Overcoming Public Speaking Anxiety and Building Real Confidence with Hufsah Ahmad

Welcome back to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast that helps you build the soft skills that lead to real results. Communication, storytelling, public speaking, and showing up with confidence in every conversation that counts. I'm Tim Newman, a recovering college professor turned communication coach and I'm thrilled to guide you on your journey to becoming a powerful communicator. If you've ever been told to just be confident while your hands are shaking, your mind is racing and you're wondering what's wrong with you, this episode is for you. Today's guest is Hufsa Ahmad. Hufsa is a licensed therapist, scientist, award winning mental health advocate, behavioral health consultant and two time TEDx speaker. She is known for combining science, clinical practice and stand up comedy to help individuals reframe their struggles as pathways to resilience.

Tim Newman [00:01:00]:
Drawing from her personal experiences with serious mental illness, addiction, imposter syndrome, and the late diagnosed neurodivergence, Hufsa captivates audiences with her powerful story, unique insights and authentic charm. Hufsa, welcome to Speaking with Confidence.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:01:18]:
Thank you. Thank you Tim. Thanks for having me. Thank you viewers for viewing or listening.

Tim Newman [00:01:24]:
Well, you have such an incredible story and I know we're going to get into it, but the things that really grab my attention you're a two time TEDx speaker. It's hard enough to get on stage once to begin with, but you've done it twice and then you combine everything with standup comedy. And I think, I think everybody could use a little bit of comedy in their life whether they think they're funny or not. It's something that really kind of, at least from my perspective, helps change people's mindset. If you just laugh a little bit, laugh at the silly things that happen in life, it really does kind of change your mindset.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:02:05]:
Yeah, absolutely. Humor is grounding, humor is connection. Humor has saved me from missing a flight to America. So it's very, very powerful in my opinion.

Tim Newman [00:02:20]:
Let's go ahead and get into this because you said you actually like who you are now, but that wasn't always the case. When did you first realize confidence wasn't something you were born with, but you could actually do something to rebuild it or to gain it?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:02:36]:
Oh yeah, I definitely to go into my story, I think I started out from what I hear as a very happy baby that loved learning. Started reading when I was 2 and using computers when I was 3. And by second grade, after playing enough Oregon Trail and typing tutor, I could type faster than my teachers. And so I was very happy at the beginning. But life hits us Hard. And when I was nine, I ended up moving to Irvine, and I got bullied to the point where it was a daily struggle. I would cry all the time. And I walked into class in sixth grade, where I was voted in a slam book, dumbest and ugliest girl in school.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:03:19]:
So the kids wrote my name everywhere. And it's just. I went home and I wanted to die. And I attempted suicide in a very harmless way. I tried to overdose on Flintstones vitamins. It's like one of those things I tell people, like, you can't OD on Barney Rebels. I don't feel bad for me, you know? And so that kind of set me up for a path where I realized I don't belong everywhere and I'm not okay the way I am. And so I'd have periods where I was depressed and isolated.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:03:49]:
And then I'd go to a nerd school, an engineering college, and I'm the queen of nerds. Class president, class president, class president, student body president. And then entering the real world after college. I'm not that cool. I am weird. I'm not accepted. And there was a point where it became very internalized. Like, I'm not okay the way I am.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:04:10]:
Like, you know, at work, they found out that I had mental illness. I have bipolar disorder, and suddenly people are different. So after years of getting this message ingrained to me that I'm not okay the way I am, I reached the lowest point of my life, where I ended up relapsing after 10 years of sobriety and just, long story short, disaster. And I became so broken. And that's what really put me on the path to change a lot of things. And ultimately, I got that positive feedback where I was becoming more comfortable, and people were okay with that because I was in a new environment. Like, I started a new job where I could start over fresh. And that feedback loop of me being me and receiving positive feedback and me not being tied back by what other people thought, that's whenever the confidence came.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:05:03]:
And confidence is not going to be unwavering. Okay? If someone's depressed or messed up, a speech, like, it's going to hurt, and it's going to hurt the confidence or even life events. But if we understand that at our core, if we become comfortable with ourselves, that's where we shine, and that's where we connect beyond everything. And that's when we stop caring about the people that think we're weird.

Tim Newman [00:05:26]:
Exactly. And I think it's so, so hard to get to that point, to not care about what other people think and have that confidence. And you say that confidence is going to waver. And that's true for I don't care who you are. And I come from the sport industry, the greatest athletes of all time. They will tell you that they're not always confident that it comes and it goes. And so for I'm using Airfinger's quotes here, us regular people, of course it's going to come and it's going to go and it's hard to not care about what other people think. And so how did that process come about for you? And my guess is sometimes you still do care and you find yourself slipping back into that, but you have to pull yourself back out.

