Empowering Introverts: Stacey Chazin on Leadership, Self-Awareness, and Authenticity

Tim Newman [00:00:01]:
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Tim Newman [00:00:14]:
dot com and sign up for form for public speaking course. It’s a step by step system to help you become the confident and powerful speaker you’ve always wanted to be. Welcome to Freedom With Confidence, a podcast that’s here to help you unlock the power of effective public speaking. I’m your host, Tim Newman, and I’m excited to take you on a journey to become a better public speaker. Today’s guest, Stacey Chazin, is a dynamic leadership coach who empowers introverts to transform their natural qualities into professional assets. With a master’s in oriental development and leadership and certification as a Myers Briggs type indicator practitioner, she draws from her extensive corporate and nonprofit experience. Stacey passionately guides her introverts towards achieving fulfillment and success. You’re shaping how introversion is viewed and valued in the workplace.

Tim Newman [00:01:12]:
Stacey, welcome to the show, and I’m so glad that we connected because I, you know, I think you and I are the same person.

Stacey Chazin [00:01:19]:
Thank you, Tim. I’m really happy to be here.

Tim Newman [00:01:21]:
So, you know, talk a little bit about your your journey and and how you, came to to embrace the whole idea of of being an introvert.

Stacey Chazin [00:01:31]:
Sure. So as I’ve told this story, more and more when I was talking with people about this work, I realized that my story actually began earlier and earlier in my life than when I first started telling it to the point where I really believe it began in preschool. And and I say that because when we’re in preschool, you know, as early as that, we hear messages from teachers, from parents, from from other people’s parents that, being more social, having more friends, taking part in every activity of circle time or playing with a whole bunch of kids on the playground is preferable to going off on your own or having just 1 or 2 friends or, you know, building a a tower made out of blocks with, with your best friend. And we we start hearing this message, and we don’t know it at the time, that extroversion is better than introversion. And, I certainly didn’t know those words back then. But when I look back, I realize that throughout my life, starting back in preschool and throughout elementary school and high school and even college, we continue to get these messages. We hear you need to be a better collaborator, you need to speak up more in class. Right? Most classes you’ll get a student participation grade, and that doesn’t speak to dropping a note to the teacher at the end of the class.

Stacey Chazin [00:02:51]:
It’s how often you’re raising your hand and making some contribution. Right?

Tim Newman [00:02:55]:
Right. Right.

Stacey Chazin [00:02:56]:
And and this follows us into our career where, being someone who’s a great networker, who likes to, shmooze new clients, who loves to collaborate and offer up quick ideas around a conference room table rather than having the time to think these through. All of these things are characteristics of extroverts. And for me, I am I had a a seminal moment. One of my first moments was when I was working for a nonprofit organization think back in, I want to say it was around 2012. My boss had everyone in the company take a Myers Briggs Type Indicator Assessment or MBTI. And for any of your listeners who are not familiar with the MBTI, it is the world’s most commonly used personality assessment. It’s used a lot in the business world by by employers. And essentially what it does is it lets you know what your preferences are along 4 different dimensions, one of which is how you get your energy from the world.

Stacey Chazin [00:03:57]:
And if you are someone who who is introverted or technically we say has a preference for introversion, you tend to be energized when you have time to, think by yourself, be by yourself, engage with maybe 1 or 2 other people or even engage with many people, but not for as long a period of time as an extrovert might. And an extrovert is the opposite. Right? They’re going to be fueled by the interactions with others. They don’t need the breaks like we do. It’s it’s a whole different ballgame. And so I took the MBTI, and I I discovered that there the word for for my energy and and the reason that I was feeling drained and the reason that I was feeling sometimes that I didn’t quite fit in and needed to change, thought I needed to change who I was, was that I was I was introverted. And I not only learned about myself, but I learned about the people I work with as well because we had an opportunity to share our Myers Briggs profiles with one another. And it was so eye opening because it made me see, oh, now I know why you drive me crazy.

Stacey Chazin [00:05:00]:
Right? Because you have completely opposite letters than I do. Right? I’m an ISTJ, which is introverted, sensing, thinking and judging. The opposite of that, in ENFP. And it gave me insights into other people where I realized, okay, that’s why you drive me crazy. It’s not that you’re not working hard or you’re not as smart as me or you’re not as as anything as me. We all approach things differently, and a lot of that can be explained by our Myers Briggs profile.

Tim Newman [00:05:29]:
Right.

