The Hidden System Behind Confident Communication and Leadership Growth

Most people see the speaker on stage. Very few understand the system behind the message. Today's guest is one of the people building that system at the highest level. Welcome back to Speaking With Confidence, the podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is Jared Cagle. Jared is the executive Vice President of content at Maxwell Leadership.

Tim Newman [00:00:47]:
In this role, he oversees the development of intellectual property, leads the publishing company and and directs talent strategy for the organization's communicators and thought leaders. His leadership ensures Maxwell Leadership continues to expand its global influence while equipping leaders at every level to create lasting impact. Jared, welcome to Speaking With Confidence.

Jared Cagle [00:01:08]:
I'm honored to be here, Tim. We've been talking about doing this for a while, and I'm glad that we made it happen. So many connections and anyway, excited to. To serve you in the audience today with whatever we can do.

Tim Newman [00:01:22]:
Well, you know, I'm just as excited as you are, and I know we saw each other, you know, last week at imc. And before we really get into what I want to talk about today, let's talk briefly about International Maxwell Conference and what were some of your highlights? Because you experience things differently than I do, than most people there. So what were some of the highlights for you?

Jared Cagle [00:01:46]:
Oh, for sure. Well, it's one of my favorite things we do. We do it twice a year. This was our first time doing it in Dallas, Texas, and it was great to see you and so many others. My responsibility is anything that comes from the stage. It falls under my purview and making sure the speakers are prepared, making sure that they're on point with what we're trying to accomplish. And then I get the opportunity to speak some as well and host some environments and give some keynotes. So I'm.

Jared Cagle [00:02:17]:
My mind is all over the place on an IMC week, but it's always fun. My goodness. I think my biggest takeaway consistently is what a strong community that we have that we get to be a part of, and the conversations in the hallway, the connections that we get to make. The content's great. Obviously, I care deeply about the content. That's my job. But the community and the connections are really what makes the. Makes it special.

Tim Newman [00:02:47]:
Yeah, I. I have to agree with you there. We're going to talk a lot about connect, connections and community here. But I got to tell you, you do a phenomenal job of putting the talent on the stage to deliver incredible information. And I, I got to tell you two, that really stood out for me. Neil Hobson is, oh my goodness, great. He blew me away. And I'm not just talking about from the MC piece.

Tim Newman [00:03:18]:
He did his keynote and I've got to get him on the show. I've got to talk to him because he delivered such a powerful message that I think our younger generation truly needs to hear. And he looks like he's 12 to me, but he's a seasoned veteran. His message blew me away. Really did.

Jared Cagle [00:03:39]:
I love to hear it. I can't wait to tell him. Yeah. Neil's been with us for a long time and a product of the product, as we say. But not only sharp dressed, he's super talented as well. Oh my God, I'm so glad to hear. He did great. That was his first time giving an actual keynote at an event.

Jared Cagle [00:03:56]:
So that's great to hear.

Tim Newman [00:03:57]:
I would say he's a natural, but we know there are no naturals. There's a lot of work that goes into that.

Jared Cagle [00:04:02]:
Sure.

Tim Newman [00:04:03]:
And the other one. And we've had Tim on the show, Tim Elmore and that whole panel. Every time I hear Tim speak and he gives more information, it does two things for me. It makes me worry about our future, but it also uplifts me because there's people like him out there doing such good work and trying to bridge those gaps. And part of that is what we're going to get into is the whole idea of connecting and communicating. Right. Because right now the Gen Z and the older generations, which includes me, not you, but me, we're kind of like oil and water. We don't really mix, but talk a little bit about connecting with people and help people realize what a small world it is and how people are connected on so many different levels and how important those connections are to building leadership and building influence.

Jared Cagle [00:05:09]:
Yeah, this is a huge lesson that I feel like I've learned. Not intentionally. I feel like it's been almost thrust upon me for most of my life. The first thing that comes to mind is my grandfather. My grandfather passed away two years ago in June and he was one of my heroes. And we got to, I got to preach his funeral and it was a special, you know, special season to remember his life. One of the things that he always did and taught by action was being truly more interested in the other person than trying to make yourself appear interesting. And John Maxwell Teaches that.

Jared Cagle [00:05:59]:
Obviously, that's a principle that we subscribe to, but from a very early age, I remember being on the golf course with Pop, you know, and he's walking around and there's nobody there. He wasn't the most charismatic, he wasn't the most well spoken. He was a little bit nervous around people, but. But that didn't matter. He was the ultimate connector because he always found something, a thread in the conversation that the other person was interested in, and he would pull on that thread. And so I always try to do that. That was one big lesson early on. Another big lesson is I've been obviously, what an opportunity to be close to John Maxwell for now 12 years.

Jared Cagle [00:06:39]:
And I've been to countless events with him, and every single time it blows me away. No matter how busy he is, no matter how larger than life he is and appears to be, he makes the person right in front of him feel like the most important and the biggest person in not only the room, but the world. He's locked into that person, that individual. And I think if we do those two things, if we're truly more interested in the other person than we are trying to be interesting and, and if we genuinely make the person right across from us the most important priority and make them feel like the biggest person in the room to us, not many things connect better than those two things. And so I've been able to watch that, observe that, practice that as well. And we think that as speakers or communicators, that it starts when you get up on stage. It starts way before you get up on stage.