Tim Newman [00:06:19]:
How does that process work for you?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:06:21]:
To give you an idea, I used to care what everyone thought at all times. For context, I was on a plane and I was talking to a professor who went to the same grad school he taught at the grad school I went to. And then everything was great. And then I had mentioned my boyfriend twice in two sentences. I didn't mean to come off as like, oh, you're hitting on me. It was just something that, I don't know, I kind of wavered and he immediately shut down. And it took me a while to figure out because I hyper analyzed this every day for months and months, like, why did it happen? It was like, oh, I did that. And it's like every connection meant so much to me.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:07:01]:
And so I definitely would say I'm probably the worst people because everyone say, stop caring what people think. Stop caring what people think. And it's not easy. Like my TEDX talk, whenever it came out, the first one, relapse is part of recovery. Like Tim like it, it got such mean comments like, your voice makes me want to kill myself. If you were my counselor, I would kill myself. I hate everything about this person person. And that hurt.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:07:27]:
You know, I did stand, I do standup comedy. Bombing hurts. You know, being trash talked by people because people are going to try to pull you down if you're in the wrong environments. That hurt. It destroyed me in, you know, online harassment. You know, when my, my young cat of a year and a half passed away, people made memes of my dead cat. So it's like these are all very horrendous things that I just don't care care about anymore because it became one, a point of exhaustion that I can't deal with this anymore. And two, it's a perspective about do these people matter? Do I respect them? And then Three, it's just about accepting.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:08:08]:
Not everyone's gonna like me. Okay? In high school, most people didn't like me. The nerds did. I'm not in a world where I'm surrounded by nerds and to think, like, okay, losers on the Internet, do I care? People making comments, it's them, it's not me. And it becomes hard when it's your friends and your colleagues if they don't like you. But at the end of the day, it's just, I became so worn out by thinking that I just had to reach a point of accepting that I can't control what people think. I can only control my own actions, words, and take accountability when I'm wrong. But other than that, it's not required.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:08:45]:
No one is really required in my life besides my loved ones. Like this coworker doesn't matter. This networking opportunity doesn't matter.

Tim Newman [00:08:55]:
Yeah. And I guess even at some point, even loved ones have to be moved outside your circle at some level. Right. If it's not healthy, if they're part of the problem, and obviously, I'm not advocating that we take our brother or sister and because they made us mad yesterday, we move them out. But everybody has to decide these things for themselves. And when they've crossed those boundaries and refuse to acknowledge or understand how their behaviors are affecting other people, individuals have to make those decisions. But you've lived on both sides. Confidence and being bullied, losing your voice, and then coming back in leading rooms.

Tim Newman [00:09:52]:
What did the bullying teach you about how people perform confidence versus actually having confidence? Those, to me, are two different things.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:10:02]:
So to clarify, I feel I'm a little bit confused by your question.

Tim Newman [00:10:08]:
So, for example, when I say perform confidence, they may act with bravado, they may say, pretend that they have this confidence, but deep down inside, they're having that inner struggle. They're having that negative self talk, that failure mindset, or that mindset of, I'm not good enough to be here.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:10:33]:
Yeah. So the bully is projecting confidence when they're really not confident. So I don't know. Like, I've. I've studied a lot about bullying, trying to understand. I've talked to a lot of therapists. I've talked to a lot of people, and there's two camps. One is the bullies.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:10:52]:
We shouldn't call them bullies. We should call them children who bully because they're going through their issues, and we should look at it with empathy, which I think there's validity. But I would not classify every bully because there are bullies as adults. I've been bullied in the workplace. You know, the bullying doesn't stop in. It really repeats itself. That sure, maybe a kid's getting abused at home, but I definitely think in elementary school, going to a. I went to an elementary school farther from my home.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:11:25]:
We had to drive there and it was filled with a lot of affluent people where it's like, you know, it becomes less about like crying for help and more about just weird dominance things that I. It's hard to explain, but it's like, I think one thing that we really have to understand is like true, maybe there's bullies that are hurting inside. But I think what's more accurate is that sometimes people like, I'm sure the viewers and listeners have faced this where people bully because they're insecure. Like I've, I mean, I went to an Ivy League school and I graduated from a top engineering college. And so going into the mental health workplace where you don't have people who are valedictorian, they're just doing this job, there's friction, like a jealousy. And this is what my supervisors have said where I have been told that I am a mirror that exposes people's insecurities. And I've been told that, you know, people are very intimidated by me because I'm smart. And this is when my self esteem was so low, I thought it was literally stupid.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:12:30]:
So I was like blown away what is going on? And so it's sort of. Sometimes people who are high achieving or great speakers or accomplice will awaken parts in other people. And I think that's when I started to let it go that this is their issues. They're saying, I am ethical, I'm hardworking, I'm compassionate, I care, I want to help even the most symptomatic and sickest people in the world. That's what I want to do. And it awakens something. And when you start to realize it's not about you, it's about them, that's whenever you start to be free from the torment that you experience.

