Why Soft Skills Matter: Communication, Career Prep, and College Success with Mike Wysocki

Tim Newman [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach and I'm thrilled to guide you on a journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is Mike Wysocki. After 30 plus years in tech sales, Wysocki published the award winning and bestselling book on career readiness, Careers by the People. And he talks with students about workforce preparation as he was not prepared after schooling. Mike, welcome to the show. And let me tell you something, that book that you wrote is phenomenal and I know we're going to get into it as we talk today, but welcome.

Mike Wysocki [00:00:55]:
To the show, Tim. Thank you for the opportunity to get a chance to speak to your audience. And the other thing too is thank you for the kind words about the book and my history and all like that. I'm just trying to like yourself, do, do good for the world and help the next generation improve and get the tools that we didn't have when we were younger. So anything I could help out with and of course, whether having to talk about a book by speaking engagements and my past as well to make sure the next generation has a better shot than I did.

Tim Newman [00:01:24]:
So, yeah, we got a lot to talk about and I'm excited to really get into it. But before we do, you live in Maui and I'm sure living in Maui doesn't suck as living over there. Has that had any shift in your lifestyle or influence your perspective on work, leadership or communication?

Mike Wysocki [00:01:47]:
Oh, God, yeah. Wow, awesome question, Tim. That's a good one. Nobody's ever asked me that one. Yeah, so it actually has. And here's the reasoning why. And, and I grew up in the Boston area and so from there is, you know, the northeast car to go, go, go crazy, you know. Right.

Mike Wysocki [00:02:02]:
I moved to Los Angeles, the, the, you know, the Southern California. Go, go, go crazy. And I need to. Could calm down and relax. And so I moved over to Maui, South Maui actually, which is in my view, Mecca of America, the best place to live in America. And it does, it keeps me focused big time. Here's what some of the reasons are, is because I really don't worry about things like weather because I can, I know that on the weekends I can go swimming, which clears your head. Right.

Mike Wysocki [00:02:29]:
And so it can keep me focused on, you know, other than my health and my dog, this whole career readiness resolution and trying to help out the young people with that. So I'm. I'm thoroughly focused, and so it does help out a great deal because it's such a relaxing environment. So you either get a lot of children over here, a lot of retirees, not too many people in the middle. So it's, It's. It's a great. It's a. I mean, I think it's.

Mike Wysocki [00:02:55]:
I mean, I don't know what I did, but I ended up in. In the greatest place in America, in my view. And so I'm happy. I mean, you live in one of the top places as well, too. Yeah, you get a good argument. You've got a good debate and argument as well, you know.

Tim Newman [00:03:07]:
So, you know, it's. I try and get my kids down here and, you know, they're not having it for whatever reason, and it's. It's really hard to explain sometimes, you know, when you come on the island and I've been to Hawaii, when you go to places like that, the feeling is very different. So, like, when I come on the island here, doesn't matter how long I've been off the island, even if I just go across to do some things, when you come across that bridge, it almost feels like there's a weight lifted off of you, you know, and. And it's just calm and it's peaceful, you know, and even when I'm working during, during the day, I don't have. I don't feel that same heaviness or same weight that I did, you know, when I was living in other places.

Mike Wysocki [00:03:51]:
Yeah. It's funny because if I do a business trip to Oahu, just say for a day or two, you want to come back. And the flight back is amazing, even though it's like 30 minutes. But the fact about it is just getting out of the big city mentality of, you know, traffic, go, go, go, hustle, all that, you know, and when you go, When I go travel on the road, it's like I missed the mainland some parts of it, but again, it's awesome to leave. It's great to go back and check it out. But I always like to leave and get back to Mecca because again, it's. It's a more relaxed environment. And, and it's good that, you know, because you and I, we did our time in.

Mike Wysocki [00:04:29]:
In industry, and so now it's time to finish up and at least, you know, enjoy where you live so you can finish, you know, and get really super focused on what you want to accomplish before the end.

Tim Newman [00:04:39]:
So, yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. I mean, you've got an amazing career. You worked in technology, sales and education and now you're, you're speaking to help students prepare for real world careers. What led you to that and led you to write the book Careers by the People?

Mike Wysocki [00:04:58]:
Again, thank you. That, that's the most imperative question because the fact is I was a first generation low income student and I came from an, an area working class where most people focus on about a handful of opportunities, jobs and what careers. And I didn't want to do that. I wanted to do something else in the world. It was something like this that was aching to me to, to get out of that mindset. So thank God I, I got into a couple good colleges and from there I didn't. But in school I learned a great deal, but I didn't learn anything about career in career readiness and career preparation. So as soon as I got out of college, I'm like, okay, I gotta go get a good job.

Mike Wysocki [00:05:40]:
And this is, this is what I did to qualify, to check what I wanted to do. I asked my sister, I go, hey, where's a good place to work in Boston? She goes, fidelity. I'm like, okay, so I've hyper focused, got a job at Fidelity and it was a great place to work, but I was bored and I had no excitement. And so from there I met somebody there at the company and their friend work in insurance sales because he made big money in my thought process was, and it is for a lot of people, money equals happiness. It's not true, but the fact is, so I tried to go to sell insurance and that was God, awfully depressing. But I worked with a lot of nice people. And from there I was just bouncing around. And then I said, you know what? I couldn't get a gig in Boston that I liked.

Mike Wysocki [00:06:21]:
So I said to hell with it and moved to Los Angeles, tried to sell movie scripts like most people and failed at that. Went back into tech and you know, and started getting involved with advanced selling. And you do well, but it's an industry that you, if you have no interest in, no joy in other than a great paycheck. It's a real drag, right? So during that time I'm like, is everybody as miserable in their career occupation as I am? And so then I just started asking people and then I'm like, you know what? I got to get this information out there because a lot of my associates were, you know, they're having kids, buying, you know, three cars, two houses, living the life of Riley. And I'm like, you know what? I'd rather put my money into something a little better where I could help out. And so I got a website done and I asked people through throughout the states all these questions, 20 plus questions about their career. And I pulled off their last name so they could tell the truth and no blowback. And our responses were amazing.