Tim Newman [00:07:39]:
Yeah, you're so right. It's way before. And it starts way before you, even before you even pitch something, because. And again, we'll talk about this. You've got to have a message that is going to resonate with people. You have to have something to say and be able to articulate that. And you said something that invoked an emotion for me, playing golf with your grandfather. And to me, I've got such fond memories of not playing with your grandfather, but playing with my, my dad, my grandfather.

Tim Newman [00:08:15]:
And, you know, my one wish, because both my, my grandfather, my father have passed, is wish I could have one more round. You know?

Jared Cagle [00:08:27]:
Yeah, we.

Tim Newman [00:08:29]:
I think we. And. And again, I didn't want to go here, but, you know, in one of your Instagram videos, you talk about. What's that one conversation you should have had? Yeah, we should have. I didn't have it. I didn't have it. Have the conversation. Yeah, because you'll, you will Regret that for your entire life.

Tim Newman [00:08:50]:
Now, Jared, I don't go down that road. But if you do, we can, but I'd rather talk about more happy things, if that's all right.

Jared Cagle [00:08:57]:
Well, you're, You're, you're, you're leading the show to. But, you know, it's. We cannot miss the moments. We cannot overestimate the moments that we have, especially with those closest to us. I've been doing this thing lately that. And we can get to the happy stuff, but let me just. I'll land the plane on the deep stuff maybe, and then you could take us out of the happy stuff. I.

Jared Cagle [00:09:23]:
I've been doing this thing lately where I call it living eulogies. You know, like I, I want to tell them before they're gone. And what would it look like if just constantly we're having these conversations, we're taking advantage of the moments we have? You never know. I've lost a lot of people in the last couple of years. The last really five years. I've lost a lot of people. And so it's changing my perspective on moments. It's one thing to say, maximize moments.

Jared Cagle [00:09:53]:
It's another thing to say, you know what? It's awkward to say these things that, that are deep in me. It's awkward to cry. It's. It's hard to go there. But I'm, I'm not, I'm not gonna miss this opportunity to tell somebody what they mean to me. And you never know when it's going to turn their day around or even their life around. So. I'm glad you said that.

Jared Cagle [00:10:15]:
I'm passionate about maximizing those chances that we have to impact people. The seeds we sow are far more impactful than we realize. John says, I want my success to be measured by the seeds I sow, not the harvest I reap. It's easier to celebrate the harvest, but if I can be truly so excited about the sowing process that that's the measure of my success, then I think we're going to do a lot more harvesting than, you know, by. By default or by consequence that we didn't have to force.

Tim Newman [00:10:56]:
Absolutely. And it goes back to the whole idea of the Maxwell DNA where people value. Value people exactly. Who, who had value to others and, and by sharing, by sharing our thoughts and feelings with people, especially who we, who we care about. That. That's the essence of it. Right. You know?

Jared Cagle [00:11:15]:
Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:11:17]:
Now, you're a young guy, talk about your career progression to get to the level that you're at. I mean, you're in charge of content for the organization with the number one leadership expert who's putting out more leadership content than anybody else in the world. How'd that happen?

Jared Cagle [00:11:44]:
How long we got? Yeah, it's Tim. I was, I was working for an athletic department, Georgia State University. We were living in Buckhead, Atlanta, which is a more expensive part of town, and just got married, making $25,000 a year at a, you know, at a mid major. Wanted to be an ad, got my masters, was kind of cruising, but just had to make a decision. Like what? You know, what, where are we going from here? How am I going to provide for my family? And an opportunity came up just as a temporary salesperson. Can you come and make cold calls? Cold calls are one thing. When you have to go hunt your own list for the cold call, that's a whole nother thing. So, you know, I'm making 50 dials a day and just making up my own list, trying to call these people to get them at.

Jared Cagle [00:12:41]:
At events for Maxwell. And I knew John, I knew a couple of his books, but I hadn't experienced him at an event or in person until I took this position. And there was a couple of moments where he walked through in the office. And I'll never forget just kind of how he zoned in on me and took a second, asked some questions, genuinely remembered my name and my story. And not only that, but also the rest of the team and how they treated each other, how they, you know, their passion for life. And so I just, I told them, you know, if there's ever anything here full time, I'd love to take it. Four months later, they offer me a position in the warehouse. Just operations, you know, logistics coordinator.

Jared Cagle [00:13:28]:
I took it. I wanted, Remember, I wanted to be an ad. I had a passion for writing. Operations coordinator in a warehouse is not the path. But I said yes to that because it got me closer to an environment and a culture and a leader that I wanted to learn from. Four months later, the graphic designer left. And I'm 20, whatever, mid-20s. And they're like, hey, you look young enough to figure out how to design things.