Tim Newman [00:13:06]:
Right, right. And that's a powerful thought. And again, to get to that point, That breakthrough must feel like one of the biggest weights off your shoulders than, than really anything else, because that's what, I guess that's what helps you be able to actually move forward.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:13:31]:
Yeah. And I would say I realized this probably in the last month, like it has been so bad, particularly as a. I entered private practice therapy and I already have my speaking business, but I needed to go solo. Full time because of these workplace conflicts, these kind of dynamics that I was just tired of. And being, you know, the only minority or nerd or neurodivergent in a sphere of other people just doesn't work for me. But I mean, it was, I was having so many interactions where I just saying the wrong thing. And like, I have bipolar, I have adhd, and I'm gonna say stuff that I don't mean. And oftentimes I say things that to me make sense but end up offending someone.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:14:19]:
You know, where it's just. I remember I sent a message just, you know, in my mind politely requesting a refund to this therapist, like coach or whatever. And in my mind it was, I gave compliments because I genuinely meant that. He was furious. He said, you hurt me. You're disingenuous. You can't say my book changed your life and then say this. And so I'm giving you a refund not because the policy allows it, but because I don't want to have anything to do with you.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:14:49]:
And I'm removing you from all my communities and blocking you. Which is pretty insane, especially since I had left a five star book review that was five paragraphs long about genuinely, which I ended up deleting because it's like, well, okay, so it's like those type of things were just deriding my mental health and I had to reach a point where it's like I can spend 20, 30 minutes on a message and it doesn't work. And I just, I can't let these people rule my mind. If someone is going to behave so strangely and extremely when I'm well meaning, then I don't want to have anything to do with them because they're going to continue to stress me out.

Tim Newman [00:15:28]:
Right.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:15:28]:
And like again, past probably three weeks where I just reach a breaking point where I could not take it anymore and I just had to relinquish control. Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:15:39]:
And how's that? How does that feel?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:15:42]:
You know, it feels like a very heavy burden has been lifted. And I have to say, I can't just say, oh, it's, you know, overnight in four weeks. I think it was a very long process. Kind of like I tell people in therapy or, you know, if you want to speak like it's chiseling a statue, you're not going to chisel and get there right away. It's going to be gradual and sometimes, you know, you chisel wrong or sometimes it's a great chunk, but at the end of the day it's continuous and so I had to really mature. I did 12 steps and that really forced me to look within and I had done wrong. And I thought, okay, when I make amends, we'll be friends again. And I had to face the fact that when I tried to, many people didn't reach out.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:16:30]:
And I had to just accept that as much as it hurt that I'm trying to be a good person, but I don't have that control. It's a lot of reading I did. I quit social media, by the way. Social media ruined my life and made this completely worse. So getting off of it helped. I quit for like nine months, if not a year. And now, you know, I read and I'm much happier. But it's just, you have to do a lot of self exploration and understand what's important.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:16:58]:
And I think the more you become outward driven, like, I want to provide service, I want to help people instead of looking inward, like, why don't people like me? Why don't this. That's when you start to grow.

Tim Newman [00:17:11]:
Let's talk about the social media for a second because I did want to get into that. When you took that break, how did you see your social confidence improve? And what was the most. What's the connection that most people miss between social confidence and that air of social media? If that makes sense.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:17:40]:
So this story is pretty crazy about how I got off of it because I was on Twitter all day long because I'm a comedian, I need to make jokes. And I saw my mind in retrospect just decline. I started off as a very happy person and now I'm getting to fight. I'm spending all my time thinking of what I'm gonna post. I'm thinking about so what someone says every moment of the day is being dedicated to social media, which I think is, oh, it's part of my career. And then you reach a point where it's like you make so many mistakes or it's just, I think, oh, yeah, you know what? It was my boyfriend. He was the one that he. So we were.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:18:21]:
It's a cute story. We were out writing together. He's a writer. And then I was on my phone and he said, are you on Twitter? And I said, I will neither confirm nor deny whether I'm Twitter. And he hands me like a, a gift wrapped item and I open it and it's a book. And he said, whenever you feel like going on Twitter, read this book instead, because this is really destroying you. So that was like, I reached a point where it's like, I cut it out a lot. But with that conversation, he's like, you have to get off.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:18:53]:
And I could barely read a page at a time. My attention span was so bad that like, I would struggle so much to be able to do it. But with time, I got better and I had this weird, weird, weird urge to scroll, like move my finger and zone out. So I uninstall the apps and mobile Chrome app, they make it very irritating, so you just give up. And I had to switch to news articles because that would satisfy my desire to scroll and zone out. But it was more long form than tweets or reels, so that helped build it. And then as I started to read more, I was like, wow, this is really fun. I'm not angry and agitated.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:19:42]:
I'm not trying to perform and get people to like me. And I started to read even more. Now I read on a daily basis, at least an hour a day, if not more, and listen to audiobooks and long form podcasts. And one thing that I realized is how much social media doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you get this. Like it doesn't matter if someone gets mad at you. The more you engage, the worse you feel. And social media is not a requirement of life.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:20:12]:
I hate that people think it's an expectation. It's ruining people's mind, it's making people be jerks to each other, not just online, but offline. And it's leading to just this constant fight or flight freeze mechanism. And also I realized like, I hate these. I hate Facebook, I hate meta, I hate Instagram, they listen to my conversations, they read my emails, they read my texts, they sell my data, all to market to me, to manipulate me and give me ads. And it's like, why would I volunteer my time for them to make money? Why would I spend four hours a day giving them data for them to make lots of money while I lose money in terms of advancing my life? So it's like now I just have this hatred for it. And I do have to use it more now for business reasons. But I think understanding that your life is being ruined, they're manipulating to you to use you for money and you're not having social connections.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:21:22]:
Like liking someone or comment is not a social connection. You pick up the phone or whatever you need to do, call a few friends, couple of times a week. That's where the joy comes from.

