Escaping Comfort: How Survival, Communication, and Leadership Shape Success with Said Eshaghi

Tim Newman [00:00:00]:
Most people think comfort means you're doing something right. My guest today is living proof it might mean you've already started losing. Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence Podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, podcast, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach, and I'm thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. Today's guest is Said Ishagi. Said is the founder of Lead beyond and a Maxwell Leadership certified team member and disc consult.

Tim Newman [00:00:45]:
He is the author of his latest book, Escape from Comfort, which is his life story. Turned into life lessons after a successful scientific career, Said rebuilt his professional life twice, transforming into a leadership expert who helps professionals at every stage navigate transitions through his proprietary FAR framework. Said brings analytical rigor, multicultural perspective, and deep empathy to helping leaders communicate effectively and build stronger relationships while navigating through different stages in their lives. Said, welcome to Speaking with Confidence Bud.

Said Eshaghi [00:01:20]:
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Tim Newman [00:01:25]:
So today's conversation is going to be a little bit different, but really kind of in a good way. You know, we're not just going to be talking about communication tactics. We're going to be talking about what happens before people ever open their mouth. And sometimes that could mean the difference between life and death. And so I really want to preface that with the audience because say you've got an incredible story and let me back up for a second just so the audience. Said and I have known each other for a while. We're friends. And I'm so glad he agreed to come on the show and share his story.

Tim Newman [00:02:09]:
Beside. Let's start there. Let's start at the beginning. You're in Iran and your parents made a life changing decision. Tell us about that.

Said Eshaghi [00:02:22]:
Yeah, thanks, Tim. So it was, it was not an abrupt that this is what we're going to do. It was going on for a while. We were talking about it and as, as I was growing older, I was in my early teens, those discussions and conversations started because the war between Iran, Iraq was going on and it was just getting worse and worse. And there was a ban on boys leaving the country as soon as they turned 15. So as I was getting closer to that age, there were different ways they were thinking of getting us out and us, it's me and my brother who is five years older than me. So those conversations were going on and for my brother, my older brother, it was already too late. He was already about 15 and I was approaching so.

Said Eshaghi [00:03:28]:
So it was an ongoing conversation. It started at one point. We got it, we got to do something. Had two siblings already in Europe also there were a lot of people that we could hear about either from distant friends or relatives that they had sent their sons out of the country to save them from. From the regime as well as save them from going to the war. So. But, but at one point it became real because is when I was not 15 years old yet, one of the conversations, one of the ways to do that would be for my mom. I would go together with my mom and we just get a look for.

Said Eshaghi [00:04:17]:
Get a visa or something to go to Sweden to my sister. But it was never, it never became. I don't know the details of that actually. And as time went by then it was. It was just too late for me to. To leave. So then this decided to send me and my brother together on. On that journey by hiring human smuggler so that they could.

Said Eshaghi [00:04:46]:
So we would basically escape. Crossed by crossing the. The border which was the. Between Iran and Iraq and in its pretty rocky, pretty high mountains there.

Tim Newman [00:04:59]:
Yeah, again, obviously this isn't a. It's not an easy trip. It happens again the decision, like I said, it wasn't a split immediate decision, but when it happened, it happened very quickly. Yeah, things started happening very quickly. And talk about your journey and about how you actually ended up getting to Sweden, right?

Said Eshaghi [00:05:32]:
Yeah, absolutely, that. The last part became absolutely abrupt. So although we were. We understood that we were going to go on this, this journey if you will, or this, this escape and pretty unknown. But you know what? One thing about that was also when I think about it today, that how, how naive I was, not really understanding like what is it I'm going. Getting myself into. But yeah, it was, it was. We were supposed to be outside of Tehran for practicing in the mountain so that we would be ready.

Said Eshaghi [00:06:16]:
So that's what the, the smuggler, the contact person told my parents. And. And then that, that day, that night we were getting ready, we had our backpacks, we. But it was just like okay, we're. We're going to be just outside, outside of Tehran and then we're coming back in a few days. But it was not like that because that lady, she wanted. That's what she said. True or false, I don't know.

Said Eshaghi [00:06:49]:
But it was because that she wanted to spare all of us from that dramatic goodbye of literally that. Okay, you know, if we were under the impression that this is it, that tomorrow we're leaving and there's no knowledge of when we're going to see each other, me and my brother and our parents, when we're going to see each other, what's going to happen to us. Actually that could have been really dramatic. So she wanted to spare us on that. So as soon as my parents dropped us off, she told us that we actually heading to the border the next day. And after that. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

Tim Newman [00:07:39]:
Yeah, let's, let's stop there for a second. And that's, that's a, I don't want to diminish anybody's life or trauma or what they've been through, but when, when you start to think about this and how timely this is with what's going on in Iran right now, this is. You're dealing with serious things and you're a child, right. Not knowing. And I kind of understand the smuggler not wanting to have that because I mean, you never know. Number one, if you have that, you don't know if you're gonna see your parents again. Your parents don't know if they're going to see you again. And that trauma of the split, you go in one way and your parents go another way, that could have and would have scarred you as a young child forever and could have even if you made it out and where you are today could have changed your life right from, right from the get go before you, even before you even get started off on the journey.

Said Eshaghi [00:08:34]:
Right? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know, again, the smuggler, she turned out not to be the most truthful person down the road. But yet because of that and the way she, she approached that in, it was never, it was never this cold hearted person, it was never this, all right, now I got you and you're in my control and I can't do whatever I want. Like there was absolutely nothing like that. It felt even more comforting. She had this comforting presence, very motherlike. She talked about her sons and, and that according to her were similar age to us. And that was true because we, at some point she used their passports instead of, to, to, to, to show that we are her sons and that when, that, that's when we were in Turkey.

Said Eshaghi [00:09:37]:
So, but the way that she, she was like we felt comfortable, we felt confident right with her. Obviously our parents had trusted her and the way she painted the picture of, of the possibility of in a few days we're going to be in Turkey, we're going to be out and, and instead of having this heartbreaking moment, your parents and yourselves will be actually happier and you're getting closer to Sweden. And all that brought that positivity, like, all right, let's do this.

Tim Newman [00:10:21]:
And even if she didn't turn out to be the good person that you thought, she still got you out, you still made it across the board. You still made it through Turkey and into Sweden. And so I'm thinking, you know, again, at 15, you don't know what's going on. I mean, you do. You do. You do as much as you can at 15, right? Yeah. But how much. How much of your survival do you think came down to.