Jared Cagle [00:14:00]:
And the MacBook over there needs some loving. And so I went, started figuring it out. Then the marketing director left, and we don't have anybody to put together all of our mailers and all of our annual reports. And I learned how to design and print and then ultimately build lists and deliver and started to think through things from a marketing lens because we had a vacancy. And then, funny enough, the events person kind of moved over. And so they said, hey, can you handle this event and this event operationally? And then that ended up putting me in front of John in some different ways. And. And then there's a social media thing.

Jared Cagle [00:14:40]:
And believe it or not, I'll give you the Cliff Notes. There's. There's an Instagram account that we had, John C. Maxwell, nobody's posting on, had 200,000 followers at the time, but we'd never posted. They're like, Jared, you're young, you figuring out how to design. You want to start posting on Instagram? I said yes. So this is like five or six yeses in that. I didn't premeditate, probably wouldn't have chosen, to be honest.

Jared Cagle [00:15:04]:
I still didn't know what was going to happen. I just knew I was in a place where I could learn around people that I wanted to be around and want to learn from. And just saying yes, just taking those steps. About six months into posting, we had grown the account couple hundred thousand more. It was close to 400,000 at the time. And Mark Cole, our CEO, reached out and said to my director and said, who's been posting on this account? They're like, what's, you know, tell me the story. And they said, well, Jared's been doing it. And so they called me in the office, said, why didn't you tell us that you could write? I said, well, everybody here wants to write.

Jared Cagle [00:15:41]:
Everybody here is telling you they can write. I wasn't going to be in the middle of that pile telling you that I could do something. Everybody else is telling you I was waiting for my opportunity to prove it to you. You know, like, he's like, is that what you've wanted the whole time? I said, absolutely, it's what I've wanted the whole time. But I. Everybody else is wanting the same thing. John talks about how do you get out of the people pile? Right? For me, it was yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Available, available, willing, serving, whatever, getting your hands dirty, delivery, whatever, just.

Jared Cagle [00:16:12]:
And adding value. And adding value. If you add value, My dad always said if you, if you find a way to add value, there's always going to be a job for you. And so there's a humility that goes before that that you have to learn. I had to learn the hard way. But there's also a. Like, figure out how to add value, deliver, and over time that work is going to show up. And so anyway, fast forward, that's how they found out that they wanted me to be a part of content and writing.

Jared Cagle [00:16:42]:
And a part of John's writing team now for six years and working on books and keynotes and just pinching myself the whole way. Um, so that's a little bit of

Tim Newman [00:16:53]:
my story, you know, and it's, there's so many lessons there for, especially for, for younger people that you have to be willing to, to say yes, you have to be willing to do the work and deliver and add value. And like you said, don't, don't do it the same way that everybody else is doing it because you're just going to blend in. But you have to be willing to do the work. It's not just going to be handed to you. So you get invited into, into the room. Everything is, quote the room. And you're sitting around the table and I think this, this is so important. You know, you, you've heard the stories, you get one opportunity, you're invited into the room.

Tim Newman [00:17:39]:
If you don't come strong and bring value and add value, you don't get a second chance. So walk, walk us through your first time in the room and your thoughts, your feelings, your emotions and what that's like. Because I mean these, these people are, are the best of the best in the world at, at what they do.

Jared Cagle [00:18:01]:
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I, I'm well aware I'm, I still don't belong, my friend. I'm just like, what are we doing? But in 2021, the first time I was in a book writing team meeting, we were revising the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership, which I think is hilarious. The fact that John is revising the biggest and best leadership book of all time and irrefutable is literally in the title. But he subscribes to and believes that you can always make the thing better. No matter there is no finish line you can always make better. And so I'm sitting in this room, 2021 and I've been a part of conversations leading up to this, but this is the first one where it was really about a book and a big project.

Jared Cagle [00:18:54]:
The Harper Collins is in the room, the book agents in the room. We had a couple other high level thinkers in there. There's about nine or 10 of us in the room room and I am youngest by a mile and also obviously least experienced. And there was one point where I, it took me a while, but there was one point where I spoke up and I questioned the way that we were saying a thing and it was actually a title of one of the sections and I was questioning whether or not it was the best way to say it. And then I gave them an alternative. I gave them another way of saying it. And for me, it was. I was way out on the limb.

Jared Cagle [00:19:37]:
Like, here you are suggesting to the number one leadership author of all time that his number one selling leadership book of all time needs to be reworded. It needs to be reworded. And there was a silence in there. I'll never forget. It was a silence in the room. I've got the recording, actually, of the meeting. I keep it in a file. But there was a silence in the room after I said that for about 5, 8 seconds, which felt like an eternity in the moment.

Jared Cagle [00:20:07]:
And then, and then John was the first to speak up and he said, jared, I think that's a really great thought. And then we moved on to the next thing. But that's like, in that eight seconds, I was like, I'm in the balance right now. I could never be invited back.

Tim Newman [00:20:24]:
Right.

