident. But I believe the energy can be different because the energy will pass to the audience. They can feel as well. It's kind of been like a limited shine, limited delivery. How do I put it this way? Because I wasn't confident enough, I didn't give myself love enough. So when I deliver, try all my best to look good outside, my inner is drained. So which means when I pass on this message and this energy is not like a limited, endless energetic field, right? So there is a limit.

Joanna Zhang [00:08:49]:
And once I finish, I feel drained and I need to recharge like that way. However, now because I reversed the sequence of really look after myself, love myself, respect myself, accept all aspects of myself, and build self-confidence. When I'm on the stage, I'm naturally just being myself. I don't need to try harder. I don't need to try anymore. I just be myself and naturally just glow and flow. And that energy is actually coming from the divine, is unlimited energy, and then people can feel it. It's more like it's amplified in a way without any effort.

Joanna Zhang [00:09:24]:
Yeah, I, I will put this way. So inner state is the engine and the true motivation of really sharing the message with the impact.

Tim Newman [00:09:36]:
Yes. So was there a moment, or was there a, a time when you realized that to, to, to make that switch? What was it? Was something happened, um, gradually, or was that, was that, was that kind of an aha moment? You said, wow, that's That's the shift that needs to be made.

Joanna Zhang [00:09:53]:
I have to say it's aha and a journey. Okay. Because I used to think I was confident because I look confident. I felt something not that right, but I thought I was confident. But I actually had a soul awakening 4 years ago. And when I had that event and my spiritual mentor said to me, Joanna, you're so harsh and crude for yourself. I said, what? I thought I love myself. You don't really believe in yourself.

Joanna Zhang [00:10:21]:
Oh, really? I couldn't even believe that because I somehow numb myself, make me believe that I'm confident, but actually inner, it's empty. It's not strong because all my attention is outer. I put so much attention to other people. I used to be people pleasing. I wanted to make other people happy. I wanted to provide to others. But at the end of the day, the only person I forgot is myself. So I put so much expectation, everything on myself.

Joanna Zhang [00:10:51]:
I forgot about this focus. So from then on, I feel like aha moment comes because I wasn't confident. I accepted, I recognized it, and I decided to face it. And how I do it is a journey. It's a part of the spiritual ascension journey that really truly started to love myself step by step. And it's not about the speaker. Put this way, we need a lot of skills, we need a lot of techniques and methods and strategies to deliver this talk, but the inner state is another thing that we shouldn't neglect because that's the powerhouse. That's where the true energy coming from, and plus all those techniques, we can really deliver the message out with this energy.

Joanna Zhang [00:11:36]:
Yeah, so I think that's both ways. It's aha and journey.

Tim Newman [00:11:39]:
Yeah, that's interesting. And I like the I like the way you explain it because, you know, I think there's sometimes— and I'm just kind of thinking about me as, for example, there's times when I definitely feel it, you know, and then there's times when I have to take a step back and get myself in that mindset to be able to feel it. So, you know, it's not something that is, you know, at least from my perspective, it's not something that you either— that you always have it or you don't always have it. It can kind of come and go, and you have to actually put yourself in that mindset and be in that mindset. And the more you do that, the much easier it is to get back into that.

Joanna Zhang [00:12:23]:
That's so true. That's all coming from self-awareness and to look after our own feelings. A lot of time, our brain can overtake the road and to really cover any feelings and the sense or message or guidance, whatever it is. So we tend to somehow go to a mode of like a machine, like you can't stop and doing things gradually lost the passion. I actually even see some speakers step on this journey and doing the talk just for the sake of doing the talk, and they gradually lose the spark because the thing exactly what you're saying is about that. So I truly hope that we constantly be aware of feelings and respect our own emotions and look after ourselves, give us a space. If we need to tune down, we tune down, we rest, we go with our cycle to recharge and reflect and just thrive. That's what they say.

Tim Newman [00:13:23]:
Yeah. That's really a great way to put it. You've got to, just like anything else, you got to step back, recycle, and recharge to be able to get back to where we want to be. Yeah. It's just natural. So the people that, you know, that may feel like they appear confident but don't actually feel confident, what are the signs that they should be looking for to, to recognize that and to start making some of these changes?