Tim Newman [00:10:54]:
To the things that you said versus things that you didn't say?

Said Eshaghi [00:11:04]:
I really got to dig deep there constantly. I have been. When I. When I look back as I was writing the book and it was really reflecting to my childh things that even before the escape, I believe I've always been that positive, looking at things from a positive point of view and before even knowing what positive means and what being positive would be, even at school. So, for example, I had always to be number one, right? Always be the A student and score in every subject. Even the subjects that I hated, including religion, including Quran, Arabic, you know, these were the subjects that I absolutely hated. But I still would score A because it was. It was not about.

Said Eshaghi [00:12:06]:
I don't know exactly what to put. It was basically, I get a win. I get a.

Tim Newman [00:12:10]:
Right, right.

Said Eshaghi [00:12:11]:
Right. Yeah, I get a. I cannot have something to drag the rest of my scores down. And so no matter how much I hate Quran to study it, but I have to be. I have to get an A and have to excel and have to stand out on. On everything. I believe that is the one that has followed me through. Even during the escape.

Said Eshaghi [00:12:37]:
Even during. During the times that, you know, sometimes. Not sometimes, every time we were still in Iran and we were getting closer to a village to. And then where we were supposed to rest, we had to stay on the line of floor, on the ground and in a ditch somewhere so that we're not visible, so that the guide would go to the village, find a home and make it a secure home, pay them whatever, and then send somebody to. To pick us up. And pretty much every time there, it could be that, you know, right. What's the guarantee that somebody's going to come back and pick us up?

Tim Newman [00:13:23]:
Right.

Said Eshaghi [00:13:23]:
We're in the middle of nowhere. Nobody knows where we are and nobody knows us. And I mean, could be us on dogs.

Tim Newman [00:13:34]:
I'm glad you. You can. You can chuckle and laugh a little bit about it now, but I mean, at the time you're right. I mean, it's what would have happened. You lay in there for three days and, all right, I got. I got to go to the bathroom. I got to get some food, but I don't want to. I don't want to get up, right? Because, I mean, you just.

Tim Newman [00:13:53]:
That's the. That's the tough and funny part about all of it. And again, you know, I think about the whole idea of the smuggler, right? If you're a smuggler, first off, I mean, you got. How good of a person can you be to begin with, right? But then you have to trust them. But for you, your parents knew that they had to trust somebody to get you and your brother to safety. So, you know, you have to trust somebody who's not trustworthy. And in the end, that's the dichotomy you got to fight with in your mind to do the right thing. And even still, as you get through Turkey, you get to Sweden, and now you're kind of on your own.

Tim Newman [00:14:54]:
You've got to learn a new language. You've got to learn to trust people that you don't really know, that you have a language barrier with. So, you know, at what point did you realize that you. You're in Sweden that you still can't really express who you are yet? And when did that. When did that finally happen for you?

Said Eshaghi [00:15:19]:
Yeah, I do want. Tim, I do want to address the part about the smuggler. And there. So, I mean, there is this famous quote by Nelson Mandela that when the government, whoever is. Are stripping all your rights from you as. As a human being, then you're not left with doing nothing else other than being outlaw. And if we look back at, you know, Second World War and the famous movie Schindler's List, Schindler was also doing not the right thing based on the current regime of the Nazis, right? But he saved a lot of people. So.

Said Eshaghi [00:16:03]:
So you have. So the actual guides that we were dealing with, the persons that were helping us from village to village, they were actually really good people, nice people, and they help us. They helped a lot of people doing that work, that escape the problem. Usually what we found out was with those that were never really in the trenches either. They were act. So it's because it's a team, right? It's a team of people doing certain things. So the contact person for us, that lady that my parents had trusted and. And talked to, so she was the.

Said Eshaghi [00:16:48]:
She was the lead. She. She would orchestrate the whole thing, but the individuals that were. Were in the trenches were actually walking with us, showing us how to escape, were other people. They were good people versus the people that were never really in the trenches. And they were directly dealing with the money and with the, you know, delivery and all that. The problems were usually with them, with them.

Tim Newman [00:17:18]:
Right.

Said Eshaghi [00:17:19]:
And that's a. That's, you know, and you go back to. To think that, you know, there are good and bad people everywhere. There are good doctors, bad doctors there.

Tim Newman [00:17:28]:
Right.

Said Eshaghi [00:17:29]:
You know, good politicians, bad politicians, while

Tim Newman [00:17:34]:
we're still looking for some good ones right now.

Said Eshaghi [00:17:42]:
So. But. But to. To. To answer to your question, how to trust people after that, what else is there? Like it. If. If we. When I arrived in Sweden, after seeing everything that I had seen during the escape, even before the escape, a couple of weeks that everything was just delaying and things were not going according to the plan.

Said Eshaghi [00:18:12]:
And then that year in Turkey, people that we met from the un, from Turkish police, from other Iranians there, after arriving in Sweden, it became very clear for me that I was now in an environment that was very different, very different from Turkey and very, very much different from Iran in terms of human values, in terms of taking care of people, in terms of actually meaning something helping. And that difference was so enormous that it didn't make any sense to not trust that new environment. And again, being positive, I was drawn to that whole environment. I just wanted to integrate as fast as possible, being one of them, and move forward, move. Run toward where I was planning always, you know, since I was a kid, wanted to get to. So it was. It was not a struggle, actually. It was more of, all right, like, let's go.

Said Eshaghi [00:19:41]:
Like, I'm right, I'm behind. I'm. I'm. I got to catch up. I have things to do.

Tim Newman [00:19:49]:
And. And, you know, I've heard you tell a story about, you know, being in school in Sweden and you had a. A teacher who went out on limb and. And really kind of helped you. Was it. I forget which subject. Was it history?

Said Eshaghi [00:20:04]:
Social studies?

Tim Newman [00:20:05]:
Social studies. Yeah.

Said Eshaghi [00:20:06]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:20:07]:
And. And how. And how that kind of, you know, really kind of changed and shaped your academic career.

Said Eshaghi [00:20:15]:
Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:20:17]:
Just talk briefly about that, because I do want to get into that. Tell everybody that you ended up with a PhD in biology, right. And you wrote biochemistry, and you became one of the top biochemists in the world. But we'll get to that. Talk about social studies as a kid and what that teacher did for you.