Mike Wysocki [00:07:20]:
CEOs, actuaries, accountants put it all together in the book. And then I informed what I should have done to prepare for the workforce. And boom, the endorsements occurred, the awards started flowing in. I mean, a review from Forbes was awesome. I mean, it's like when somebody from Forbes Reach, you know, you connect them with somebody from Forbes and they go, oh my God, they love the book. You're like, wow. So, I mean, right, that, you know, and speaking of the schools to all these students, and it's amazing because if I speak to a school in the top 50, those students are doing great. There's no question.

Mike Wysocki [00:07:58]:
They're prepped. They're really focused on their careers. As soon as I speak to a school, you know, the US, US news reports and the schools ranked 254, 5 or something, it's a mess. It's a complete colossal disaster. They're not getting any career prep. They're not public speaking like, like, like what you talk about. And then a lot of them aren't even on LinkedIn. One student asked me at a good college in New England area, he goes, hey, Wysocki, after I spoke, he goes, they educators tell us to network.

Mike Wysocki [00:08:26]:
What does it even mean? So all of this career readiness stuff is rarely spoken about.

Tim Newman [00:08:33]:
Yeah.

Mike Wysocki [00:08:33]:
In high school and in the colleges. And it just, there's a handful of us out there doing this work, but it's amazing how it's just getting ignored. I mean, we can get more into it, but I mean, yeah, let's, it's.

Tim Newman [00:08:45]:
A big issue because it's, it's concerning to me because, you know, like you said, the high profile schools, the elite schools are doing it. And like you said, those kids and those students are going to be fine. Let's, let's make this real clear. We're not just talking about colleges here. Right. We're talking about public education, K12 education. Right. And so because to me, this really starts, probably, should probably start, you know, late middle school, maybe high school, talking about career preparation and some of those other things.

Tim Newman [00:09:19]:
Why do you think there's such a big gap that exists between the, the good and elite schools and everyone else?

Mike Wysocki [00:09:26]:
It's funny, I had a conversation the other day and okay, from the good schools, from the elites, okay, the elites are hyper focused on success and they understand it and they get the money too. The money goes to the elites. They're prepared, they understand it, they know how to use it for the non elite schools, what they do. And my theory is in my next book, because I prep all these, I talk to a lot of students in college preparing for the workforce. My thought process is this student A goes into college like a topic, you know, not, not a top 50, but like school them at 250. I want to become a mechanical engineer. Great. The advisor goes, awesome.

Mike Wysocki [00:10:03]:
We have that degree. Give me $100,000 and done. That's their focus. Get the student in, get the money, push them out the door. That is it. With career services and all like that, the amount of people that are out there in these schools, it's like per student it's up to 4, 5,500, 1,000 students. And, and a lot of these people in the career fields over there in the colleges might be two years out of school. So how much they know about the workforce or they're 50 years out of school and they're just burning out.

Mike Wysocki [00:10:35]:
And so that's, that's an issue that I see consistently. And so these young people are not getting prepared. And again, education is always like, let's just give them a good education and the workforce can figure it out. The workforce. Then industry is complaining that the students aren't prepared with the professional and soft skills that are needed from Sherm and all like that. And they say and they complain about it, but nobody's doing a damn thing. People are writing about it, bitching about it, complaining about it and nobody's resolving it. Okay, There are a handful of people out there resolving it, right? Those schools are rare.

Mike Wysocki [00:11:08]:
And for the students that are looking to go into higher education, they better go out and dig out what schools they are. My next book will give a suggestion of a handful of them. But again also the students that are in high school that have appeared for the workforce, they may need a couple different, you know, classes and courses about career readiness, professional skills, all of that. But no, the schools aren't teaching, I mean very rare to find them. And every time I speak to the schools, high schools, I always narrow down the classes to a third and third, a third, a third of the students a go getters. They're the leaders. They're going to leave the country, period. They're fine.

Mike Wysocki [00:11:43]:
And in, in, in any school out There we're talking the worst and the best, right? You got the middle third and the lower third. The lower third are lost. They're going to be ditch diggers. There's nothing I can do. That's, that's an issue somebody else to resolve. The middle third is my go to. They can go either way. They can go, they can go down the tubes or they can go to focus and go out there and try to get opportunity.

Mike Wysocki [00:12:06]:
And those are the ones I, I try to focus on because I was in that group because first gen, low income and I didn't care. I'm like, okay, I'll just hang out and I don't know what I'll end up doing after high school. And so those are the guys I really focus on because the top third will always come to me at the end of class, ask questions, be really enthused, blah, blah, blah. The middle sometimes. And you can dig them out. It's amazing. These, these people have great knowledge and great, you know, focus, but yet they're in scenarios that are tough. One example was when I spoke to school in the Massachusetts area.

Mike Wysocki [00:12:39]:
The students were bused in from another area, which is Brockton, actually a tough, tough neighborhood. And this one of the students I spoke to from the neighborhood, I mean this, this young man was amazing. I was blown away. He, he was asking all these questions that were really intense and I'm like, wow. And then the teachers afterwards going, we loved your interaction with the young man. And I was like, well, he's smart guy go. The should be. He goes, hey, you don't get it.

Mike Wysocki [00:13:02]:
His brother's a gangster. He's always getting, he's not getting in trouble. His brother is, they look the same. So you know, his life is terrible. And I go, God, he's so intelligent. And they go, yeah. So it's, it's just, I mean, it's crazy, right? I've seen a lot and I try my best to figure out how I can help out the next generation. And the roadblocks are intense.

Mike Wysocki [00:13:20]:
Obstacles are amazing. Education avoids being like the plague. But I'm not, I'm gonna keep fighting. I don't care what's going to stop me.

Tim Newman [00:13:29]:
Yeah. You know, and I'm glad you brought, brought that up because I was, I was also, you know, first generation college student, you know, middle, middle income, you know, middle class family. And you know, the institutions that I primarily taught at are the same way. You know, the primary students are first generation college students that come either from middle to lower class households and you know, there's some of those students that. Let's just put it this way right now, those students are probably the smartest I've ever dealt with. Smartest. And they're the most entrepreneurial I've ever dealt with. And I've said this over and over and over again, but those soft skills are just.

Tim Newman [00:14:18]:
They're at the opposite end of the spectrum. Probably the worst event we've ever seen. And it doesn't really matter what they know. If they can't communicate, if they can't write a letter, if they can't do a cover letter, if they can't do a resume, if they can't write a report, they're not going to make it.