Stacey Chazin [00:05:30]:
And I started to realize then that pretending to be something I wasn’t, right, I had heard, you know, being an extrovert is better than being an introvert. I’d heard this indirectly or directly again since I was 3 years old, that that was a recipe for failure. And I started to to see what would happen when I stopped pretending to be an extrovert but started to embrace and show up as my authentic introverted self, and it was like night and day. We seldom are successful when we try to be something we’re not. And that absolutely applies to being introvert or extrovert. So fast forward a little bit and I became a leadership junkie. I decided to go back to school and get a master’s in organizational development and leadership. And really, when I look back on that program, the theme of it in retrospect was leading from a place of self awareness.

Stacey Chazin [00:06:25]:
And as an introvert, to me, that was recognizing that I’m an introvert, knowing what that means for the situations and circumstances in which I’m gonna thrive and most likely to be successful and feel self fulfilled. And I started blogging about that, what it means to be more authentic and to not try to sweep your introversion under the rug. And I got amazing emails from people to say I feel seen. Right? How do you know? That’s just what I was thinking. And I was it was so impactful for me to to get messages like that. I I’ve always been a writer, but I’ve never written like that before and made that impact before. And I said, you know what? This is what I meant to do. Like, I’m here to I wanna help other introverts stop feeling badly about their introversion and learn how to embrace the gifts, the strengths of being an introvert so they can feel better about themselves.

Stacey Chazin [00:07:22]:
They can be more effective in their jobs, and they can be recognized for the leaders that they’re meant to be. So that was more than a nutshell, but that’s how I got here.

Tim Newman [00:07:34]:
And, you know, you you said you said a lot of things in there, and it’s really important, you like like you said, to to we have to know who we are to be effective really at anything. And, you know, for me, I struggled when I was younger too with some of those same things. Kind of being forced or me forcing myself to be more outgoing because that’s what I thought would what I was supposed to be doing. That’s kind of where, you know, I started to learn as well that, you know, you need to just be authentic. Lean into who you are. Do the things that you know are working for you, and that’s how you end up being successful. Yeah. So, how can we get, you know, the younger generation to understand that, figure out who they are? Because I don’t think they spend a whole lot of time, you know, thinking about who they are and what makes them tick and what makes them, you know, what their strengths and weaknesses are, how can we get them to not get into their, you know, their 30s 40s to figure it out?

Stacey Chazin [00:08:47]:
Yeah, Great question. So a really easy way to do it is if you have the opportunity to take a Myers Briggs assessment, or there are other assessments out there like the Enneagram, another assessment that helps you to identify, really what makes you tick just through through a different lens. So I think if you have the opportunity to do that or you can do that on your own, you can actually do it with a practitioner, or you can do it right directly through the the Myers Briggs website and get your report by yourself without having to involve anyone else. And it’s not that expensive. So that’s one way of doing that. If short of doing that or even in addition to doing that, what I’d suggest is to if people could start to pay attention to when are when are you feeling at your best? When are you doing your best work? And this is an approach that I take with my coaching clients. It’s a framework called appreciative coaching. And essentially what it does is it starts with an exercise where I guide people to identify what’s called their positive core.

Stacey Chazin [00:09:47]:
So that’s the best of who they are really. And and you can do this you can do this on your own as well. You can think about reflect on what were some times at work, in maybe it’s when you were in school if you’re still younger in your career, and don’t have a lot of work experiences to reflect on yet. What were some times where I felt like I was doing my best work? Where I felt like I was recognized for my strengths? Where I felt most fulfilled? Questions like that. And to write down what those experiences were, and then take a look at what are some common themes across those experiences in terms of, let’s say, they were all experiences where you had a chance to be a writer. You contributed in writing. Writing is a is a strength that many introverts have. Maybe one of the things is, you had an opportunity to collaborate with people in small groups or just with one other person, or you had an opportunity to do it was an opportunity to do work that was very values based.

Stacey Chazin [00:10:45]:
It was aligned with your values as a as a human, not even necessarily as an introvert, but introverts tend to have more of a need, a desire to do value based work. So you take a look at that. And from that process, you can start to pull out what are the things that, you were able to apply to these situations that made them successful. And and you might, for example, find that my positive core is and I’ll use myself as an example. I think pieces of my positive core are that I’m a strong writer. I like to go deep in relationships and go deep in subject matter expertise, and I like to do values based work. Those are some things that make up my positive core. And with that, like, nugget of information, you can begin to see what are the situations and circumstances, work environments, project expectations.

Stacey Chazin [00:11:38]:
What what are the types of things that you wanna have in place to increase the likelihood that you’re gonna be successful, that you’re gonna be you’re gonna feel fulfilled? And then you can start to seek out opportunities and roles that align with your positive core.

Tim Newman [00:11:54]:
Yeah. And and I think along with that, that it’s okay to lean into that. It’s okay to to I wouldn’t say, you know, buck the system or go against what society says, but but that’s kind of what it is though. Right? Because like you said, we’ve been we’ve been told and almost forced into a track, and and anytime somebody goes against that track, oh, they’re rebelling against us. They’re everything but what they actually are. And, you know, I see this all the time. I tell tell students and the people I coach, it’s okay. You know, don’t worry about what what what they’re telling you.