Said Eshaghi [00:20:38]:
Yeah, absolutely. I was. You know, I always say that it's one thing to learn a language when you Move to a new country and it's brand new language. And then after a few months, you can order a pizza, you can order a cab, you can talk people. But it's another thing to study in high school at that level. And the class that I was part of, it was, it was pretty smart class. So I had really smart people to compete with. And I didn't know the academic language.

Said Eshaghi [00:21:12]:
I mean, not even the regular language that well. I remember a couple of times in early on as I was talking to my newly made friends and sometimes they were challenging me. And at one point my friend said that, wow, I asked you three questions and you answered all of them. It was not that you only remembered one. And that was. And I remember that was that, wow. Yeah, I did that actually. So I was excelling in my language speaking and understanding capabilities.

Said Eshaghi [00:21:48]:
It was so hard to understand. Okay, now I'm learning about European history, now I'm learning about the culture, Now I'm learning about the social system in Sweden and a lot of things that were new to me by default now in a new language. And now I have to do tests on those and I have to compete with people that are grown up there. It was just like layers of the layers of, layers of. And so the problem was that several subjects that I always excelled in Iran I was having problems with because I was not just studying that subject, I was also challenging by their language. So I was being graded not based on my subject proficiency, but also my language proficiency on a different subject than Swedish. So but this teacher, she understood that and she really didn't want me to have because of that handicap. She didn't want that to be, to, to be the determining factor for how she's going to grade me.

Said Eshaghi [00:23:02]:
And at one point when I was still struggling, I couldn't get more than a D constantly on that subject. She's had the test verbally and for the first time I got a C in social studies. And that's when she's like, ah, Said, I got you. You understand the question. When I explain them to you, you understand them much better. And then she started having only verbal tests for me. So every time she gave us a test, she brought another teacher to watch the rest of the class. And then she took me to another room and we had my test verbally.

Said Eshaghi [00:23:42]:
And by the time. And then also another thing she did was that I had an F like the first year in social studies, but she disregarded that even second year. I think my grades were like C at most, but it was Mostly in the third year that I really, I was doing well and are getting Bs. And she gave me my final subject in social studies at B. So she disregarded those years that she saw that I was actually getting better. She saw the improvement. Whereas my chemistry teacher, which, I mean, that was my subject, that's something that I, that I was passionate about. And I was constantly getting A's on that because the first year I got a C in chemistry, she gave me a B.

Said Eshaghi [00:24:34]:
So that was such a distinguished difference between how a teacher is actually helping somebody with, with, with moving on in their lives and succeeding and somebody is just blind. But okay, you know, these are, these are the things I have. I have to check these boxes.

Tim Newman [00:24:56]:
Yeah. And that's, you know, I think that's critical for, for people to understand that, that, that perspective of it and to. Let's take that as a step further now, now being where you are and looking back on that situation, how did that experience shape the way you communicate today with people who struggle to express themselves?

Said Eshaghi [00:25:23]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:25:23]:
So reverse those roles, right?

Said Eshaghi [00:25:27]:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. When I'm looking back, it was not something that was directly thinking about when I was, you know, becoming a scientist and a principal investigator, an associate professor and all that, as I was helping other PhD students at that point, I didn't reflect to that. Oh yeah, my social studies teacher did this to me. I owe it to dude to move it, pass it on forward. But I believe it was, it was carried with me because when I was reflecting as on that down the road, like, my gosh, like if it wasn't for her, I hadn't been able to even get into chemistry program, or maybe it would have been a delay or I don't know what would have happened. But, you know, what she did was so instrumental. So when I was helping my PhD students, people that I was supervising, I really made sure that I'm actually there with them because of the things that I remember that I struggled with.

Said Eshaghi [00:26:30]:
And I wanted to build them up from that part, the parts that I didn't get help myself on when I was a PhD student. I wanted to provide it to them so that they have, they have a better, better way of, of really learning how to write a research article, how to write a report, how to express results, you know, all those things. So when I'm looking back at it, it is, it is from that, that part. And now that I am, my, my mission is now to help people getting out of where they are to where they want to be. It is, it Becomes even more that. I constantly think about that. Yet my social studies teacher, she didn't need to do that. She could have been like any other teacher, just checking the boxes.

Said Eshaghi [00:27:24]:
So I don't do that either. I make sure that I take the extra step, extra mile, and then. Let's see where we go from there. Without having that type of agenda that. What's in it for me?

Tim Newman [00:27:43]:
Yeah. And I think as we. As we do the work that you and I are doing, you know, a lot of people, they have the feeling that. That there's more, that there's something there, but they don't know how to. How to get to it. They don't know how to dig deep to it. They don't know how to express it. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:28:01]:
And having the experience that you had with this, it's. I think that helps and makes it a lot easier to help people find that, you know, whatever it is to dig deeper or to ask the right questions, to be able to get that and pull it out so that we can help them get from point A

Said Eshaghi [00:28:17]:
to point B. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Tim Newman [00:28:22]:
So during the transition, you know, from Iran to Sweden, you know, in school, what was the dominant voice in your head? Was it fear? Was it confidence? Was it survival? Was it something else? What was that dominant voice that was in your head?

Said Eshaghi [00:28:40]:
It was. It was about ending up and, you know, think of a. Think of a better place. Think of. Okay, I was daydreaming a lot. Let me put it this way. And I was seeing myself. I am.

Said Eshaghi [00:29:00]:
I'm in Sweden. I'm studying. This is all gone. And I have this. You know how in movies when they. When they have like something going on and then. And then there is this sound, like there's this violin sound and then. And then changes the scenes is like 10 years later, you know?

Tim Newman [00:29:24]:
Yes.

Said Eshaghi [00:29:24]:
And then there's a new. I was playing that in my head, playing that violin, like, you know, big orchestra sound that. And now, like two years later and, and, and, and I'm there. And so it. So that moment when I was sitting in a cold room inside, you know, in a suburb, you know, freezing and all that, but thinking of that, no, it is going to be better, right? I will be somewhere else. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:30:00]:
And so, you know, I'm just kind of thinking that as I hear that you're the thoughts in your head that you want to go from survival to leading and thriving. Right. You're. You know, we're. Right now I'm just. I get it right now. I'm just. I'm Just getting by.

Tim Newman [00:30:21]:
I'm just getting by. But soon, eventually, this is. It's all going to be in the past. I'm going to be at this level. And the reality was that happened for you. I mean, you went from survival mode to earning a PhD faster than most people could ever even imagine. And like I already mentioned, you grew to the top of your profession really, really quickly. Talk about that and, you know, to.