Mike Wysocki [00:14:38]:
Here's the thing about it is there's you, myself, and, like I said, a handful of people out there screaming at the top of our lungs about these issues. And again, industry is out there screaming, too, but industry is not doing anything. And a lot of these foundations out there are screaming, too, but they're not doing much. And so the fact about it is, is, you know, we got to keep pushing on it. And. But. But the word is getting out. If you can see on social media and all like that, you see a lot of people talking, you know, soft skills, and then they fight about, can we change the name to Professional skills or Power Skills? I got a response last week.

Mike Wysocki [00:15:10]:
I'm like, I don't care. Call whatever you want. Just teach the damn things in school. And so when I go and speak to the students, how I focus is I tell them, I give them all these suggestions about how to figure out what to do themselves, things that they don't even talk about in school. I mean, you know, going to trade shows and industry, all things that they have no idea because they're in education, they don't deal with it, right. When it comes to the professional skills, soft skills, or as my buddy in. In Northeastern says, power skills. I sit there and I.

Mike Wysocki [00:15:40]:
And I explain to them how to resolve each one. And you mentioned the big one. So the first one I always say, is what you do, the communication. I go, professional speaking. I go, you have to be able to publicly speak. If you don't, it will affect your confidence in your net worth. I don't care how afraid you are of it either. Take a class.

Mike Wysocki [00:16:00]:
Take an acting class. Go to Toastmasters. I go, you have to sit there and do it, you know, whatever it takes. And I saw that you had a great interview with somebody with comedy. What's it called? The sand of comic. That's the other.

Tim Newman [00:16:13]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Mike Wysocki [00:16:14]:
Go up and try to go to the. The worst comedy club in a safe area and just try to get up there. But the fact is you have to get up in front of people and speak. And the thing about it is, it's addicting. Once you do it and you're comfortable with it, you'll do it all the time. I mean, you and I, you go, hey, hey. Speak in front of five people not done speaking for the 5,000 Dub.

Tim Newman [00:16:36]:
Who.

Mike Wysocki [00:16:36]:
You don't care because. Because we've done it. But it's a sad fear that people. I remember in high school, people like, I'm not gonna do up in public speaking. It's like, just do it, man. It's just like, what's. I mean, you're not like in a political realm where people can get. Jump on the stage and fight you or something like that.

Mike Wysocki [00:16:53]:
You're talking about, you know, serious subjects, so people are more interested or they not off. So I mean, it's the thing you gotta do. And then after that, you know, the rest of it's, you know, the writing and teamwork and, you know, leading, you know, without authority and all like that. So.

Tim Newman [00:17:07]:
Well, even with teamwork, if you can't communicate with somebody, there's no way you can have teamwork. Right. I mean, it's. It.

Mike Wysocki [00:17:16]:
That.

Tim Newman [00:17:16]:
That's. That's really where it all starts. And so. So how do we, you know, both. The business side, they've got their own agenda, right? And I get. And the education side has their own agenda, and I get that. And now we're here in the middle where the two of them really should be working together. And I did this a lot.

Tim Newman [00:17:36]:
And there are some institutions and some majors and some careers that do this really well, but for the most part, they don't. How can we bring them together to say, okay, these are the skills that we really need them to have? And I'm talking about from a bigger picture perspective, right? All the way from K12 education through. Through higher ed, you know, because there we can't continue to be doing a disservice to our students, to our kids, to our future by, like you said, just complaining about it and not do anything about it. And. And that's on. That's on all. All sides.

Mike Wysocki [00:18:11]:
Yeah. I mean, how can you resolve it? You know, that. That would be a massive, you know, but. So what I was trying to do was. And I'm trying to do different angles now, but I'm always reach out to industry. Because when you deal with education, you talk to them and you're like, you know what? Hey, I'm. I'm a paid for speaker because, you know, I have to pay for planes, hotel rooms, and I have to eat and pay bills, too. And so they're always like, we have no money.

Mike Wysocki [00:18:34]:
And I'm like, all right, you have no money. And so I go to industry, and I'm like, industry. I know you recruit at the high schools and the college, you know, work with me to help me, you know, educate them. And you get no responses from anybody to do that. And so I'm like, you know what? So I'm looking at other alternative ways on trying to figure this out where I can help bridge the gap, whereas the rest of the country, I don't know, a lot of people are talking a big game and all like that. But I. I haven't seen really many people deliver, you know, but I don't. I'm not really doing all the reading in.

Mike Wysocki [00:19:10]:
In investigation about other states or whatever, what they're doing. I mean, I quickly do because I've got so much to resolve myself on getting, you know, getting into the schools and speaking about it. But you always get a, you know, a little plug here and there that, you know, like, Florida school district is doing amazing. But they might be doing amazing on tests, though. But what are they doing? Are they doing amazing on career readiness? But in my next book, what I did do is here's an. Here's what I kind of did. You might get a kick out of. And so when I was trying to explain to students, because I asked them 30 plus questions about career readiness and career prep.

Mike Wysocki [00:19:47]:
And so my angle was to. A lot of the students were. It's like, there are schools that are out there that are career ready. And I went out and found some organization that did a career ready study, and they listed 10 colleges. And I said, you know what? Instead of always getting to the college that you just, you know, you want to go to that wins championships, why don't you look at a college that's career ready? And then I also show what championships they won, you know what I mean? So, like, I think. I think it was University of Maryland was one of them. And I go, look at that. They.

Mike Wysocki [00:20:18]:
They won the lacrosse championship or Temple won like a basketball turn, a championship. And so I look at these certain schools and I'm like, okay, not only are they great for career readiness, they've also done well in sports. So there's your sports kick. There So I tried to analyze and put them both together and. But I also tell them too. I go, if you, if you love school X, Y or Z, you can get a good scenario and set up. You can always hire a career coach too. I go, so that is another alternative as well.

Mike Wysocki [00:20:47]:
So I try to give as many thoughts and angles and ideas of how to do it and what to do to try to prep themselves. And I constantly, what I speak about to the school students, I really analyze that with the questions, like example, like shadowing, right. I asked the students I have, okay, what career you want to do in your head and have you shadowed that? And in my next book, I find out that that's only 33% of the students at Shadow. And the saddest of the sad is when I go to speak to the students at schools and colleges. I asked them who shadowed. Then I said, wait a sec, who knows what shadowing means? And so I explained that and I explained to them about professional associations, which they're not going to know anything about because they're not in the world that you and I are. But it gives them at least connections or thought processes. I go, if you thinking about going into an industry like health care, go to a trade show, you can network with hundreds of people right there and they're either in marketing and sales and engineering and operations.