Joanna Zhang [00:13:53]:
That's really good questions, uh, because I personally experienced this, so I can share some of the feelings. Um, if when you finish something, we constantly feel like, especially the high achievers, like action takers, you know, like have goals and set up goals, and after achieving the goals, somehow feel like, oh, is that it?

Tim Newman [00:14:15]:
What's next?

Joanna Zhang [00:14:16]:
Yeah. I'm not like overall joyful or happy or enjoy those sort of things. Feel like kind of like empty. So that's resulting actually, we're constantly achieving something, looking really good outside and very confident, but internally feeling empty. Yeah. And there's something I gradually changed is about the gratitude side and the celebration side, because I used to feel like, oh, I achieved this, and there's nothing about it. It's just simple, easy, and feel nothing, you know. And sometimes if something comes too easy, it can feel that way as well because it's come too easy.

Joanna Zhang [00:14:58]:
So that's why I started to really gratitude and appreciate the challenges. Now, it doesn't mean that, come on, all the challenges, come on. I started to realize the reason behind it. A lot of time, it's all about during the process, what we grow out of it. And the result is just— and it's like a milestone for us to recognize, okay, so we've got this far, like that. But the main golden nuggets is always in the process. But often, if the high achiever, we actually only look at the results, of course, they feel like I forgot all the journey I've gone through. I forgot all the things, same as mentioned, I forgot all my strength.

Joanna Zhang [00:15:32]:
I only look at the weakness. What's next? What I can do better? I'm not enough. I need to do more, like that kind of feeling. So if we actually can recognize what I've actually done, regardless of the result, as far as during this process, we tried our best, we learned something, and there's something we can take away to be a better self or down the track and then utilize it. And that's about it. That's the meaningful value journey we've gone through. And after that, celebrate as well, because I used to not to celebrate. I don't have this feeling of celebrating.

Joanna Zhang [00:16:04]:
I'm so used to feel like nothing. So, but now every little thing, even just pat on my back and say, well done, Joanna, well done. Even the little thing started to really look after myself. I gradually feel like I can really celebrate any moment now. Now, even now, close to Christmas, I put on my nails as a Christmas theme. Oh, I love that. It's a little thing. It's a celebration.

Joanna Zhang [00:16:30]:
And because our life, we are a soul on this world, it's not just about work and achievement or those sort of things, outer. It's about how we feel, lead the life, and to really be it. I'm in the stage of radically changing from doing to being. It's an amazing feeling. It's a very I have to stop and slow down a lot more. However, if I used to, in my older states, if I was in that state, I will feel so anxious, you know, I feel like, oh, I need to do something to prove something. But now, even by being here and talk to the people aligned, you know, share the message and slow down with even with myself, mindfulness, you know, I feel so peaceful. And just believe in my value, my existence.

Joanna Zhang [00:17:22]:
I have a value. And that's where the true confidence comes from.

Tim Newman [00:17:28]:
Yes. So when did you notice that you really started to kind of celebrate those small wins? You know, going from the, from the, all right, achieve that, next, achieve that, next, check, check, check, check, check. When did you notice that you really started to slow down and celebrate those small wins? Because again, that You mentioned it's so important, and for a lot of people that's very, very hard to do because especially in society today, you either win or you lose, right? You win or you lose, and that's it. There's nothing in between. So when did you realize that you were actually starting to be able to do that?

Joanna Zhang [00:18:04]:
Wow, actually, win or lose, that's totally— you're spot on. And I have to say, actually, win or lose is even not matter now for me. I'm looking at it, the whole beautiful processes in between. The result is really something for us to learn. But anyway, I think when I actually, after the soul awakening, I have a lot of life lessons because I didn't look after myself. And the celebration is one of the lessons that I need to learn, that to really pat on my back. I did a lot, but I didn't recognize myself. So the confidence is not about what other people say.