Tim Newman [00:30:52]:
To kind of input some of these things here. You know, you and I have talked about communication and how sometimes, especially people in academia, you know, that. That type a high performance. We. We've got to. We've got to move through this and we use communication as a sledgehammer sometimes. Talk about those, those things with you and how you went again from survival to excelling. And in that.

Said Eshaghi [00:31:17]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, first of all, communication itself, it was being able to properly communicate. And everybody may have their own level of, you know, what is a proper communication. And that's okay for me, exactly as you said for me was I don't want. I don't want the communication itself. How I. How I talk to people, what's going on in my head to be a handicap. So I was determined, first of all, when I got to Sweden to speak like a native Swedish.

Said Eshaghi [00:32:04]:
It was nothing else. It was. I didn't want to have. I didn't want to have the foreign accent. I didn't want to have, you know, any of those. Yes, I have a. My hair is black, I'm Middle Eastern. Like, all of that.

Said Eshaghi [00:32:18]:
That's okay, but I don't want to. I want to have that. I want to make that impression that, that people would say that, oh, wow, you speak so well. And that was exactly what I was receiving. And that is part of that because. Because again, you know, back in Iran, even. Even if I was studying Islam and I hated it, I was still getting an A. When I was studying Quran, I was getting an A.

Said Eshaghi [00:32:50]:
So. Because I guess it was part of. Always part of my identity. I have to be the best. I have to have to succeed. Like, I. To win. Right? So.

Said Eshaghi [00:32:59]:
And that part would. That was something that was a driving force for me that, no, I'm gonna speak just like them. If they talk on the phone with me, they wouldn't tell. Right. And I succeeded with that. But then, because I get a win, I felt that I had lost one year in Turkey because of the weight. And then when I arrived in Sweden, I lost another year because I was studying Swedish to become really proficient and be able to Start high school. So constantly for years I saw myself that I have lost two years of my life and I have to catch up.

Said Eshaghi [00:33:44]:
I was two years older than my classmates in high school. That's why I could buy them alcohol, because that was the legal age to buy.

Tim Newman [00:34:00]:
So you did have a purpose.

Said Eshaghi [00:34:02]:
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, and that was fun to be a dealer in school. But, but because of that, I, I always felt that I have to catch up. I have to, I have to, have to run faster. I have to, have to win back the time that I lost. And which was again part of that, you know, I'm, I got to win and if I'm, if I'm behind by two years, I'm losing. So.

Tim Newman [00:34:30]:
Right.

Said Eshaghi [00:34:32]:
So that was, I use that as fuel to, to absolutely push myself to the maximum and, and, and not just become one of the ones that I looked up to, but really be. Reach that recognition of that. Okay, yeah, I did it. I made up the time.

Tim Newman [00:35:01]:
Yeah, and you did. And again you rose to the top of your field in a very difficult research based area. Right. I mean you've. What I do, you don't have to be rocket science. I mean, I mean it's. You, you know, my background is in sport, market and public relations. I mean you, you, you could start talking to me and my eyes would glaze over.

Tim Newman [00:35:26]:
I have no idea what you're talking about. That's, that's smart people right there. And, and, but did you find as you, as you started to, to really progress in that field, in the STEM field, that people truly struggle to communicate outside of that technical bubble so you could talk to each other, but when you want to go and talk to somebody outside of the STEM field about what you're doing or to write grants or to present things, how much struggle did you see there?

Said Eshaghi [00:36:00]:
Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, I have always been very mindful of that. And we had one professor, he then became the head of the Nobel Committee for Chemistry. He was an amazing professor, an amazing educator and communicator. And the way every time he taught something you understood, like when he was in the classroom and he explained about a very, again, a complex subject, you, you could see it. You, you, you, he, he would explain in a way that you would visualize it. And somebody actually asked him about that, that how, how are you so good? I mean he was infamous for, I mean he was very famous for that. But.

Said Eshaghi [00:36:53]:
And then he said that years ago he. Study like, like almost like courses. But, but for public and on radio about Biochemistry about proteins, about how, you know, things work. So, so giving, giving such presentation on radio to public made him to really dig deep and find ways to how to explain, explain something complex in a way that normal person, I mean non scientist person can understand without even seeing it by just hearing it. And, and that was an inspiration for me to, to make, to make it simple to make certain things simple enough that being mindful that okay, you know, he's my best, best friend and I, you know, but he has no idea about my world. So if I'm going to explain something, what are the words I'm going to use so that it becomes easier for him to get an understanding and not, not going to do the work necessarily, but just have an understanding that oh, okay, so this is, this is what you do. I don't know if I always succeeded with that, but that was, that was something that I was actually mindful of.

Tim Newman [00:38:18]:
Yeah. And that's a, you know, that's a, that's a really good principle for everybody to truly understand. You've got to be able to communicate your message so that you know, a sixth grader could understand, an eighth grader could understand it. If, if you want to, if, if you want to build influence, leadership.

Said Eshaghi [00:38:36]:
Right?

Tim Newman [00:38:36]:
You, you, they've got to be able to, to, you've got to be able to condense that message to a point that everybody can understand it. And now here's the downside to that. You know, and you and I talked about this a little bit before we started the whole, the whole idea of, of that you talk about in chapter 12 of your book Mind Laundering. Yeah, right now, now what I'm talking about now isn't mind laundering, but it's, this is where it really kind of starts. So we take, we take the big picture and we condense it to something smaller. But, but, but talk to us a little bit about the, your. I know we've jumped forward a bunch of years but about how you got to that point point and you realize some of the things that you realized and came up with this term. Mind laundering.

Said Eshaghi [00:39:30]:
Yeah. So let me go back then to tell the story about when I was 17 and I wanted to kiss a pretty girl in Sweden. And so because, because this is all, this is how it is. This is how I believe mind laundry works and that we talk about, we always talk about brainwashing as that, okay, this person is brainwashed. But I believe that yes, that, that that happens. There are people that have been brainwashed, but even the word itself, like its brain has Been washed. Like there are like it could be removed of any principles, any values, any what, what quality. Like all that can be have been washed and replaced with something that the person that wants to be in control, a dictator, whatever it is, is using.