Tim Newman [00:21:35]:
Exactly. You know, you nailed everything there. It's not social at all. Alike is not social. Reading a post is not social. And like you said they've got access to everything about you, and we're too far down this road. From a societal perspective. I don't know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube, but they have access to everything, absolutely everything.

Tim Newman [00:22:03]:
Even as we're recording this, the reality is Facebook, here's this, you know, Instagram hears it. Twitter, here's it exit, whatever, it's whatever it's called. And when, when you go on those platforms, they're going to target those advertisements and target other posts to exactly what you're talking about. And like you said right now, my Facebook feed really doesn't have any of my Air Fringers quotes friends on it. It has advertisements, it has sponsored things. It has, you know, you know, buy this or, you know, know, go to this funnel or whatever it is. And it's, it's like you said, being a solo entrepreneur, it's a necessary evil to be on some of those platforms. And what are you going to do except for, you know, resist the urge to click on every sponsored ad? But they make it so hard.

Tim Newman [00:22:54]:
They do.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:22:54]:
I am now immune to clickbait. It took a very long time, but it's like I choose where my attention goes. I had a client, so I normally have like wrist braces on because I, I hurt my wrist, so typing became very difficult. So through Gemini in my Google workspace, I have an AI note taker and it doesn't go anywhere. It's, you know, legally they cannot send it anywhere. So I explained this to my client so it can help me take notes. But she's like, I don't want to use AI. And it's like, okay.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:23:28]:
She's like, I know it's more work for you. And it's like, okay, I respect that. Then she talks about how she's doom scrolling on Instagram and I'm like, why are you okay with Instagram when you're not okay with an AI note taker, Right? Like, do you know which one is worse? And it just kind of hit her. And, you know, a lot of clients have adhd and, you know, a lot of people think they do. I don't know if they do or not. That's not my business. But our attention span is diminished because you have to have a short attention span to be on social media. And like, I had gone on Blue sky, which is sort of, it was supposed to be the better Twitter, thinking I needed to, and I felt like I was going to have an aneurysm.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:24:11]:
There were so many posts, just so many different things. Like three of them were at least the same topic, highly depressing. And I just shut off the app because I said my attention span is now too long for social media.

Tim Newman [00:24:25]:
And that really kind of translates into interpersonal communication. Right? Because you can't even pay attention to what somebody's saying long enough to really have a conversation. Because again, number one, see attention span. And number two, you want to hurry up and get back on Facebook or Twitter or whatever it is, because God forbid you miss a post from somebody. The non social interaction of social media has really caused some serious side effects of the true social connections of people in real life.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:25:03]:
Yeah, absolutely. It's derided our ability. It has this suspiciousness and I think so I read a book called the Four Agreements. Have you heard of it?

Tim Newman [00:25:14]:
No. No, no.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:25:15]:
Okay, so long story short, you don't really need the book. It tells you on the COVID The Four Agreements, based on some Toltec wisdom book, is really spiritual. But the four rules are very important. The first one is be impeccable with your word, which means don't trash talk, don't gossip. I have completely removed that stuff that, you know, say I'm at work and I'm really irritated. I'm going to call my friend in New York who has nothing to do with those people and talk to him. But I will not talk trash about a coworker to another coworker. Not only because that's a bad idea, but that is character assassination.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:25:54]:
It's very unfair to that person to ruin their reputation. And I know what it's like to have my reputation ruined when I didn't do anything wrong. So, you know, and also tell the truth, you know, don't lie. The second thing is don't make assumptions. And the third thing is don't take things personally. And the fourth thing is always do your best. And so for two and three, those are very, very important for public speaking as well. And also life is that don't make assumptions and don't take things personally because assumptions, you know what the phrase is, don't make a ass out of you and me, you know, and it's true.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:26:36]:
Because assumptions are where all the misunderstanding happens. It's like if someone says something mean to me in person, I could simply say, and I'm borrowing from Jefferson Fisher, who's a great communication coach. I'm sure you know him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so did you mean for that to come off as patronizing or what did you mean by that? Or, you know, seeking the clarity because a Lot of times things are misunderstandings. And text. I don't know why people don't understand text makes no sense. Everything sounds sarcastic in an email.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:27:07]:
Okay? There's no body language, there's no tone. There's no other information beyond a text. And so when people get so upset about the email or text I wrote, like, a lot of times I also use voice to text because I'm disabled. My pain is so bad, which is sad because I type 120 words per minute. So there's so many misunderstandings that come from assumptions. And then the second thing is taking things personally. So if I'm. Of course, when I started speaking, I have a funny story about my TEDx where the crowd, it was supposed to be 300 people, it was 60.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:27:42]:
And this crowd was so dead. And there was a comedian who went on before me. He was so funny. But no one laughed. It was. If you listen to the recording, it's just me laughing because they were so, I don't know, timid. So now I go, But I practiced my TikTok 25 times in front of people and just. It was like muscle memory.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:28:02]:
But I was freaking out. Like, don't they find it funny? What's going on? Do they hate my talk? My talk has a quarter million views, so a lot of the comments are saying, yeah, that crowd was dead. So that was something that I took very personally when it was them. And if someone disagrees with you on social media, that's not personal. The idea that you can say something on social media and expect everyone to agree with you, that's insanity.