Tim Newman [00:12:38]:
Don’t worry about those things. If this is what makes you successful, then that’s what you need to do. Because if you’re if you’re doing what they’re telling you to do and you’re not successful, then it doesn’t really matter.

Stacey Chazin [00:12:49]:
Yeah. That’s exactly right. And and that you know, when you say, you know, buck the system, right, most workplaces are designed with extroverts in mind. Yeah. Right? Think about it. We have that I know on my schedule, back to back meetings. Some companies I’ve been working with, they try to build in, okay, we’re going to just have our meetings go 50 minutes rather than 60 minutes. So people have a chance to to take a break in between and they can’t even stick to that.

Stacey Chazin [00:13:15]:
So you have back to back meetings. You’re expected to be on all the time even when when you’re working at home. I think that there’s sometimes an increased expectation that you’re available after hours because you have access to your phone, to your laptop. If you’re on-site, there are a lot of open office layouts that are very popular these days. There are expectations again of networking and schmoozing and all of these things are extrovert friendly. They’re not aligned with how introverts are gonna thrive.

Tim Newman [00:13:46]:
Yeah. And and that when you you talk about be you know, work from home or being, you know, being connected at home, for for me, I feel obligated, you know, in when when I’m at home, because I don’t want to let people down. I’m also an ISTJ, and the reliability, if I say I’m going to do something that’s going to get done, and all those things, so if something comes through, the thought that goes through my head, Hold on. I’ve got to stop doing what I’m doing and get this taken care of. That, again, is the good and bad of technology and these types of things. And, you know, we’ve talked about this a little bit. You know, we do this to ourselves. You know, it’s kind of some of that inner self talk that we have to be okay with saying, You know what? I’m not going to do this now.

Tim Newman [00:14:43]:
I need to take the time to do whatever it is that I was doing, or relax or whatever, and I’ll get to this later. And that’s another hard thing to do. It’s another hard thing, I think, for people like us to wrap our brains around, that it’s going to be okay if we don’t do what whatever that is at that given point in time.

Stacey Chazin [00:15:05]:
Yeah. That’s a great point. Introverts also tend to be averse to conflict. So saying no is a very hard thing for introverts to do sometimes. Right? We we take on we say yes. We we wanna be a team player, although we don’t wanna always do

Tim Newman [00:15:22]:
always be with a team. We wanna be

Stacey Chazin [00:15:23]:
a team player. And so saying no because because we are averse to conflict, because sometimes we are not confident speaking assertively, we don’t say no sometimes when we need to. And the challenge with that is it kind of fuels burnout for us. Right? Introvert burnout. It’s like when your when your energy is depleted on a regular basis and you’re not having a chance to recharge, if you’re overloaded with work, you know, you’re taking on things that that are more than more than what your bandwidth can handle, or you’re you’re saying yes to something that maybe isn’t quite aligned with your skill set, which makes you uncomfortable, all these things can fuel burnout and that can affect you physically, emotionally, Psychologically, it it takes its toll, and no good is gonna come of that.

Tim Newman [00:16:12]:
Right. Now when we when we go down that road, we also have to understand that there there are some things that we we have to do, Yes. Such as communication. Like, so let’s just say, you know and we’ll get into some characteristics of the introverted leader here in a little bit. But, you know, we have to be able to communicate with people. And let’s just say a team meeting. You have to be able to stand up and I say stand up. You don’t necessarily have to stand up, but you have to be able to communicate your whatever it is your responsibilities are.

Tim Newman [00:16:48]:
If you’re reporting on a project, if you’re giving a presentation on something else, if you’re pitching a client, whatever that is, sometimes it’s stepping outside of that box and performing. And we have to be sometimes we have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Stacey Chazin [00:17:07]:
Absolutely.

Tim Newman [00:17:08]:
And that’s a that’s a different different skill set that, you know, we’ve we’ve got to got to get over, I think. Go ahead. I’m sorry.

Stacey Chazin [00:17:15]:
Yeah. No. Not at all. I think that’s a great point. What I’ll say on on top of that is you can do those things. You can speak up at meetings and you can present in front of a group or present in front of a large, you know, a ballroom at a conference. You can do all these things. The key is doing it in a way that taps into your innate introverted strengths.

Stacey Chazin [00:17:34]:
You need to do it the introvert way, not the extrovert way. And and so what that means, for example, is if you’re in a meeting, you you wanna do a couple things that can set you up for success. 1, you wanna request the meeting agenda in advance. At most most meetings, if people are doing it right, there’s an agenda. You you can get it in advance. And then for each topic on that agenda that’s relevant to you where you wanna have some input, identify one point that you wanna make around each of those topics ahead of time. Get any supporting data or evidence that you need. Write it down.