Said Eshaghi [00:40:33]:
And like, okay, this is all you need to know. But that is an extreme case when it, when it goes to, to brainwashing mind Laundry is something that is done on a daily basis for, you know, in different ways. Just because if a person wants to reach their own agenda and doesn't need to work much on years of propaganda, years of my brainwashing, all that it could be done. So, so I was, I was at a friend's house and this Again, I was 17 years old. My friend, 17 years old, more or less. And his second cousin, something like that, somebody that he knew came. He was in his late 20s, I think, and he looked already to be a little bit stoned and he had six pack with him and start to, you know, drinking and start to ask me questions about, about me and my life and all that. And, and then, and then when I talked to him about a little bit about what did, then he's like, oh my God.

Said Eshaghi [00:41:41]:
Yeah, yeah, I have, I have a lot of traumas as well. So he started suddenly and he was a little stoned, little drunk, all that together. He talked about all his life traumas, his rehab thing, he car accident. He had, you know, hospitalization. He was like, all of that. I was just listening. And for me was that no matter who it is and what they say, as long as it is Swedish speaking and I'm training my Swedish, I'm like, all right, good, let's talk. So I, I was enjoying it from that point of view, but.

Said Eshaghi [00:42:14]:
And then later on, my friend, his, one of his female friends called and said, hey, you know, come over. I have some of my friends here, my parents are not home, we can have a little party. So the three of us were, went there and there, there were three girls there and one of them was really pretty and like, I, I, I would, I mean, I would love to.

Tim Newman [00:42:37]:
We know 17 boys are thinking, say exactly, exactly.

Said Eshaghi [00:42:40]:
I was just 17.

Tim Newman [00:42:41]:
Yes.

Said Eshaghi [00:42:42]:
So, but, but then I'm thinking like, okay, I'm, you know, I what how to make a move and all that. And I thought, okay, you know what? They see me as a foreigner. They see me, they, they don't understand my background. I'm going to use that. So I said that, you know what? I can read your poems and tell your fortune. I learned that from my Grandpa. And they're all laughing my face. And I'm still playing on that role.

Said Eshaghi [00:43:08]:
And I tell the girl, do you want me to read your palm? She's like, no, I don't want you to do that. And then this guy, he was there, he was already drunk. It's like, yes, I read my hand, like, oh my God, that was. No,

Tim Newman [00:43:25]:
it doesn't work on you. It doesn't work on you.

Said Eshaghi [00:43:29]:
But then I thought that, okay, he may not remember. He may remember. I'm just going to take my chances. So I started telling him everything that he, few hours ago, already told me about his past. I started to tell him all those things and he was looking at, oh my gosh, where is the car accident? He believed every single word I was saying. And now it's like, okay, so what's going to happen in the future? Well, now I have him. I can tell whatever I want. And I did tell whatever I wanted.

Said Eshaghi [00:44:05]:
And he's like, oh my gosh, when is this going to happen? Like, And I was just making things up. And now all the girls were actually engaged and looking like they believed that I actually could rate his hand. I just met him and they saw that I just met him and they saw that he's like, oh my God, he's. You are actually a palm reader. And now I was able. Like, I told the girl, do you want me to raise your palms? Like, okay. And of course, we ended up making out after that, which was great. But the point is, I did all that for my own personal agenda.

Said Eshaghi [00:44:41]:
I couldn't do any of those things, but I used the situation, something that he knew, and I used that in order to create that credibility for myself. And then when I created that, then I could do whatever I wanted. And the audience also believed that. And that is. That is how mind laundry works. It just takes. It's. And I, And I use that word because it's of the money.

Said Eshaghi [00:45:14]:
Laundry, right? Money launderers, they take a bad money from a bad activity and mix it with something that is good and mix it and then put it out there so that you can't tell the difference. That's basically money laundry and mind laundry, the same thing. I have my own intentions with, mixed with something that may be okay, maybe good and maybe positive. I'm helping this person with his future, right? Telling his future. But I just wanted to kiss a girl. When it comes to propaganda, when it comes to politics, when it comes to an organization, a culture, like anything that they have their own agenda, but then they can mix it with something that we believe in. Like, for example, right. Nobody wants to pay extra tax or the tax dollars need to be used for our schools and why are we using it for war? Why are we doing this and that.

Said Eshaghi [00:46:22]:
And of course, nobody wants to use money for war. No human, like no normal person want to do that. And people want to. To money to be used for the roads, for the schools, for hospitals, et cetera, et cetera. But leaving and then once, once you have that audience that oh, okay, yeah, I'm listening now you can come with your agenda of, of false information. That's the, that's when you're laundering the mind of a person that still has their values. They have their, they have their mind. Right.

Said Eshaghi [00:47:00]:
They are good people, but you have got them in a way of thinking that whatever is going on is, Is not good because it's not of the, of the person saying those words. It's not according to their agenda. And they want to. To change people's mind with, with playing with the way that they communicate with people. And they're very confident. They are. They can be very strong in, in their message. They could.

Said Eshaghi [00:47:37]:
They are actually good communicators in that regards. They can connect, but it is all about the intention behind it.

Tim Newman [00:47:45]:
Yeah, yeah. And. And you said a lot of really good points there. I mean, the first thing that jumps out of me is they can connect with you. Right. If you can connect with somebody and you build that, that rapport, that relationship, it makes whatever it is that you're talking about or communicating about that much more accepted and less questioned, less. I wouldn't say thought, rational thought, but maybe we don't actually, you know, maybe we don't give it any more thought than that. Yeah, yeah.

Tim Newman [00:48:25]:
This person is a friend. They're smart. They know about these things. So I'm not going to question them. They may say some things that, that sound right. And then we're just, and then we're just going to go with it.

Said Eshaghi [00:48:37]:
Yeah, yeah. And they may even. They may even quote or, or give trainings or, or talk about people such as John Maxwell, such as Tony Robbins, such as Dean Graziosi, like people that are leaders out there making a positive change in the world and, and in a way associating themselves with them, but having their own agenda. So, so that it's kind. Kind of like, okay, now, now when I got you, now when I have your. Your. You under and. And gra.

Said Eshaghi [00:49:22]:
And it's not done abruptly. It's gradually to the point that, that you may even end up feeling bad about not pleasing that person. Person.

Tim Newman [00:49:34]:
Yeah.

Said Eshaghi [00:49:35]:
Because you think that that person has, has good ideas, good, good. Good mission, good vision, and you want to be part of that. And if, but then there are things that you suddenly feel this is, this is not. This doesn't really sound right, but because of the whole wraparound thing, it makes you feel that maybe it is me, maybe I am thinking maybe I'm doing something wrong. Yeah. You.