Tim Newman [00:28:31]:
Okay?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:28:31]:
I'm not talking about minimalism. I'm talking that in straight up insanity.

Tim Newman [00:28:38]:
And I'm glad you say it in terms of disagreements because what I would teach my students and what I tell people, there's certain things, number one, I don't post. Like, I don't talk politics or religion on social media because it doesn't matter. There's no nuance there. There's no, you're going to offend 50% of the people, no matter what you say, because they're not going to hear it. They're going to have whatever thoughts that they have. There's no nuance there. And so you really have to think about, do you really want to go down that road? Because once you go down that road, there's no coming back from it. There really isn't.

Tim Newman [00:29:26]:
And I tell people, I don't post anything on social media that I would not say directly to my mom's face.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:29:33]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Newman [00:29:37]:
And it's hard, but you've got to really, truly think about that. And again, you probably see this more than I do. Being a comedian and some of your other things in the TED talks, Let them think about what Mel Robbins says. If you want to be, if you want to be nasty, go ahead, be nasty, go ahead. Like you said earlier, it doesn't affect me. I'm not going to engage with that. And just like, if somebody's going to heap all kinds of praise, let them. Because again, you still don't know me.

Tim Newman [00:30:14]:
Thank you for the compliments. I appreciate the compliments, but that doesn't make me, it doesn't do anything to my self worth. It's my inner circle, it's my family, it's those people that know me. That's where that all those other things come from.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:30:31]:
So I had a, I had a. So, you know, I quit social media for about a year and I come back because I have to do Facebook because now it's about networking. And I used to tell a lot of jokes on social media. And so this one, it was more just an observation, like, isn't it insane that we engineered food to be addictive and now we have to take Ozempic to fight the cravings for this addictive food? And like, I thought it was funny. You know, I thought it was like, oh my God, this woman, this woman had hired me to give a keynote speech probably eight years ago where I received a standing ovation. She blows up at me and she said, don't be so quick to judge hafsa. My daughters needed Ozempic and they weren't addicted to food. And they try, I don't know, I was just like, that was really weird.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:31:31]:
So then I replied. I took very, probably 30 minutes to craft a very nice reply of, oh, I'm only saying this because I haven't had Doritos chips in a year. And I had it and I finished the bag immediately. And then I found out that they actually engineer food to be addictive. So this has nothing to do with that. Like, you know, they'll be so quick to judge me too. And then she replies like, you know, you know, that explanation was needed. And I'm just mad at this point because I took so much time to be kind that I just used the voice to text to be like, I.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:32:08]:
This was very clear. And I, whatever. And so what I realized from that interaction is like two things. It's like one, a lot of times people are acting in a way they wish they acted in the Past, Like, I'm sure someone has said something fat phobic, and she wanted to say something, or maybe she said something and it wasn't hurt. So now my statement has triggered her. Something about her daughters being treated horribly because of their weight. But now she's blowing up on me. It doesn't have anything to do with me.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:32:42]:
It's not personal. It's her issues being awoken. And I think I also realized, like, me getting mad because I put in that time, it's like, you know, I didn't need to do that. I mean, I didn't attack her. I just explained, like, this was made and it wasn't clear.

Tim Newman [00:32:59]:
Right.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:33:00]:
But then what I started to do is that if I made a post that I wanted people to think about or my opinion, I would say, like, you know, don't get mad at me. This post is meant to open discussion. So now if my posts are meant to open discussion, it makes sense to have contradicting views. Like, it is something that I invite. And yes, I'm always afraid people are gonna get mad at me, but at the end of the day, I think adopting that mindset that people will disagree and that's good. Hopefully they're not projecting in that weird way. Projecting is the term for what we're talking about with that lady.

Tim Newman [00:33:39]:
So, yeah, and see, the problem is, let's say it's a joke. If you have to write it's a joke, then that automatically takes the funny out of the joke, right? I mean, it's just kind of the way it is. And I don't want to go down this road really, at all. But I do need to say this, because again, I'm a lot like you. I got the adhd, and if I don't say it, it's going to drive me nuts. I don't know if you remember, they used to have commercials. You talk about engineering food to be addictive. There was a commercial.