Jared Cagle [00:20:25]:
Or I could have proven that there's something in here that's worthwhile. And let me tell you, he's, he is the very best at that I've ever experienced at forcing almost you to get out of your comfort zone. Speak up. You know, best idea wins. Just put it on the wall. We, we can't make it better if you don't put it on the wall. Put it on the table for us to consider. And if you're not willing to do that, actually, that's the, the quickest way to get removed from the room is not to say something stupid, is to sit there with your mouth closed.

Jared Cagle [00:20:58]:
That's the truth. And John's very good at encouraging and empowering that. And so anyway, that was my first kind of on the limb experience. I've learned a lot since then, for sure.

Tim Newman [00:21:09]:
And so what's the lesson for the younger generations here? It's, you're hired for a reason. You get hired for any job. They don't hire you to, to make fun of you. They don't hire you to criticize you. They don't hire you to do anything because they've hired you for a reason.

Jared Cagle [00:21:26]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:21:28]:
Bring that reason. Bring the value. Don't sit on your hands. And it doesn't matter what room you're in. It doesn't matter what, what your job title is.

Jared Cagle [00:21:37]:
Yep.

Tim Newman [00:21:38]:
You know, do, do you do do the things that you, that you need to do to add that value because you're there for a reason. They don't hire people just to fill a role.

Jared Cagle [00:21:47]:
And, and, and one thing you just said about it doesn't matter what your job title is. That's a big one. Tim. I. I think a lot of. Or I'll speak for myself. In my career, there's been many times where I've waited to add the val. Like, I saw a gap, and I knew that I could present a solution to fill that gap, but I thought, that's not really my job or that's not really my place.

Jared Cagle [00:22:13]:
And what I've learned over time is, you're right, they have hired you for a reason. And most really the best leaders. They're not concerned if it's your job or not. They're concerned about getting it done and getting it done well. And if you see a gap and you have a possible solution for that gap, speak up, step up, speak in. You know, no matter what your title is, you know, let your gifts and strengths show for the benefit of the organization. I've learned that the hard way, for sure.

Tim Newman [00:22:52]:
Well, you know, that's the other piece that I think John does really well. And he just. 92nd book just came out. He's working on two more.

Jared Cagle [00:23:02]:
Yeah, yeah.

Tim Newman [00:23:04]:
I spent 90% of my life shaking my head. It. It's like insane. It's. It's insane. And this book was his own failure. And the way that John approaches failure is. It's.

Tim Newman [00:23:16]:
It's genius. And it just gives you the opportunity for a second chance.

Jared Cagle [00:23:22]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:23:23]:
We can't let failure stop. And so we're not always going to have the best ideas. We're not always going to win. We're not always going to get the job. We're not always going to be number one.

Jared Cagle [00:23:32]:
Right.

Tim Newman [00:23:32]:
We may not even be number two. But. But, you know, it gives us an opportunity to continue to learn and grow from whatever that is, for sure.

Jared Cagle [00:23:42]:
One time we were driving, so I was driving John to an event which is already a very intense environment, because when you're driving, John, you got to go fast and you got to be on time. And so I'm driving, and I'm also trying to maximize the mentoring. Right. So I got questions for him, and I'm asking him questions, and I'm driving, and I'm going to a place where I've never been, and it's dark, and it's kind of in the suburban area of Alabama. And so all this is happening, and I look at my map and realize that it's trying to reroute me, but it's not working. And I'm like, I think that we missed the turn, but I'm not going to say it out loud because I don't want to. Long story short, we end up eight miles down the road the wrong way, and he's still talking because I've asked him a question, and he gets done with his question. And I knew I had to tell him before I turned around, like, we're going the wrong way.

Jared Cagle [00:24:36]:
I said, john, I'm so sorry. I think I missed a turn. And he said, what are you sorry for? I said, well, I'm sorry because we're about to be late. And he said, the only reason you'd need to be sorry is if you weren't going anywhere. And I said, well, what do you. Well, what do you mean? And he's like, the most important thing right now is that we're going somewhere, and we're going somewhere fast. You don't. Don't get lost in the exact right way to get where you're trying to go.

Jared Cagle [00:25:07]:
Let's go. You know, don't wait. And this is huge for me because I overanalyze and try to make it perfect before I start. John's taught me, hit the gas. We'll figure it out as we go. And resources will flow to you as you're moving, and you'll get ideas, you'll get inspiration, you'll get motivation, you'll get partnership. These things happen with momentum. The ship can turn when we're moving, and we have momentum.

Jared Cagle [00:25:37]:
The ship can't turn when it's sitting still. So, you know, that's one example I tell sometimes of, like, yeah, he. He's. Well, one, he's always looking for a way to teach a lesson, Tim. You know that. And. And two, just start moving. Get.

Jared Cagle [00:25:50]:
Get moving. It's better to go somewhere than even if it's the wrong way or than to not move at all.

Tim Newman [00:25:57]:
Yeah, I probably would have ran into a tree if you said that to me, because, I mean, it's so powerful but also so simple, right?

Jared Cagle [00:26:07]:
Oh, yeah, 100%.