Tim Newman [00:50:06]:
Somewhere. Right.

Said Eshaghi [00:50:06]:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that goes with, you know, with religion as well. It. It could be that how the religious leaders that, like Islamic regime is a big example of that, that utilizes people's belief, they. Their faith, they. How they. What values they have, being a good person.

Said Eshaghi [00:50:29]:
And. But then they are. They are utilizing it and in a way that they wanted. Of course, now they have gone so much extreme that when you're outside, you can see it, but when you're inside of that whole machinery, it can sometimes be hard to tell. And that's why, for example, in Iran, it has taken for over four decades for more and more people to really understand what the true nature of these people are, is, and, and really be completely against whatever ideology they have to be to understand that it is not good. Whatever that is, whatever they call it, it is not good.

Tim Newman [00:51:19]:
It's not good. Right. And. And doesn't truly align with what they say it truly aligns with.

Said Eshaghi [00:51:26]:
Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:51:27]:
That's. And that's, that's, you know, that, that's the, to me, that's the rub, you know, And I look at it from. From kind of that same perspective of, you know, you. You've been taught something your entire life, whether, you know, whether it's religion or politics or what have you, and then you take a step back and something doesn't seem right. And then you try and match it up, right, with what you, what you know or what you think you know about what has been going on, what people have been saying. And there's no way to make congruent. Right. It keeps missing.

Tim Newman [00:52:06]:
It's. You can't line it up no matter. No matter what it is. And then as soon as you are the one that ask the question, why does it not line up? Excuse me. But then you become the asshole.

Said Eshaghi [00:52:19]:
Yeah, exactly.

Tim Newman [00:52:20]:
Excuse me. Excuse me.

Said Eshaghi [00:52:21]:
But that's exactly what it is. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:52:24]:
And all you're trying to do is make sense of something, to understand something, understand a concept, understand a theory, understand why, why this is the way that it is, why people think that way. And just because you've asked the question. Now you're the one that's the problem when. No, you're not really the problem. Yeah, yeah, this is the problem that it's, it's, it's the fable. The emperor has no clothes.

Said Eshaghi [00:52:50]:
Exactly. Exactly.

Tim Newman [00:52:51]:
That's what it is.

Said Eshaghi [00:52:52]:
Exactly. Yeah. And. And a lot of things there is. The consequences are, you know, when it comes to, when it comes to religion itself, the consequence are of, like, okay, if you, if you don't follow what we say, because this is what, you know, our religion says and God says and all that. And, and then you go to hell if. Well, we don't know if that's true or not. Right.

Said Eshaghi [00:53:24]:
And we have to end up there first. And, and good luck with, with coming back and sue the person like, oh, you're right. And the same thing can even be extended to the part that with these cults, with these organizations, with these, you know, whether it's politics, again, the religious leaders in that regards, is that they can go and extend it to the point that even if you immediately, like, I did what you asked me to do and it was wrong. You did it wrong. You did it wrong. It's on you see, I'm doing it right and I'm. Look at me. So it's on you.

Said Eshaghi [00:54:12]:
And now they start to take away your confidence, your. And that's one thing that I started to really lose. I mean, again, being at that winner mindset, being that person. Person that, you know, no matter what obstacles I was going, overcoming them one after the other. But those years, they started to really strip me off the, the confidence that I had in myself that like, like, it must be me. Like. And, and I start to, to think of other ways of, of correcting it. And of course, time passes by.

Tim Newman [00:54:54]:
Yeah. And I'm glad you went down that road because, you know, on one level. Let's get back. You were at the highest level of your profession.

Said Eshaghi [00:55:09]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:55:10]:
And the bottom kind of fell out. And like you said, it was made to feel like it was your fault.

Said Eshaghi [00:55:21]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:55:21]:
It was.

Said Eshaghi [00:55:22]:
You.

Tim Newman [00:55:22]:
You did it wrong. You. Yeah. You know, whatever it is. And I. How did you. And you've got responsibilities at this point. Right? I mean.

Tim Newman [00:55:34]:
Yeah, you were. You had your family, you had. You just moved back to, to San Diego. You've been back for maybe a year or two, and you brought some PhD students with you. And for those that don't understand that responsibility, that's, That's a big. It's. They're like your family. They feel like your family.

Tim Newman [00:55:57]:
You're you're responsible for them, you're responsible for taking care of them. You're responsible for getting them through one of the toughest processes in education. How did you handle that? How did, how did that shape you? How did that evolve to you? And looking back on where you are now, what would you have done differently?

Said Eshaghi [00:56:21]:
So I didn't handle it well at all. I handled it exactly the way you are not supposed to do 100%. And. The reason was that because. Because. And I really spent quite a bit of time on digging deep there. And I came to the point that it was me growing my success and again, the winning mindset. And no matter what I do, whatever I put my finger on, I succeed.

Said Eshaghi [00:57:03]:
I can do it. Like, just give me a challenge done right. That created a strong. It was my ego that took over that I am, it's me. I am good. I can achieve everything. And without understanding whatever, what I've done to get there instead is like, no, I, I can make anything look easy. Whatever I do.

Said Eshaghi [00:57:39]:
I, I shouldn't have been into science. I should have been into something that makes me more money. So that, that's. So all those thoughts started to, to come to me and become louder and louder because, because of personal development was like, I was not really. At best, this is what John Maxwell says, at best, I was growing accidentally.

Tim Newman [00:58:06]:
Yes.

Said Eshaghi [00:58:07]:
Not intentionally anything. And because of that, so accidental growth, you may or may not realize it. And the only way to realize it is actually to reflect on it, which I didn't. So anything for me that happened that brought me there was. Was actually because of the lack of personal development. It became like a hollow. It was a, it was an empty growth. It was a bubble that I created for myself.

Said Eshaghi [00:58:39]:
And, and that became, that was the reason that it was, you know, ego says it's all about you. And I. It was all about me. So when I wanted to leave, move away from science and start in real estate and make money and all that, well, I didn't have time for my PhD students and well, I fought myself to where I was on my own way. So now it's up to them to do that. So. Bye. Like, you're, you're, you're not going to stop me from where I want to go.

Said Eshaghi [00:59:11]:
For me, for me. And, and when you stop growing as a person, then you become. Your ego grows more and more and more. Yep. And. And because, and it was, it was a lot because of that that everything else started to move, you know, that one degree change of direction. And then after Some time I was. I was in a place that I didn't recognize me.