Stacey Chazin [00:18:09]:
So when the time comes at the meeting, you’re prepared. The introverts are very good at at preparation, and that’s that’s one of the keys to being successful as a communicator. So that’s one thing you can do. Another thing you can do is and this speaks to how we can make workplaces more inclusive and responsive to the needs of introverts, is to ask for opportunities to contribute in writing, either before the meeting or after the meeting, or to ask, could you meet with the meeting facilitator or a decision maker after the meeting and have a 1 on 1 conversation? So it’s it’s taking this meetings, this this typical traditional meetings forum, whether it’s on Zoom or it’s in person, and how can you make that something that’s gonna be introvert friendly? And, Tim, I’ll give you, for show notes if you want to include I have a meetings playbook for introverts. It’s something free folks can get, and it’s ways to have your your voice heard and your ideas shine in meetings.

Tim Newman [00:19:07]:
Yeah. That would be great.

Stacey Chazin [00:19:08]:
Strategies just for introverts. But it’s definitely something that that you can master and so that you’re increasingly less you’re increasingly less uncomfortable or more more comfortable in those spaces.

Tim Newman [00:19:21]:
I think that’d be that would be great for our audience. And and and, again, understanding that, you know, to you have to know who you are, and and, again, I I think the preparation, which is something that and it could be that I harp in preparation because that’s who I am. Yeah. But preparation is so important, really, in everything that we do. Yes. Doing that background research and having that background knowledge so that you can respond or that you can give that out, it really kind of makes sense as you start to learn learn a thing about yourself and who you are, why why you’re doing some of those things that you’re doing. And and and having a tool like that, I think, would be very, very helpful for, for the audience. So from a what are some other tips or things that you could give the audience about, let’s just say, going to a networking event? Because for me, going to a networking event, I’d rather put myself in the eyeball with toothpicks than do something like that.

Tim Newman [00:20:32]:
But but, again, it’s one of those things that I know that’s something that we have to do. We have to go and interact and meet people and make and make those connections. What are some things that our that our audience could could do as an introvert to be able to go and do those things and be successful as well?

Stacey Chazin [00:20:48]:
Yeah. I think, Tim, you you and I really are the same person. I feel the same way. I know I I wanna poke my ass. Or let me say, I used to feel that way. But then, like like the other strategies and approaches I’ve talked about, I figured out how to do it the introvert way and it’s not so bad anymore. So here’s what I advise and what I practice is, so typically if you’re going to a big conference, a lot of conferences these days have an app that you can use where you have all the information about the sessions and whatnot. And you’ll typically also have a a list of attendees there, whether it’s on an app or you can possibly get it ahead of time another way.

Stacey Chazin [00:21:24]:
Take a look at who’s gonna be there and identify ahead of time who you wanna meet. And what I suggest is maybe find, 3 people per day who you wanna make sure that you connect with. Look them up. Find them on LinkedIn or find their website for their organization. Learn a little bit about them and then make it your mission each day to check those 3 people off your list, in a way that’s meaningful. So if there’s a cocktail reception, if there’s, other networking time, find your people. Most conferences will have named badges, so that should be helpful. So prepare ahead of time.

Stacey Chazin [00:22:00]:
Identify who you wanna meet. Talk to them. Find out. Prepare your talking points ahead of time for each person or maybe it’s just a goal. So I wanna meet Tim and I wanna when I talk to him, I wanna find out, what does he think the biggest trend is in our industry for for next year? Right? It could be what whatever it is you wanna get out of it. Or maybe you want some piece of career advice and keep a list for yourself. And when you’ve when you’ve gotten 3 or 3 people that day, be done. Right? You you you’ve done what you need to do.

Stacey Chazin [00:22:29]:
You’re you’ll have an opportunity to go deeper. Right? It’s not about trying to collect 50 business cards or get 50 new connections on LinkedIn, but going deeper with a set of people who you identify in advance. The other thing that that I would suggest is have some icebreaker some icebreakers in your back pocket. Right? A lot of us, we hate small talk as introverts. So that pressure, like, oh, what am I gonna talk about? Right? It could be the weather. It could be last night’s game, whatever it is. But come up with a couple of small talk prompts that are maybe aligned with your your professional interests and have those in your hand so you’re not doing it on the fly. And then the last thing I’ll offer is if you’re at a big conference and you wanna protect your introverted energy, right, you’re you’re gonna be more likely to burn out if you’re at a multi day conference, especially you’re away from home, let’s say.