Mike Wysocki [00:21:45]:
I go, the opportunities are out there, you know, but again, you and I, because of our backgrounds, can explain to the students. But you know, again, the schools are like, well, we want the winningest football team, so we're going to spend $50 billion on a new stadium versus, hey, drop a couple thousand bucks here and there on speakers, right? And one school I was looking at in Massachusetts, it's like, it was embarrassing. I was trying to reach out to the director of the career services and I look at what's on the docket in for a whole semester, they had 12 hour career fair, no speakers, nothing about career readiness. They might have had a Halloween, you know, fun, fun activity, but it was just nonsense. I'm like, these students. And then the students were paying 5,000 a semester and really nothing. They had no career exploration classes. It's like, for the love of Jesus, why are you going to that school? So, yeah, yeah.

Tim Newman [00:22:40]:
And that's one of the things that, you know, when I'm talking to parents and students, you know, as they're going through that search process is, you know, maybe, maybe look a little bit closer at what the individual major is doing or what the individual school inside the institution is doing. Yeah, because, you know, like you said, the schools have, they may have a department of it, but like you said, it could be one person to 450. But if you look at the major, if you look at the individual school and they're really focused on that major or the majors that are in that school to help them get the skills they need for that individual career. Right. And within that, at least from my experience and where I've worked, is we always pushed practical education. We always pushed the soft skills, the communication, the writing, the teamwork, the things we've been talking about. And when our students would go out and they would get internships and they would look at their peers, they're saying, look, these kids aren't even close to what we are. And I said, yeah, because these are the things that we focus on, the practical education, doing things, job shadowing.

Tim Newman [00:23:57]:
I don't think I ever had a class where an assignment was not to go out and interview an industry professional because not only does it give you some insight into the industry, it gives you insight into an individual. It gives you a chance to network, gives you a chance to actually speak and communicate on a different level than you've ever done, and you have to come back and present that information. So you're building on a number of different skills all in one assignment. Yeah.

Mike Wysocki [00:24:26]:
And that's awesome. I always inform the students, I go, whatever your thought process is of what you want to do, I want you to minimally speak to five people in that industry and two that have left that industry, why they leave an occupation or a career that you seem to love. You need to know both sides of the, the coin. And I go, the best thing about it is when you have the students going, you know what, I went in there, I did the shadowing and I didn't like it. I go, perfect. That saves you some time. The other one too is I always tell them internships, because students are trying to kill for these internships. And I go, you know what they were called before internships? Summer jobs.

Mike Wysocki [00:25:02]:
Summer jobs. I go, you're going to be interviewing the guy might be 60. And you go, you know, he goes, you have no internships on your resume. And you go, yeah, I got a job. And I go, you know, it's going to, you're going to set yourself apart because you're different. I go, how about part time work? How about temp work? I don't care, just get in the door if you want to be an accountant, actuary, I don't care. How you get in the door, get in the door. If you can't, if there's nothing out there, I go, you know what? Ask him, say, you know what, from, from 3:00 o'clock to, to 5:00 clock on Fridays, is it okay if I, if I'm a gopher or I volunteer, I work for free.

Mike Wysocki [00:25:34]:
I want to know what it's like to be in this industry. And that's what I tell them. I go, I go, there's nobody out there being that aggressive. The other thing too is I go, I go, here's, here's what I. Why associations of gold mines? Because the people that are in associations, one, enjoy their career and two, they usually the best at it or really good at that. And so if you join and start talking with them and eventually, you know, get in that world, I go, they're gonna love you. You're gonna be the only 20 year old in there. It's going to be a bunch of 50 year old people.

Mike Wysocki [00:26:04]:
And you know what? The 50 year old people want to be 20 years old, 20 years old and try to pass on their education because they love their industry. I go, so that's an angle to talk to people. And I go, you know, that's called networking as well. And when it comes to opportunity and you say, hey, I'm looking for a job, I'm looking to start this industry. They'll be like, oh, I can help you out. Can you move to Cleveland? You know, I'm like, you know what? If you get an opportunity for an industry that you like or career, if you have to move to Cleveland or Des Moines or wherever, go for it. Or quite the opposite. If you're from Des Moines, you're going to move to New York City, you do it or Philly or whatever.

Mike Wysocki [00:26:38]:
I go, you got to go out there and get the experience. I go, because experience equals cash, but also equals opportunity, blah, blah, blah, and so you can grow your career and that's it. Other than that though, just applying online, you know, 30% chance. And I also, I go, I go about networking is Perez and Bollinger. I go read the 20 minute networking book. Yeah. Which is killer because it gives you clear and concise information of meeting somebody and how to network with them appropriately and then do the follow up, which everybody's failing on. So yes.

Mike Wysocki [00:27:10]:
You know, so there's so many, you know, angles. I mean, I just read a book this weekend somebody sent me was kickstart your teen's career exploration. And it was great. It was an easy, fun Read. And I sent it back to Amy. And I go, from Amy Zandonowski. And I go, Amy, I go, this is so easy to reach because yeah, it's for parents with teenagers who don't know what to do. And I go, that's a lot of them.

Mike Wysocki [00:27:31]:
But some of them think that teens already know so much. So it's going to be like, you know, but it was always interesting stuff. But it's always a joy to, to go out there. But all of them say the same thing. Talk to people in industry. I try to tell the students to go one on one. I don't want, right a zoom, I don't want texting. I want you to meet with the person, wherever they are, be nice to them, you know, and bring them a coffee or whatever, water.

Mike Wysocki [00:27:59]:
I mean, whatever it takes. Just go out there and meet with people that industries and interest you. That is step one from everybody who's written any books about career readiness. I mean, Dicky Bowles, you name them. I mean, all those guys did it. So the par. Parachute guys, design your life guys, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, gorkning, etc, you.

Tim Newman [00:28:18]:
Know, and just to follow up on a couple things that you said, especially if you're younger and you get an opportunity someplace that's not at home, what responsibilities do you have? Go learn. Go try and live on your own. Go try and figure things out in a completely different place. And if you don't like it when you're young and you don't have any responsibilities, you're not losing anything, you're gaining things, you could always come back, right?