Said Eshaghi [00:59:45]:
I didn't recognize what I was doing. You know, back in. When I was for example in Turkey. I knew that I was not supposed to be there. I mean like or it was not my final. Like this was right. I'm there because of it is. But I don't belong there.

Said Eshaghi [01:00:07]:
I belong somewhere else else and. But I knew where I was going. I was going to Sweden. I was going to pursue with my career but my academic and reaching my goals, become a scientist and all that. But even if I was sleeping in a hostel with 50 other people, random people like I knew that. No, no, this is, this is temporary. I don't belong here. It's not like tomorrow I come back here.

Said Eshaghi [01:00:36]:
No, it's not going to happen. When I was in those years that I was thinking I saw myself being back in that hostel with 50 people that. And I. But the problem was that I didn't know where I was going. I knew that I didn't belong there, but I didn't even know what I was going. And that was. That was a scary moment. And you know, that's the part that I'm.

Said Eshaghi [01:01:04]:
All that that I talk about in my book that there are two kinds of people. There are those who run. Everybody is running. You know, since we're born, we run until we die. But some people are running towards something. They have a goal, they have a purpose. They. They clear they're.

Said Eshaghi [01:01:25]:
That's what keeps them positive. Vic VICTORIOUS There are your winners. They. They look at the possibility what they can have, what they have and what more they can have. And then there are people that are running away from something and they have nowhere to run to. They just run away.

Tim Newman [01:01:45]:
They're just running.

Said Eshaghi [01:01:46]:
Leave something. They just keep running and. But they're lost. They're victim minded. There's always somebody else's fault. They focus on what they don't have. They. It's.

Said Eshaghi [01:01:58]:
It's something that they. Yeah, they don't want to be where they are, but they don't know where they want to be.

Tim Newman [01:02:03]:
Right.

Said Eshaghi [01:02:04]:
And, and that is. I was in my early years in Sweden, like my life until I was associate professor, I was running toward my goal, my everything that I wanted to achieve. But when I reached there and because the personal growth wasn't there, I started running away from something. I started running away from not having that prestige that I had created in my head or the income level that I created in my head or the lifestyle that I had created in my head. And, and the more I was running away then I, then the, the more distant I was from my, my actual purpose. So those years that I was not sure what I was doing, but I just had to do it. Right. I really didn't have a goal.

Said Eshaghi [01:02:58]:
I didn't have it. I was running away from not being in that situation. That's how myself. With no direction.

Tim Newman [01:03:12]:
No direction.

Said Eshaghi [01:03:12]:
Yeah, exactly.

Tim Newman [01:03:13]:
And you know, you, you talk about one degree. One, one degree doesn't sound like much, right? Over a short period of time.

Said Eshaghi [01:03:21]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [01:03:23]:
One degree over an extended period of time. You've, you're, you're, you're way off course.

Said Eshaghi [01:03:32]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [01:03:33]:
So it doesn't have to be like you took a sharp left turn. It could be one degree eventually takes you so far away from where you are or where you think you're supposed to be, where you're supposed to go. Yeah. You're lost. And I think part of the problem is, you know, you bring up something. You know, when we're younger, we're never taught this. We're not taught about leadership. We're not taught about, you know, true communication.

Tim Newman [01:03:58]:
We're not taught about connection and community and those things that are what bind us and help us grow. And we find these things out when they smack us in the face. And if we. Sometimes it's too late. Right. And there's nothing that you can do about it. And you're at a place where now it's a real problem. We're not taught about this as young people.

Tim Newman [01:04:32]:
It's not taught in schools, it's not taught in our households. It's not even really taught in church. Right. And that's some of the things that we're trying to do and what we're doing now. But if you, for someone in their 20s right now who feels like you felt. What's the first uncomfortable conversation that they need to have

Said Eshaghi [01:05:00]:
goes back to. I mean, that's what the FAR framework is really about. It, it doesn't really need to be a tough conversation, wouldn't it, it, it's more of a wake up conversation or realizing, I mean at that age they are awake. But it's all about realizing the most important part that they never should lose focus on. And that is something beyond themselves. That is something that, and it doesn't have to be like, I want to change the world, but it's got to be. If as long as it is, it contains us, then it is, then ego can become a problem. Not that it always becomes a problem, but that it can be potentially problem.

Said Eshaghi [01:06:00]:
And unfortunately, the more success that person will have, the, the bigger are the risks for ego to take over. So when it is. But if it's bigger than us, then, then. And if it always kept like that, then potentially we would never reach it in a good way because it's all about that stretch. It's about like, how far can I go and how much can I stretch? And I mean, Tony Robbins example of, you know, wanted to help a few families to have food, and now there are millions of people. Right? Or I don't know. But over the time he has helped millions of people.

Tim Newman [01:06:44]:
Yes, he has. Yeah.

Said Eshaghi [01:06:45]:
Yeah, right. So, so and, and, and there's like, okay, so how many people can we help in one year? So now, now it's stretching constantly, constantly stretching. And because it's bigger than him and, and it doesn't need to be again, that huge, that much bigger from where we currently are. Right. So. And because it is, we got to look at it something that is bigger, we need to grow to that. So it is the growth toward that purpose that needs to lead. Anything else is the wrong leader is the wrong.

Said Eshaghi [01:07:25]:
Why. It's the false why It's a what, whether it's an income, whether it's a position, whether it's a degree, whether it's a career, whatever that is. If that is the lead. What. That's what's leading. It can become a false.

Tim Newman [01:07:41]:
Why, yes, absolutely. You know, and again, so much wisdom there. I talk to people about, you know, we can't truly affect what's going on on a, on a, on a big scale as an individual. You're just, you can't. I mean, it's, it's. If you think that you can. Again, that's going back to, to your ego. It's going back to who you think that.

Tim Newman [01:08:09]:
You know, I always laugh the question, who do you think you are? I know exactly who I am. But, but that's a different, different story. I look at it at a much more simple piece, like kind of like the pebble in the water, you know, can you affect somebody sitting next to you? Can you affect your neighbor? Can you, can you help them? And then hopefully they do the same thing and then that ripple effect goes, goes wide. But it's. We need to get back to. Or we need to start teaching young people these thoughts and concepts so that they don't have to go through what you went through, what I went through, because I've been smacked in the face with some of the same things as You. We've talked about some of those things. And again, it goes back to you.