Tim Newman [00:34:11]:
I think it was uts. Bet you can't have one. Just one. And then Pringles. Once you pop, you can't stop.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:34:18]:
And so.

Tim Newman [00:34:18]:
And so they take those subliminal messages and drive that even further with that. With that, you know, food engineering. You're absolutely right. And yeah, but now let's get off of that, because now I've said, but let's talk about public speaking anxiety, because again, this is. This is real. And especially when we talk about younger generations. All right? And you talk about public speaking anxiety in a way that doesn't shame people, which is great, because I Mean, you could go on all kinds of different forums and platforms, whether it's Reddit, whether it's LinkedIn, whether it's Facebook, whether it's X, and all these people that, that have this anxiety and some of the things that are said. But what's the biggest lie anxious speakers tell themselves before they walk on stage?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:35:19]:
So let's see. I would say the biggest lie they have, I would say there's two. One is fortune telling, they're trying to predict the future. And then two is mind reading, they're trying to predict how people are going to respond. So those are technically called cognitive distortions through cognitive behavioral therapy. But you could just call it unhelpful thinking styles because, you know, it's not really clinical. And the thing is, we have to understand that our brain takes shortcuts for two reasons, is that we're bombarded by so much information. Sounds, you know, taste, hearing things like what you see, just everything is too much for the brain to process.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:36:06]:
So we do need shortcuts. So that's where unfortunately, our shortcuts can backfire. And the second thing is evolutionary, is that we didn't have time to think about whether that tiger was a friend or a foe. We didn't have time to get to know it. We just needed the answer. And unfortunately, or maybe unfortunately, we're not in danger all the time, but our brain still operates in the same way.

Tim Newman [00:36:30]:
Right?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:36:30]:
So when people start writing the future in their heads and then they get in front of people and they start imagining what people are saying, that's where the anxiety can be very harmful.

Tim Newman [00:36:43]:
Right.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:36:44]:
And it's kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. And a lot of people I teach, once they learn these things, it really helps quite a bit. And there are, there have been folks I've worked with through a therapy, a trauma therapy called emdr, Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing with very long story short, is even in one session, if someone has some quote unquote trauma or even just a really disturbing memory, we can process that and practice a future. So that way they're more confident when they're actually doing the thing. We practice in session.

Tim Newman [00:37:21]:
Right, Right. That's interesting. And I gave a. It was just a five minute presentation last week and I talked about this topic and I kind of related it to my fear of heights. Okay, scared. I'm scared of death. Heights. That's just.

Tim Newman [00:37:43]:
There's a couple things. I'm scared to death of heights and snakes. I'm out. Right. And I Told my wife and daughters, I will save you from a snake one time. You get one time each. If you put yourself in that position a second time, that's on you. I can't help you.

Tim Newman [00:37:58]:
But I'm scared. Death heights. But I was also a paratrooper in the army.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:38:06]:
Thank you for your service, Tim.

Tim Newman [00:38:07]:
Thank you. But people would say, well, if you're scared of heights, how'd you end up jumping out of the plane? And I joke that because I had somebody behind me pushing me. And sometimes that's what you have to do to get over it and understand that that fear is there, not disregard the fear, understand that it's there and still do it. And still, however that happens, it's when we become paralyzed to me and we stop and we avoid that and do everything that we can to not do that thing. That's when to me, causes the real damage and anxiety not only to our, to ourselves, our self worth, our self being, but especially from a professional perspective, what that does to our careers.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:39:09]:
So the. I was pretty good at public speaking growing up in high school. Less about the skills, but because I was very obsessed with Lord of the Rings, which I still am. And I would. I had a cardboard photo that I would carry to. So every presentation was me trying to figure out a way that I could use Lord of the Rings in order to convey this topic. And I remember I was. I was a nerd, right? So I was in the advanced classes, but I had to take health class with the regular folks.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:39:37]:
And so I. I was literally relating Lord of the Rings. I printed out cards with like scenes and I was telling the stories as everyone was looking. And I know they were just like, this is insane. But I was the most captivating. But then later, after I developed mental illness and go through my arc of overcoming stigma and realizing mental illness is okay, I wanted to speak about it. So I went to a training. And at this training, while I was speaking, I was trembling out of my mind and a guy in the back of the room starts laughing and says, look at her, she's shaking.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:40:15]:
And that had got to be the most mortifying experience ever. But I kept going because it was important to me. And I mean, now I think I'm a great speaker, but I still have anxiety sometimes if I'm off for practice or I don't feel confident or just I get anxiety randomly because I have a disorder. But another thing to understand is fear isn't necessarily bad because fear is one of the seven emotions, like you've seen inside out Right, Yes. Yeah. So, you know, fear is one of the five emotions. There's seven total where it's happiness, fear, sadness, disgust,

Tim Newman [00:40:59]:
anger.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:41:00]:
Anger, yeah. And then the sixth and seventh is excitement, which is kind of similar to joy, and the seventh is sexual excitement. So fear exists really as a way to give us a heads up. And I think also fear gives us a little bit of insight, like, hey, I want to do a good job. Like, I want to impress these people. Like, your fear is letting you know that you have a valid, like, desire, a goal that you can actually accomplish. And when you learn to accept the fear, it really helps where you become a partner with the fear versus just overcast by it.