Joanna Zhang [00:18:46]:
Is how we say how we feel about ourselves. Regardless how many people say you're so great, this and that, but if we don't feel it, it means nothing. It means nothing. But at the same time, if I truly believe that's meaning something for me, I'm happy, I'm grateful, I'm celebrating, that's better. What other people say, the bad words, negativity doesn't bother me anymore. So that's both ways. I think at the end of the day, it's all about how we're feeling about ourselves. So I started to realize that, and someone teach me some very simple technique about pat my back, just little things.

Joanna Zhang [00:19:20]:
Well done, Joanna. Well done. Just little thing. It doesn't have to be like a big event you throw out, always like spend a lot of money. It doesn't have to be that way. Celebration, there's no format. It's a state. It's an action of recognizing of ourselves and our value.

Joanna Zhang [00:19:37]:
And of course, my spiritual mentor have different ways, always remind me different lesson to celebrate. And even I created a happy fund, me fund. Like, you want to save money, you know, create a fund just for me called a happy fund. It's for something that when I want to celebrate, reward myself, I use that fund to do something I'm really happy about. So there's all little things we can actually utilize, but the most important thing is that we need to understand how important it is. It's not always about big events, throwing our money and a big budget and look good outside. It's just simple Action can change a lot.

Tim Newman [00:20:15]:
Yeah. Yeah, you're so right. You're so right on that. Let's talk about communication style a little bit. You know, for 3 years you worked in a male-dominated industry. And you, you mentioned that at one point you were operating in a very masculine communication style. What did that look like for you at the time?

Joanna Zhang [00:20:35]:
Oh, wow. Wow. I used to be very masculine. I didn't realize that since I was young, I already operated as masculine as default. But anyway, I believe many women probably the same, especially in the business field. When we actually working, we used to be a provider, be the action taker, be the achiever, and we wanted to do something. The masculine energy, it is like that. There's no right or wrong, good or bad.

Joanna Zhang [00:21:01]:
He's just talking about energy. So when I first start to work with my team, I'm like a title leader stage, which means I'm the founder, I'm the CEO, you got to listen to me. So my tone is more like, I need this, get done, no excuse. Even like that. Okay. And if something is not according to my expectation, why is that? How can that happen? It's more like a blame. It's more like the tone is kind of blame others. And then I realize why I actually have that feeling is because at the time I always blame myself.

Joanna Zhang [00:21:36]:
So I realized something, that if there's attitude we actually for others, it's actually always something towards ourselves. Because I didn't accept my true self, right? And this didn't really appreciate my value. So I always blame myself. Why did I make mistake? Why can't I do better? Why I'm not good enough? What I can do? So all those from lacking and fear, you know what I mean? Yeah. Because of the attitude, that's why I treat others like that. My spiritual mentor mentioned one thing to me I feel is so valuable. She said whatever we wanted to give out to others, we've got to give to ourselves first. Imagine if we don't have it for ourselves, we don't have a capacity for giving to others, forgiving it, right? Oh my, yeah, forgiveness, um, uh, confidence, a little bit of— sorry, oh yeah, confidence, forgiveness, trust.

Joanna Zhang [00:22:30]:
Tolerance and support, love, care, patience, all those sort of things. If we don't give to ourselves, how can you give to others? Imagine that. We don't even know how to do that, probably.

Tim Newman [00:22:42]:
Yeah, that's, that's such an interesting concept. I never thought of it that way, but, but you're absolutely right. You can't give away something that you don't have, right? You just—

Joanna Zhang [00:22:52]:
that's very simple.

Tim Newman [00:22:54]:
It is.

Joanna Zhang [00:22:55]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:22:57]:
And it's also funny how we make things more complicated than they need to be sometimes. And if you just look at the simple, just natural, simple thing, the answers are right there. It's interesting. When did you actually realize that you needed that feminine energy in your communication? And what did your team see in that shift in you?