Stacey Chazin [00:23:23]:
Give yourself some grace. And when the when the official events are done for the day, go up to your hotel room and and just recharge, decompress, or maybe let yourself off the hook. And if you don’t have to go to every session of the conference, pick the ones that are most important to you so that you’re you’re gonna increase the likelihood that you’ll be your best self. And just because I have you, I will say I too I’ll also give you a link for I have a conference survival guide

Tim Newman [00:23:53]:
Oh, I did.

Stacey Chazin [00:23:54]:
It has other tips like that, including some other networking strategies. So I’ll give you a link to that as well to share.

Tim Newman [00:24:01]:
You know, it’s it’s funny as you talk about that. I think I think I know my daily schedule. Right? Because, again, we talked about my ADHD is just so it’s so bad, and being introverted, I’m a mess at times. So I have a very I try and keep a very rigid schedule. And when I go to conferences, let’s just say things start at 8 Normally, I’m already up and working and and have gotten so much done before 8 o’clock, whatever it is. But I look at 8 o’clock meeting, I’m like, oh my gosh. 8 o’clock meeting. Right? Or, you know, 8 o’clock session or this, that, or the other thing.

Tim Newman [00:24:35]:
I’m like, oh my gosh. I’ve got to get up this I’ve got to get up so early and then do this when it’s my normal schedule at 8 o’clock meeting was is nothing. But by noon, I’m wiped out. I mean, I am just exhausted for, you know, for whatever reason it is and, you know, let alone having to do a, you know, the 6 o’clock happy hour networking event. I’m done. And so having a way to be able to get through some of those things and still be professional and still do the things that you need to do, If if I could have had that, you know, 20 years ago or 30 years ago instead of instead of fighting, you know, fighting yourself the whole time, you know, and and that’s one of the things, you know, with with technology right now, if if we can get the young professionals or or the younger generations to understand, you know, some of these things, how much better their their lives will be and how much how much better professionals they’ll be, to to kind of learn from, I wouldn’t say our mistakes, but our struggles. It’s because, you know, again, they have so much more access to information than we did, too. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:25:53]:
Right?

Stacey Chazin [00:25:54]:
Yeah. I mean

Tim Newman [00:25:55]:
Go ahead.

Stacey Chazin [00:25:56]:
Guys, you probably used to have a Rolodex, right, like I did, like an actual Rolodex cards. And I don’t know how we I don’t know how we research companies. Did we go to the library and look on the microfiche? Like, how did you right? There was no World Wide Web.

Tim Newman [00:26:09]:
There was.

Stacey Chazin [00:26:09]:
Graduating college or or it was in its very early stages and only the engineering kids knew how to use it or how to access it. Oh,

Tim Newman [00:26:17]:
yeah. I remember when the PalmPilot came out? I got one of those, and that that thing was amazing. I actually have a friend who just got rid of his about 5 years ago. Wow. Yeah. So, but, you know, the access that we have, let’s just think about the Myers Briggs 30 years ago. I know it’s evolved a little bit, but how we took it or it, I know the last time I took it was probably 5 or 6 years ago, and it was done on a computer. It spits out your profile.

Tim Newman [00:26:53]:
It gives you all these different types of ideas and tactics and those types of things. And before you had to pull it out, send it off in the mail, maybe you would get your results back in 3 or 4 weeks.

Stacey Chazin [00:27:08]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:27:09]:
And now we can do this right away. A few weeks ago, actually a couple months ago now, my colleagues and I did what’s called the DISC profile.

Stacey Chazin [00:27:20]:
Uh-huh.

Tim Newman [00:27:21]:
Okay. And so now, that’s the first time I’ve ever done the DISC. And I compare the DISC with the Myers Briggs, and it really kind of solidifies why I do the things that I do. Because we were looking at it just from a meeting perspective, how we interact in meetings. And it opened my eyes about some of my colleagues. And the way I act is, Oh, that’s why you’re so direct. Mhmm. You know, or those types of things.

Tim Newman [00:27:53]:
So we have so much more access to information. And again, if we could get the younger generations to do these things, accept it, and lean into it, and be authentic, and be yourself, you’re going to be so much more productive. You could be so much more, you know, so everything in your life will be better, not not just your your professional lives, but your your personal lives as well.

Stacey Chazin [00:28:15]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s not just your introversion, even though that’s what we’re talking about today. Right? The same is true for however you’re wired. Exactly. Or you’re authentically you, fighting that is generally not gonna turn out well for you. Right? I I mean, I’m I’m all in favor of of using your strengths and building on your strengths. And, if there’s something that’s problematic for you in your life, sure, go ahead and address it, but don’t try to pretend to be something you’re not.

Stacey Chazin [00:28:42]:
And the sooner you can get your arms around, what is it what is my positive core? What makes me what makes me me, and how can I use those gifts in all aspects especially in your career? I think it is really such a natural accelerator in terms of leadership and success and fulfillment.