Mike Wysocki [00:28:47]:
It's I, I speak about that big time in book one, Book two, I always go back to an article written by Bob Reich, who was a former labor secretary under Clinton, and he wrote a gopher job. He goes, go get work. And he said exactly what you said. And this is how he phrased it was he's like, you know what? Before you decide on going to graduate school, go out and work in that industry. And he goes, get a go for job. Get the lowest job. And he goes, I don't care what city, where it is, because he said that. He goes, secondary city is the best because the job's not going to pay well, period.

Mike Wysocki [00:29:20]:
So if you're in a secondary city, you can go out there and get great experience and then make a determination. Do you go to graduate school, stay in career, what do you do? But you get great experience. But here's the other thing too is if you do go to an alternative city, it's better because you know what? You don't know anybody. You can stay focused. You can do everything that you can focus on in your career. You, you can get into volunteering. You can do activity. I, I, I read about that.

Mike Wysocki [00:29:46]:
As soon as I go, I go, stay fit. Do good things. Go out there, get the word known, who you are, learn as much about it and sit there and focus as much as you can on set industry. So you can learn as much as you possibly can in the time. Think of it as basically your master's degree in education of doing it, actually. So, you know, it's, it's easy for us to say because it's common sense, but some of the students out there, I, I get calls and connections. They go, what do you think? And I go, yeah, go for it. Yeah, what do you get to lose? And you're right, you can always go back.

Mike Wysocki [00:30:18]:
Because wherever you're from doesn't really change that much. When I go back to where I grew up in Weymouth, Mass. I go, I hear the same stories from 40 years ago like it was yesterday. And I'm like, oh, boy, you know, so focus on, yeah, you've done the same thing. Yeah. On what you enjoy and how you can be successful in it. Those are the, I mean, I mean, you and I preach. That's why I preach, you know, and.

Tim Newman [00:30:43]:
Here'S a couple more tips for, for anybody. You know, when you, when you get hired for a job, there's certain things that you should do. You should always be the first one there. You should always be the first one to leave. I mean, excuse me, the last one to leave. First one there. Last one to leave. And you should once a week, do something that's not in your job description.

Tim Newman [00:31:07]:
Help somebody else. Hey, what do you need help on? Right? And maybe schedule some time with your boss. Hey, boss, thanks so much. I appreciate the opportunity. If you need anything, please let me know. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to learn. So if you need something that's out of the ordinary, I'm your man.

Tim Newman [00:31:29]:
Call me, let me know, and I'll help you. Those things are gold in that situation.

Mike Wysocki [00:31:34]:
I agree. 100, but it's actually, I get an easy response on that one. My good buddy Gorg ning wrote the book Unspoken Rules, and that's exactly what I tell the students. I go, when you prep for a career and you're ready to go into corporate America or the workforce, you know, day two of grading out of college, I go, I expect you And I, I, I urge you read the book called Unspoken Rules. Gorick Working Workforce. He's got his MBA from Harvard, Harvard guy and like that, but in very cool. And he gives you clear and concise situations of what to do in those. And exactly like you said, prepare.

Mike Wysocki [00:32:08]:
Get to know everybody in your team. Eye contact, focus with them, learn about them. And I always tell them, the students, I go, when it comes to teamwork, I go, be open minded. I go, everybody says they're open minded, but be open minded. If somebody has a different opinion than you, why do they have that and learn that person. If you're from big city, they might be from rural. If you're from the south, they might be from the northeast or the west or, or they're from Europe or something like that. You get a PhD, they get a GED, but they're in the same scenario as you learn from them.

Mike Wysocki [00:32:40]:
And the thing about it is you might be not best friends with this person, but in a couple years when you're in a situation, you're not sure what the answer could be and why you can reach out to that person. Hey Bob. Hey Susie. I'm in this new gig and I'm having a, I'm having some confusion about the situation I'm in. You got a few minutes to speak? They're like, not now, but call me at 4pm I'll give you an hour. And that's a huge thing. And that's why I sit there and I go, all my focus is, is to try to get you in industries that interest you, that you can do well at. I go, then I throw it over to Goric and then there's a lot of people way before me that focus on the real, the real basic information about determining, you know, occupations, career and stu like that.

Mike Wysocki [00:33:23]:
I just want to get the students thinking about occupations and how to go out there and network and get into them as deep as possible. So yeah, so that's the good thing about it is I, I do my best to read as many books as possible on these subjects so I can throw them out left and right of people and I put them up on my YouTube channel and say, hey, here's a book I read Good information. I suggest you knock it out. So the information, again, the information is out there and if the students want to prep, great. If they want to listen to their 22 year old friend who has a nice haircut, I mean they're not going to know a damn thing about the real world. But, but you know, you can't tell a 20 year old that. Right?

Tim Newman [00:34:01]:
So, well that's, that's, that's what I would tell my, my students all the time is, you know, if you've got a question, you know, you're, whenever you're, your classmates telling you is probably wrong. So if you want your question answered, come talk to me or come talk to somebody in industry because you know your classmate, they're not going to be the one that helps you graduate. They're not going to be the one that helps you truly get a job. They're not going to be the one that's guiding you unless they're in a completely special class. Right? So you've got to go talk to the people who've done it before who, who have a vested interest in your success.

Mike Wysocki [00:34:39]:
100%. I always tell students, I go, it's great if you talk to people who are 25, that's nice, but talk to 35, 45, 55. I want you to have people that you can connect with, right? I go, they don't have to be mentors. I go, just pull that word out. Just use trusted advisor, somebody you can connect with here and there that has knowledge of the industry, who's been in there 5, 10, 15, 20 years. So you can throw ideas out at them, see what the responses are, you know, and you can call them here and there. When you run to wall. If you keep talking to 20 year olds or you know, younger people, they're not going to have the vast experience in the industry.

Mike Wysocki [00:35:14]:
I mean, when it comes to tech weenie stuff, sure, maybe some kid who's 25 might know all, everything about AI or whatever the hot new term is. But when it comes to professional skills, all of that speak to the elders because you know what, that stuff's been around for a million years. So it's best to speak to people who've actually lived through it and lived through ups and downs of economies, lived at different locations, you know, gone through the real world and. Because it doesn't really change that much over the years.

Tim Newman [00:35:44]:
So, so when, when it comes to career readiness.

Mike Wysocki [00:35:49]:
Yeah, okay.