Tim Newman [00:26:09]:
And that's a lot of the things that John says are powerful and simple at the same time, because anybody can. He distills it down so anybody can understand it doesn't matter. Your age, doesn't matter. Your education level, your whatever. It's so simple that everybody can understand it and do it for sure. Let's talk about the communication process. And one of the things that I've seen happen over the course of my career as an educator is students don't like to read. And it's gotten worse.

Tim Newman [00:26:51]:
And, you know, a lot of my colleagues and this is what frustrates me. They throw their hands up in the air and says, I don't know what to do. They're not reading. They're not reading. Well, throwing your hands up in the air is not a way forward.

Jared Cagle [00:27:03]:
Right.

Tim Newman [00:27:03]:
Got to figure out a way to get them to understand the importance of reading. So talk to me about how reading affects writing and speaking.

Jared Cagle [00:27:14]:
I think sometimes we expect good ideas to just kind of fall out of the sky. I think that because of how readily available information is today, the next generation has almost been conditioned to believe that it comes much easier or much quicker than it actually does. From my experience, and I've worked with a lot of authors, I've worked with a lot of speakers. John Maxwell is at the top of that list. Ideas, thoughts, perspectives, quotes. Anything that shapes the life of another doesn't just fall out of the sky. It's not a let me go get in nature and in the wilderness and kind of sit there and wait for something to like. It comes from digging.

Jared Cagle [00:28:06]:
And to me, it's the analogy of digging a well. You have to dig a well for there to be water that comes up, you know, and that's a daily effort. That's what I've. That's what I've learned from John and others. You. What's your daily dig like? How are you digging that well on a daily basis? And if you're not reading and. And you're trying to be a writer or you're trying to be a communicator, you're trying to be somebody who influences lives in a positive way, but you're not reading. You want your words to shape people, but you're not digging the well and reading words that have shaped people.

Jared Cagle [00:28:48]:
And that's shaping you. You can't go somewhere. This is an interesting thing for me. I have people all the time. They want to be an author, but they don't read well. You can't lead somebody somewhere where you haven't been. You can't. That's a hope and a prayer, right? Like, you wouldn't become a lawyer without first passing the bar exam and doing the work to understand what it is that you're about to do.

Jared Cagle [00:29:17]:
You wouldn't become a plumber without doing the work of understanding how pipes work and how toilets work and how to install them. Like, go down the list. I didn't become a golfer in college because I just decided that one day I wanted to start trying. It was 20 years of work that led up to that. So there's ample Examples we can tell. I love words. I love communication. I'm so passionate about what you're passionate about here, Tim, and helping especially the next generation, use their words for good, speak with confidence, deliver messages that make an impact.

Jared Cagle [00:29:58]:
But to think that we can do that without digging the well first, for one, it's a little bit arrogant, but it's also just, it's incomplete. You know, it's incomplete. It's not going to be as good as it could have been. So, you know, audiobooks are great. Like, listen to it. If you can't read, if you don't want to read it, there's other alternatives. There's plenty of ways to kind of get information. But I, I would just say the temptation in this generation is to get on social media and watch 45 seconds.

Jared Cagle [00:30:36]:
I feel like we're missing out on a lot, a lot of gold. If that's the, that, if that's the extent of our input or our digging, if that makes sense.

Tim Newman [00:30:48]:
Yeah. I mean, even, even. Let's just say you, you, you go on pick, pick, pick a social media site and, and you read a paragraph of something. All they've done is they, they've taken all the information and distilled it down to a general paragraph. So you, you don't have, you don't have the depth of knowledge, you don't have the nuance, you don't have any of the real detail that you would need to be able to truly be able to process it. And then you take that and you form an opinion based on two, three sentence, maybe four sentences, and then you move on to the next thing. It's. I think that's, it's good for quick information, but to build a knowledge base, to build skills, it's just not the, it's not the way to go.

Jared Cagle [00:31:31]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:31:32]:
And, you know, I look back through history when we went from the printing press to magazines, and then radio came online, then TV and then color tv, and then when the USA Today came out, it was the first newspaper that was in color, shorter articles. And that's really when our attention span with reading really started to go away.

Jared Cagle [00:32:02]:
Interesting. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:32:05]:
And now newspapers are almost defunct and we get all of our information, all of our news, all of our basic everyday stuff through our phone. Right. And most of the time we can't even have a conversation without having our phone in our hand.

Jared Cagle [00:32:24]:
Right.

Tim Newman [00:32:25]:
Yeah.

Jared Cagle [00:32:26]:
Yeah. And it doesn't. Reading is a muscle. Right? It doesn't. You can't expect for that to be developed in, you know, one. A new Year's resolution. Like next year, I'm going to read four hours a day. You know, if you go from zero to four, it's not going to happen.

Jared Cagle [00:32:44]:
You, you develop this over time. You talk about the historical, you know, landscape. And I just, Even not too long ago, I think about when I was growing up watching my dad every morning reading the newspaper, and he spent, you know, the first 30, 45 minutes of his day at the breakfast table reading. And it. That's kind of a lost, a lost practice and therefore a lost muscle. We are moving so visual and moving to video, video, video, and quicker videos, quicker videos. As a society, I just would encourage people, if you're trying to be the one that's making those videos or making those messages, you got to dig the well. And to dig the well, you got to, you got to flex that muscle and on a, on a daily basis, you know, because you don't fall in love with, with reading overnight.