Joanna Zhang [00:23:23]:
Right, I naturally actually evolved into a serving leader after the title leader stage because I had a lot of challenges by communicating with people that way. Some people can get upset and they finish work at 10 hours and a lot of drama is happening and I realized something I need to change within myself and I started to understand I need to support others, give them support other than just instructing them. So I went to the stage of, that stage, it was serving leader, started to give other people space and support. But however, by saying that, it wasn't really truly feminine as yet. I just feel like I need to make some change, flip through, you know, maybe this will look better. However, that way make me started to become people pleasing and people started to step on my boundary. Yeah. The true feminine energy is really after I had this soul ascension and after some life lessons actually I learned from my relationship because I used to be controlling freak as a masculine, then I gradually learned to be feminine, you know, like a supportive, understanding, and then but I allow others to step on my boundary and happening in my relationship as well.

Joanna Zhang [00:24:39]:
So I've learned that I need to really make some change again. And now with that, you see, life lessons actually reflecting all aspects of our life, it's not just in the work, in the individual area. So when I learned that, I gradually started to balance the compassion and the boundary, because especially when I love myself more and more, I just have a stronger boundary naturally. I used to, for example, with my kids, I can be very harsh on them, you know, like criticize them, and at the same time I spoil them. That's exactly like that. But now I can really see where they at, I can calmly deliver a message and be certain and assertive. So that's calmness and assertiveness is coming from the boundary, is very strong, and it just naturally happened after I started loving myself because I started to respect my own feeling. I won't tolerate others to step on it anymore.

Joanna Zhang [00:25:35]:
There's one sentence I really like, it says, we don't always get what we want, but we always get what we're tolerant for. So I learned a lesson, I started to make decisions to make changes. I now transformed into a spiritual leader stage, which is balancing the compassion and the boundary. By saying that, my feminine energy is gradually coming back in a way of being vulnerable, acceptance, and still go with the flow. So I truly believe, like, I understand what is feminine now. It's not just look feminine, it's energy-wise. It's not rushing out, but it's actually still stay and accept. So now that's why I can start to accept others' compliments now.

Joanna Zhang [00:26:20]:
I don't have to, ooh, like that. I accept. So it's truly, can see, you read the energy changes, so it's a balancing act.

Tim Newman [00:26:31]:
Yeah, it really is. And I don't know that we ever master communication or we ever become, you know, amazing communicators. It's, I think it's always kind of a work in progress. But if you can, can utilize both when, when it's appropriate and when it's needed and when it's going to provide the most value and those types of things, that's when you really start to become a truly great communicator. You know, knowing the situations and knowing the people and knowing the message and how to say it with the terminology to get it across.

Joanna Zhang [00:27:04]:
Yeah, that's so true. And also my inspiration on this perspective of communication is my spiritual mentor. I have to say, I come across— she speaks to many because we went through so many soul awakening events. We actually sit with the person who wants to do that as an audience and as a supporter, as a soul warrior. Every single soul is uniquely different, you know, you're not just talking about a mission, passion, purpose, uniquely designed, also their challenges, their stories, their journey, every single one are different, everyone's state are different. We can see our spiritual mentor can sense where they are and use the relevant skills and techniques to guide them through and then to help them. But I've learned something, is as a foundation, as a communicator, that we do need to truly understand and respect the other person's perspective. Yes.

Joanna Zhang [00:27:54]:
Because if we don't have that truly in us, it will be just a skill as manipulation. I put this way because our intention is not truly from care and love but manipulation. I just want to put it really right because I used to do my business as transactional, you know, I come from there, I was Like, I have a lot of skills, I can use that, but depends on intention. So if we truly have that with love and care and use the right technique, we can truly help a lot of people and ourselves as well, of course.

Tim Newman [00:28:28]:
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, getting the team to buy into the one vision, it's gonna be, it's gonna be good for everybody, it's gonna be good for the business, and the business is gonna grow. But it doesn't Like you said earlier, it doesn't necessarily have to be about business either. It could be in your personal life and your personal relationships, your friends, your family, and that's going to help those relationships grow as well.