Tim Newman [00:29:01]:
Yeah. And when you’re trying to be something or somebody that you’re not, people see through it relatively quickly.

Stacey Chazin [00:29:08]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:29:08]:
And you lose credibility that way. It’s, you know, again, I’d rather say I don’t know or I’m not good at that. Just come right out and say, no. That’s not something that I can do. You know, as as a for example, you know, where where we live, we have kind of an an HOA, and I don’t wanna get into the HOA stuff, but they they’re they needed something done. And I said, you can give me a report, and I can go through it. And I could do some of the research for you, but I’m not the detail person. Don’t don’t give me numbers.

Tim Newman [00:29:39]:
I mean, I’ll go through it. I can pick stuff out, but I’m not the numbers person. And they were looking for a numbers person. They said, well, why can’t you just do the numbers? I said, well, that’s not what I do. I can’t I can’t help you there. I mean, that’s that’s

Stacey Chazin [00:29:52]:
and

Tim Newman [00:29:52]:
they they couldn’t understand why why I wouldn’t help them in that in that aspect. If I said I could do it, it, it’s not actually helping you either. So lean into it’s okay to say no. It’s okay to say I’m not good at something. Give that off to somebody else. And, again, I think that’s a sign of a good leader, you know, especially so what’s what are some some characteristics or or things that introverts can do to to to really be good leaders?

Stacey Chazin [00:30:24]:
Well, it it comes back to tapping into your innate gift. So I’ll highlight a few things that are really, some core leadership strengths, I think, of introverts. Right? And so one is we tend to have a calm demeanor. Right? We’re not the loudest voice in the room, but we’re we’re we tend to be very good when there is agitation or conflict, or some type of crisis in not just stepping in immediately and wanting to, throw some idea on the table and speak out loud. Right? Introverts we say introverts tend to think out loud. Inch I’m sorry. Extroverts tend to think out loud. Introverts do not.

Stacey Chazin [00:31:03]:
Right? So you can sit back during a time of crisis or conflict and really take in what’s going on, appreciate the context more deeply so that when you do speak up, the ideas that you’re sharing are much more grounded in that context, in the nuance, as well as in fact. The next thing, and this is something I think is lost on people, is that introverts tend to be highly emotionally intelligent. We have really high levels of empathy. And so this lets us just this lets us see how people on our team or other people in the communities we serve, other people we work with, what their needs are, what are their perspectives. If we’re, if we’re in a negotiation or we’re trying to design a program that that is gonna, meet a a community’s needs, what are the dynamics going around around the table? What are people’s emotions? What are their fears, what do they care about, we have a we have a stronger ability to pick up on those and then design our recommendations and and cater how we communicate to those nuances. That’s a huge leadership gift. We are also we’re reflective thinkers. So we have this when you when you’re very introspective like we are as introverts, you’re able to, you’re able to be a stabilizing force, but you’re also able to come up with innovations and creative solutions that the people who are speaking off the cuff aren’t necessarily gonna have.

Stacey Chazin [00:32:33]:
So that positions you to to be an innovative leader, to be an innovative thinker. And then the last thing I’ll mention is we’re really good listeners. And that sounds like, oh, listening. Right? It’s kinda ho But being a deep and reflective listener allows you to do a lot of things. It it allows you to appreciate the depth of a situation, the depth of a need more powerfully than someone who’s extroverted. It also allows you to, when we talk about listening, it’s not just about with our ears. Right? It’s listening with our eyes as well. We’re very good at picking up on nonverbal cues.

Stacey Chazin [00:33:10]:
So you can see if in in someone’s eyes, in in how someone is leaning forward, which might which might communicate some interest and support or they’re leaning back with their arms folded, which could be some defensiveness. Right? We’re very good at picking up on those cues. And that’s a really powerful communication skill. So it’s communication is so much more, than just speaking. Right? You know that? Yeah. So how you’re taking it in, how you’re processing what you’re taking in, and then how that really bolsters your ability to to lead, to offer solutions, to motivate people, to inspire trust, and to build collaboration. That’s really powerful.

Tim Newman [00:33:52]:
Yeah. And as you as you talked about that, you know, you you said a lot of things, and I’m I’m certain and I started thinking about leaders and some of the things that that they’ve done and who and who these people are. I think good leader there are good expert leaders, and there are good introvert leaders. You know, again, not single any of them out. But I I think when you get to the whole idea of listening, that to me is is something that really kind of separates people. If you can if you if you’re actually interested and caring enough to listen to what other people have to say and what they think, I think that’s the that, to me, is is one of the biggest separators of of leaders that there is.