Jared Cagle [00:33:42]:
It's. It's a muscle that you have to. That you have to practice with.

Tim Newman [00:33:46]:
So with that being said, let me, let me ask you this question. What would you say to this statement? There's a difference between having a message and building a message that lasts, and that's really what you do. So what does that actually mean for you?

Jared Cagle [00:34:03]:
Well, I think the only way a message lasts is if the market demands for it more and more. In other words, if a message is going to last, it's going to have to be passed along and shared. That's the beauty of books. We're still publishing books because they're still being passed along. And so we don't. I'm on the front end of trying to help authors see what message is going to stick to. And I'd like to think I've got a pretty good idea of what messages are gonna stick. But at the end of the day, we don't know until the market demands it.

Jared Cagle [00:34:40]:
So we have to test it. We have to put it out there. We have to see what people are saying. John Maxwell constantly is on stages testing content before we publish the content, because he's trying to see what's gonna stick before it actually is put out there. So when we think about what message is going to last, it's determined by what the people are demanding. And the work for us is how quickly can we test an idea or a piece of content to real people and then get real feedback on whether or not it actually made a difference in their lives. That's the constant work for me as a content creator. A publisher, a coach of authors.

Jared Cagle [00:35:26]:
Okay, what's the quickest and easiest way to deliver and test ideas to the market so that we can get that feedback and then shape it and tweak it and then eventually present it in another form? Because the work is. How do we get it in a. In a form that's going to be passed along and it ultimately is going to last. Now, all that being said, don't miss this point. It's got to actually make a difference for somebody. It's got to actually help somebody. Right. And so a lot of times I'm working with people who, they feel like they have a message, and they do, but that message is really more about them than it is about helping somebody else.

Jared Cagle [00:36:08]:
And I'm like, well, if you want somebody else to pass it along, you know, what are you putting in the mouth of the recommender? You know, like, are they talking about. Because they're probably not recommending your book if it's all about you. Unless you're the Prince of England or something, but most of us are not.

Tim Newman [00:36:29]:
Yeah. And that's really the cardinal sin. Anytime you make it about yourself, it's all about you. And you're never going to make a difference if it's all about you. It has to always be about the people. 100%.

Jared Cagle [00:36:44]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:36:45]:
And that's just, that's been proven time over time over time over time.

Jared Cagle [00:36:50]:
Agreed.

Tim Newman [00:36:51]:
You know, I laugh. How many leadership books are out there in the marketplace? I mean, my God, do we really need another one? Apparently we do, because, I mean, if you look at leadership across, you know, any cross section of society, I mean, we are, I think we're overall in a leadership void. You know, we're.

Jared Cagle [00:37:13]:
Right.

Tim Newman [00:37:14]:
And so, so, yeah, there's plenty of work that still needs to be done.

Jared Cagle [00:37:21]:
I, I agree with that, Tim. And I wanted to say something quickly on that as far as. Okay, there's a, There's a big saturation right now in the market when it comes to leadership, and especially in the world you and I are in. We. We deal with, you know, people that are trying to build their platform or their business as leaders and coaches of leaders. Here, here's what I'll say about that. I. It's, it's.

Jared Cagle [00:37:46]:
The question is not can you sell a million copies of your book? The question is, can you impact a life with your book? And if in. Can that life that's impacted then pass it along to other lives that are. Then passing it along to other lives there. If there's a multiplication effect well, the only way that there's a multiplication effect is if you truly change a life in the first place and then that multiplication effect can happen. And John Maxwell, no matter how many books he sells, he can't reach everybody in the world. I am excited to encourage authors to write about leadership from a position of values based on people centered servant leadership. Because I believe that that's what the world does need. Just like you said, everyone deserves to be led.

Jared Cagle [00:38:36]:
Well, we're in a leadership deficit in our society and there's millions and millions, actually billions of people on the planet that, that need, that need these messages. And so, you know, not everybody's John Maxwell. Praise the Lord for it. Let's, let's, you know, not everybody's Tim Newman either. Let's, let's figure out how to be who we are. And even if it's the same subject, we can reach an audience. You can reach an audience that John doesn't reach. I can reach an audience that you don't reach.

Jared Cagle [00:39:06]:
And so it is a rising tide of sorts.

Tim Newman [00:39:10]:
Yeah. I also think that we need to approach things from a different perspective. Instead of trying to impact, you know, a thousand people, impact your neighbor.

Jared Cagle [00:39:26]:
Beautiful.

Tim Newman [00:39:27]:
Be the pebble in the pond. Right.

Jared Cagle [00:39:29]:
Beautiful.

Tim Newman [00:39:30]:
You can only affect those people that around you, and hopefully they affect people that around them. And you know, start locally, start with your local community, your neighbor, your family. And that's, to me, where real change happens.