Joanna Zhang [00:28:50]:
Oh, 100%. Everything is a relationship, even with the team members. And that's why nowadays I feel like a lot of business started to work with only purely with AI. I just feel like this trend, we should really embrace human AI together. AI, yes, there's no rejections, no emotions, we don't even need to care about our communication skills. But at the same token, like what you're saying, skills are important, right? If we neglect that part of the skills as well and really truly care about the other soul with respect and to learn the life lessons, we're missing out some growth opportunities, to be honest. It looks simple, easy, fast, but actually there will be some loss there as well, for sure. So I truly think there's a movement.

Joanna Zhang [00:29:32]:
Next movement I'm driving is to really embrace AI and human working together.

Tim Newman [00:29:37]:
You're so right. And you said something one time that you don't speak from the brain, you speak from the flow. How can someone invite more of that, you know, into their communications without feeling awkward or forced?

Joanna Zhang [00:29:56]:
There's two ways. I naturally, actually, when I was young, that was one of the natural ways actually I get a guidance from the divine, I'll put this way, or my source, because I'm very inspirational. I want to create something and something suddenly come up and I just follow that. I somehow become part of me as a habit. But by saying that, probably any of us may have different journey, but you can start to recognize some signs, probably some signs we neglect or reject for a long time. There's something like this sparkle, the kind of feeling, and the things that just spit out of mouth. You don't even know what, without thinking whether it's right or wrong, because literally there's no right or wrong, right? It's about everyone looking at a different perspective. If we can really recognize that and to really follow the guidance to say something to start with, that can be a good start.

Joanna Zhang [00:30:56]:
And of course, for reflect, if you go back to really listen to that, and if you feel like— I think not about judging self about that part. Let me put this, when I talk about right or wrong is because a lot of time we have a judgment, and judgment is coming from the judgment on ourselves. And I wanted to pull back to this again. If we truly started to love ourselves, accept all as ourselves, we will find out we have less, less judgment. I'll give you an example. I used to be angry with my older son, always angry with him. I didn't know why. And then later on I found, oh, there's something on him, it's my symptom, you know, it's the same pattern I show up on myself because I was so angry with myself.

Joanna Zhang [00:31:39]:
I didn't like myself, right? So I was angry at him instead. So since then I started, when I really truly practice self-love, you will find out your judgment will be less So if we recognize those signs, also have less and less judgment, we'll gradually go into the flow with the confidence to do more and more in the public.

Tim Newman [00:32:00]:
I love, I love how you put it, letting the judgment go. And that's, that's not, it's not easy to do. It's something you have to work on and you have to be it. You have to be willing to be coached to do that as well, because a lot of times, you know, at least for me, I don't realize that that's where it's coming from until somebody points it out, you know. And they say, yeah, you're right. And now you've got to come back and clean that. You got to clean that up on a number of different levels. So I understand, like you said, it's not always right or wrong.

Tim Newman [00:32:35]:
It just is. And be okay with that. And the whole idea of not necessarily speaking from the brain and trying to be perfect and trying to find the correct words and the right terminology and the right sentence structure and this, that, and the other thing. It's so much more freeing when you let some of that stuff go and just, you just let it go.

Joanna Zhang [00:32:56]:
That was so true. Actually, when you're talking about, I remember one simple exercise I did and it made me break through different stages as well because I used to think I used to need a script on the screen and then read it out., and I feel like I can't deliver some speech naturally. I wasn't like this before, to be honest with you, especially when I start my business and doing some social media. I need to make some videos, right? I need to write it down and script down and read it and with a screen, whatever, because I didn't believe I can deliver a smooth, fresh concept to the others. And then there was one day I was in the workshop and they had a task for every single one. They said, All right, now everybody pull up your phone just in front of yourself, do a 1-minute video and send to your public, like a social media right now. Everybody in this room will start to like each other. Because of the exercise, they're actually making me say, okay, so whatever, I just do it.

Joanna Zhang [00:33:52]:
So what? I did it and I put it on social media. It's all right, I can do it. A lot of time I feel like It's like fear is holding us back, or feeling so terrible. We don't feel like— but once we do it, a lot of time we'll find out, oh, is that it? It's not that hard, actually, right? It's just fear holding us back. Yeah, give it a try.