Tim Newman [00:41:40]:
Yeah. So you did this and you jumped in to stand up comedy. I'm laughing because, you know, stand up comedy is kind of the people that I look to at being really good public speakers because they do a lot of the same things. They script, they practice, they script, they practice. And it's. It's kind of what good public speakers are. Right. But it seems to me you jumped right into choosing the hardest level first.

Tim Newman [00:42:21]:
What did that teach you about that? Traditional public speaking? Never could.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:42:26]:
Well, so this is an interesting story, right. I was told to do stand up comedy by my therapist when I went to her for depression and hopelessness and loneliness, which, by the way, was terrible advice. And I could sue her if I wasn't performing internationally still. So if I lose my following, I will. But at the time, you know, we're in a stalemate. But yeah, she put it in as, it's a way for you to smash the stigma. I'm a stigma smasher because humor is a way to connect. And I didn't think I was funny at all.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:43:02]:
And I thought it was weird she found our sessions funny. I'm like, I don't think it's hilarious to talk about wanting to not live. But, you know, when I did the stamp comedy, it was like, great. The first time, every comic, usually comics, the first time's amazing and the second time's a bomb and it hurts. And I also, around this time, 2016, there was a lot of hate crimes towards my people. And I felt it was more important to talk about being Muslim because I wanted to normalize it and connect so I would. I felt like I was having panic attacks before I went on stage. That's the level of what I felt.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:43:41]:
But I kept doing it because I cared. And bombing never feels good, even. I think I. I didn't bomb, but I didn't do great. A Couple weeks ago in Oakland and I was shaking. I felt awful. So that feeling never really goes away. Bombing really sucks.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:43:58]:
But it's kind of like life, right? You're going to have ups and downs and the downs come more for other people and less. But all you have to do is enjoy the ups because it's inevitable. You're going to struggle. It's inevitable. So you might as well learn something from it.

Tim Newman [00:44:16]:
It's good to hear. It really is. Because again, you go back to what I said to open the show up with. To me, laughing changes your mindset. If you laugh, if you can laugh at yourself, it changes that really can change your mindset. And you know, I use a lot of self deprecating humor and it doesn't matter what, it really doesn't matter. It could be in a team meeting, it could be on stage, it could be, you know, even in a serious conversation with my wife or my kids, I'll throw in something, you know, whatever. And they say, you can't be serious for 10 minutes.

Tim Newman [00:44:56]:
No, I can't. I'm sorry. But I don't think that I'm funny, but I think of things. I'm like, you know, whatever it is, it just comes out. And to me that releases, at least for me, releases a ton of tension. And it allows me to focus, it allows me to get a point across or to share something that maybe received better even.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:45:24]:
Oh yeah, oh yeah. Humor, like, it's just, it's like I feel like if you put all the benefits of humor into a pill, it would be the most powerful happy pill ever. Like, it would just relieve you physically, mentally, emotionally. And so I work a lot with people with very, very severe traumas. And doing this treatment called emdr, or even talking about it is very triggering. So a lot of times Hunter comes in, you know, where it's like, okay, something dark and I make a really dark joke or they make a joke and we laugh and they go from like a 10 to 4 that it's so relieving that a lot of times when people are feeling like I don't want to let them go because they're too triggered, right, we don't even talk about it, we just joke. Like, and the laughing and laughing and laughing brings them down. Laughter also brings down defensiveness.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:46:19]:
So for example, I need to get back to America. I'm in Costa Rica and for some reason I only have 30 minutes to get to it. So I'm asking people like, hey, can I go? I have to make this flight. And this Couple stops me and they're like, we do too. And like now I know I should have said then come with me. But I was like, oh my God. And so I'm just talking. I don't remember what I did, but I made some joke and they laughed and then they turned around and said, you can go.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:46:47]:
And so it's just something about humor that really lowers defenses and people love people who are funny. But I think it's just something that I think that's why I feel so successful and why I'm so good at connecting and why people randomly talk to me at a coffee shop is because I have this approachability and this light heartedness that's very important.

Tim Newman [00:47:12]:
Is that something that you always had or something that you kind of developed as you've grown?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:47:20]:
I'm not sure because the thing is. So I found my Hobbit fan site. It was furry-footed.net. i found it on Wayback Machine, which is an Internet archive, and I saw a page that was just Lord of the Rings jokes. It was like jokes about hobbits, jokes about Boromir, jokes about Aragorn. And I was like, what? And I read them and like a lot of them are very corny, but one of them I thought was like really good. It was like one ring to rule them all. Isn't that supposed to be at and T slogan? Which I think is like a pretty good joke for a 13 year old, you know, but it's like I didn't know I was funny.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:47:59]:
I'd always been told that I come off as funny or I say funny things that aren't jokes. So it's something that I wonder I did without knowing it. But I think for my TED Talk I would say that would be something where I would have loved to have more types of humor that were related to the mental health versus jokes in between. But I think it's something that I can say I consciously do now, but I don't know when it really came from.