Stacey Chazin [00:34:36]:
Yep. Yep. And it really when people feel like you’re listening to them, when they when they think you’re really seeing them and you’re not just, waiting for them to finish talking so that you can say what you wanna say. Right? It really it it helps to strengthen your relationship with them.

Tim Newman [00:34:51]:
Mhmm.

Stacey Chazin [00:34:52]:
And it, elevates the esteem in which they hold you, because because it speaks well of you, and it makes them feel it makes them feel cared for.

Tim Newman [00:35:02]:
Right. So what about, you know, introverts in terms of advocating for themselves in terms of getting promotions or negotiating raises or even negotiating, you know, sales agreements or contracts or things of that nature, where, again, I don’t want to say that we’re I don’t even want to say that. I think I’m gonna cut that out. But, you know, I’m I don’t know the exact word I’m trying to say, but we’re we’re I think we’re we’re, you know, quiet. We’re more, we’re perceived we’re we’re perceived as more quiet. But inside, again, we’re thinking, and we’re doing all those all those other things that people don’t even realize that we’re doing. So so talk about introverts in terms of those negotiation types types of skills.

Stacey Chazin [00:35:59]:
Yeah. And I think what you might be getting at a little there too is we’re not comfortable shining a light on our accomplishments in the same way that extra. Right? So we’re we’re uncomfortable being in the spotlight perhaps and then which also can undercut our confidence when we’re going ahead to make an ask, whether it’s for a promotion, a raise, project role, or, trying to get some recognition for our thought leadership. So, it won’t surprise you. What I’m gonna talk about is very based in tapping into the introvert’s strengths. So the first thing you’re gonna wanna do and and let’s let’s say there’s, let’s say you’re ask you want to ask for a raise. So the first thing you want to do is we talked about how good introverts are at preparing. You want to do research.

Stacey Chazin [00:36:41]:
You want to find out, what’s the salary band for people in your industry, in your geographic area with your level of experience? What’s the salary range there and where do you fall within that? So you want to come to the negotiation with data in hand. You want to have your your evidence there. The next thing you want to do is, you want to set clear goals for the negotiation. What’s your ideal that you want to accomplish, and what’s the minimum that you’re willing to take? And what that lets you do is it removes some of the need to make decisions in the moment, because you’ve already given thought ahead of time. Let’s say you’re asking for a $10,000 raise. That’s really what you want, but you’re not willing to take less than 8. If if your employer offers you offers you 6, it you’ve already come to that decision. Right? That that 6 is not gonna cut it for you.

Stacey Chazin [00:37:31]:
And, of course, every situation is gonna be unique, but I’m I’m simplifying it a bit. Right. But it takes some of that pressure off. So you’ve made some of those decisions ahead of time. The next thing is we just talked about how good introverts are at active listening. You wanna pay attention to nonverbal cues that are coming up in your conversation with whoever you’re negotiating with. Right? Again, are they leaning forward? Are they leaning back? Are they nodding? Did they they seem to have some visceral reaction to to a point you made. Pay attention to those things so that you can build on the things that seem to be resonating and maybe adjust your approach for things that are that are being counterproductive.

Stacey Chazin [00:38:14]:
Another really big thing, and this is something that introverts are great at, is you wanna collect create a compendium of of your accomplishments over the course of the year. And this is something you you can’t do it in the moment or you can, but it’s gonna be a lot more stressful and a lot more work. But as you’re going going about your your day, your week, your months, your whole year, keep a list. Create a folder on your computer if you want. Keep a list of contributions you’ve made. Keep an email folder where you save any emails you receive from other people either in your organization or beyond it with praise or acknowledging something you’ve done, some contribution you’ve made. Create this folder. You can call it, you know, emails that say I’m great or reasons I’m a rock star, whatever you wanna call it.

Stacey Chazin [00:38:57]:
And you have it in one place. You can refer back to that when the time comes. You don’t wanna then be scrambling. You know, if a if a promotion opens up or you realize that you’re gonna be asking for a raise or you’re you’re planning to ahead of time, you know, get your ducks in a row, get this information together so that you have it handy and it’s easy to tap into. And here’s one that I think that doesn’t immediately come to mind, but we talked a little bit before about the energy drain that introverts face that that we’re more susceptible to at work. Practice self care when you’re in a negotiating process. And that means if you know that you have a negotiating meeting with your boss, that’s probably something that’s gonna be draining for you. Maybe block the hour before your meeting and the hour after your meeting so that you can charge up ahead of time, and then you have that hour afterwards to to decompress and reflect on how the experience went.

Stacey Chazin [00:39:52]:
And then that’ll lead me to my last recommendation, reflecting. So we’re very good at at going deep and reflecting on experiences. After each negotiating meeting, after the whole process is done, write down some reflections for yourself about what seemed to work. When was I most comfortable? When did I feel most confident? What what language did I use that seemed to may have the most positive impact on the process so that you can you can reflect, identify areas you can build upon for next time and also identify things you might wanna make some tweaks to the next time you go about negotiating.