Tim Newman [00:35:52]:
In the next generation, what, what are the, what's the one thing that keep, that gives you hope and what's one thing that keeps you up at night?

Mike Wysocki [00:36:01]:
Well, the career readiness, obviously, you know, it keeps me going and just, it just, I know that it's needed out there. What keeps me up at night is the divide between education industry as well as the education and industry's lack of focusing on the first gen low Income in these secondary schools and all like that. I see a lot of students being left behind or ignored because of. They're just pushing education, education, education versus career education. I mean, I love CTE career and technical education organizations because they're doing a great, A great service to the, to the state. So there are some pluses out there. But I do see this divide and I do see. It's just sad to see people getting left behind because of their scenarios.

Mike Wysocki [00:36:56]:
So.

Tim Newman [00:36:56]:
Right.

Mike Wysocki [00:36:57]:
I wish there was more people pushing, you know, career opportunities and understanding. And, you know, the students you've asked me, they go, why, Saki, were you a good student? I go, no, average. I go average in college, too. I go, I was an average technology sales guy too, you know, and that's it. So that's why you gotta find your passion or something that interests you where you can do well at where. I see. Doing good, though. No, no, no, I.

Mike Wysocki [00:37:21]:
I see a lot of it. Again, we spoke about originally was. It was the third or third or third. And so the third students I talked to, I mean, they're beyond awesome. They're extremely bright, they're extremely interested. They want to get things going. And I'm sure that was like it when you and I were younger too, but I think the possibilities are out there. And the other thing too is I see a lot of people.

Mike Wysocki [00:37:42]:
I see career readiness is the new buzzword, which is cool. And I see a lot of people out there writing some really great stuff. And I've read some books that blow me away. Hacking College by Carlson and Laff was amazing. And I try to get as much info as possible when I do that, readings and all like that. And I see these people in the CTE programs that are doing really great work at helping students, like, navigate through that. So there are a lot of good things happening. So don't get me wrong, everything's not negative, but there's a lot of people getting left behind.

Mike Wysocki [00:38:16]:
And, you know, so I mean, I wish. I wish the school systems, I wish the educational hierarchy and all like that would really get really getting involved with the career readiness push. And I wish to get more people from industry, older people for industry, into the career education piece in K12 or higher education, because as we age, we do have a lot of experience. So bring us in maybe for a day here and there, or involved with contract work or whatever, but bring people from the real world in and especially the retired ones, because once you're retired from a field, you can tell the truth if they bring in the Local vice president of the bank at a Spokane guy's gonna be like, oh, yeah, I love my job. My manager and I hug every morning. He's making 250. He's living the life like a king in Spokane. He's not gonna lose his gig.

Mike Wysocki [00:39:13]:
No way, right? He's gonna sit there and just smile and go, oh, yeah, being the vice president of the local bank is the greatest gig ever. We love it. And by the way, you better set up a savings account with us. But right. Retired people could say, you know what? I enjoyed it. And here are the reasons why. Here's what I. And I speak about that the pros and cons of my career.

Mike Wysocki [00:39:34]:
And I go, you know what? I traveled, they paid me well. I had expense account, you guys know, expense account is. It's awesome. Do you know what monotony is? It's called every day in tech sales. It's very boring. And you go chasing a number is, is torture. But again, I didn't prepare. And so that's the life I led and I, I got into and it was money driven only.

Mike Wysocki [00:39:57]:
I wish, like, nothing wrong with selling, but it was something that I enjoyed, you know, maybe things would have been different, you know, I don't know. But then again, on the flip side, maybe I wouldn't be writing books and doing what I'm doing. So I don't know there, Tim, you have to figure that out. Some more psych psychology for you than you need, I'm sure, you know, but.

Tim Newman [00:40:14]:
But you, you know, led you to this, right? Whatever. Whatever it was. Because you do have that passion for it. And I think, at least for me, and I'll just put it from that perspective. When I would talk to people, I would tell them the good and the bad. I love what I did, but this is what I don't like. And there's every career, every profession, you've got your good, the stuff that you like doing, stuff that you don't like doing. And it could be different for everybody.

Tim Newman [00:40:45]:
And as long as you have a passion for it, for whatever it is that you want to do. And I would tell my students, I don't care what career industry you get into. And I come from the sport industry. I said, I don't care, you know, I just want you to go out and be successful in that industry. I want you to be happy, I want you to be successful. I want you to be a good contributing member of society, whatever that is for you. And you have to make some of those decisions. And if you find your passion at 30, great.

Tim Newman [00:41:18]:
If you find it at 20, great. And I can tell you this. If you're passionate, 30 is the same as you're passionate 20, you're probably not doing it right. If you're passionate, 40 is the same as it was when you're 20, you're probably not doing it right. Because as you get older, you start to learn more and you should start to have, you know, know, a broader worldview, a look at, you know what, Let me give this a try. You know what? I really did well over here, but I want to be able to help over here. And so those things should change. And you should know yourself well enough at that point in your life by the time you're 30, by the time you're 40, to be able to notice that and be able to make some of those life changing decisions.

Mike Wysocki [00:42:03]:
Yeah, I mean, and it was funny when I talked to a student one time at one of the schools in New England and I'm like, you know, right before this, the class starts up. So I got a few minutes. I'm just, I was babbling the students in the front row. I'm like, hey, man, what grade are you? What year are you? Senior. Awesome. I go, what do you study in? Account accounting. And I'm like, oh, you know what I read today on the train in was that we're low on CPAs. He goes, I'm not going to accounting.

Mike Wysocki [00:42:26]:
Accounting sucks. And I'm like, whoa. So he just dropped $160,000 to figure that it's out. But, but again, your thought process, what I try to explain to students, like, right, you start off as an accountant, you may be the best accountant in Skokie, Illinois. And then by the time you're 30, you might be a CPA level and you might be the best CPA in Omaha, Nebraska. But as you move forward, you hit 40, you might be a CFO of a technology company in Sunnyvale, California. I go, so that's, that's the trajectory. And also, and by the time you're 50, you might be the CEO, or by then you already, you might be open your own firm or expanding.

Mike Wysocki [00:43:09]:
I go, so it's not. And that's the other thing too. Even in the trades, try to explain to people like, you could be the most awesome carpenter at 20, 22, 25, but you know, you're not gonna stay as a carpenter. You're going to expand. You might open your own practice, or you might be out there being, you know, a builder or designer. I go, there's a I go, there's building conflict is you. Everybody starts somewhere, but they don't end up where they start. I mean your first job, it's not like you're there for, you know, I'm not a quality control analyst of Fidelity that I was 40 years ago.