Jared Cagle [00:39:46]:
It's a massive, massive message. I love to tell the story about Mel Robbins. She's a widely known name now. At one time she was a struggling attorney and depressed and couldn't get out of bed. And so she created this five second rule for herself to help herself get out of bed. She started sharing it with her friends, her friends started doing it, started working for her friends, her friends started sharing it with their friends. And there was this kind of groundswell of people doing this. So she wrote her first book, the Five Second Rule, and it sold millions of copies.

Jared Cagle [00:40:21]:
And so start locally, start with what works. Don't despise Small beginnings. I love that you said that. Mel Robbins, John Maxwell, they didn't start with where they are now. They started with what worked and with a small group of people that they impacted that then rippled beyond that because it actually worked.

Tim Newman [00:40:45]:
Yeah. And now Mel Robbins is Mel Robbins. She was Mel Robbins before. I don't know who she was, but. But now she's Mel Robbins. And now Simon Sinek is Simon Sinek. And just like you said, so it's it. And that's something that I think the younger generations, and maybe we had it too in my generation.

Tim Newman [00:41:03]:
We wanted everything now, but it doesn't how life works. But let's talk about confidence a little bit. And again, you've been behind the scenes with the best of the best. Do they actually feel confident or are they just prepared?

Jared Cagle [00:41:21]:
Oh, I love that question. I love that question. So let me go this route. I don't think you can really be. Let me say it this way. You can be confident without being prepared, but your confidence without preparedness is very shallow. And most of the time, if you're confident without being prepared, you're probably just more arrogant than actually health, you know, healthy confidence. I see people all the time that aren't nervous to go speak.

Jared Cagle [00:42:01]:
Those are the people that I usually don't hire. If they're not nervous, then that means they're probably puffed up by something that I don't want to come out, number one. And number two, they may not really care as much as I want them to care about the opportunity that's in front of them. Confidence. A healthy confidence also is equipped with humility. A healthy confidence that's rooted and established and trustworthy is built on preparedness and experience and is not void of fear. I want people to be afraid. I want my.

Jared Cagle [00:42:44]:
The best speakers I work with, they are afraid, and they have a reverence for the moment and a reverence for the opportunity. John Maxwell's heartbeat is not as high as mine when I go to the stage. Okay. But he's still very much. He has like this awe and fear of the moment. You know, it's not like a. It's not a paralyzing fear for him because he's done it so much, but it's very much deep within him. Like, I've got to make the most of this moment.

Jared Cagle [00:43:14]:
This is getting me up today, thinking about, okay, I got it. You know, this is a chance to impact people because he reveres the moment. He reveres the chance and confidence. A healthy confidence is laced with humility, and it's built on preparedness. And when you get up there, you may have some fear, but you've got something to fall back on.

Tim Newman [00:43:38]:
Right. And that's again, for the younger generation out there. That's the key. If you haven't done, done the work, you've got nothing.

Jared Cagle [00:43:52]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:43:52]:
And so, so what? I'm giving a keynote here in, in a few days, and it's one I've given a. A couple of times. And obviously I'm changing Some things. I'm actually putting some new stuff in here. And I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that I'm a wreck before I get up on stage, but I'm. I'm me, man. I'm pacing.

Tim Newman [00:44:16]:
I'm probably sweating a little bit, I'm sure.

Jared Cagle [00:44:18]:
Sure.

Tim Newman [00:44:18]:
But I'm also. I'm also in that same place that I want to make sure that, you know, the. The. That I'm delivering to the people that the. The value that. That they deserve. It's not necessarily that I'm going to say something stupid because I. Like I told you, I say dumb stuff all the time.

Tim Newman [00:44:35]:
Right. It's making sure that I deliver value.

Jared Cagle [00:44:38]:
Yep.

Tim Newman [00:44:39]:
But what does preparation look like for these folks at the highest level? I mean, again, you work with John, you work with Mark and Chris and Roddy. Roddy, by the way, is the best in the world doing what he does. What's preparation look like for them?

Jared Cagle [00:44:56]:
Great question. Everybody's a little different, but there are some things that are consistent. John talks about, hey, you got to have your big message, and you got to have your best message. And both of those messages have included. Everywhere you go, the big message never changes. The big message is who you are in the deepest way, what makes you laugh, sing, cry. Like, this is more of the mission and the purpose of your life. And the mission and purpose of the message that you're bringing.

Jared Cagle [00:45:31]:
That core message doesn't change. The best message is contextualize to the environment that you're going into. Contextualize to the people that you're speaking for. And what I love the most about John and many others, Ryan Leaks, another good example of this. Chris Robinson's a good example of this. Where I've watched them, they walk into rooms, and they don't go to the green room before they go speak. They walk into the room before they go speak because they're picking up context, and that is shaping their best message. Right.

Jared Cagle [00:46:02]:
The best message for that room has to be contextualized. You get a sense of who they are. I went into an event, actually, John wrote about this in 16 laws and put me in the book about it where we went to an event together, and they tried to take him to the green room. He's like, I want to go to the front row. And so they were taking him to the front row, but they took him through a crowd of people in the back hallway. And so he spent a little time with the 12 people or so that were there, and he's talking to them, and the whole time. Most people miss this. That was a preparation moment for him.