Tim Newman [00:40:30]:
That’s a that’s a really good idea. I’ve never really thought about that from that perspective. You know, generally, you’re just kind of thinking about how I how I do things. Generally, when I when I when I have have big meetings or or or things of that nature, I’ll call 1 or 2 people, and we’ll talk it through after it’s over. And then I let it go. But being able to to write it down to to go back and look at like like you said, you know, word after you’re really good in the language that I used, we can then go back and say, okay. Start practicing that or start putting those things into into practices as well. That that’s that’s a really good idea.

Tim Newman [00:41:18]:
So is there anything else that we did not talk about that you think our audience should know?

Stacey Chazin [00:41:23]:
I think that I would love to see your audience begin as they as they move through their careers. I would love to see them think about how they can change the narrative about introverts in today’s workplaces. So certainly advocate for yourself and consider the strategies we talked about today, but take advantage of opportunities for to educate other people, to educate your manager, to educate your peers, other people you network with about what your introversion means. Right? I I would encourage people to the extent that you’re comfortable. Say, hey. I just want you to know, I feel like I’m gonna be able to contribute a lot more to this to this conversation or to this dialogue if I can give you my ideas in writing because I’m an introvert, which means that I’m really good I’m really good at, when I have time to prepare. Let them know that that’s what that means to the extent that you’re comfortable. So it’s like, I I feel like introversion has become a dirty word, and and I’d love to change that.

Stacey Chazin [00:42:20]:
I I tell people that I’m a proud introvert, and it’s interesting when I reflect on that that I feel the need to say that. Right? We we shouldn’t have to I don’t think people say, oh, I’m a proud extrovert.

Tim Newman [00:42:31]:
Right.

Stacey Chazin [00:42:31]:
Right? To the extent that you can help to change this narrative and show others all the all the great things it means when you’re when you’re an when you’re an introvert and how you can contribute, how you can be a leader, and why it’s valuable having intro having an introvert or, of course, many introverts on your team at work.

Tim Newman [00:42:50]:
Mhmm. You know, I’m thinking that you said that, since I’ve been doing this podcast, the majority of people that I’ve spoken with are introverts, and the research that I’ve been doing is the majority of people in the wherever are introverts. And it seems like it’s we’ve got everything flipped around. And so that, you know, we’re acting like and behaving like the majority of the world are extroverts. Yeah. And it it really it didn’t hit me until you just said what you just said.

Stacey Chazin [00:43:29]:
Yeah. And and think of this, only 2% of senior executives in this country in corporations are introverted. Right? We are we are significantly underrepresented at the top, because there’s this extrovert bias that’s just everywhere, especially in business.

Tim Newman [00:43:50]:
Oh, that’s What? That’s it’s pretty eye opening. But, again, you know, figure out who you are and lean into it, and don’t worry about what what everybody else is saying or doing. I mean, because I

Stacey Chazin [00:44:03]:
just

Tim Newman [00:44:03]:
they won’t. It’s you you you’ve gotta be you. Yep. So, Stacey, where can people find you and work with you and and, get those free resources?

Stacey Chazin [00:44:16]:
So people can work with me and find out about me and get all these good resources by going to my website, which is ifactorleadership.com. If you go to the website, you’ll actually see there’s a pop up there that’ll help you to download a productivity guide that I created for introverts. It’s daily productivity hacks that help you to be more productive with less stress. I’m gonna put my conference survival guide and the meetings playbook. I’ll give you the links for the show notes to put that there. If you go to ifactorgift.com, there’ll be some resources there as well. And folks can also find me on LinkedIn, and you can learn about how you can work with me. I have an on demand learning program called the introvert’s leadership formula that, it’s a self paced course you can go through.

Stacey Chazin [00:45:03]:
And then I also do private coaching.

Tim Newman [00:45:06]:
That’s awesome. And and for for anybody, I’ll make sure again, make I’ll make sure make sure that all those are in the in the show notes for everybody. And so, Stacey, thank thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I really do appreciate it. Love the conversation. And, you know, again, for everybody out there, please just lean into to who you are. Figure figure out who you are and lean lean into it. So, again, thanks so much, Stacey.

Stacey Chazin [00:45:29]:
Thanks, Stu. My pleasure.

Tim Newman [00:45:33]:
Be sure to visit speaking with confidence podcast.com to join our growing community and register for the Foreman for Public Speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. We’ll talk to you next time. Take care. I hope you

Tim Newman [00:45:50]:
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Tim Newman [00:45:54]:
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Tim Newman [00:46:05]:
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