Mike Wysocki [00:43:41]:
I mean, come on. And so people do bounce. But if you can get a good foundation and find that industry you, you enjoy. I was telling go, you can bounce. Might you start off inside sales. But you know what, you don't have to go to the sales vice president. You might transfer to marketing or operations. I'll give you example.

Mike Wysocki [00:44:01]:
I used to work with this guy. He was a sales manager. He was awful. Worst salesman, one of the worst salesman you ever had. But when it came to operations and to learn the back end stuff, he was Elvis. And I'm, I, I kept on, I'm like, oh, you know, he's gonna say, you know, just man, why don't you just run operations? And in his head he was a sales guy, but he in all the sales guys as he wasn't. And so, you know what I mean, people pick and shoot. I mean probably for, you know, ego, you know, everybody wants to be the top guy, sales guy or whatever.

Mike Wysocki [00:44:28]:
I don't know why, but I mean if you can be great at something, we all are. Go out and do it, find it.

Tim Newman [00:44:35]:
Right?

Mike Wysocki [00:44:36]:
Yeah. And being very successful in wherever you're located is a real joy. Being, being the king of the hill of your industry in your area, that's, that's respectable in my view. I mean maybe students are like, you know what? I don't, I just truly don't care. And that was me. I didn't care. I'm like, you know, I'll just get a job and I'll figure it out. And that's going to just take you years.

Tim Newman [00:44:57]:
Yes.

Mike Wysocki [00:44:58]:
And so it's best to early in the hours tell me brain doesn't fully form until 25. Plus I, you get a lot of time to test the waters, okay? That means go out and get a gig. And I tell them an example that I did when I was going to physical therapy. There was a guy that checked us in on the front, you know, hey, who you know, check you in, your brother go to Lisa, blah blah. And I asked Lisa, I go, I go, well that guy, the check in counter, I go, he's really organized. And she goes, this is what he did. This is my book too. This young man got out of college and he's like, you know what I'M not sure what industry I want to get into.

Mike Wysocki [00:45:32]:
But he narrowed it down to three and he worked four months at each industry to figure out which one was his focus point. So at that time I was in the healthcare side because I was going to healthcare. So that was this. In whatever, healthcare. So again I tell the students that story too. I go, you know what, maybe it's four months, maybe it's six months, maybe it's a year, but at least you shut it. And the other thing too is on interviewing down the road, you tell that to the interview person, say, you know what I was thinking of healthcare and I tried it out, it wasn't my bag. Then I wanted to try what you call it there.

Mike Wysocki [00:46:06]:
Manufacturer, whatever.

Tim Newman [00:46:08]:
Right.

Mike Wysocki [00:46:08]:
And I liked manufacturing and that's why I'm in manufacturing and that's why I'm interviewing with you today for that inside sales gig. And they'll be like, wow, this person has, you know, a thought process. They, you know, you know, so I mean just, just weird little stories like that can almost help out. But you're right, you have to go out and test the waters, right?

Tim Newman [00:46:28]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then be able to tell the story too. You know, this is where I learned this, this is what I did. This is where I learned this. This is what I really, you know, got out of it. And this is how it's going to be able, how it's going to help me in this position or in this industry or whatever it is. Right?

Mike Wysocki [00:46:44]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:46:45]:
So. Well, when you book like too, you.

Mike Wysocki [00:46:48]:
Know, they say, you know what, I like this part about it. I know this transfer. Okay, didn't want to interrupt. What was the question?

Tim Newman [00:46:54]:
When's your new book coming out?

Mike Wysocki [00:46:57]:
Great question. I don't know exactly. But here, here it is right now is, it's with the publisher and all the, all the data, all the information is set. So they, what happens now is. And congratulations on your book by the way. I just noticed.

Tim Newman [00:47:09]:
Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Wysocki [00:47:11]:
So as you know, they're gonna give it a read through and edit it. I mean I've already had a couple editors look at outside of my publisher and so they're going to test it up, I'm hoping early spring or whatever. So that, and then I'm going through the covers and the subtitles is something that we would. Myself and the editor was screwing around the other day. So. Yeah, yeah. So I'm, I'm hoping that. And you know, we'll see.

Mike Wysocki [00:47:34]:
But I'm telling you one thing, it's gonna, it's gonna upset the apple cart. I'll either be loved or hated. So. But again, everybody, in a good and bad way.

Tim Newman [00:47:44]:
Here, here's the thing. The way, the way to look at it, if the people that are upset about it are the decision makers, it's a good thing. You're upset about it now. Maybe something will change. And the people that like it are the ones that it's really meant for. Then you know that you've nailed it. Right. So it's okay that you may have some of those, some of those people.

Tim Newman [00:48:08]:
And that's a, you know, I looked at the same way, you know, for those that aren't are watching this. I was called to the principal's office on a regular basis, you know, called the dean's office because of the way I did things. I said, you know, that's just the way I'm trying to help these students. You may not like the way that I'm doing it, but my students are going to be prepared. They're going to be going to have some of the skills that they need. And it's not that I intentionally want you to be upset with me. It's not that I'm intentionally doing these things to have you upset. But the ultimate result is that my responsibility is to my students.

Mike Wysocki [00:48:47]:
Yeah. And that's how I look at it. I look at. The responsibility is preparing the students for career readiness. And I do take a lot of swings at the foundations out there that are educational foundations, because a lot of them go out there and they ask the same basic questions every year. You know, you know, what's your ethnic background? You know, what's sexy, blah, blah, blah. All the other things like, who cares?

Tim Newman [00:49:13]:
What's that? What does that matter?

Mike Wysocki [00:49:14]:
Seriously? Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:49:16]:
What?

Mike Wysocki [00:49:17]:
Well, and here's the thing about it is, though, I, you know what? This, you know, when I look for statistics about how many students are out there shadowing, there's no statistic. So these people with these multi million dollar foundations that focus on education, they haven't asked that question. And I'm like, really? Is it me? Am I the only person that done it? How many book. Okay, okay, Tim, you want to go into xyz? How many books have you read in that industry? That's a question never been asked before. And so I looked at a lot of them. I'm like, I'm like, really? You know, trade shows. And also, it's a lot of stuff that I, like, asked that. I was, like, befuddled about them.