Jared Cagle [00:46:36]:
Every moment is preparation. And he's in that hallway and he's asking the people what their names are, what their stories are, how they got there, what they want to accomplish, what their dreams are. And he went through all 12 of them. And we walked to the front row so that he could see the room and he could be in the session before he stepped up. And I asked him if that was a distracting moment for him. He said, oh, no, no, no, no, no. That's preparation. I said, tell me more.

Jared Cagle [00:47:04]:
He said, I now know more about this audience because I got a little bit deeper into the mentality, the mindset, and the heart of those 12 people than I would have otherwise. And I can see. He said, I could see that they need a father today because the energy I got from them was, Was. Was frantic. It was. They're entrepreneurs, they're in real estate, they're high demand, high intensity. They need a father. They need somebody to help settle them.

Jared Cagle [00:47:38]:
They need somebody to speak into their life from a more of a father seat. And so he came with a different posture because of what he picked up in that preparation moment. Sometimes it happens in the hall, sometimes it happens on the front row, sometimes. Sometimes it happens on a pre call with the event coordinator beforehand. But every time you get a chance to pick up, you know, what. What breadcrumbs are you picking up of context that help you prepare? I see far too many speakers spending 95, 98% of their time, sometimes 100% of their time, developing their content, getting married to the words that they put on a. On a transcript or a manuscript, and then going up there and delivering it according to plan without ever reading the room, without ever asking for context. And that's where we go wrong, right?

Tim Newman [00:48:26]:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was told a long time ago to do kind of what John does. And I like. If I'm going to speak on a college campus, I'll spend pretty much the afternoon on campus. You know, interact with students, faculty, staff, talking to them, have lunch with them, what have you. Then I'll go and rest for an hour or two, get cleaned up and get ready to go and use all that stuff, like you said, is to add context to the presentation, to make those connections. It's not just generic. That's part of the connection.

Tim Newman [00:49:07]:
That's part of adding value to be able. It helps them put. Put the pieces together and see how it relates to them. Anyway, so what's next for you? What are you working on? We got a book coming out of you anytime soon?

Jared Cagle [00:49:23]:
I'm helping everybody else, Tim. I'm open. Everybody.

Tim Newman [00:49:26]:
Come on now. Come on now.

Jared Cagle [00:49:28]:
I know, I know. Maybe one day I do have. I do have dreams in here that one day I'll absolutely publish my own. But, you know, John's at a stage where we've got 14 books on his list. He calls it his book line. And we're trying our best to help him develop those. And it's. It's a legacy.

Jared Cagle [00:49:50]:
It's a legacy season for us. Right. I'm. I feel very blessed, honestly, blown away by the opportunity to learn from him and to help steward what he's. What he's giving to the world at this stage of his life and career. And so that. That's my focus right now. And.

Jared Cagle [00:50:10]:
And others like Mark Cole, we. I'm excited. I'm working on something with him. The team and, and I are coming around him and we'll have a book for him soon and working with others as well. And. Yeah, just trying to be that champion for others right now in this season. And, and all the while I'm learning for. For one day when it's time, you know, I'll have my own.

Tim Newman [00:50:33]:
Well, that's good to hear. And I think John's always going to have 14 books on his list. That's right.

Jared Cagle [00:50:40]:
I know. You're exactly right.

Tim Newman [00:50:44]:
And by the way, I don't think we talk enough about Mark and what he's done and what he continues to do and those types of things. And not many people. I haven't shared this with many people, but Mark was the inspiration for me writing my most recent book. Mark said something in one of our calls that we do on a weekly basis.

Jared Cagle [00:51:06]:
That's awesome.

Tim Newman [00:51:07]:
And the last book I wrote was 12 years ago. I said, I'm never doing it again. And he said something that triggered something in me and I just wrote it. I just did it. But that's what leadership is, right? It gets people to think and move. But, Jared, let me tell you, I can't thank you enough for spending some time with us today. Where can people go to learn more about Maxwell leadership and start developing their communication and leadership skills?

Jared Cagle [00:51:37]:
Oh, thanks, Tim. Thanks for the opportunity. It's been a real pleasure. I've loved getting to connect with you more, and hopefully it's not the last time we get to do this. MaxwellLeadership.com is our website. We're on all social media platforms as well. Maxwell Leadership. You can find John C.

Jared Cagle [00:51:56]:
Maxwell is his handle on all social media as well. So any of those will work. Maxwellleadership.com and you can track with us. Tim's a part of our community and there's many others, many other thousands that are in the same community, same tribe. And we're thrilled to be able to to impact a lot of people together.

Tim Newman [00:52:18]:
Absolutely. Jared. Again, thank you so much. I always enjoy spending time with you. Best to the family and we'll talk to you soon.

Jared Cagle [00:52:25]:
Likewise. Thanks, Tim.

Tim Newman [00:52:27]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, the Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Formula for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We'll take talk to you next time. Take care.