Tim Newman [00:34:15]:
Yeah, you may surprise yourself. And especially if it's something that you, you already know, you don't have to— it's not like you've got to do a whole bunch of research or, or take a whole lot of notes on, on on a 60-second, 90-second thing that you already know about. Just let it go, let it fly, you know, it's—

Joanna Zhang [00:34:34]:
it— you'll be fine. Yeah, and there will be an improvement and growth, of course, during this journey. Even myself, you know, I came from that state. I, I used to sing and dance, I used to be doing that. I didn't speak on the stage before, so for me, speaking in the public is still new. So I need to personally over overcome some barriers of myself, be on the public eye, stop judging myself, stop caring about what other people say, and a lot of inner work. It's a journey, but we got to start somewhere. Maybe audience, whomever is listening to this, think about something you're really afraid to do and have this strength and courage to really just fuck it, just do it, you know, just see what's happening.

Joanna Zhang [00:35:14]:
Exactly, just do it. You may surprise yourself, seriously.

Tim Newman [00:35:20]:
Exactly. And that really gets into, especially the younger generations, right? They're often— they're blocked internally, right? You know, so what would you say would be the biggest confidence wound you see the younger generation carrying around with them that's keeping them blocked?

Joanna Zhang [00:35:35]:
Everyone may have a different lesson, of course, but in this era, I think the social media and a lot of emphasis or the influence from external world that has a lot of different noise can mislead a young generation a lot. Because of that, what I want to feel like is that a lot of negative influence can actually guide them into a stage where they really focus on the alter thing. It's even stronger than before. So probably under this big circumstances from external, they feel they need to be up somewhere and look a certain way or be doing something, feel successful, good, or confident. That's external influence as a big environment. At the same token, probably from our parents, like the parent, the kids' parents' point of view, because we all have our own ones, our own life lessons, we didn't really grow out of it and we don't know how to love ourselves, a lot of us. So when we actually, even when my son, when they were young, before my soul awakening, I was like, oh, that kind of parent, like, oh, how to say, very critical on them, very strict and compare and, you know, like frustration, all those emotions. I had that as well.

Joanna Zhang [00:36:56]:
So if my children shows up some symptoms of losing the self-confidence, I totally understand. And part of the reason was me as well. And probably that could be part of their life lessons to experience and go through. However, the turnaround point can be every soul has our own free will, has our own decision, and that's what Divine Source actually gives us, is that regardless what we go through and what kind of environment, what kind of stage, or what kind of influence, at the end of the day, decision is ourselves. Whether we want to choose fear or desire, or whether we want to choose love and care, is ultimately our own choice. So I think at the same token, the source of divine, even everybody else, they still believe every single soul have their own right to make choice. And I just wholeheartedly hope everyone can start to love self more and more, start to look inner more and more, really choose love and care anymore. Because trust me, I've been to the fear and desire side, that's not fun.

Joanna Zhang [00:38:01]:
That's not beautiful, that's not fun, that's very painful, suffering. I've gone through that. I now appreciate that experience because if I didn't experience that, I wouldn't be able to be empathy on others if they're going through this. However, my case has told me I can make decisions, I can have courage, I can take actions to make changes, and life can be different. It can be. And that applies to every single one of us.

Tim Newman [00:38:26]:
And you said it, you have to take action. Nothing happens until you take action. You can think about it, you can talk about it, you can do all these other things, but nothing happens until you take action. That's something we talk about here all the time. You have to actually do something about it. Joanne, thank you so much for dropping some, some really good information, uh, this afternoon. Where's the best place for people to connect with you?

Joanna Zhang [00:38:51]:
Right, I think the best way to find me is on LinkedIn, uh, so if you put my name Joanne Zhang, you can see my I show up. If there are many of me, just put operations beside me, I believe I'll show up. So I love to connect with as many as of you and just as a connection and collaboration, and we can start from there.

Tim Newman [00:39:09]:
Thank you so much. I'll put those, those links in the show notes so everybody has them, and that way we get you to the right person. Uh, thank you. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I really do appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free ebook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the 4 Minutes for Public Speaking course.

Tim Newman [00:39:34]:
Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We'll talk to you next time. Take care.