Mike Wysocki [00:49:55]:
I'm Like I go isn't the. I mean. But then again it comes back to education. Think the job is to educate, not to get people careers. And I'm like well it would be nice if you could help. And they go well we have a career center and only 24, you know, 24% of students attend them. And then another statistics like 75% attend. So which one do you believe? And it just.

Tim Newman [00:50:16]:
Right.

Mike Wysocki [00:50:17]:
So you know what I mean. So it really is a great book for students and parents. Educators as well of course, but for students and parents. So the students and the parents could read the questions and see about what information I dug up. So when this student is in high school or college, how they can prepare for the workforce and it's going to ask some deep stuff. Again we talked about. Have you spoken to people in industry, people that have left industry. It just goes bang, bang, bang, 30 plus questions and thank the Lord I got enough students to go out there and answer these questions throughout the United States at all these different colleges.

Mike Wysocki [00:50:56]:
Yeah. And I didn't. And I went after just like Scott Carlson did and Ned laughed it in hacking college. I didn't go after the top 50. I, I went after, you know, good schools but not any. I don't think there was one in the top 50. I think UMass probably the best, like 65 or something like that. But anyway.

Mike Wysocki [00:51:15]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:51:16]:
Well it's going on all over the country so maybe when the book comes out we can get you back on.

Mike Wysocki [00:51:22]:
Oh that'd be, that'd be awesome. Yeah. I'm all, I'm always, I'm always game to talk about myself. I know it's horrible. I feel bad sometimes people are doing but it's just like you know, when you do things they always want to hear about what you're doing. I mean which is great and all but if I could help the students and it's not about me, it's bigger than me. It's, it's about helping the students prepare for the workforce. And there's a major issue and I constantly.

Mike Wysocki [00:51:50]:
That's, I mean I'm a broken record. But until it gets fixed. I mean it, it's, it's a sucking time for anybody in. Yeah. School right now because they're not getting prepared and industry just bashing them and so what's going on then? People are giving them fear mongering with AI and they did that 20 years ago in nanotechnology but nobody talks about that. Right. You know what I mean? So. And then they did with us with The Internet.

Mike Wysocki [00:52:16]:
The Internet's going to change the world. Yeah, I got more jobs, but, you know, and then they're like, oh, the economy. I'm like, oh, the economy. Some get. Some student wrote the other day, the economy is worse than it's ever been. And I go, okay, I've been around for 40 plus years. We've all gone through ups and downs and ups and downs. I'm like, give it a break.

Mike Wysocki [00:52:34]:
Give it a rest. I go, you know, I mean, so it's like everybody's like a victim of bitching and moaning about something, but just go out there and focus, focus, focus. And I, I mean, I do my best to give the tools and you're doing amazing. I mean, just, you know, public speaking, it's like, for the love of Jesus, dude, go out there and learn public speak. And that's going to set you apart. But anyway.

Tim Newman [00:52:56]:
I get it. We could go on for hours with this stuff. But exactly where's the best place for people to connect with you?

Mike Wysocki [00:53:03]:
Oh, very kind. The easiest one, I always say, is my website, like the name of my book, careersbythepeople.com. you could also do.org.net I own them all. So you can whatever it. Careers by the People. That's my website. That's Great. I'm on LinkedIn.

Mike Wysocki [00:53:20]:
Mike Wysocki. There's only like, you know, one Wysocki over here in Maui, so I'm easy to find that way. My YouTube channel, believe it or not, his name. You got it. Careers by the People. So I'm pretty easy to get a hold of. I do my best to reach out, you know, to the schools and to try to say, like, you know, if you're looking for a speaker, I mean, just work with me. It's just like, what can we do? I speak remotely, you know, virtual.

Mike Wysocki [00:53:47]:
As I say, I go on site, I go on site and I can speak multiple times a day. Because in tech sales, we were trained. Just go out there and get things done, right? So I offer these flexible packages and I'm like, you know what? Let me go out and work with you guys. And so I think the opportunities are there. And, and it's amazing when you call up a school and they're like, oh, no, we have no money. And then you see who they hire as a speaker. You're like, I just, I know you dropped 50 grand on that guy and he gave you one hour. Congratulations, you got ripped off.

Tim Newman [00:54:17]:
And, and a lot of times not helping the students, and a lot of.

Mike Wysocki [00:54:20]:
Times a friend of a friend and stuff like that or, you know, somebody's got, you know, a better haircut or something, who knows? But anyway, thanks. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:54:27]:
Well, Mike, thanks so much for spending some time with us. I really do appreciate it. And you know, I, I enjoy talking with, with, I enjoy talking with people in, in general, but I really enjoy it when, you know, we're, we're really kind of aligned on what we're working towards and love the conversation. And like I said, hopefully we get you back on when, when your new book comes out.

Mike Wysocki [00:54:47]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you, when's yours hitting market there, young man?

Tim Newman [00:54:51]:
Oh, November 13th.

Mike Wysocki [00:54:53]:
Whoa. That's like a week away. But again, when this airs, it's probably later than that.

Tim Newman [00:54:58]:
But yeah, man, it's all right. Thank you.

Mike Wysocki [00:55:02]:
It's feather on the cap, you know, and it's one of those things you can always, it checks the life of boxes, you know, it's like who, everybody wants to publish a book, but only a small percentage of us ever do so.

Tim Newman [00:55:14]:
And it really hits at the heart of some of the things we've been talking about, the networking and how you go about it and making sure that when you are networking that you are doing things that are going to help not just other people, but move you forward. Because networking isn't just about taking from other people. You also have to provide that value. If you don't provide value, people aren't going to remember who you are. So there's, there's a lot of that skill into it. It's not just going to a networking event and collecting business cards. There's so much more to it than that.

Mike Wysocki [00:55:49]:
Without question, without question in follow ups and connections and learn to deal with people. It does a lot. So yeah, all good stuff. Thank you very much.

Tim Newman [00:55:58]:
But you take care and we'll talk to you soon.

Mike Wysocki [00:56:00]:
Mashaloha. Thank you, Tim.

Tim Newman [00:56:03]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and how to Overcome them. You can also register for the Forum for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change your world. We'll talk to you next time.

Mike Wysocki [00:56:17]:
Take care.