Tim Newman [00:48:29]:
How about crowd work? I studied crowd work as I'm doom scrolling on YouTube the different comedians again. But it's for work, right? It's work I'm learning. Crowd work requires presence, not perfection. Right? How did learning to be spontaneous and being present change how you handled fear?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:48:58]:
So I definitely did crowd work by accident. And I feel like I remember I did a show in San Diego and I don't know, there was some two 18 year olds that were talking and I ended up asking them like, are you guys having a podcast in the Front row, because everyone can hear you. And then I don't. I don't want to say, but they accused me of something, like, wild. And I was like, that's not what I was saying. And it was like, such an awkward. So I was like, okay, you know, what's your name? You know, and like, the tension's there because I don't know a way out. And the audience is waiting.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:49:37]:
And then finally, I think I asked him, oh, do you ever go to Orange county where I live? And he's like, no, I never do. And I was like, great, so I won't run into you. And then, boom. Everyone laughs. Back to the show crowd. If the crowd. People disrupting, find you funny, they'll stop. And so it was something that.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:49:54]:
It's like. It's just. I can't even explain it. It just comes out. And when I first started to do it by accident and I started to see, people laughed harder at that than my jokes, and people had a lot of respect. That's when I became more comfortable. And then sometimes I would specifically do sets and, you know, like, I see, like, a crowd. That's interesting.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:50:16]:
It's like, you know, it was all, like, white dudes and then, you know, one Hispanic fellow. And so I might, like, ask them and make jokes. So it is practice, but it. The reason that crowd work works is because it's impressive, because, you know, it's not scripted. You know, they came up with it off the top of their head.

Tim Newman [00:50:36]:
Yeah, yeah. Have you heard. Have you heard of. Hey, Lucy? I don't know her real name. She's a. She's Canadian, but she wears a red wigs, dresses like in the 20s.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:50:51]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Tim Newman [00:50:54]:
She's probably one of my favorites in terms of crowd work because her whole show is, for those don't know, is about magic and crowd work, and it's phenomenal. I mean, she's a master. She's hilarious. So watch. But give me one thing anxious speakers should stop doing immediately.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:51:19]:
Yes. Get out of your head. It's not about you. It's not like, don't think. Don't think what people are looking at. Just don't take it personally if someone's on their phone. Like, it doesn't matter. Okay? Like, if someone looks bored, maybe they're not.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:51:36]:
Maybe it doesn't matter. Just focus on your words and how important the speech is for you. Like, focus on the message. Just really be mindful about the things you can control, which is your words and your message. And also, if you mess up no one really cares. Most of the time people don't even notice until you're like, I messed up. And it's like, you know though, if you say that, it's not the end of the world, but just get out of your head and just focus on the thing that matters and that's your presentation. And also practice a lot.

Tim Newman [00:52:16]:
Practice a lot.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:52:17]:
Yeah.

Tim Newman [00:52:18]:
So I gave, I mentioned, I gave a five minute speech presentation last week and I've watched it back because I go back and I watch it back to learn and I've watched it back like five to ten times already and I saw something today at around noon where I said something that I didn't catch that I said, not even when I said it. And all the other times I watched that really messed my closing up. Thinking back about it, I didn't even realize it. So understand that you say a lot of times people don't know. They don't know. You don't even know sometimes, right?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:52:58]:
Oh, yeah.

Tim Newman [00:52:59]:
And it's get out of your head. I love that. So where can people find you to connect with you because you're doing some really good work. I love what you're doing, everything. You're so impressive. You've got an incredible future and business in front of you. So where can people connect with you to find out what you're doing?

Hufsa Ahmad [00:53:23]:
So my website is hafsaamad.com h u f s a a h m a d dot com. You can email me there, my business numbers there, you can text or call me, but don't be weird. And I have an Instagram HAFSA mod, I have a LinkedIn Hufsa mod and I have a YouTube. I have lots of plans for content. But right now I'm in this paralysis stage where I'm afraid of social media. But you know, I'm trying to get over that. You know, I still have remnants of the fear from before my fast. So hopefully by the time this episode's out, I'm going to be putting out content.

Tim Newman [00:54:05]:
Well, I hope so and thank you so much for taking some time to spend with the Speaking With Confidence community and sharing your story. Very, very powerful messages and I can't thank you enough for or being willing to share it.

Hufsa Ahmad [00:54:20]:
Yeah, thank you, Tim. Thank you everyone listening or watching. I really appreciate it and I hope to hear from you.

Tim Newman [00:54:27]:
All right, take care. We'll talk to you soon. Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcast.com to get your free eBook, the Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to overcome them. You can also register for the formula for public speaking course. Always remember, your voice has the power to change the world. Well, talk to you next time. Take care.