Tim Newman [01:09:03]:
Who do you think you are? Well, I know who I thought I was. Right. And then reality set in. And that's part of it. I want you to talk about your book. Throughout this conversation, we've talked about your book without actually talking about your book. So talk about your book a little bit. I want everybody obviously to go out and get it and read it because.

Tim Newman [01:09:37]:
It's a powerful statement in and of itself. I like how you take your life story and, and, and craft it in a way that can help other people. So talk about your book a little bit.

Said Eshaghi [01:09:53]:
Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Tim. The idea, I don't know how much, but the idea came to me a few years ago, almost five years ago, and, and with the title. So I already had a title and it, but it was, it was still about me. It was still like, I got to tell my story. I want to, I want to like. Because every time I tell.

Said Eshaghi [01:10:19]:
Told people a little bit about that, they were like, oh my God, that's fascinating. You should write a book. And I guess actually thinking about it. So I had the title already, but it was after I started actually writing it that it started because. And that is the R part of the FAR framework, the reflection part is. And John Maxwell talks about that, that that's really where growth happens.

Tim Newman [01:10:46]:
Right.

Said Eshaghi [01:10:48]:
So as I was really thinking about my life, things, you know, the decisions that I made, things that I did, how I approach things. And. And then in spite of everything, in spite of. Spite of being this victorious minded person, positive minded person, winning minded person, always wanted to do better and good and all that, I ended up destroying all that. What happened? And it was a good friend of mine that read one of the early versions of the book that pointed out that Hits was not really the. It was not that cultish organization that became your fault. It was before that. And that's when I started like, yes, she's right.

Said Eshaghi [01:11:42]:
And I started to really look back and I went all the way. And an obvious point would have been that it was my decision to leave science and start real estate. That was the pivotal moment. But it was way before that. It was the decision that I made to move from Singapore to, to San Diego.

Tim Newman [01:12:07]:
Yeah.

Said Eshaghi [01:12:08]:
And that was going back to that one degree because I was still, obviously I was still on the same path that I was before because I came here, became a faculty at Scripps Research Institute. So I was still a scientist. But I always say that the reason when I really dug deep and reflected on this really deeply. I found out that the reason that I got my PhD, that I was successful as a scientist, that I moved to Singapore and got that position was different from the reason I moved to San Diego. And the reason I moved to San Diego was prestige. It was not doing good for the world and that was the 1 degree difference. So that's really the. That's really the essence of.

Said Eshaghi [01:13:04]:
Of the book. It's. It's all about making decisions.

Tim Newman [01:13:11]:
Decisions. Yeah.

Said Eshaghi [01:13:13]:
And it's all. And it's also about courage of doing difficult things, including admitting your biggest mistake, taking ownership for that. And I don't want to say I'm courageous, but that's something that I got from my parents. So. But. But that is. It is uncomfortable to. And it can be something for a bad relationship that you may have given this beautiful picture of your relationship, but to everybody else, but you're actually living in hell and admitting and taking ownership that.

Said Eshaghi [01:13:52]:
Yeah, no, this is. I need to move on from this.

Tim Newman [01:13:55]:
Right.

Said Eshaghi [01:13:56]:
That is escaping from a comfort from a false comfort that is just holding you there. It can be that. It could be that type of nuance in the comfort. What is comfort is something that is easy.

Tim Newman [01:14:14]:
Yeah, we like that comfort.

Said Eshaghi [01:14:17]:
Right.

Tim Newman [01:14:19]:
And the more you get, the easier. The more you get, the harder it is to get out of it.

Said Eshaghi [01:14:23]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. I can be nerdy on that and even run, you know, from biology point of view view. You know, when. When we have. I think most people have heard of. Of antioxidants that they are good and. And the antioxidants are basically the. The help person to not get diseases or cancer those things.

Said Eshaghi [01:14:54]:
So it's actually. It's about antioxidant the oxygen atoms, not the molecules, but the atoms. And there are. Once they're by themselves, they're very radical and they can destroy things. But then there is a stage in the body that like poison fat. These things when they need to be excreted from the body from removed. They need to. Of.

Said Eshaghi [01:15:26]:
They need to go through a state of. From being like fat to water. Water ish. To. To be solved in fat to just be solved resolved in water. That stage creates these oxidants and that stage is a dangerous stage that can actually create diseases. If it hits a DNA then it can be really bad about consequences. But the body goes through that to get rid of the bad thing.

Said Eshaghi [01:16:03]:
It has to go through something more uncomfortable, more dangerous to be able to get rid of that pretty much like what's going on in Iran right now. In Iran right now.

Tim Newman [01:16:19]:
And, and our prayers are with those people and hopefully that they're going to come out on the right side of this, the good side of this.

Said Eshaghi [01:16:28]:
So sorry for that, for the rant there.

Tim Newman [01:16:32]:
No, that, that's, that, that's good. And, and to be able to, to draw that analogy so people can, can see how that actually works. Right. But you know, your message is all about escaping that, that comfort piece. But for someone listening who knows that they need to take that next step to get uncomfortable, where should they go to stay connected with you and keep that momentum going?

Said Eshaghi [01:17:00]:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I'm on LinkedIn and they can just search for my name. There's only one Said Asagi with that spelling. And they can also to go to my website, saeed asagi.com or they can send me an email again, saeedeshagi.com so it's all easy words.

Tim Newman [01:17:26]:
Yeah. I'll put all those links in the, in the show notes and, and please go and, and buy Said's book. It's, it's really good. By the way, I, I owe you a, a review.

Said Eshaghi [01:17:41]:
Oh, appreciate that.

Tim Newman [01:17:42]:
Yes, you'll get five stars from me.

Said Eshaghi [01:17:46]:
Thanks.

Tim Newman [01:17:49]:
But I'll do that next couple days.

Said Eshaghi [01:17:50]:
Oh, no, I appreciate you. I really appreciate you. And yes, please buy the book and write an honest review on Amazon. It's only available on Amazon. Escape from Comfort. Yeah. Hope it helps.

Tim Newman [01:18:09]:
Thank you so much for spending some time with us today and sharing your story. I can't thank you enough for doing that and your friendship and I know I'll see you, I'll see you on the, on the screen here real soon.

Said Eshaghi [01:18:22]:
Absolutely. Thanks, Tim, everybody. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Tim Newman [01:18:26]:
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them. You can also register for the Formula for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We'll talk to you next time. Take care.